I'm pretty sure they don't check to make sure you have bad teeth before you eat there. It's just, you can eat it if you have bad teeth.

Actually Made-Rites are loose ground beef where as Russells Beef sandwich is chopped beef smothered in sweet sauce.

Who said they weren't? Maid-Rite is to a more solid beef patty as Russells Beef is to chewier barbecue.

Dictionary.com doesn't seem to have an entry for "fauxbeque"

Not to cold-smoke a dead horse, but a friend of mine got me thinking about three other styles of barbecue that may actually have stronger showings in Chicago than their regions of origin* due to meat quality and consistency, even if they're not strictly Chicago-style:

- barbacoa, Mexican pit-cooked beef or pork, of which cochinita pibil is sometimes considered a sub-style, or Spanish pit-cooked pig, at Sol de Mexico, Casa de Samuel, Xni-Pec, Fonda del Mar, La Quebrada, Mercat a la Planxa

- char siu, Cantonese-style shoulder, loin, or belly-cut pork in a paste or rub with hoisin and fivespice, so fantastic at Seven Treasures, Sun Wah, Shui Wah, Great Wall, Fabulous Noodles (Lisle)

- gogi gui, Korean barbecue, particularly beef galbi and bulgogi, pork dweji bulgogi, and samgyeopsal (pork belly), seasoned to perfection at San Soo Gap San and Hae Woon Dae among others, but with some potential end user operator-error thrown in to the mix.

I would stack Chicago's entries in each of these categories against any I've tried in other major American cities. While they're not Chicago-style per se, the Chicago tradition of 'butcher to the world,' immigrant entrepreneurship, and high standards makes these top barbecue considerations, which are consumed by some communities in even potentially greater proportion to American barbecue. One could make a case for Pakistani or Persian barbecue here along the same lines.

*which is not to suggest that other styles of barbecue, or any other cuisines, are necessarily better here than at their geograhpic roots, though we do have some unique and very delicious versions and amalgamations

My father who grew up in Greece instead of Texas or Memphis used to serve baked baby back ribs with a thin sauce in his diner. He was very careful to refer to it on his menu as "Baked BBQ-Style Ribs." He served them because customers asked for them. He didn't have the equipment for a smoker, or else the guys from Jackson TN who ran his kitchen for most of the 35 years he was open would have gone to town. In the late 80s, he switched to rib tips as a way to keep prices low. They were baked as well but not sauced until served, and they sold like crazy - mostly to Southerners who realized he was trying to appeal to them as best he could given his situation. (His also was the first downtown restaurant to serve grits in the late 70s.)

I call the genre "Greek Ribs." It's what a bunch of 50s and 60s Chicago small restaurant owners could do given the equipment at hand. My parents still enjoy them at times. They wouldn't argue with Gary and claim it is real BBQ, but it's a style they happen to like at places such as the Patio. I don't mind them, as I eat enough small town food on travel. But I can't get them to drive into the city to try Honey One or Smoque.

Just like Puffs is a type of Kleenex to most Chicagoans, Greek Ribs is a type of BBQ.

Good family insight, tk; thanks. Miller's Pub still serves these "Greek Ribs" - baked, then sauced at the table. The Gallios brothers started making them there in the 50s. I put these in the overall Northern strand of Chicago barbecue, with influences brought down the St. Lawrence Seaway (Montreal / Buffalo / Detroit) and exchanged back and forth with Kansas City. I had a rack that was a dead ringer for the Miller's / Greek style at the Depot Diner on special a few months ago, by the way.

I had a chance to meet Dave Raymond today to talk about BBQ in general and the differences in the BBQ styles in the Chicago land area. I was very impressed not only with Dave's knowledge of BBQ but also how he was able to take his knowledge and experience to develop a successful catering and restaurant business as well as competing on the BBQ circuit.

Dave's nephew, Duce Raymond gave me a fascinating tour of their facilities and kitchen and was very willing to share his knowledge of the industry and of the cookers that they use to produced a consistent product. I was also able to try out their meats and sides and had a great lunch. Their meats were very juicy and tender with a nice smoke flavor that wasn't overpowering and presented nicely on a tray. What surprised me though were the sides. In many BBQ restaurants, the side dishes are an afterthought, something to have to provide variety. Sweet Baby Ray's makes a green chile mac and cheese that was excellent along with a very tasty Caribbean influenced beans and rice dish. Although i didn't try it, the gumbo looked good as well. I guess that this will be for my next trip.

If you're in the area, I would recommend stopping in at Sweet Baby Ray's to try some excellent BBQ and a chat with these great folks. Its nice to be around people who have such a strong passion for BBQ.

Rich

rich
thanks for your kind works
could you email me at raymond294@aol.com
thanks

A recent lunch at SBR's Wood Dale location did not impress me very much, I'm sorry to say. Meat-wise, I tried ribs, brisket, pulled pork and rib tips. This really was not bbq, by my definition. The meats all seemed nearly devoid of any smokiness and tasted like they'd been cooked in an oven. They were all also very dry and tasted liked they'd been reheated or held over for a long, long time. The best of the lot were the ribs, which tugged away appropriately from the bone but lacked any substantial flavor and (again) were very dry.

The sauce, while popular in many circles, was not my cup of tea. Just looking at it, I had the feeling that it would be way too overbearing for any meat. Tasting it confirm that. I wanted to moisten up some of the dry stuff I'd been served with the sauce but once it was on the meat, all I could taste was sauce. It cloyed.

Again, I'd never criticize or argue with anyone who liked this style of cooking but I personally don't consider it bbq and it definitely is not to my liking.

=R=

After having read this thread carefully during the past few days, I've decided to post in this thread, in order for me to post about my opinions regarding SBR. I ought to point out, that SBR is the main reason which led me to discovering LTHForum. A few years, I was searching the internet, in order to find a good bbq place in Chicago. I found a thread relating to SBR, which was posted on LTHForum. Ever since then, I've been reading LTHForum, as well as dining at SBR, on occasion. Also since then, LTHForum has presented other bbq establishments to me and to other readers of this site. I've dined at three other bbq places, due to the recommendations of LTHForum members. SmoqueBBQ, Smokin' T's, and Smokin' M's. SBR is quite a bit different from the other three bbq places which I have mentioned. The sauce definitely is "the boss" of the bbq at SBR, whereas, the smoke is "the boss" of the other three bbq places. Of course, the smoke level varies at all three of the bbq places. In my opinion, Smokin' M's bbq has the most distinct, strong smoke flavor, due to their aquarium-style smoker using hickory wood. SmoqueBBQ has a very distinct, sweet smoke flavor. Smokin T's, while the bbq is okay, ought to have a more distinct smoke flavor.

SBR smokes bbq as well. However, either the bbq isn't smoked enough for the bbq's smoke to be distinct enough, or the sauce overpowers the bbq. Either way, I still like the bbq at SBR. It still is very good bbq in it's own way. It has a combination of all of the qualities of different bbq "styles", even if the sauce is the strong point. SBR isn't "typical" Chicago-style bbq in the sense of "meat jello". SBR's bbq is cooked the proper way (in a smoker), also using a much better sauce on the bbq, compared to most of the so-called "bbq" places in Chicago. I even prefer the sauce at SBR, compared to the sauce at my favorite bbq place, SmoqueBBQ. Of course, I don't use much sauce at SmoqueBBQ, if any at all, due to the wonderful smoke flavor in the bbq. From reading LTHForum during the past few years, it seems to me that most of the members here who like bbq, prefer a bbq place that serves bbq which has a distinct smoke flavor to the bbq. In my opinion, the only quality which would improve the bbq at SBR, is to have a more distinct smoke flavor to the bbq. If done, SBR would be a more powerful force in bbq, in both Chicago, and on LTHForum. In the meantime, I'm glad that SBR is around and continues to improve the Chicago bbq scene.

BP wrote:After having read this thread carefully during the past few days, I've decided to post in this thread, in order for me to post about my opinions regarding SBR. I ought to point out, that SBR is the main reason which led me to discovering LTHForum.

As the person that started that first SBR thread here at LTH, I'm happy to see it brought you here and you continue to contribute. I tried SBR the first day they were open. I thought it was pretty good. But most of my BBQ exposure had been the meat jello, the BBQ choice of many in Chicago. Heck, SBR was the first Chicago place I'd been to where BBQ wasn't just ribs. Since I work in the area, I went there many times after that. Surprisingly my favorite at SBR was the chicken wings. When they first opened it was cheap, it was good, and the wings were huge. Now they are more expensive and smaller.

But LTH also exposed me to other BBQ places in the area, the same as you. I've not tried Smokin' T's or Smokin' M's. But I have tried Smouque and Honey 1. My preference is Honey 1. And as you mentioned, it's all about the smoke to me. But SBR is good for the area it's in. It's much better than the older Salt Creek BBQ. And that's really the only other I know of even remotely close. The new Elk Grove location is a totally different atmosphere. Considering the volume they send through that place, it's actually very good. It's not the best in Chicago, but it's not bad at all.

Bottom line for me, if you're in the area and have a taste for BBQ, SBR isn't a bad choice. But it's not a destination place.

My segment on Chicago-style BBQ is scheduled to run next Wednesday, June 18, on the 9-10AM and 8-9PM broadcasts of 848 on WBEZ, Chicago Public Radio (91.5FM); after the intial broadcast, it will be available as a podcast. In the segment, we'll hear from:

Dave Raymond
Charley Robinson
Willie Wagner
Barry Sorkin
Grace Delcano (swinedining)
Gary Wiviott (GWiv)
Mack Sevier
Robert Adams

This piece was inspired by the heated discussion on this board regarding Chicago-style BBQ and Sweet Baby Ray's.

David Hammond wrote:My segment on Chicago-style BBQ is scheduled to run next Wednesday, June 17,

Perhaps you have the dates crossed, what with today being Tuesday AND June 17?

for what its worth..I had the pleasure of meeting Dave Raymond at the Elk Grove BBQ competition this past Saturday. A very friendly and knowledgeable person who doesnt hesitate to take the time out and share his knowledge and experience in the commerical bbq biz with someone like myself who is just starting out in the sauce business.
I dont normally listen to NPR but will be tuning in for this

Kman wrote:

David Hammond wrote:My segment on Chicago-style BBQ is scheduled to run next Wednesday, June 17,

Perhaps you have the dates crossed, what with today being Tuesday AND June 17?

Just a day off. Corrected. Thanks. It's Wednesday, June 18,

David Hammond wrote:

Kman wrote:

David Hammond wrote:My segment on Chicago-style BBQ is scheduled to run next Wednesday, June 17,

Perhaps you have the dates crossed, what with today being Tuesday AND June 17?

Just a day off. Corrected. Thanks. It's Wednesday, June 18,

got it on now.do you know what part of the 9-10 slot its on? i hate to sit through this whole political broadcast thats on now ..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Head's Red BBQ wrote:got it on now.do you know what part of the 9-10 slot its on? i hate to sit through this whole political broadcast thats on now ..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

No, I don't know (though I suspect it's near the end). I'll post the link to my specific piece tomorrow when it's up on the site.

its on now..about .5 hrs in to the broadcast

Wife and I ate there this past weekend and overall found it a good experience.
She had the Brisquet with a side od baked beans and sweet potatoe fries. The brisquet was tender though the flavor was on the bland side and did not come with enough sauce. Even though the menu said on the side ours came with none. The beans were very good, with bits of beef and bacon in the mix, a nice comfort food feel. The sweet potatoe fries were damn good. Wish we had that sauce on the side to dip in.
I had the pulled pork. I thought it was great smoke flavor with plenty of sauce. The bun was great for keeping the mess contained and being soft at the same time. My sides were not the best though. I had the green chile mac and cheese. As much as I wanted it to work, it did not. Not sure what the goal is with this but, avoid, imho. I also had the Tchoupitoulas potatoe side. Which was ok, though we both thought it would go better with breakfast, which they actually serve. Overall, I thought it was good BBQ, especially for the burbs. I would definately get the pork again.

I will add my agreement to the positive reviews on this restaurant. If you like Sweet Baby Ray’s, you should sign up for the email list. I am a member. Every so often they send out coupons. The coupon on my last email was a free pulled pork sandwich with large soda. It was only good at the Wood Dale location.

I went there Monday night. Since one sandwich was not enough, I ordered another. So for about $10 I had a large soda, two pulled pork sandwiches and the baked beans. I thought the pork was very good and the beans were excellent.

D.

Awhile back I posted negative review of this place and wanted to set the record straight..
I had stopped at the Wood Dale location the firt week it opened (2005 i believe) and was less than impressed..
anyway it may have been an off night..growing pains or whatever..
Today I had the pleasure of eating there and sampling a few different menu items...everything was top notch BBQ in my book..had some really good ribs and brisket...
also got to try the Duce..which is Chef Duce's take on a Memphis favorite..pulled pork sandwich with grilled beef bologna added along with a dallop of coleslaw..even though i was stuffed i had to finish it..it was that good

Kudos to Dave Raymond and his chefs ( Duce and Elton) in bringing some good BBQ to the suburbs..Dave was there and took the time out to chat it up with the lunch customers..a very down to earth and all around good guy..

I wanted to echo the thoughts of a few of the posters above. My wife and I found this place a couple of years ago going to a party in Itasca. We stopped in the following week, and have been going back since. The Duce is my favorite, but I have tried most of the menu and have been happy with almost everything. I always get the green chile mac n' cheese, which I liked as a departure from the normal restaurant sides. While I wish the Wood Dale location was a bit larger, I enjoy it and stop there frequently. I also got my employees hooked, and they are now going there as well. Now they ask for the SBR truck to stop at our business at lunch time.

I also would like to acknowledge the staff there as well, very friendly and helpful. Elton keep doing a good job.

Hey I think you are the first one to like their green chili mac and cheese.

davecamaro1994 wrote:Hey I think you are the first one to like their green chili mac and cheese.

Actually I like it as well - it is a nice change of pace from the typical sides that you get at most BBQ restaurants. I also like the fact that Duce and Dave are willing to be somewhat adventurous with he sides that they have.

I can't remember if the menu had hot links advertised - if it did, that would really make my day.

no hot links that I saw..the gumbo is pretty damn good too
the Cubano sandwich is nice too

They did have hot links at least once. They offered them in some type of lunch special combo meal about 2 years. But I've never seen them as a regular item. I don't know if they ever returned as a special item.

Chicago style barbecue


Russell's was really smoking on all cylinders the other night...ok maybe it was just really foggy outside.

Da Beef wrote:
Chicago style barbecue

Great picture!

Dripping off the bone.............

Permission to use with proper attribution please.

I don't know if you've had Russell's in a while, G, but I doubt that bit of pork is sliding off. It's usually a dessicated remnant of flesh which has to be torn with the teeth from the bone, and I'd hazard that the top end there was rent from another rib with a lot of force, or manually separated for a good photograph.

Russell's is somehow a category unto itself, not at all jello-style, more like "baked until dead." The meat is pretty poor (and the ribs are exceptionally short and small), but I am intoxicated by the sauce, on which I was raised, and which I believe is actually tonkatsu sauce imported by an Asian diswasher c. 1934. Too bad Russell's is often skipped over in mentions of the oldest continuously operating restaurants.

G Wiv wrote:Great picture!

Dripping off the bone.............

Permission to use with proper attribution please.

absolutely.

Santander wrote:I don't know if you've had Russell's in a while, G, but I doubt that bit of pork is sliding off. It's usually a dessicated remnant of flesh which has to be torn with the teeth from the bone, and I'd hazard that the top end there was rent from another rib with a lot of force, or manually separated for a good photograph.

Russell's is somehow a category unto itself, not at all jello-style, more like "baked until dead." The meat is pretty poor (and the ribs are exceptionally short and small), but I am intoxicated by the sauce, on which I was raised, and which I believe is actually tonkatsu sauce imported by an Asian diswasher c. 1934. Too bad Russell's is often skipped over in mentions of the oldest continuously operating restaurants.

Your dead on about that. That rib is from Gale St. Inn, meant to note that and that is maybe the most accurate description of food from an eating establishment on this site. I was there the other night in between visits to Gene & Judes and Johnnie's and had to stop and get a slab fo ribs for my dad for xmas. he grew up on them and always took us there as kids usually after kiddie land. We had the ribs and I said what you said, the sauce takes it from gross to slightly better than a McRib sandwich and I love that part of it.

Thanks for the image notes! I was actually a bit covetous of you getting a rib that meaty from Russell's. It all makes sense now that I know the pics aren't connected (in that sense). Both are great shots.