I was struck by the large quantity of water. Normally when I've rendered fat, I've started it in a little bit of water to prevent burning and then cooked it down to cracklings, the method you described upthread:

Mike G wrote:The instructions in Saveur were fairly simple-- cut it into cubes, and cook it over low heat for a couple of hours with a little water (1/4 cup per lb.). It was very silky-feeling as I cut it up-- clearly this was the good stuff. After about 3 hours I had a pot full of golden cracklings and about 2-3 cups of pale yellow oil (as well as a house that smelled like a taqueria). Strain it into a jar and freeze, and it's good for a year.

Thomas's method seems to call for immersing the fat in much more water and not letting the water boil off. Then you strain the resulting fat into even more water. No frying/cracklings.

FYI....the Bucktown Apple Pie Contest is in a few weeks....not sure, but you might be able to still enter

www.bucktownapplepiecontest.com

Marketplace on Oakton, or Oakton as I refer to it, had sour cherries this week in packages that just happened to be just the right amount for a pie--imagine that. Seeing them inspired me because I had grown up with cherry trees in the backyard and my mom used to make cherry pies. Mom, still bakes just not cherry pies because the trees got old and died.

I was a little worried about making my own crust. I've made tarts, but I haven't made a pie crust for a long time.

I decided to follow Cathy 2's recipe:

I may someday try the rendered leaf lard. I take a simple approach to the pie crust issue. My standard 9-inch double crust pie:

2 cups all purpose flour
1 teaspoon salt
2/3 cup Crisco or lard
5 Tablespoons chilled water (I drop some ice cubes in)

I mix the flour and salt together with my pastry cutter. I add the shortening to the flour, then use my pastry cutter to cut the shortening into the flour-salt mixture until it has the consistency of cornmeal. I used to use my food processor for this job but I have found it was just as convenient to do it by hand.

I add 3 tablespoons of water initially and begin to gently stir the water into the flour-salt-shortening mixture until it begins to ball up. I add 1-2 tablespoons more water to until it all pulls together into a ball. I do not overmix to avoid activating the gluten. We are making pie crust, not bread, not cake, it needs a very light touch.

Many people will then chill the dough, I do not. I proceed to rolling it out. My preference is for a thin crust because its function is to hold the contents together. I will use maybe 2/3 of the dough for the bottom crust and the remaining 1/3 for the top.

I use two sheets of wax paper longer than I need, lightly flour one side, then press the two together to transfer flour to the 2nd sheet. I use my hands to form a disk with the pie crust, then put it between the sheets of wax paper. I use my heaviest ball bearing rolling to roll out the dough, going in a different direction each time, until the crust is 1-2 inches beyond the pie plate inverted on the dough. Sometimes the wax paper wrinkles up, so I straighten it and flip the crust over. I realize many roll crusts out without the wax paper, however they usually end up using too much flour which gets into the crust and dries it out. I have more flexibility with wax paper and the dough remains more pliable without the extra flour.

To insert the pie crust into the pan, I begin by removing one layer of wax paper. I lie the crust, wax paper up, on the pie pan. Make any necessary adjustments, then peal off the other layed of wax paper. IF there are any accidental tears of the dough, I gently overlap them and press it together. I press the crust gently to the edges of the pan and let the edges overhang.

I will add my filling now, dot with filling with butter, then proceed to roll out the upper crust. I again use the double wax paper method, this time I will roll out a thinner crust than the bottom. I prefer the crust to be so thin I can see ever so slightly the color of the contents inside. This disk will be rolled out to be slightly smaller than the dough rolled out for the bottom crust. ONce you are satisfied, then remove one layer of wax paper. Just before applying the top crust to the pie, dip your finger in the ice water and dab water onto the rim of the filled pie crust, then arrange your top pie crust on top and remove the 2nd layer of crust. Press gently the top crust onto the moistened rim.

There are many methods of crimping a pie shell closed. My preference is to use my thumb on my left hand and thumb-index finger on my right to create a zig-zag (VVVVV) edge. It not only looks very nice, but it acts like a dam to keep juices from flowing over ... hopefully!

I make a number of steam hole cuts into the top layer as decoratively as possible. I will then apply a thin layer of milk to the crust, then sprinkle sugar. It not only gives the crust a nice color, but it improves the flavor as well.

Funny thing was I'm very literal when I read a recipe and somehow I missed:

I will use maybe 2/3 of the dough for the bottom crust and the remaining 1/3 for the top.

So, I thought "that's weird I guess I use the leftover base hanging over, rip it off, ball it up and roll it out for the top part." There really wasn't enough dough to make it to the edges all the way around, so the pie looked ridiculous with steam holes at random places along the edges--good thing there's no pictures.

The pie itself, however, has been amazing. I just used a standard recipe for cherry pie I got off Recipezaar (which claimed to be from someone's sister-in-law, but was the same as my mom's recipe from her battered 1950's Betty Crocker cookbook). The crust has made the difference. I don't know if it was the wax paper suggestion or what, but the crust is really moist. My nine-year-old said she'd give it five stars out of five. Thanks, Cathy. Now I have to see if I can find some rendered leaf lard.

I made a fantastic, really terrific apple pie yesterday. I would like to take all the credit for that, but in fact, I had big help from two ingredients which helped lift the pie into the stratosphere, and which I highly recommend checking out. They are:

Mutsu apples. I'm not sure I'd even heard of these before, but I bought a bag at Green City. They have a nice tart flavor, but even better, they stayed pretty firm through the cooking process, and people really liked having apple slices, not applesauce, in the pie.

Spice House apple pie spice. I was up in that neck of the woods so I planned to just pick up some better-than-supermarket cinnamon, but I saw this premixed bottle containing "sweet China cinnamon, Ceylon cinnamon, powdered cassia buds, East Indies nutmeg and mace." It's a great blend of top quality spices that just added a lot of depth and complexity to the pie.

One other thing I do, not sure if many others do or not, is squeeze a little lemon onto the apple as it's sliced and mixed with the brown sugar and sugar (about 3/4C for a deep 10" pie). Not so much you taste lemon, but it sharpens it up nicely.

Spice House
1941 Central Street
Evanston, IL 60201
847-328-3711
other locations here

Mike G wrote:IMutsu apples. I'm not sure I'd even heard of these before, but I bought a bag at Green City. They have a nice tart flavor, but even better, they stayed pretty firm through the cooking process, and people really liked having apple slices, not applesauce, in the pie.

Hell, yeah! We picked an early-ripening variety called Shizuka on the Whistle-stop tour. I made a frozen pie filling which I brought out for a family dinner recently: I added minimal seasonings, but at the last minute mixed in some cranberries, creating a cranberry-apple pie, heavy on the apples. Despite the punch of cranberries, the apples really stood out.

How good was it? Well, I got yelled at by one of the kids for sullying it with whipped cream.

As a matter of fact, just this morning I got a $15 bag at the last Evanston Farmer's Market to get backup pies in the freezer. I also love the texture: the slices hold together, but get all velvety. I also canned some "Brandy" apples - using Cointreau - which I hope to make into pies at a later date, we'll see how those turn out.

What type of pie dish yields the best crust? Does it vary much between glass, ceramic or aluminum? Thanks

Pucca wrote:What type of pie dish yields the best crust? Does it vary much between glass, ceramic or aluminum?

Cooks' Illustrated did a test, and I believe pyrex glass came out on top, and by a pretty wide margin. But I can't seem to find the equipment review to link to it...

HI,

In the 1980's, I clipped a recipe submitted by W. Clement Stone for his favorite Concord Grape pie. Considering the source, a billionaire insurance magnet with hired household help, I kept the recipe as an interesting relic. A pie I would never likely make as a typical servantless American cook. Further I considered the baskets of Concord Grapes at the grocery store as being rather pricey.

Maybe 15 years ago, I was visiting Villiard's Stand (RIP) on 120 and 83 in Grayslake to buy vegetables for canning. I overheard a customer collecting a lug of Concord Grapes for $20. I saw a shallow box weighing roughly 18-20 pounds filled with Concord Grapes, a relative deal compared to grocery store prices. I ordered a lug for the following week with intentions of making grape juice. I also looked up the pie recipe I had long thought of as an impossible achievement. I had already made grape jelly and jam earlier from greener Concord grapes with their natural pectin. These grapes were fully ripened and very juicy, perfect for pie and juice.

Despite claims of tedium processing Concord grapes, I found them easy and fun enough to engage the younger members of my family. To separate the pulp from the skins is a squeeze away.




Boiling the pulp causes the seeds to rise to the surface for easy scooping. If you gently press the pulp through a sieve (not a food mill), then you collect any lingering seeds.




Return the pulp to the pot and bring to a boil, then add the grape skins which change to brilliant colors before settling on Concord grape purple.



I use Rose Levy Beranbaum's Concord Grape Pie recipe from her Pie and Pastry Bible. To make a recipe, I portion 2 cups and 2 tablespoons (yes, our dear friend Rose is always precise) into pint ZipLoc freezer bags for future use.

For the filling mix together:

2 cups and 2 Tablespoons Concord grape pulp (as outlined above)
3/4 cup plus 2 Tablespoons sugar
2-1/2 Tablespoons cornstarch
1-1/2 tablespoons lemon juice

Pour into a pastry lined pie shell, dot with butter and apply a top piecrust. I do lattice and Rose cuts circles to suggest a bunch of grapes.

Place pie in a preheated 425 degree oven for 40 to 50 minutes.



An unexpected consequence of eating Concord grape pie is the temporary stained teeth one endures; an easy sacrifice for such a delicious pie.

Regards,

That looks delish! But if you return the skins to the grapes, is the peeling really necessary? I'd love to make this sans the peeling step.

I'll have to remember this for next year's concord crop. Looks good. Dare I suggest a scoop of peanut butter ice cream?

Pie Lady wrote:That looks delish! But if you return the skins to the grapes, is the peeling really necessary? I'd love to make this sans the peeling step.

You need to get the seed out. The skins encapsulate the pulp and the seed you need to get out. It is not peeling, it is merely squeezing between the fingers. I will admit to thinking it was a peeling process, too, until I finally did it.

Rose Levy Beranbaum suggested the peanut butter ice cream to accompany this pie, which I guess tasting is believing. I know I won't offer it.

Regards,

I finally got around to baking a couple of cherry pies using pitted, frozen sour cherries which I purchased when in Door County last summer. The pies were a huge hit with my friends.

For the crust, I used my usual all butter crust which includes butter, all purpose flour, water, red wine vinegar, sugar (very little) and kosher salt. While this crust is certainly not as tender and flaky as a crust incorporating cream cheese, lard or vegetable shortening, it was plenty flaky and tender and I love the flavor of an all butter crust.

For the pie filling, I used 1.5 lbs sour cherries thawed and drained, 1 cup reserved juice mixed with 3 T corn starch, then cooked until thick and mixed with 3/4 cups sugar, 1/8 t of salt, and a little more than 1/4 t of almond extract . . . pretty simple really. I probably could have used another teaspoon or so of cornstarch because the filling was a tad thinner than I would have liked, but not so much.

Before baking, I glazed with a mixture of 1 egg yolk mixed with 2.5 T heavy cream.

Here are the results:

In Webster's Dictionary, next to the definition of Cherry Pie -- these gorgeous photos might easily appear.

Wow. I'm a sucker for cherry pie and those just totally rock. I bet they were delicious.

s

Beautiful, beautiful pie...

Please don't let Mel get a hold of these photographs. Perfection as-is.

Thank you all for the kind comments. I have to say that I was very pleased with the results myself - looks and taste.

One ingredient I didn't mention above, but which was necessary in order to obtain what I think is the perfect color for the filling, is red food coloring - three drops to be exact - not that much really, but just enough to perk up the color of the cherries, some of which didn't have that vibrant color you want.

As for the lattice top crust, I just purchased a pastry wheel and it really improved the appearance of the crust. As for the recipe, I didn't use just one source . . . more of a combination of ideas from Gale Gand's Butter, Sugar Flour and Eggs, Rose Levy Beranbaum's Pie and Pastry Bible, and a crust recipe I settled upon which also combines the best features of a couple of crust recipes. But I'm now out of sour cherries and already looking forward to my next visit to Door County. I plan to pick up 10lbs of the frozen, pitted sour cherries. I have a cherry pitter, and it certainly makes pitting easier, but it's still a time consuming and dirty chore.

I've been in a pie mood lately, and this weekend I opted for peach. Same crust and glaze as with my cherry pies pictured above, but the filling mostly followed the Pie and Pastry Bible recipe. I thing it could have used a bit more almond . . . maybe some cardamom and/or nutmeg, but was quite good just the way it was.

Glazed and ready to bake:


Finished pie:

BR, you are like the poster child for the egg-wash glaze. Just beautiful.

Mhays wrote:BR, you are like the poster child for the egg-wash glaze. Just beautiful.

Thank you . . . appreciate the compliment. Now I'm really looking forward to fall and apple season (except for the colder weather).

Well, I suppose this is really a tart--blueberries and blackberries from Michigan with a streusel topping. This was the second go-round. First, I made two beautiful (to look at) pie/tarts--one blueberry pie with my first lattice top crust, and one like the tart pictured below. One little hitch--I used expired shortening. It was rancid and gave the pies a metallic aftertaste. The tart below used crust with nice, fresh shortening. And butter.

beth is pretty proud of her first ever pie (blueberry, using up 2008's michigan wild and oak park farmers market fruit)






It seems pretty certain that more pies are in our future.

gleam wrote:beth is pretty proud of her first ever pie (blueberry, using up 2008's michigan wild and oak park farmers market fruit)

. . .

It seems pretty certain that more pies are in our future.

I can see why she's proud . . . that looks great even if she had been baking pies for years. I've yet to enjoy my first blueberry pie of the season and those pictures are making me crave one.

I took a shot at the Bucktown Apple Pie contest this past weekend, and although I didn't make it out of the first round, I was pretty happy with my pies (pictured below).

I used an all butter pie crust, and mostly Northern Spy apples but also some Hardy Winesap (all from Nichols Farm). It's too bad that you really don't get a lot of feedback as to what was wrong, or what could have been better, about your pies. My two friends who tried it had conflicting opinions - one raved about it; the other thought it needed more spice. Myself, I would have preferred a tad more cinnamon and some allspice but I wanted the wonderful flavor of these two great apple varieties to shine through and I was a little nervous about overwhelming them with cinnamon and such . . . tough choice and opinions about the perfect apple pie are varied.

In any event, I love baking pies and enjoyed the opportunity.


My unbaked pie



My baked pie

I didn't bring my camera to the event to show the interior of the pie, but I was pleased with the texture of the crust and apples and the very minimal amount of liquid.

Holy &$*&, BR! Now I gotta make pie....

What, specifically, is it about those two varieties of apple that you like? I was really disappointed in my first pie of the season - though I followed the direction of the orchard owner and made a mixed-apple pie, it made clear that one's choice of apple is crucial: I had applesauce in a piecrust. We didn't even finish it. (I did make a lot of excellent apple butter and some very good applesauce) It looked OK (this is one I made for our school carnival.)



I've mentioned I like Mutsus (Senchus, Crispins) because they cook up velvety and yet the slices retain their texture, and they have a complex, sweet flavor balanced with some acidity. I used to use the standard Granny Smiths, but didn't like the results as well; I thought the flavor wasn't as good. I like Winesaps for eating out of hand (they're crunchy and a bit tart IIRC) but have no idea what they cook up like.

It was a pleasure putting a face to the screen name this weekend, BTW!

Mhays wrote:What, specifically, is it about those two varieties of apple that you like? I was really disappointed in my first pie of the season - though I followed the direction of the orchard owner and made a mixed-apple pie, it made clear that one's choice of apple is crucial: I had applesauce in a piecrust.

I like Northern Spy and Winesap apples for a couple of reasons: they both hold up very well during baking, and I like the tartness of Spy (Granny Smith work great too if you can find good ones - Nichols has them now . . . the ones sold at the grocery stores tend to be very inconsistent) . . . Winesap, like their name, have a certain floral, wine-like flavor and tartness that I appreciate. Mutsus are good too, but Spies and Winesaps are my favorites. I know a lot of people like Golden Delicious, and I think they're fine, but I like tartness.

It is possible to end up with overly mushy apples even if using good baking apples if the apples are getting up there in age. I always purchase enough apples so that I can taste a sliver of each apple to make sure it's firm and tart and not grainy. One apple to be cautious with is the Cortland - it's perfect for baking when young, but you really need to bake with them the instant they are ripe . . . let them age a bit and they turn to mush.

Mhays wrote:It was a pleasure putting a face to the screen name this weekend, BTW!

Nice seeing you too - a really wonderful evening. And by the way, from what I can see, that pie looks pretty damn good.

Here is a picture of the passionfruit meringue tart I made for the Pi Day at FIG event yesterday:




I've made it a few times now, it's not very difficult to make and I love the flavor of passionfruit. I adapted it from this recipe from Gourmet Magazine in 2005.

Note that the recipe as written in Gourmet results in a passionfruit curd which is way too sweet for me. So instead of the 2/3 cup of passionfruit puree as called for in the recipe, I use 1 1/4 cups. And instead of the 1 cup of sugar called for, I use 3/4 cup, less 1 tablespoon - trial and error, but as far as I'm concerned, no other adjustments are necessary . . . not even additional cornstarch (although I prefer a slightly thinner curd). I find that this produces a pretty tart curd, but I still might cut the sugar a little bit the next time I make it. Passionfruit is quite tart, but just not as tart as lemon so if you have a recipe for a lemon curd, just switch the juices/purees and cut the sugar down a bit. You can find frozen passionfruit puree in the freezer section of HarvesTime, and probably Latin American/Caribbean markets. I recommend straining it as there are always a few undesirable particles in the puree. And when you make the curd, it is very important to whisk fast and constantly the instant it begins to boil (the instant you see the bubbles form) - otherwise, it will be grainy.

In terms of whipping the egg whites, I always make sure that I've warmed the KitchenAid bowl and whisk in the oven a bit and brought the whites to room temperature (not so warm though that it cooks the whites). This helps increase the volume of the whites (as opposed to whipping cream, where you want the bowl, whisk and cream to be very cold).

I used a different crust recipe too. I thought it would be better with a sweet almond crust - sort of a pâte sucrée, with almonds. I thought it tasted pretty good but this sweet crust is still a bit of a work in progress for me. But the nice thing about using a sweet crust and the meringue is that they balance the tartness of the curd.

I've baked a number of apple pies lately and I'm working on the perfect formula. I find the double crust apple pie to be a difficult pie to perfect for several reasons: avoiding the dome effect (cutting into the crust only to find a big gap between the cooked apples and crust), finding the right ratio of spices and sweetness to the type of apples used (I used a mixture of Granny Smith and Northern Spy from Nichols Farm for this pie), getting the apples soft enough to easily cut into but without falling apart, and making sure that the bottom crust is not soggy and that the top crust is flaky.

So far, so good. To avoid the dome effect, I've settled upon cooking the apples first. I first mix the apples with white and light brown sugar and a little bit of lemon juice and let them sit for about an hour or so to let the juice accumulate. I then separate the juice, add in the butter, and cook until slightly reduced and caramelized. Then, I mix the reduced juice and apples and cook until softened, but not too much (make sure the temperature is not too high - patience is key). There should still be plenty of liquid in the apple mixture at this point.

After letting the apples and juice cool a little, I then add in the spices to taste. I don't add the spices earlier because I don't want them to burn. This method also has the advantage of allowing you to taste your filling before it goes into the pie crust. Thus, if you think the filling needs more sugar or more spices, you can add them in at this point.

Once the filling is to your liking, refrigerate it until ready to bake your pie. At this point, I add as much corn starch as is needed to ensure that the filling is not too liquidy. This just takes practice learning how much corn starch is needed for the amount of liquid you've accumulated. Put the filling in the pie and add the top crust. If you're using an all butter crust, it's a good idea to stick it in the freezer for 45 minutes or so at this point to ensure that your shaped crust holds its shape.

Before putting the pie in the oven, I like to brush the top crust with some heavy cream, and then dust with cinnamon sugar. If you're using a whole top crust, and not a lattice crust, don't use an egg wash because this will prevent the crust from coming out flaky (egg acts as a seal and prevents breathing). Then, cut your holes in the top crust to allow steam to escape, and bake your pie in the preheated oven.

I always start off baking a fruit pie on the bottom of the oven on a pizza stone to ensure that the crust does not become soggy. But to make sure it doesn't burn or get too crisp, I then move the pie to the middle of the oven about 30 minutes into baking. If the edges are getting to brown, cover with aluminum foil. I find the best method for applying foil is to place a large sheet of aluminum foil over a clean pie tin, and then cut out the middle. You can then put your sheet of aluminum foil atop the baking pie such that it covers only the edges and not the middle.

Here are some pictures of my latest effort applying these ideas. I thought it came out just right.



liquid reducing



apples cooking with reduced liquid



baked pie



sliced and ready for eating


It's taken me quite some time to find a method which results in a double-crust apple pie to my liking, but I think I've finally succeeded.

Hi,

James Beard Foundation's website has an article on five regional pies. The pie that has me totally intrigued is a New England Boiled Cider pie.

Concord Grape pie is included as a Pacific Northwest favorite. While I have always considered it from New England, I am happy it is even mentioned.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

James Beard Foundation's website has an article on five regional pies. The pie that has me totally intrigued is a New England Boiled Cider pie.

Concord Grape pie is included as a Pacific Northwest favorite. While I have always considered it from New England, I am happy it is even mentioned.

Regards,

Cathy, I agree that the cider pie sounds very interesting, and probably the most interesting of the ones listed. I hope you plan on making it soon and reporting back (mostly, I'd like to taste yours when you make it). I really enjoyed yours and gastro gnome's concord grape pies at the Pi Day event and I'd like to give that a shot one day. I've also never had a shaker lemon pie and it sounds very interesting with the paper thin slices of lemon in the pie.

Can I bake a chocolate cream meringue pie on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, chill it, and add meringue Friday? Or would doing this make the filling break down? Would it work if I used a torch instead?