baby ray wrote:350 k go to naperville and 3.5m go to taste
every year and it keeps getting bigger and bigger
why would peole go back and pay good money if they did not like it

Nobody's saying they don't. Some people here said that personally, they didn't. That's all, Ray.

FWIW, it's been a number of years since I went, and I enjoyed myself. But I'm also not going to pretend that the scale of the event doesn't hurt the quality of the food, and I think you said as much yourself. Somebody can say they didn't like the ribs at Ribfest without it being a personal attack, and yeah, some of us do have a hard time enjoying ourselves when we know we can get much better elsewhere -- even from the same vendors. And personally, I don't care if there are 300 awards plastered to the front of the booth or if it's a first-timer who's barely cut his teeth. If the food's good, the food's good. If the food's weak, the food's weak. And I'd think you'd be willing to appreciate people who focus on the food rather than simply accepting whatever is given to them by whoever is the most popular, but apparently that's not the case. I'd also point out that McDonald's is more popular and sells more McRib sandwiches than all of the vendors at Ribfest combined. And I say this not to compare the 'cue at Ribfest to McDonald's, but simply to point out that popularity and sales do not equal quality.

baby ray wrote:350 k go to naperville and 3.5m go to taste
every year and it keeps getting bigger and bigger
why would peole go back and pay good money if they did not like it

There is no doubt that there is a mass market appeal to the Naperville Rib Fest (and Taste of Chicago for that matter). I suspect that is your target market as well. It's a match made in heaven. Just as places like Red Lobster and Olive Garden appeal to much of America, they don't resonate with the more discerning palettes here on LTH. That doesn't mean that those restaurant chains are not successful. It only means that their food is not what most of our posters would choose to eat. That's not a crime, it's just a matter of taste.

Head's Red BBQ wrote:
my only issue is you did the same thing by assuming the panel at Ribfest was unqualified..I can take this a step further and say Ive attended and helped out at Certified BBQ Judges classes and the only credentials to become one is 35 bucks for the class. That aint a whole lot and no one fails the course either
Qualifications of judges has always been a major source of contention and argument among BBQ competitors and enthusiast .

FWIW, Mayor Pradel and most of the officers of the Rotary Club (or whatever group sponsors the Ribfest) were in attendance and became KCBS certified BBQ judges back in Feb. 2004 at a class held by Mike and Theresa Lake that I was also in attendance.

Doesn't mean any of the "sponsors" has or doesnt have qualifications, I just thought it was interesting that the Mayor and the Rotary staff were at least "trying" to find out how to actually judge product similar to people judging a sanctioned event.

Also doesnt mean they judged more than their own event, so as to broaden their opinions of what "good" actually is.

I've taken to calling these discussions, in which I'm an admitted instigator from time to time, "Sacred Pig" threads. "Sacred Cow" just doesn't seem right, given that the only common ground for Chicago barbecue discussions seems to oink. Nothing seems to raise the fervor (or post count, or cholesterol) like 'cue.

Santander wrote:I've taken to calling these discussions, in which I'm an admitted instigator from time to time, "Sacred Pig" threads. "Sacred Cow" just doesn't seem right, given that the only common ground for Chicago barbecue discussions seems to oink. Nothing seems to raise the fervor (or post count, or cholesterol) like 'cue.

Even though BBQ is involved, this argument seems to have little to do with BBQ itself so much as it relates to someone's right to critique.

Being that culinary criticism is a big part of why this site exists (and is one of my main hobbies), I fall firmly in Dom's camp on this one.

Best,
Michael

Although I've never attended the Naperville Ribfest, I would imagine, just like very other Taste-type thing, that it has been geared more & more towards the mass market. That's not necessarily bad, it just is.

That's 180 degrees from the first few years of Mike Royko's Ribfest back in the 80's, of which I was a contestant. Held on Hutchison Field on the lakefront, you did your ribs your way, but you were also concerned with dressing up your space to draw attention.

It was my first exposure to homestyle South Side ribs, they were decidedly different-tasting & great, and we made a ton of friends. I think Charlie Robinson won the first contest.

Willkat98 wrote:

Head's Red BBQ wrote:
my only issue is you did the same thing by assuming the panel at Ribfest was unqualified..I can take this a step further and say Ive attended and helped out at Certified BBQ Judges classes and the only credentials to become one is 35 bucks for the class. That aint a whole lot and no one fails the course either
Qualifications of judges has always been a major source of contention and argument among BBQ competitors and enthusiast .

FWIW, Mayor Pradel and most of the officers of the Rotary Club (or whatever group sponsors the Ribfest) were in attendance and became KCBS certified BBQ judges back in Feb. 2004 at a class held by Mike and Theresa Lake that I was also in attendance.

Doesn't mean any of the "sponsors" has or doesnt have qualifications, I just thought it was interesting that the Mayor and the Rotary staff were at least "trying" to find out how to actually judge product similar to people judging a sanctioned event.

Also doesnt mean they judged more than their own event, so as to broaden their opinions of what "good" actually is.

I give them credit for at least attempting to find out some type of criteria for educated judging.
Im not quite sure why this fest was singled out..most non sanctioned ribfest type contests tends to use local "celebrity" type judging..I helped cook at the northcenter one a few times back when they still had an actual contest for non restaurants and it was pretty much the same as far as judges
we did ok in the comp so no complaints here

Head's Red BBQ wrote:I give them credit for at least attempting to find out some type of criteria for educated judging.

I'll go you one better and say that I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with novice and/or guest judges. Everybody loves good food and all types of events have their place. But yes, they're to be commended for making an effort to educate themselves.

Im not quite sure why this fest was singled out..most non sanctioned ribfest type contests tend sto use local "celebrity) type judging..I helped cook at the northcenter one a few times back when they still had an actual contest for non restaurants it and it was pretty much the same as far as judges

I think because this is the only contest we've discussed here where somebody suggested that the visitors shoudn't be so critical

Even though BBQ is involved, this argument seems to have little to do with BBQ itself so much as it relates to someone's right to critique.

I respectfully disagree. BBQ is the original beef (well, pork) here, with criticism the fuel on the low, cold fire. Such a discussion of public judging in these parts does not occur at this fever pitch but for BBQ being our (very publicly accessible) "thing."

Being that culinary criticism is a big part of why this site exists (and is one of my main hobbies), I fall firmly in Dom's camp on this one.

Taken as an independent statement, I agree.

baby ray wrote:its called naperville ribfest
not naperville food competiton
its about raising money for abused kids
not standing in judgement

In the context of LTH I think my review could be considered positive, as I think many LTHers would not have expected to find any "good ribs" at the fest and I found 2 after sampling half of the vendors. If I were reviewing the ribs for a local paper I would have talked about the fact that attendees would have the opportunity to sample lots of different versions of the BBQ art including traditional, low, slow, smoked meat; but I don't think that is the information that LTHers are looking for.

On a personal note, I spent about $80 there, and do not begrudge the expense.

The question of judging is moot since it seems the ribs turned in to the judges probably didn't much resemble what was offered to the public.


I would love to hear from BP and iahawk89 and see what their experience was like.

scottsol wrote:

baby ray wrote:its called naperville ribfest
not naperville food competiton
its about raising money for abused kids
not standing in judgement

The question of judging is moot since it seems the ribs turned in to the judges probably didn't much resemble what was offered to the public.


I would love to hear from BP and iahawk89 and see what their experience was like.

do you know this for a fact? ive cook enough of these to know that most cook for public and judges on the same cookers, etc...not trying to pick on you ..i just dont like statements psoted as fact based on the posters assumptions

Head's Red BBQ wrote:do you know this for a fact? ive cook enough of these to know that most cook for public and judges on the same cookers, etc...not trying to pick on you ..i just dont like statements psoted as fact based on the posters assumptions

Whether or not that statement was presumptuous, Ray said as much upthread:

scottsol wrote:Some vendors may have made changes in their process between Thursday (when I did my tasting) and the Saturday judging.

Is it possible a vendor used one procedure for the booth and a different one for the judging?

baby ray wrote:you bet they put more effort to the turn in ribs
we arrived at 3 am day of turn in after closing at1115 the night before
we skinned the ribs
we cooked the best 12 slabs we could find in our boxes
we cooked 6on a southern pride
6 on a back woods smoker
we gave them the tlc they need

but what does that have to do with anything

thats one cook I guess..we normally cook em all the same as I want to impress the buying public just as much as judges..now presentation for judges will be different..nice box with garnish and all
Ray seems to do ok his way ..who am I to tell him different?
My point was as you say having someone make blanket statements based on presumptions..

baby ray wrote:you bet THEY (my emphasis) put more effort to the turn in ribs

Ray said "they", not "we", indicating that this was normal for the vendors, not just for him. The only thing I presumed was that Ray was an expert in this matter. What other reasonable conclusion could I have made?

Rays statement was based on his actually cooking in the ribfest..I believe him
Yours was based on an assumption of yours..and the fact that you spent 80 bucks on what you thought was bad BBQ. If it was so bad I think I would have stopped at 20 bucks
But you have Rays statement to cover you so I wont argue it further.
I am on Rays side that the criticism gets a bit over the top especially by some whose only qualification is that they bought a plate of bbq and ate it .
bottom line you bashed quite a few professional cooks in your comments who do this as a business. If the food wasnt good thats fine you have all the right to say so but to make assumptions on WHY it was bad (too much wood..cooked in water..etc..) is purely your own speculation because again you were buying not cooking so you dont really know how the stuff was cooked. When it comes to someones livlihood you shouldnt come to ANY conclusions unless you have facts to back it up
bottom line i got more involved in this thread than I wanted to so I have to just let this go

scotsol,

I just read and re-read your posts, and I can't see how anyone could reasonably interpret them as anything but thoughtful, genuine opinions. One could certainly disagree with those opinions, but they don't come across to me as anything resembling a baseless bashing.

I appreciate you posting, and hope you continue to do so in the face of what seems like a difficult entry into the LTH foray.

Kennyz

how about a bbq cook off for bragging rights... show up and throw down... i know some on both sides would go for that

Head's Red BBQ,

Talk about presumptuous, you have neither read my posts carefully nor checked your facts.

I made no assumptions. I listed some possible reasons why the competition ribs might not be representative of what I had eaten and asked Ray to comment ie to point out where my ideas made sense and where they didn't. Anything that followed was based on what Ray said, not preconceived notions on my part.

I clearly stated that I didn't begrudge the money. I spent it in an effort to find good ribs, and I did, along with some not so good ones.

I never said someone used too much wood. I did say that the Australian 'cue (which got one of my better ratings) was over-smoked. To me, if what I taste is too smoky then the food has been over-smoked. The only alternative is if something like Liquid Smoke was used, and I would absolutely never accuse anyone of that without seeing it used. When I found ribs with a harsh smoke flavor, that's what I said, I didn't say anything like "too much Hickory and not enough Oak" because I wouldn't know that.

If I had simply THOUGHT that Fast Freddy's ribs tasted like they were boiled, that is what I would have said. But Freddy's had a sign in front of their booth extolling their boiling process. Here's a quote from their listing at ribfest.net:

At Ribfest, all vendors are required to purchase their ribs from the same purveyor here in Chicago...so the differentiating factor is the preparation, the cooking process and the sauce. Our method begins with our signature rib boil, (the way ribs were meant to be cooked), the boil penetrates the meat with flavor and moisture, all the while tenderizing the ribs until they nearly fall off the bone.

There is no doubt that there are posters on this forum that do make assumptions about how food was prepared based on what they tasted- and that is wrong and bothers me as much as anyone.

But if you had checked your facts and read carefully you would have seen that I am not one of them.

I had attended the Naperville Ribfest for most of the past years' Ribfests since 2000, however, due to disability issues, I was unable to actually go into Ribfest this year to try out all of the vendors' bbq, in order for me to give a fair comparison in my likeness to all of them. However, my mother still took me to Ribfest this year, which I sat in the car while she went to get food for me. She got bbq from Smokin' Joe's Hog Wild, a vendor in which I missed out on my weekendly visit to Smoque BBQ, in order to eat ribs from. That ought to tell you how much I love the bbq from that vendor. Otherwise, I would not have missed out on an opportunity to eat at Smoque BBQ, just to sit in the car to eat. That is based from my past experiences in which I have been to Ribfest. I have always thought that bbq restaurants do a better job at cooking bbq than Ribfest, until I tried Smokin' Joe's Hog Wild last year at Ribfest. Although, I keep the hope for more better bbq at Ribfest, also hoping that my disability improves somehow, so that I can give a proper tryout of the vendors once again.

Also, I believe that it takes more than some bbq "tests", in order to make proper bbq judges. Ribfest would be better judged by people that breathe, eat, and live bbq, yet aren't actually in sales of bbq products, in which there can be bias. Perhaps people from LTHForum ought to have been asked to be Ribfest judges. For if I had not read LTHForum and the advice of many here, I might not have discovered Smoque BBQ, which is my favorite bbq in Chicago.

Did you have anyone else's ribs?

scottsol wrote:Did you have anyone else's ribs?

In the past Ribfests, yes, but not at this year's Ribfest. So, I cannot properly judge everyone's bbq there this year, except from what I experienced there in the past. None of the rib vendors there, have impressed me, except for Smokin' Joe's Hog Wild. The exceptions of comparisons, however, are Famous Dave's, Sweet Baby Ray's, and Uncle Bub's, all of which I didn't try at Ribfest, because I have been to their restaurants. Out of the three, Baby Ray's is my favorite and Uncle Bub's is my least favorite. Uncle Bub's use to be very good, until the owner brought on business partners, who turned the business from being customer oriented, into being a profit driving, inconsistent mess of bbq. In the past dozen or so times I've been to Uncle Bub's, at least half of those experiences were negative, due to inconsistent quality of the bbq. It has been a while since I have been to Uncle Bub's, because one of the incompetent business partners, got into an arguement with my mother. It is unfortunate, since the place was really good before it became so greedy for money, rather than caring about the customers.

so.......who won?

The most important result is that the Exchange Club raised $800,000 for charity despite my "malicious" review.

Best ribs

First: Sweet Baby Ray's

Second: Porky-N-Beans

Third: Armadillo's

Best sauce

First: Smokin' Joe's Hog Wild Barbeque

Second: Sweet Baby Ray's

Third: Porky-N-Beans

Kid's Choice

Armadillo's


For some interesting tidbits about the fest, including an article by a last minute judge, go here: http://chordata.info/news/naperville+ribfest

But how was Ted Nugent???!!!

YAH SWEET BABY RAYS!!

Yay for Smokin' Joe's Hog Wild!!!

If only Smoque BBQ would incorporate Smokin' Joe's Hog Wlld's sauce, then I'd seriously have to find a way to live in one of those houses nearby to Smoque BBQ. I'm going to get some sauce from the Lake in the Hills' Rockin' Rotary Ribfest this weekend, and bring it with me to Smoque BBQ next weekend.

^ Wow, this was quite an exchange. I have no doubt that each of the rib vendors at this event works extremely hard and tries to put out a high quality product. I would imagine that 95% of the rib-eating public (and attendees) are more than pleased with the variety and quality of the BBQ. As mentioned upthread, this event is really targeted toward the mass market -- and most, if not all, of these folks probably will be happy.

The remaining 5% -- the true BBQ aficianados -- probably can find something to criticize about the quality of the BBQ, the preparation methods of certain vendors, or even the results of the quasi "competition" judged by locals (including, as mentioned, Mayor Pradel).

Personally, I've been around Naperville a long time, and what really has soured me on Ribfest is the fact that what once was a community-oriented festival -- where people could visit with their neighbors and get in and out of the parking lot pretty easily -- has morphed into a Taste-type event that draws huge crowds from all over the area (and has the requisite "hassles", such as remote parking with shuttles, etc.). Unfortunately, at this point I don't think there's any way that the city leaders are going to turn back the clock, but I found the old Ribfest (on Rotary Hill) more enjoyable, and suspect that you could've gotten better BBQ in those days as well (though I could be wrong).