It's The Great Veggieburger Famine of '08!

If only someone could figure out how to make their own veggie burger - I love that Kuma's (and others) are getting creative with the "real" burgers, but it's really not that hard to make a good veggie burger.

figmolly wrote:If only someone could figure out how to make their own veggie burger - I love that Kuma's (and others) are getting creative with the "real" burgers, but it's really not that hard to make a good veggie burger.

i agree. It ain't that hard

While being a confirmed meateater I tried the Veggie burger at Epic and it was good! nice and juicy.

figmolly wrote:If only someone could figure out how to make their own veggie burger - I love that Kuma's (and others) are getting creative with the "real" burgers, but it's really not that hard to make a good veggie burger.

Agreed. Especially hate spending $12 or so for my wife to eat a veggie burger at Kuma's when it is simply a store purchased GardenBurger. We can microwave those at home!

As a side, Goose Island has a pretty tasty housemade veggie burger.

Jamie

Leona's makes a great homemade veggie burger (so they shouldn't be "out"), for those that are into that sort of thing.

Jamieson22 wrote:Especially hate spending $12 or so for my wife to eat a veggie burger at Kuma's when it is simply a store purchased GardenBurger. We can microwave those at home!

One of my pet peeves. I especially hated when I would go to a restuarant that had specialty burgers and they would substitute a GardenBurger for an extra .50 cents. A horrible rip off.

No one seems to be drawing the obvious conclusion about why a restaurant which excels at making a wide variety of innovative, real-meat-based burgers might be charging people just as much or even more for a meatless one.

Mike G wrote:No one seems to be drawing the obvious conclusion about why a restaurant which excels at making a wide variety of innovative, real-meat-based burgers might be charging people just as much or even more for a meatless one.

I think what you're saying is that it's a strategy to discourage people from ordering a thing Kuma's doesn't excel at so as to incentivize them to order something they do excel at--but I guess it's not that obvious, or I'd be sure!

riddlemay wrote:

Mike G wrote:No one seems to be drawing the obvious conclusion about why a restaurant which excels at making a wide variety of innovative, real-meat-based burgers might be charging people just as much or even more for a meatless one.

I think what you're saying is that it's a strategy to discourage people from ordering a thing Kuma's doesn't excel at so as to incentivize them to order something they do excel at--but I guess it's not that obvious, or I'd be sure!

interesting way to look at it

Mike G wrote:No one seems to be drawing the obvious conclusion about why a restaurant which excels at making a wide variety of innovative, real-meat-based burgers might be charging people just as much or even more for a meatless one.

What Kuma's charges doesn't change the fact that working in a hospital has made my wife lose the taste for meat. If you are going to supply something you should charge a fair price.

If they wanted to make a statement, why even have veggie burgers?

Jamie

Jamieson22 wrote:

Mike G wrote:No one seems to be drawing the obvious conclusion about why a restaurant which excels at making a wide variety of innovative, real-meat-based burgers might be charging people just as much or even more for a meatless one.

What Kuma's charges doesn't change the fact that working in a hospital has made my wife lose the taste for meat. If you are going to supply something you should charge a fair price.

If they wanted to make a statement, why even have veggie burgers?

Jamie

One could easily turn this question around and ask 'why even go to Kuma's if you don't eat meat?' Maybe Kuma's provides the veggie burgers in order to accomodate people like your wife (who dine with their meat-eating acquaintances), so they don't have to go somewhere else to eat.

Maybe the price has to do with the burden of sourcing or stocking this item. Maybe those issues are a real p.i.t.a. for them. Maybe when someone orders one, Kuma's has to 'walk it' through the kitchen, which results in lost time. In any case, they don't need a reason to charge what they charge. IMO, a fair price is what the market will bear, especially because this is clearly a discretionary purchase.

If the price were truly outrageous, no one would buy them. Since they apparently continue to sell, the price seems like it might be about right.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:One could easily turn this question around and ask 'why even go to Kuma's if you don't eat meat?'

2 1/2 words: Mac N Cheese

stevez wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:One could easily turn this question around and ask 'why even go to Kuma's if you don't eat meat?'

2 1/2 words: Mac N Cheese

This was what I was wondering - they also have great salads - (OK, many have meat, but not all)...I have to admit, I don't get the "meatless" burger, even though I've made one. Other than falafel, there are so many other, better ways to go meatless....I can see it if you're at a friend's house for BBQ as strictly a convenience item, but otherwise isn't a grilled cheese or grilled veg or p&j just miles away better?

Oh, well - de gustibus non est disputandum, I guess..

Mhays wrote:
This was what I was wondering - they also have great salads - (OK, many have meat, but not all)...I have to admit, I don't get the "meatless" burger, even though I've made one. Other than falafel, there are so many other, better ways to go meatless....I can see it if you're at a friend's house for BBQ as strictly a convenience item, but otherwise isn't a grilled cheese or grilled veg or p&j just miles away better?

Oh, well - de gustibus non est disputandum, I guess..

What is not to get about a veggie patty? Sure there may be better things to eat, but what is wrong with variety? I eat meat, and while eating a hot dog I am sure a ribeye would be miles away better but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for the hot dog in my life.

Personally, I really do like veggie patties. Granted I am not a fan of the patties that are meant to taste like a burger, but I could see how someone on a vegetarian diet due to health reasons may appreciate them when they are not allowed to eat a ground beef burger. But I'd take a spicy black bean burger over many meat options anyday.

Jamie

stevez wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:One could easily turn this question around and ask 'why even go to Kuma's if you don't eat meat?'

2 1/2 words: Mac N Cheese

One more word:
Beer

Kuma's To Do List:

Offer tea and decaf
Offer non alcoholic beer
Cheaper-better veg burgers
Lower volume on Heavy Metal music
Quicker Service/Slower Service
Get rid of boxing machine/Bring back boxing machine
Child friendly art work on walls
Wider selection of wine (Reserve list)
Wider menu selection, tuna tartar, BBQ beef riblets, smoothies
Early bird specials to attract diverse age range
Valet parking
Buy 9 get 10th burger free
Loose unique identity, be all things to all people.
Franchise

Jamieson22 wrote:What is not to get about a veggie patty? Sure there may be better things to eat, but what is wrong with variety?

I used to hate veggie patties and faux meat products with a passion. What's the point of trying to replicate meat products with vegetables and legumes? I always thought there's so many great vegetarian dishes out there that don't pretend to be meat substitutes, that feature vegetables for their own merits, not as ersatz hamburgers, so why dress them up and play pretend?

But, gosh darn it, I've grown addicted to veggie patties. They've become my standard mid-day snack. I bought a box each of Boca and Gardenburgers at Costco this week, just for Jamieson's reasons: variety. They're a nice change of pace, and I wish I had a good recipe to make some for myself. The ones I've tried making just don't stick together well enough and have too soft of a texture.

My vegetarian friend loves Kuma's and always gets a veggie burger (sometimes mac and cheese also, but always a burger). What makes the burger for him are the toppings and the bun, (and while not home-made or original, the veggie pattie itself ain't bad, and is secondary for him anyway). But seriously, how many places that offer a veggie burger have all those other great things that you can put on it, not to mention the wonderful pretzel bun?

And Gary, you should add "no one else allowed in except us" to your list.

Binko wrote:I bought a box each of Boca and Gardenburgers at Costco this week, just for Jamieson's reasons: variety. They're a nice change of pace, and I wish I had a good recipe to make some for myself.

To duplicate what Gardenburger and Boca do, you'll need 30+ ingredients, many of which can be produced only in a laboratory while wearing safety goggles. But they're "all natural".

I guess what I really don't get is the veggie "burger" done burger-style, + bun - it just seems like an overwhelming collection of starchy substances which become an indistinguishable mass in the mouth, and the frozen patties seem particularly flabby starch, at that.

I understand vegetable croquettes, but I prefer to eat them on their own. Obviously, I've made and eaten veggie burgers, and even TSP products before, they're just not my preference.

If I wanted the Kuma's experience sans meat, I'd just order the sandwich without the burger - there's plenty going on without; IIRC both the Electric (not Mayhem) Wizard and the Judas Priest we had would have been fine without. Not that I'd do that....

Jamieson22 wrote:


Personally, I really do like veggie patties. Granted I am not a fan of the patties that are meant to taste like a burger, but I could see how someone on a vegetarian diet due to health reasons may appreciate them when they are not allowed to eat a ground beef burger. But I'd take a spicy black bean burger over many meat options anyday.

Jamie

i dont make veggie burgers because i go to kasia's polish deli (the corner of chicago ave. and hoyne) and buy fantastic ones. i can't really be sure what's in them, but i think they're so delicious because, like much polish food, there's nothing terribly healthy about them. they appear to be chopped veggies bound by a thick cream/crumb sauce, rather than heavy on lentils or other grains. i highly recommend them. justjoan

As a vegetarian who loves Kuma's, I have to chime in here. I am a huge fan of the Kuma's experience - the atmosphere, the beer, the staff - in addition to their excellent beer selection, great mac & cheese, and burger varieties. The first time I visited (about a year ago), I was told by a friend that Kuma's indeed did make their own veggie patties, and I was quite disappointed to be served a Gardenburger. I think I would have been much less disappointed had I not been misdirected, but the real point is that I keep returning to Kuma's for the veggie version of the Iron Maiden just as much as for the rest of the things I listed above - sure, it would be fantastic if they started to make a black bean burger like the one at Bandera/Houston's, but I find that I really don't mind a Gardenburger so much when everything that tops it and surrounds it is so fantastically well-made. The experience and the food is in another world to what you get at Bandera/Houston's.

Places like Kuma's aren't created to cater to my needs, so it's really nice to be able to go there with friends and eat my face off all the same. And I'm thinking of suggesting it to a meat-eating friend of mine as a dinner possibility tonight . . .

Chicago Style™ wrote:

Mhays wrote:Sorry, in my stupor I forgot that I'd also asked about this: the very friendly waitress said they get them from a new source, but that you can get the ones they used to use at Trader Joe's (though I've only seen the mini-pretzel-baguettes there) She mentioned they now source them from a different bakery...in Oak Park maybe?

Hmm, the only place out that way that makes a pretzel product is Reuter's Bakery on Grand Avenue, in the city north of Oak Park and just east of Harlem.

http://www.reutersbakery.com/breads.html

Could be... looks like they have pretzel rolls on their list of goods.

Jamieson22 wrote:

Mike G wrote:No one seems to be drawing the obvious conclusion about why a restaurant which excels at making a wide variety of innovative, real-meat-based burgers might be charging people just as much or even more for a meatless one.

What Kuma's charges doesn't change the fact that working in a hospital has made my wife lose the taste for meat. If you are going to supply something you should charge a fair price.

If they wanted to make a statement, why even have veggie burgers?

Jamie

It's a "fair price" if someone is willing to pay it.

Why have veggie burgers? To keep the one vegetarian in a group going out together from having complete veto power over where the rest of the group eats.

That's not the question - the question is why have pre-fab veggie burgers when you're already serving (IMHO far better) grilled eggplant on the Fu Manchu? Do they refuse to do a "virgin" Fu Manchu, or put the eggplant on other stuff?

riddlemay wrote:

Mike G wrote:No one seems to be drawing the obvious conclusion about why a restaurant which excels at making a wide variety of innovative, real-meat-based burgers might be charging people just as much or even more for a meatless one.

I think what you're saying is that it's a strategy to discourage people from ordering a thing Kuma's doesn't excel at so as to incentivize them to order something they do excel at--but I guess it's not that obvious, or I'd be sure!

That's part of it. But the reason for the incentive shift is the price of buying a small stock of gardenburgers versus buying ground beef in bulk. The Gardenburgers cost more on the menu because they cost more to the establishment.

Mhays wrote:That's not the question - the question is why have pre-fab veggie burgers when you're already serving (IMHO far better) grilled eggplant on the Fu Manchu? Do they refuse to do a "virgin" Fu Manchu, or put the eggplant on other stuff?

Actually the question was why would a place that specializes in meat burgers bother with a veggieburger? The same question could be asked, why would a place that specializes in meat burgers bother with an eggplant sandwich? And the answer in both cases is the same: so that carnivores don't have to overlook Kuma's just because there's a veg in the group.

LTH,

Kuma's has a small kitchen, when they are very busy, which is 99% of the time, they tend to politely refuse even simple changes to the menu as written. Kuma's carries one of my favorite hot dogs, natural casing 1/4-lb Vienna for use one one of my favorite burgers, the Goblin Cock. A few months ago I asked for simply a grilled hot dog, to which the answer was no as it's not on the menu.

In the pre Check Please era, when Kuma's was a sleepy Metal bar serving outrageously good burgers, they were happy to make changes, I once devised a Donny and Marie loaded with every single spicy item available, but I am more than understanding that, like my good looks, that day has passed.

Frankly I seem more willing than some to enjoy a place for what it is, be it no tea, the occasional mediocre spare rib in trade for the often exceptional or even odd one-off idiosyncratic waiter.

Enjoy,
Gary 'love em for what they are, not what you want them to be' Wiviott

Drover wrote:

Chicago Style™ wrote:

Mhays wrote:Sorry, in my stupor I forgot that I'd also asked about this: the very friendly waitress said they get them from a new source, but that you can get the ones they used to use at Trader Joe's (though I've only seen the mini-pretzel-baguettes there) She mentioned they now source them from a different bakery...in Oak Park maybe?

Hmm, the only place out that way that makes a pretzel product is Reuter's Bakery on Grand Avenue, in the city north of Oak Park and just east of Harlem.

http://www.reutersbakery.com/breads.html

Could be... looks like they have pretzel rolls on their list of goods.

Reuter's is closed on Mondays. This has been a public service announcement.

P.S. Reuter's has one of the two best chocolate eclairs in Chicago, for my money, and they are in the top tier for best chocolate donuts, too.

Reuter's Bakery
7177 West Grand
Chicago, IL 60707
773-889-1414

Mhays wrote:Sorry, in my stupor I forgot that I'd also asked about this: the very friendly waitress said they get them from a new source, but that you can get the ones they used to use at Trader Joe's (though I've only seen the mini-pretzel-baguettes there) She mentioned they now source them from a different bakery...in Oak Park maybe?

la briola's pretzel rolls (mini baguettes, not hamburger buns) are sold at olivia's market in wicker park (on wabansia, just west of damen).