riddlemay wrote:

krm61965 wrote:i've been wanting to get to the kuma's for a while, and it's all been based on this site. i think buddyroadhouse is on to something. knowing his relationship with burt's place though, i can't help but laugh at the irony.

The irony escapes me. If you're so inclined, a little help in explaining it?

the fact that you have to follow so many rules in order to eat at burt's...

krm61965 wrote:

riddlemay wrote:

krm61965 wrote:i've been wanting to get to the kuma's for a while, and it's all been based on this site. i think buddyroadhouse is on to something. knowing his relationship with burt's place though, i can't help but laugh at the irony.

The irony escapes me. If you're so inclined, a little help in explaining it?

the fact that you have to follow so many rules in order to eat at burt's...

Believe it or not, the irony is not lost on me either. And just as I stated with Kuma's, although it pains me to admit it, Burt's is not for everybody. Each has it's quirks which have been heightened by their new found fame and popularity.

I'm sure that prior to Kuma's "Check Please" appearance, we would have had no trouble putting two table together in order to make one big one, seating our entire party. With added customers and more hectic business, the traffic flow changes, necessitating different "rules" that help make the servers' job easier, safer, and more efficient.

Similarly, at Burt's, prior to the Saveur/Time Out/GNR exposure, while we still encouraged calling in your order ahead of time, it was far less of an issue. Now it is a near necessity, just so we can make sure everyone gets seated and served in a comfortable manner (although, from what I've seen the few times I've been there this summer, and from what I've heard from others, things seem to be stabilizing a bit at Burt's).

Just as all of this is a result of the one man/one oven situation at Burt's, I got a look at the tiny kitchen at Kuma's, and can tell you that they are in no way set up to do mass production of burgers or anything else. And, like at Burt's, that is what makes the food special at Kuma's. In fact, if I understood correctly, the small grill space, more than anything else, is the reason for not wanting to put tables together: According to the manager that evening, the grill cannot accommodate more than six burgers at a time. Therefore, they avoid tables of more than six people so that everyone's food in any given party will arrive simultaneously.

Finally, to reiterate what I tried to clarify after my initial post on the subject, in no way do I fault Kuma's for their rules. However, with the circumstances we were confronted with the night of our visit, Kuma's was not the right place for our group, and may not be the right place for other groups who are similarly inclined.

If you are willing to live with conversation killing volume on the music and a reluctance to allow large parties to sit at one table, then Kuma's is your place. The food is very good, albeit a bit pricey, and if the aforementioned conditions don't bother you then by all means, pay them a visit.

Buddy

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:Finally, to reiterate what I tried to clarify after my initial post on the subject, in no way do I fault Kuma's for their rules. However, with the circumstances we were confronted with the night of our visit, Kuma's was not the right place for our group, and may not be the right place for other groups who are similarly inclined.

This is all true, admirably dispassionate, and reasonable. But it's also the case that your waitress could have handled the situation and herself a lot better. Even given that one of the members of your party was a bit of a piece of work in himself.

Sounds like you had a crummy waitress combined with some annoying dinner/drinking companions.

Mr. Maki and I went there this past Saturday for the first time, along with another couple who had been there several times before. We finished up at Ginza Fest in time to get to Kuma's by 5:30 or so. We knew that if we came back later, we'd have to wait forever to even get a table, so we decided to go for it. It was about 95% full inside and completely full outside. We decided not to wait for a table outside to open up, and ate inside.

There was a table of at least a dozen people at the back of the restaurant, so we were the unfortunate victims of having a group like Buddy's there at the same time. Not only that, we shared their waitress. She was very nice, and explained apologetically that she may have overextended herself by taking the big table in addition to the 4 regular-sized tables she had. We were okay with having a leisurely dinner, as we ate a lot of teriyaki chicken, udon and Pocky at Ginza Fest only a few hours before. We ordered drinks (I had the Pyramid Apricot Ale, Mr. Maki had the Blackthorn Dry Cider, and I don't remember what our friends ordered) and after much debate between whether to split the pork fries or a mac & cheese as an appetizer/side dish, we decided to go with the mac & cheese, with prosciutto and caramelized onions added in.

After we had been there 35 minutes or so, they started bringing out dishes for the big group behind us and there was a delay between them, which caused some grumbling that we overheard. Eventually they got all the dishes out for them, but meanwhile, we had been there nearly an hour were still waiting for the mac & cheese. About 15 minutes later, the mac & cheese did appear and it was heavenly. The sauce was gooey, there was the perfect amount of breadcrumbs. I would have liked more onions, but other than that, it was perfect- we were scraping the cheese sauce out of the empty dish by the end of it.

By the time we finished our mac & cheese, the large table had left, and tension in the place seemed to ease. It was still another 45 minutes before our burger came out. Since we were semi-full when we came in, each couple split a burger, then quartered it so each of us could taste both. Mr. Maki and I split a Kuma Burger; our friends split a Yob burger. On a side note, the waitress didn't seem at all annoyed about us splitting stuff- I think it was probably a relief for her to have a couple less dishes to bring out. While I enjoyed being able to taste both burgers, I think only getting a quarter of each didn't allow enough to really get a satisfying taste of either. I only had about three bites of each one. Next time, I'll go on an empty stomach and get my own.

I guess the fact that it took so long was annoying, but I think it's just something you have to know to expect going in there, and I think the food is worth it. It's sort of the same situation at Paradise Pup- space is limited and they demand a high level of quality that takes time. If you don't like it, go to Burger King.

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:I'm sure that prior to Kuma's "Check Please" appearance, we would have had no trouble putting two table together in order to make one big one, seating our entire party.

This is not necessarily accurate, I've been coming to Kuma's for quite some time prior to their appearance on Check Please, and putting tables together was always a no-no.

It's kind of a bummer that this has become the "I had a crummy experience at a totally packed Kuma's" thread, when ultimately, this thread is one of the main reasons it got all that subsequent media attention and total packing.

I went there fairly early on a Tuesday not long ago and it was borderline uncomfortable. I think Kuma's is a victim of its well-deserved success, and if you're going to be bothered by any of the inevitable aspects of that experience, I suggest going elsewhere, or going at a really off time, like 4 pm.

Likewise for Burt's on that, too....

Mike G wrote:It's kind of a bummer that this has become the "I had a crummy experience at a totally packed Kuma's" thread, when ultimately, this thread is one of the main reasons it got all that subsequent media attention and total packing.

I went there fairly early on a Tuesday not long ago and it was borderline uncomfortable. I think Kuma's is a victim of its well-deserved success, and if you're going to be bothered by any of the inevitable aspects of that experience, I suggest going elsewhere, or going at a really off time, like 4 pm.

Likewise for Burt's on that, too....

I agree, on all points. By 6:30/7:00, there was a big group of people up at the front of Kuma's waiting to be seated.

Mike G wrote:It's kind of a bummer that this has become the "I had a crummy experience at a totally packed Kuma's" thread...

Absolutely. And like any small business which experiences success, the owners need to adapt and implement new efficiencies to meet rising demand (sorry for the business jargon, but I've been spouting this crap all morning). They've done that, but there's no making everyone happy. It makes me wonder what's in store for all those standard bearers of the slow food movement, who take pride in making a few, select artisanal products with exacting precision and attention to detail. Great Lake Pizza in Andersonville comes to mind, and the wait time there has doubled from 20 to 40 minutes for a pie. Unlike Kuma's however, their space is miniscule, and tempers are beginning to fray. Will Kuma's and Great Lake survive in the long run? I can't be certain, but why don't you come see me sometime? I'll probably be waiting at the three-deep bar in Hopleaf amidst the swilling crowd being deftly ignored by all types of servers.

Unlike Kuma's however, their space is miniscule

The space that matters in terms of cranking the food out at Kuma's is pretty minuscule, and that's not likely to change.

By the way, I've been back to Hopleaf since my infamous Hopleaf incident, but I zipped right past the bar and headed for the restaurant. I had good service, good mussels, and a great Belgian trippel (name, alas, forgotten).

titus wong wrote:

Mike G wrote:It's kind of a bummer that this has become the "I had a crummy experience at a totally packed Kuma's" thread...

Absolutely.

Well, for whatever it's worth, that hasn't been my experience of this thread. I've seen two posters write about bad experiences, and a whole lot of posters (including me) either write about good experiences or reaffirm previous good experiences. And arguably, the two posts about bad experiences could be used by Kuma's (if it so chose) to learn from and become even better at what it does. Not that it needs to do that. But not that there'd be anything wrong with it doing that, either.

A wonderful accolade for Kuma's owner, Mike Cain, is in the Sun-Times from yesterday. From the article, '50 people who make Chicago a better place':

MIKE CAIN | Owner of popular bar gives back to community -- big time
The Chicago heart is more than skin deep.

Until a month or so ago, you had to have tattoos and piercings to work at Kuma's Corner, 2900 W. Belmont. The 50-seat restaurant and bar has become so popular for its monster hamburgers that owner Mike Cain is relaxing his code.

A bar-size chalkboard hangs along the west wall. Cain and managing partner Alex Posso post the recipient of a Friday night special on the board. After 6 p.m. on the last Friday of every month, the bar staff donate all of their tips and salary to a community charity. Cain doubles that amount.

Donations have gone to the Chicago Abused Women Coalition, the Paul Green School of Rock and a fund to pay medical expenses for injured Roller Derby star Tequila Mockingbird. Earlier this year, Kuma's Corner raised $8,700 to help pay bills for Mat Arluck, guitarist of the hardcore band Sweet Cobra, who is going through his second battle with cancer.

"We were starting to do well here," said Cain, a Melrose Park native. "And you know what? As long as we're doing well, we might as well give back to the community. It's important. It's karma. If you do something good for someone else it comes back to help you."

In Japanese, "kuma" means "bear." Kuma's has a bear of a heart.

^^^

Nice.

danimalarkey wrote:A wonderful accolade for Kuma's owner, Mike Cain, is in the Sun-Times from yesterday. From the article, '50 people who make Chicago a better place':

MIKE CAIN | Owner of popular bar gives back to community -- big time
The Chicago heart is more than skin deep.

Until a month or so ago, you had to have tattoos and piercings to work at Kuma's Corner, 2900 W. Belmont. The 50-seat restaurant and bar has become so popular for its monster hamburgers that owner Mike Cain is relaxing his code.

A bar-size chalkboard hangs along the west wall. Cain and managing partner Alex Posso post the recipient of a Friday night special on the board. After 6 p.m. on the last Friday of every month, the bar staff donate all of their tips and salary to a community charity. Cain doubles that amount.

Donations have gone to the Chicago Abused Women Coalition, the Paul Green School of Rock and a fund to pay medical expenses for injured Roller Derby star Tequila Mockingbird. Earlier this year, Kuma's Corner raised $8,700 to help pay bills for Mat Arluck, guitarist of the hardcore band Sweet Cobra, who is going through his second battle with cancer.

"We were starting to do well here," said Cain, a Melrose Park native. "And you know what? As long as we're doing well, we might as well give back to the community. It's important. It's karma. If you do something good for someone else it comes back to help you."

In Japanese, "kuma" means "bear." Kuma's has a bear of a heart.

I'm curious whether the first sentence of this article is true. Did Kuma's really have a hiring policy that required employees to have piercings and tattoos, or is the reporter exaggerating for effect? While such a policy is technically legal, some could argue that it implicitly discriminates against older applicants, who might be less likely to have tattoos and piercings. (Discriminating against older applicants would be illegal.) Interestingly, that policy would also discriminate against job applicants who are under the age of 18, since they legally cannot get a tattoo in the state of Illinois. However, I'm not aware of any laws that make it illegal to discriminate against younger employees.

Don't mean to get too off-topic, but I think the article raises interesting legal questions. Regardless, I'm glad to hear that hiring policy is no longer in effect!

chgoeditor wrote:I'm curious whether the first sentence of this article is true. Did Kuma's really have a hiring policy that required employees to have piercings and tattoos, or is the reporter exaggerating for effect?

Chgoeditor,

For the straight scoop I suggest calling Mike or Alex at Kuma's directly.
Kumas - 773.604.8769

Enjoy,
Gary

Chicagoeditor,

The Age Discrimination in Employment Act applies only to employers with more than 20 employees. It probably wouldn't apply to Kuma's.

Kenny

chgoeditor wrote: While such a policy is technically legal, some could argue that it implicitly discriminates against older applicants, who might be less likely to have tattoos and piercings. (Discriminating against older applicants would be illegal.)

Tell that to my late Uncle who had a giant battleship tattooed on his chest.

chgoeditor wrote:Interestingly, that policy would also discriminate against job applicants who are under the age of 18, since they legally cannot get a tattoo in the state of Illinois.

I assume that you have to be over 21 to work in a bar, so this is a moot point.

I have a feeling everyone's being way overliteral about the meaning of "you have to have a tattoo and piercings to work there."

Mike G wrote:I have a feeling everyone's being way overliteral about the meaning of "you have a tattoo and piercings to work there."

I did a poor job of making my point in my original post. Kuma's hiring policy, as stated by the owners in the quoted article, was not illegal (though an older non-pierced, non-tattooed applicant might argue that it is). But--legal or not--hiring based on appearances is a lousy hiring policy. Diversity in employment is good business. Like the article says, business is booming at Kuma's. And past posters in this thread have discussed their comfort level when eating at Kuma's because they're not part of the tattooed and pierced crowd. So hiring employees who have different appearances probably helps make non-pierced, non-tattooed customers feel more comfortable, which lead to more repeat business and more people who recommend Kuma's to their friends. The upshot...more success for the owners, which is a great thing.

Mike, I'm sure you're right. Would tattoos and piercings make you a better dishwasher? No, not at all.

Um, to get back to the food, we took Sparky to Kuma's last night at around 5pm and had a very nice meal with top-notch service (the waitress made Sparky feel really important by asking about Sparky's spy toy that he talked us into bringing, and listened to him talk about making Mac and Cheese)

However, it was a Monday, and the B-team was cooking - they were busy, but not slammed, and our burgers came out medium-rare, though I'd ordered rare ; neither was as sloppy/juicy as our last visit. This was a hiccup, we still quite enjoyed our meal, but it wasn't quite the same experience. Sparky had the quite excellent Mac and Cheese, adding bacon and sweet corn, I had the (no, not the Kooza) the Kaijo, (a mere shadow of the Electric Wizard, but still good) and the 'spouse had the very interesting Lair of the Minotaur, which he also thought was pretty good. We also ordered a house salad - the basil viniagrette is very nice and light, a good foil for the richness of the burgers (I was kind of wishing I had some on my burger.) Still worth the slightly high price, but not quite the "steal" we thought the burgers were the last time.

It was interesting to people-watch: on an early Monday evening, we were clearly in our element, lots of people with little kids, grandmas, people in polos and shorts, and the waitstaff was courteous to everyone.

Thanks all, for the posts! I've wanted to go here for awhile (look at all the stuff with bacon on it!) and suggested Pie Dude come along. Now I know that's a terrible idea - he hates lines and doesn't dig metal music, plus I can't stand going on a date when you can't hear your date talk! I'll wait until we're married for so long that such an atmosphere would be a blessing.
Thus, I'm taking myself to Kuma's for lunch one afternoon in the near future. And this time I won't dress like a girl scout on a camping trip, as I did at my very first death metal show. Live 'n' learn.

Pie Lady wrote:
Thus, I'm taking myself to Kuma's for lunch one afternoon in the near future. And this time I won't dress like a girl scout on a camping trip, as I did at my very first death metal show.

Pie Lady. If you want some company, pick a date and post about it on the events board. I'm sure there are folks who would be happy to join you...especially if you promise to wear the Girl Scout uni.

PS. The Metal wasn't piped outside, so if it's a nice evening, and you go early - the key word is EARLY on a weekday, Pie Dude will probably feel quite comfortable. There were no lines on Monday at 5:30.

However, if you set up a lunch event after Labor Day, when we're Sparky-free, we'll try to go, too!

stevez wrote:

Pie Lady wrote:
Thus, I'm taking myself to Kuma's for lunch one afternoon in the near future. And this time I won't dress like a girl scout on a camping trip, as I did at my very first death metal show.

Pie Lady. If you want some company, pick a date and post about it on the events board. I'm sure there are folks who would be happy to join you...especially if you promise to wear the Girl Scout uni.

Correction! It wasn't a uniform, I just looked like I belonged on a girl scout camping trip. I was the only one not wearing head-to-toe black. I don't know why I didn't think of that before I left the house.
A Kuma date. Not a bad idea. I can probably dig out my old Cadet sash from good ol' troop 512, then get it covered in beef juice.

Mhays wrote:However, if you set up a lunch event after Labor Day, when we're Sparky-free, we'll try to go, too!

All right folks, look for a post coming within a coupla weeks for Kuma's Nite (really, early-evening). Be Prepared! (hee hee!)

Mhays wrote:Um, to get back to the food, we took Sparky to Kuma's last night at around 5pm and had a very nice meal with top-notch service (the waitress made Sparky feel really important by asking about Sparky's spy toy that he talked us into bringing, and listened to him talk about making Mac and Cheese)

However, it was a Monday, and the B-team was cooking - they were busy, but not slammed, and our burgers came out medium-rare, though I'd ordered rare ; neither was as sloppy/juicy as our last visit. This was a hiccup, we still quite enjoyed our meal, but it wasn't quite the same experience. Sparky had the quite excellent Mac and Cheese, adding bacon and sweet corn, I had the (no, not the Kooza) the Kaijo, (a mere shadow of the Electric Wizard, but still good) and the 'spouse had the very interesting Lair of the Minotaur, which he also thought was pretty good. We also ordered a house salad - the basil viniagrette is very nice and light, a good foil for the richness of the burgers (I was kind of wishing I had some on my burger.) Still worth the slightly high price, but not quite the "steal" we thought the burgers were the last time.

It was interesting to people-watch: on an early Monday evening, we were clearly in our element, lots of people with little kids, grandmas, people in polos and shorts, and the waitstaff was courteous to everyone.

Mhays--

Then I saw you. I was sitting at the bar with my sister having dinner at that time, and I remember you coming in with the little boy and his toy.

I ordered my burger MR and it came more like M to MW. Funny, one of the line cooks is someone I went to culinary school with that I had not seen since.

NeroW wrote:

Mhays wrote:Um, to get back to the food, we took Sparky to Kuma's last night at around 5pm and had a very nice meal with top-notch service (the waitress made Sparky feel really important by asking about Sparky's spy toy that he talked us into bringing, and listened to him talk about making Mac and Cheese)

However, it was a Monday, and the B-team was cooking - they were busy, but not slammed, and our burgers came out medium-rare, though I'd ordered rare ; neither was as sloppy/juicy as our last visit. This was a hiccup, we still quite enjoyed our meal, but it wasn't quite the same experience. Sparky had the quite excellent Mac and Cheese, adding bacon and sweet corn, I had the (no, not the Kooza) the Kaijo, (a mere shadow of the Electric Wizard, but still good) and the 'spouse had the very interesting Lair of the Minotaur, which he also thought was pretty good. We also ordered a house salad - the basil viniagrette is very nice and light, a good foil for the richness of the burgers (I was kind of wishing I had some on my burger.) Still worth the slightly high price, but not quite the "steal" we thought the burgers were the last time.

It was interesting to people-watch: on an early Monday evening, we were clearly in our element, lots of people with little kids, grandmas, people in polos and shorts, and the waitstaff was courteous to everyone.

Mhays--

Then I saw you. I was sitting at the bar with my sister having dinner at that time, and I remember you coming in with the little boy and his toy.

I ordered my burger MR and it came more like M to MW. Funny, one of the line cooks is someone I went to culinary school with that I had not seen since.

And someone you graduated higher than apparently, too.

I love absolutely love Kuma's and recommend it often but in my 3 trips there for food (6 total burgers), only 1 of the 6 has arrived at the table cooked as ordered.

=R=

Does that mean more rare or more cooked? I usually get mine medium-rare. I'd be fine with medium, but rare, no way.

Pie Lady wrote:Does that mean more rare or more cooked? I usually get mine medium-rare. I'd be fine with medium, but rare, no way.

5/6 slightly or moderately overcooked, in my experience.

=R=

I've been to Kuma's several times but not recently, and I have but a simple question. Would anyone venture a guess as to how busy it gets on a Wednesday afternoon at around 5:30?

nshef wrote:I've been to Kuma's several times but not recently, and I have but a simple question. Would anyone venture a guess as to how busy it gets on a Wednesday afternoon at around 5:30?

I'd say you wouldn't have too difficult a time getting a table.

NeroW wrote:
Mhays--

Then I saw you. I was sitting at the bar with my sister having dinner at that time, and I remember you coming in with the little boy and his toy.

I ordered my burger MR and it came more like M to MW. Funny, one of the line cooks is someone I went to culinary school with that I had not seen since.

We really need to work on that LTH secret handsignal! Wish I'd known a fellow poster was there!