What would you do?

I'm not sure if I should post this here or in "Something to Drink" but since it happened while dining out I figured this would be more appropriate.

While dining out at a fairly well known and regarded seafood restaurant I was looking over the Wine Specator "Best of Award of Excellence" award winning wnie list. It was quite impressive, and fairly priced.

My friend and I were going to order the tasting menu which was being offered and the wine matches just didn't seem to be a)what we were looking for, nor b) really worth the $55 charge.

So we decided to go with 2 half bottles, but prior to ordering the wine I figured I'd ask for the sommeliers thoughts.

Our waiter had explained to us when delivering the wine list that if we had any questions at all there was a "very experienced sommelier who could answer any questions". After asking to see the sommelier we waited.. About 10 minutes later (a bit long if you ask me but no biggie really) our waiter comes back and explains that the sommelier will be with us shortly. OK.

About another 10 minutes later the "Sommelier" appears, he's dressed as a bartender (all black with an apron) and he's so young looking that I jokingly ask "Are you even old enough to drink?". He took the joke in stride.

Anyway I'm not against taking wine advise from someone young who may very well have a wide knowledge. Heck I was into wine when I was that young too.

I digress. After a few pointed questions about certain half bottles of Champagne and Burgundy it became quite apparent that this was no sommelier. So I asked "Are you the sommelier?" He told me "No, I'm not a sommelier but I help out on weekends." Oh.

He then told me if I had any more questions about the wine he'd ask the chef for me.

The chef? Really? I understand that he may likely be very involved or even lead the wine program but on a busy Saturday night at 7:45 with a full house I doubt he'd have the time or inclination to answer some specific questions about partuicular wines from a iwne geek such as myself.

I said to that "sommelier" that questioning the chef wouldn't be neccesary.

I ordererd our half bottles and, through no ones fault but my own, was unhappy with one of the selections. It was a white burgundy that was far too old. I should have known better. I can't help but feel though that if there was a true sommelier to assist in my selection I would have been steered in a different direction.

What really cheesed me off most though was our waiter's very pointed and proud remarks about how experienced and knowledgeable their sommelier was. Then finding that there wasn't one even there.

I was perplexed about what to do or say, if anything.

I chose to keep quiet about the situation, but think now that perhaps I was wrong to do so.

So what would you have done?

I can't help but feel though that if there was a true sommelier to assist in my selection I would have been steered in a different direction.

Perhaps this is true if there was a well-trained sommelier there. My guess is that the restaurant doesn't have a well-trained sommelier and, as a result, you may not have been steered away from the wine.

There isn't much you can do, honestly. You should tell them that the wine wasn't to your liking, but I wouldn't necessarily expect any compensation (unless the wine was off, which it sounds like it wasn't). You could also ask the waiter to clarify if the sommelier was off that night, or something.

Darren72 wrote:
There isn't much you can do, honestly. You should tell them that the wine wasn't to your liking, but I wouldn't necessarily expect any compensation (unless the wine was off, which it sounds like it wasn't). You could also ask the waiter to clarify if the sommelier was off that night, or something.

Honestly I didn't and wouldn't have expected any sort of compesation for the wine. There was nothing wrong with the wine itself otherwise I'd have sent it back.

I thought of asking for the manager on our way out to tell him of the situation, but just didn't do it.

While I agree with the above, it does appear that the restaurant is advertising themselves in a way that would indicate they can help steer you in the right wine direction, and can't. Maybe they should be informed of your experience (maybe anonymously, so they don't get the impression you are in it for a freebie.) Wine Spectator has had its own issues, apparently (however you may feel about the legitimacy of the hoax, it does imply something about their lists.)

Mhays wrote:While I agree with the above, it does appear that the restaurant is advertising themselves in a way that would indicate they can help steer you in the right wine direction, and can't. Maybe they should be informed of your experience (maybe anonymously, so they don't get the impression you are in it for a freebie.) Wine Spectator has had its own issues, apparently (however you may feel about the legitimacy of the hoax, it does imply something about their lists.)

Yes, I've read about that, but this particular restaurant has carried this designation for quite some time and honestly I was impressed with the wine list. The wine service however, not so much.

I'm definatley not into it for a freebie.

Another thing I forgot, upon presenting the bottles to be opened the "sommelier" presented the bottle for inspection and after removing the corks simply slipped them into his pocket without presenting them for my inspection. I know this isn't a huge deal but somethign a sommelier would never do.

I think it is always a good idea to communicate your experiences to a restaurant. You might think something is minor, but the manager may want to know about it so he or she can correct it. (I once sent a letter to a high-end bar to say that their bartender made an Old fashioned incorrectly.)

I know this isn't a huge deal but somethign a sommelier would never do.

I recently heard NoMi's Fernando Beteta talk about he no longer presents the cork to guests. Below is he's quoted in Hotel F&B that he does not encourage guests to inspect the cork before they taste the wine.
“I’ve stopped presenting the cork on a silver plate and letting people touch or smell it," says Beteta. "It’s a crystal ball, making assumptions that the wine is bad based on the cork."

janeyb wrote:

I know this isn't a huge deal but somethign a sommelier would never do.

I recently heard NoMi's Fernando Beteta talk about he no longer presents the cork to guests. Below is he's quoted in Hotel F&B that he does not encourage guests to inspect the cork before they taste the wine.
“I’ve stopped presenting the cork on a silver plate and letting people touch or smell it," says Beteta. "It’s a crystal ball, making assumptions that the wine is bad based on the cork."

I would NEVER smell a cork. Um, it smells like cork.

However, while not needing it presented on a silver plate, I do like to inspect it. Signs of seepage completely through the cork can give you a clue that the wine may be flawed.

If this is the case he might as well blindfold the guest too so they can't inspect the color if the wine. I mean, looking at a wines color can lead to making assumptions about a wine as well. (I hope your sarcasm detectors are all going off!)

I wonder if he ever inspects a cork? If he does but prefers a guest not to that's pretty arrogant.

I think you should send a letter and I agree anonymous is the way to go. I would however specify the date you dined with them. The GM, the sommelier, and the owners (if they are interested in running a good restaurant) will want to know. It could be as simple as printing (with some small edits) your original post.

I'd definitely send a letter. There are a lot of red flags here and if you care about the restaurant and plan to return, it would be worth letting them know. If you don't care about the restaurant, I wouldn't bother with any correspondence. I agree that if sent, an anonymous letter would be the best approach because it will carry a lot more weight.

Be sure to include the information about the corks not being presented, as this is egregious, IMO. While you're right that it probably meant nothing, you're also right that cork inspection can reveal a lot about a given bottle, including whether what you're being served is what you actually ordered.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:I'd definitely send a letter. There are a lot of red flags here and if you care about the restaurant and plan to return, it would be worth letting them know. If you don't care about the restaurant, I wouldn't bother with any correspondence. I agree that if sent, an anonymous letter would be the best approach because it will carry a lot more weight.

Is the point of sending the letter anonymously so that it is taken seriously, rather than viewed as an attempt at free-bees? If so, you might consider giving your name and contact information but clearly saying that you are not asking for any compensation. There is value is leaving your name, I think. Suppose you want to contact them about another problem or about very good service. Your second communication will carry more weight if it isn't a another anonymous letter. Also, leaving your name gives the restaurant a way to respond.

There may be times when anonymity is best. I once drafted an anonymous letter to a chain restaurant in Ann Arbor, MI to complain about incredibly inappropriate behavior by an employee. Although I decided not to send the letter (I took Ron's advice about what to do if you don't care about the restaurant), I --perhaps irrationally -- feared that a disgruntled employee might create a website devoted to embarrassing darren72.

Darren72 wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:I'd definitely send a letter. There are a lot of red flags here and if you care about the restaurant and plan to return, it would be worth letting them know. If you don't care about the restaurant, I wouldn't bother with any correspondence. I agree that if sent, an anonymous letter would be the best approach because it will carry a lot more weight.

Is the point of sending the letter anonymously so that it is taken seriously, rather than viewed as an attempt at free-bees? If so, you might consider giving your name and contact information but clearly saying that you are not asking for any compensation. There is value is leaving your name, I think. Suppose you want to contact them about another problem or about very good service. Your second communication will carry more weight if it isn't a another anonymous letter. Also, leaving your name gives the restaurant a way to respond.

Yes. That is my reasoning, mainly because explaining that you expect nothing in return can often take more time than it's worth. Also I find that once you identify yourself, people feel like they need to do something for you, even if you insist otherwise. But you make good points as to why leaving your name wouldn't be a bad thing to do, either. Definitely a judgment call. The main thing is that if you care about the restaurant, you should politely and sincerely let them know about your negative experience.

=R=

JLenart wrote:What really cheesed me off most though was our waiter's very pointed and proud remarks about how experienced and knowledgeable their sommelier was. Then finding that there wasn't one even there.

I was perplexed about what to do or say, if anything.

I chose to keep quiet about the situation, but think now that perhaps I was wrong to do so.

So what would you have done?

I totally feel your frustration. I'm feeling it like I was there myself. But I don't think there was anything for you to do about it, at the restaurant.

There are, however, two responses you can make now.

The first is to never, ever go back there again.

The second is to tell us the name of the restaurant, so we can factor your experience into our decisions, too.

riddlemay wrote:

JLenart wrote:What really cheesed me off most though was our waiter's very pointed and proud remarks about how experienced and knowledgeable their sommelier was. Then finding that there wasn't one even there.

I was perplexed about what to do or say, if anything.

I chose to keep quiet about the situation, but think now that perhaps I was wrong to do so.

So what would you have done?

I totally feel your frustration. I'm feeling it like I was there myself. But I don't think there was anything for you to do about it, at the restaurant.

There are, however, two responses you can make now.

The first is to never, ever go back there again.

The second is to tell us the name of the restaurant, so we can factor your experience into our decisions, too.

You know, I thought a lot about revealing the name of the restaurant and decided that I would keep it quiet to avoid getting any biased responses and also to not sway anyone's choice to dine there or not.

If enough folks really want to know the name I'll post it.

Not sure if it's an important part of this discussion though.

I don't think the name of the restaurant is important. To answer your opening question, I would say that a signed letter to the restaurant has more weight than an anonymous letter. If I have a dissatisfying experience, I think it's important to give my name. Anonymity seems cowardly to me.

And that's my two cents.

-Mary

Just to make my case for naming the place (and it goes without saying, this is totally up to you): We have no problem naming names when we're recommending a place. We don't say, "I had the most fabulous meal last night at a restaurant I'm not going to tell you the name of." That would be ridiculous. The name of the restaurant is part of the news. It stands to reason that when we have a less happy experience to report, the name of the restaurant is equally newsworthy.

riddlemay wrote:Just to make my case for naming the place (and it goes without saying, this is totally up to you): We have no problem naming names when we're recommending a place. We don't say, "I had the most fabulous meal last night at a restaurant I'm not going to tell you the name of." That would be ridiculous. The name of the restaurant is part of the news. It stands to reason that when we have a less happy experience to report, the name of the restaurant is equally newsworthy.

I agree. I don't think your experience is much different from those that are discussed all of the time on lthforum.com. Your post seemed to indicate that the restaurant is generally regarded as being good. I like seafood and there's a good chance I'll end up at the restaurant sometime. It would be helpful to have a tip ahead of time about the wine service since it might steer me towards a safer choice.

The GP wrote:Anonymity seems cowardly to me.

Just to be clear, the suggestion, for which I tried to provide specific reasoning, was made solely in the belief that it would be more effective because it would obviously be agenda-free. But again, I think it's a judgment call. There are pro's and con's to both approaches, I think.

=R=

As a fellow wine geek, the restaurant offered notably unprofessional service but I wouldn't be looking for them to rectify it. You have every right to be disappointed and to be frustrated and irritated. I'd probably not go back, but that's just my own reaction.

That said, since you selected the wine and turned down the offer of the chef's input (who knows, he/she could be a major wine geek too--many are), and since the wine was not corked or damaged, its just one of those unfortunate incidents. But nothing really to do regarding making it 'right.'

The one thing I would do, though, is write a signed letter (where did this anonymous idea come from? I'd throw an anonymous letter in the trash if I were the owner) giving the owner feedback. If I were the owner, and this kind of thing went on, I'd want to know. I'd also want to make it up to you in some way. You could do them a favour by writing a letter.

DutchMuse wrote:The one thing I would do, though, is write a signed letter (where did this anonymous idea come from? I'd throw an anonymous letter in the trash if I were the owner) giving the owner feedback.

A wise business owner values sincerely-presented feedback, regardless of whether the source is known or not. In my years of running a business, thoughtful letters from anonymous sources have been carefully considered -- at times, more so than vitriolic missives from customers who also happen to sign their names. I can honestly say I've never thrown one of them away without reading it first. As long as I know the issue(s) at hand are legit -- and you always know when they are -- there is likely something to learn. A criticism from someone who seeks only to inform has a special sort of value.

In either case, JLenart, if you do contact the restaurant, I'll be very curious to learn about the outcome, and I hope you will update us.

=R=

You know, what really got me about this whole situation is not the lack of guidance I was given. I'm a big boy and know my way around a wine list. The thing that got me was the offer of the service of a very experienced sommelier (which I would have enjoyed) who just didn't exist in the restaurant that night.

It's like being offered Kobe beef and getting choice.

For those of you dying to know, the restaurant was Oceanique.

Just a thought: maybe the server honestly believed that the sommelier was in that evening and then discovered that either he wasn't or wouldn't be coming in until later. It strikes me as entirely conceivable that the server simply didn't know that the sommelier wasn't in (or in yet). While the best course of action in that circumstance would have been to inform you and then tell you he was going to send the bartender (or whatever else he planned to do in the circumstance), he screwed up.

Still, as Occam's razor tells us, the simplest explanation is best (and usually the right one). We could invent all kinds of plausible scenarios and explanations, but this one seems the simplest and likeliest to me. I'm a little troubled, frankly, at some of the posts that seem just a trifle eager to turn this into something more nefarious.

Gypsy,

Don't mistake me. I never thought that the waiter was being malicious. And if the sommelier hadn't arrived by 8:00 on Saturday night, he wasn't going to IMO.

No, I didn't take that message from your posts at all. And I agree, if he wasn't there by 8, he wasn't working that night. But isn't possible that the server simply didn't know that?

Knowing it was Oceanique, I think Mark Grosz would have been fully qualified to consult on the wine selection. I agree with Gypsy Boy, the server didn't realize the sommelier (who, I believe, is Mark's son) wasn't in, but he should have admitted that and told you he was sending over the bartender instead.