For the gravy, there is nothing better than gravy made from pan drippings. Why not roast a chicken in advance of the day, then make gravy from it and freeze?

Now why didn't I think of that? I already have a chicken ready to roast this week (I'm making the Zuni cafe roast chicken with bread salad recipe).
Great idea!
Thanks

I am hosting Thanksgiving this year (it is also my birthday, so I guess I'm throwing my own party). My mother has offered to make the turkey. She will stuff the bird, and also make additional stuffing. My cousin will bring an apple tart, and I will take care of the rest.

We are starting with nuts, assorted cheeses and crackers before the dinner.

On the table will be the following:
Mom's turkey and stuffing. We only eat natural gravy, defatted, from the bird. There always seems to be enough.
roasted brussell sprouts and carrots
sweet potato casserole (recipe from an old Bon Appetit magazine)
green bean casserole
corn bread and/or rolls (we called them burn 'n serve rolls as kids because my mom always forgot to remove them from the oven until they were scorched)
homemade whole berry cranberry sauce and a can of sauce for my dad, who says it's not Thanksgiving unless he sees the can rings on the corners of the cranberry sauce
possibly a rasberry jello mold

Dessert will be:
Pumpkin pie (from a fresh pumpkin)
Apple tart (from the cousin)
Mini pecan tarts
Vanilla ice cream

That should do it!

Suzy

GF and I are also hosting, for the first time, dinner for six people (besides us) and the first time our parents will meet. We spent last Saturday at IKEA beefing up our collection of matching china. We're trying to look like we know what we're doing, here.

This thread is a great excuse for me to take stock of our menu.

- Turkey's a no-brainer: my family's having our traditional Harrington's smoked bird.



Normally, we've just gotten a breast, but with the extended guest list and the momentousness of the occasion, we're going for the spectacle of an entire turkey. Looks like a football and tastes like ham.

- Either the olive oil and garlic or the creamy mashed potatoes from America's Test Kitchen.
- Some kind of green beans - would prefer to avoid a casserole. Maybe in browned butter a la missvjw.
- Some kind of green salad per GF.
- Stuffing.
- CI drop biscuits.
- gravy (probably from a jar, yikes)
- cranberry sauce
- creamy mustard sauce
- apple pie, since no one seems to really care about pumpkin pie. I'd like pecan, but I have to check to see if I'm the only one who'll eat it.

It can't be Thanksgiving without the kraut and kielbasa!

Seems like my T-Day menu is set (along with half my Christmas menu) and it is similar to many of yours but I'm posting it anyway:
*Appetizer "buffet": crackers with that horrible, yet addictive and traditional canned deviled ham, nut assortment of some kind, crackers with leftover bacon jam

*Main Event: ridiculously oversized turkey (16 pounds for 4 or some such nonsense; we love leftovers). I'll use last year's fresh herb and olive oil massage on the skin.
*Boxed stuffing (love it, can't help it)
*Canned cranberries (for the same reasons as sdritz's dad)
*Green beans & bacon (although this may change)
*Tzimmes
*Angel Biscuits (yeast biscuits that rise up big & fluffy)
*Corn Pudding (highlighted edit, how could I forget this??)
*I may use leftover gumbo gravy for the turkey but I can't decide. I made a gumbo recently that had a ton more juice than veggies & meat, so I strained it and froze it to pour over chicken one day.

*Dessert: sugar-free pumpkin pie for dad, regular for me & my boyfriend, and red velvet cupcakes with swirly orange/plain cream cheese frosting and autumn sprinkles.

And lots of booze when the night is over.

2 turkeys (one w/ stuffing, one w/ only aromatics inside)
broccoli casserole
sauteed green beans w/ red pepper strips
mashed potatoes and pan dripping gravy
Parker House rolls
sweet potato balls rolled in corn flake crumbs and baked
oven roasted carrots, onions, garlic and herbs
cranberry relish: 1 package cranberries, 1 large diced apple, 1 diced orange (peel and all); blend in food processor. Add 3/4 cup sugar and mix.
Paula Dean's pumpkin custard pie
chocolate and cream cheese brownies

We rarely vary this menu as everyone looks forward to the traditional meal each year.

I'm just going to admit ignorance. Do you just beat some cornstarch into the pan drippings to make gravy, or is there some other step?

Pie Lady wrote:I'm just going to admit ignorance. Do you just beat some cornstarch into the pan drippings to make gravy, or is there some other step?

I add some dry sherry to the pan drippings, and scrape up any browned bits, I then wisk in the flour or cornstarch, and add stock, the water from the giblets, & the water from the mashed potatoes to get the consistancy I like. I also add in any of the turkey, or roasts juice that has accumulated while the meat is resting

Pie Lady wrote:I'm just going to admit ignorance. Do you just beat some cornstarch into the pan drippings to make gravy, or is there some other step?

Gravy is a mystery to so many people - you're not alone, Pie Lady! You can make a gravy with cornstarch, but I personally don't like the texture - most Ameri-Chinese food is made with cornstarch-thickened gravies. If you do so, you need to make a slurry of cornstarch and a cold liquid (wine or stock) before you pour it into the drippings.

I prefer a flour-roux based gravy, which is really no different than a bechamel or veloute in principle, just a different kind of fat and liquid. Because this my main Thanksgiving pleasure, I cook my turkey in a stovetop-safe pan. After the turkey's removed and resting, I cook the drippings on the stove until all the liquids disappear into the fat: I make a roux of some of the fat and flour (I use Wondra to decrease the chances of lumps - flour bonding to liquids instead of fats is where you get lumpy gravy. I also remove most of the fat for a later use so as not to have a greasy gravy) I then add chicken or turkey stock (I've usually got some in the freezer, but you can use canned) and seasonings (add whatever you're flavoring your bird with and keep tasting until it's right) Sherry is a great idea, adds a nutty flavor, you can add a sparing amount of lemon juice or wine if you like a brighter gravy.

Proportions? Well, a traditional roux gravy usually has the proportion of equal parts of flour and fat to a larger amount of liquid - traditionally 1 tbsp each flour and fat for each cup of liquid will make about a cup of gravy. This is by no means gospel, so don't feel like you have to spend a lot of time measuring - and a too-thick gravy can be easily thinned by adding liquid.

You can make a few cups of good stock out of the neck, heart, and gizzard. I throw the wing tips in too. (from the turkey).

We do a potluck Thanksgiving. This year, I'm bringing two stuffings: the White Castle one; I made a half-batch with only 5 sliders last year just to see how people liked it; it was obliterated. I'm also making this stuffing from Saveur in lieu of my usual sausage-challah one. I'm debating adding meat to it since I'll have the White Castle one. I don't think we have any vegetarians coming, but most people like some options.

I'm also making a dessert, something pumpkin-y. That Everyday Food recipe mentioned earlier is in the running. Maybe a cheesecake, though.

Then, for our second meal of the night (!), I'm going to bring an appetizer I sampled at Trader Joe's- their pumpkin butter mixed with softened cream cheese with cinnamon-sugar pita chips to dip in it.

If you're looking for a riff on pumpkin pie, I recommend this. I made two 8X8 pans for a potluck, and it was devoured. Not to toot my horn, but the changes I made to the original recipe are substantive - I can't comment on the quality of the original.

Another thing I learned from this experiment is that kabocha squash works exceptionally well in desserts; better, I think, than pumpkin.

I see that the A&G is advertising "HO-KA" turkeys from a local farm. Has anyone tried these? I'm curious how much they cost. A couple of years ago we had a wonderful Bronze from Liberty farms, but I can't afford an $80 turkey this year!

We will be having our own Thanksgiving either the weekend before or after-- I have to cook my own turkey as I never get leftovers from the in-laws. Most importantly, I never get the turkey carcass. I also plan on getting a couple of turkeys from Costco, hacking them in half, vacuum sealing, and freezing them for half-roasts later in the year.

As a pumpkin pie alternative, I recommend the bourbon pumpkin tart with walnut streusel from Fine Cooking:
http://www.taunton.com/finecooking/reci ... ion=102332
It has a thinner layer of pumpkin custard than a traditional pie, with a crunchy topping. Also the crust has a bit of orange in it-- the combination is fabulous.

Cheers, Jen

JenM wrote:I see that the A&G is advertising "HO-KA" turkeys from a local farm. Has anyone tried these?

For some years The Wife was picking up Ho-Ka turkeys, and they were very good.

This year, we're going the turducken route.

JenM wrote:I see that the A&G is advertising "HO-KA" turkeys from a local farm. Has anyone tried these? I'm curious how much they cost.

At Schmeisser's, they're about 2.49 per pound.
7649 N. Milwaukee Ave., Niles, (847) 967-8995

I did a fresh Ho-Ka turkey last year, and it was one of the best I have ever done.

Like I mentioned up thread I am doing a 20+ Lb. Turducken I am buying from Cajun Connection this year. I cant' wait.

I saw a sign for the Ho-Ka Turkeys at Caputo's in Palatine. Since I'm not responsible for the turkey, I didn't pay attention to what the price was.

Years ago on Chowhound, I got into a debate with zim about what I perceived as the relative drabness of the Thanksgiving dinner. As I recall, my position was that Thanksgiving represented paradigmatic American chow: mostly wholesome, very mildly spiced, totally comforting (to an American-born person)… but overall kind of dull. I’m not actually arguing that position anymore, but I’m still not that crazy about the traditional food for this event. I like everything about the symbolism – the thankful recognition of the harvest plenty, the folklore of the Pilgrims and Indians sitting down together, the celebration of food and community.

I’m just not that crazy about the chow.

Turkey is okay, I guess, but there’s probably a reason why many of us eat it only a few times per year, and my guess is that many eat it just once per year (at least as a whole roasted bird). We’ve done the red bourbon, the Ho-Ka, etc., and I have high hopes for turducken; to make this fowl flavorful, well, it takes an effort. I suspect that, like opera, most people don’t really like turkey; they just eat it for reasons of ritual.

Sweet potatoes are fine. Given the choice, however, between these mushy orange tubers and any of the other firmer, flakier varieties, there’s no contest, for me. A baked Idaho, purple Peruvian, or a fingerling or two would be more to my liking, but eating the yam is traditional so I bite the bullet.

Pumpkin pie is more of the same orange mush and gives me no pleasure. This, I can’t eat. I can hardly even look at it.

Cranberries, for me, painful: just sharp, cold goo. For dessert, in a pie crust, with whipped cream and black coffee, that’s cool; with dinner, and especially with a meat as flat as turkey, well, I don’t get it. It’s not that I hate it; I just don’t get it. It overwhelms the meat. Maybe if I were Nordic I’d like jelly on my meat, but I’m not, so I don’t, much.

Still, Thanksgiving is one of my favorite holidays (more so, certainly, than Xmas or Easter, which are also excellent food days at our house but with a distracting religious overlay). We have loads of friends over, and I’m all for joining in grateful recognition for all the good things our planet offers up for us to eat.

One variation on the usual Thanksgiving spread, and something I do in an effort to make this day more palatable, is to serve a big antipasti table: pepperoni, lots of cheese, some pickled artichokes, half a dozen types of olives, plump shrimp, good bread, and other foods served not only in recognition of the great Italian explorer who brought this continent to the attention of my European forebears, but to so thrill my palate that the relatively neutral flavors that follow will be more acceptable.

Happy thanksgiving one and all.

David Hammond wrote: Turkey is okay, I guess, but there’s probably a reason why many of us eat it only a few times per year, and my guess is that many eat it just once per year (at least as a whole roasted bird). We’ve done the red bourbon, the Ho-Ka, etc., and I have high hopes for turducken; to make this fowl flavorful, well, it takes an effort. I suspect that, like opera, most people don’t really like turkey; they just eat it for reasons of ritual.

Allow me to give you a Louisa Chu smackdown for saying turkey has no flavor. It is one of my favorite protiens, ever - at least the dark meat, which is silky, iron-y and rich and makes and takes to gravy like no other meat. Not to mention that it comes with its own little package of offal! I don't even mess around with red bourbons or Ho-Ka's, I've been known to enjoy a plain old Butterball...the only reason we don't eat it more often is because there's three of us and I find the 18-pounders most flavorful: it can take a while to get through that many leftovers. If grocery stores carried the thighs, we'd be eating it a couple times a week. That being said, I usually put a lot of stuff under the skin prior to roasting, meaning a paste of butter and whatever herbs I'm using these days, sometimes I go old-school and put fresh sage and thyme under there, sometimes it's garlic and pepper, but it's usually a lot of flavor.

Despite this, I would agree that {my mother's} overcooked turkey is the food of the damned.

David, I think your problem is that you don't like two-legged creatures with wings, but I wouldn't project my own taste deficiencies to the entire bird-eating world. Maybe you should give in and stop by Farmer's Best for a Thanksgiving piglet.

David, David, David,

I'm sure many people feel your pain about the blandness and mediocrity of so many T-day dinners, but that should be a challenge to rise to, not an excuse to pimp the holiday out with the easy, wanton charms of Italian flavors.

The fact is, the raw materials of Thanksgiving-- turkey, sweet potatoes, cranberries, corn meal, etc.-- are honorable ingredients full of potential flavor.

A good turkey tastes like a chicken that wants to be a duck. Certainly there's more potential there than in chicken itself. Approach the job of roasting it like the French would a poulet bresse, including making a proper gravy starting with a roux and including a little wine, and you have a dish as complex and classic as any French poultry dish.

Stuffing is just as tasty as what you flavor it with. Sausage, oysters, apples, pepperoncini, bleu cheese, this one is easy to make shine.

Sweet potatoes have been stuck at the kid's table for too long-- forced to taste like brown sugar and marshmallows and have the mouthfeel of baby food. But they're as versatile as any regular potato, see all the versions made today with curry, or my accidental discovery of burnt oranges.

Cranberry is a wonderful tart base which accepts many flavors-- orange, lime, tequila, Malort, durian, hrutspungar.

Pumpkin pie is sublime, you're just wrong. Okay, mine does have a little brandy in it, that makes a difference.

There's nothing wrong with Thanksgiving dinner that can't be solved by approaching it in the same mentality as any other classic dish has been approached in this age of fusion, Mediterranean and Mexican influences, and insistence on fresh over canned.

Last year's thread. Very helpful - I'm going to magazine sites, and here, and making a collage of pictures. Then I'm going to let Sparky choose the recipes visually.

Mike G wrote:
Sweet potatoes have been stuck at the kid's table for too long-- forced to taste like brown sugar and marshmallows and have the mouthfeel of baby food. But they're as versatile as any regular potato, see all the versions made today with curry, or my accidental discovery of burnt oranges.

Cranberry is a wonderful tart base which accepts many flavors-- orange, lime, tequila, Malort, durian, hrutspungar.

Pumpkin pie is sublime, you're just wrong. Okay, mine does have a little brandy in it, that makes a difference.

Sweet potatoes as versatile as "regular" potatoes? No way. Mashed sweet potatoes highlight this tuber's lack of integrity. I've yet to have a sweet potato French fry that is nearly as delicious as the regular potato version (arguably the most delicious food ever conceived), and can you imagine the disaster that would result if you tried to add sweet potato to a beef stew? This is clearly a matter of taste, though: good taste vs. bad.

There's nothing inherently wrong with cranberry, and I like it for dessert. As a sidekick for turkey, though, even accounting for the obvious charms of sweet and savory flavors, I can't see it. We have, of course, always made cranberry sauce from the real berries, with some orange, etc., but it stings my tongue. I'm just that sensitive.

Pumpkin pie? Well, if you like it, more power to you. You're surely not alone. The Wife claims she loves it, but she says the same thing about turkey soup.

"A good turkey tastes like a chicken that wants to be a duck." Brilliant insight. I intend to steal this line immediately.

David Hammond wrote:Pumpkin pie is more of the same orange mush and gives me no pleasure. This, I can’t eat. I can hardly even look at it.

David, This is Julia Child's Pumpkin Pie recipe from The Way To Cook. It is almost souffle like with intense flavors. Once you try this, all other pumpkin pies will not do-I make it every year, and everyone loves it.

Julia Child’s Fluffy Pumpkin Pie

For an 11” pie

Chilled butter pastry dough

The basic pumpkin mixture

3 ½ cups cooked or canned pumpkin
1 cup light brown sugar
1 cup granulated sugar
1 tsp salt
3 tbs light molasses
3 tbs bourbon whiskey or dark Jamaican rum
3 tsp each of cinnamon and ground ginger
¼ tsp each of nutmeg and ground cloves
4 egg yolks
1 cup heavy cream
¾ cup milk or more if needed

5 egg whites

Optional garnish: whipped cream or vanilla ice cream

Preliminaries: Preheat the oven to 450. Roll out the chilled dough and fit it into the buttered pie pan, making a strong, fluted rim that extends about ½ inch above the top of the pan. Do not prick the bottom of the pastry.

The pumpkin mixture: Blend the basic pumpkin ingredients together in a mixing bowl; the mixture should hold its shape softly in a spoon; beat in droplets more milk if it seems stiff. Beat the egg whites into stiff peaks, and beat a quarter of them into the pumpkin mixture. Delicately fold in the rest.

Filling the shell: At once, ladle the mixture into the pie shell, filling only to the rim of the pan. Proceed at once to the baking.

Baking-total of about 1 hour starting at 450: Keep your eye on things here, since if the filling cooks too fast it can turn watery.

Start: Immediately after the shell is filled, set the pie in the middle level of the preheated oven and bake for 15 minutes.

Minute 15: When the rim of the crust colors lightly, reduce heat to 375 and bake 15 minutes more. (lower heat if the pastry begins to brown too much)

Minute 30: Turn thermostat down to 350 and continue baking another 15 minutes of so, until a skewer comes out clean when you insert it 2 inches from the edges of the pie.

Minute 45 to 50: Turn the oven off, and leave the door ajar for 20 to 30 minutes more.

Serve the pie warm or cold.

I always make it the day before - I think it tastes better the second day.
_________________

David Hammond wrote:and can you imagine the disaster that would result if you tried to add sweet potato to a beef stew?

Cough.

Mhays wrote:

David Hammond wrote:and can you imagine the disaster that would result if you tried to add sweet potato to a beef stew?

Cough.

MHays, are you disputing or proving my point?

Okay, sweet potato is not as versatile technique-wise, but I think it is ingredient/flavoring-wise-- there are many things you can do with them, well beyond brown sugar and butter.

David Hammond, you are dangerously close to being invited to my house for dinner next October...

OK, back on track. Our Thanksgiving will happen on the day after, since the 'spouse is working on the day - which means I'll be making a cranberry-apple pie for him to take with.

In order to get my menu set up an in the hopes of allaying the whine that so often accompanies Thanksgiving dinner, I made a collage of photos from Epicurious, Saveur, and this site and had Sparky look them over.
He chose:
Pomegranate and Watercress salad (our standard, we don't add celeriac)
Green Bean Casserole
Marinated baby vegetables (I will probably do a roasted riff on this)
Cosmopolitan Cranberry Sauce (the OJ version, though I may add some Cointreau to the cooking sauce)
Stuffed Pumpkin Though probably not vegetarian
Ann Fisher's Sweet Potatoes this way, he gets marshmallows and we get pecans
Butterhorn Rolls (or canned crescent rolls if I'm overwhelmed)
Roast Turkey and Giblet Gravy. (non-negotiable)
Apple Pie(this uses piloncillo; anybody tried it?)
Pecan Pie

I'm still thinking about the cucumber/salmon roe "bubble tea" for a starter, and we'll have a cheese plate and antipasto out for lunch and snacks...

SIDEBAR: Is this a great Forum, or what?

One of the many pleasures and benefits of participating in the LTHForum is getting to know the other members by reading what they write. Then, meeting them in person is even more fun, as you confirm (or correct) the mental impression of them that you have already formed. After all, food is fun but human contact is funner, right? Just look at all of the Forum postings that extol the pleasure of shared food experiences.

Take this topic, for example. By reading between the lines of food tips and hints, we learn that:
--PbandFluff is slightly trepidatious (as are we all) about our responsibilities for the occasion and trying “to keep everything somewhat traditional but put twists on the old faves”
--PlayItGeorge and ndgbucktown are even more so, because of (possibly) long-term social implications
--for chewonthat, the early planning for Thanksgiving provides a Zen-like experience “…for Thanksgiving. It's my favorite holiday too so I can relate.”
--while sujormik is probably a procrastinator, since “I don't start thinking about Thanksgiving until AFTER break-the-fast. lol”
--Jamieson22 thinks that pickles are “EVIL” and Mhays (and, possibly, kafein) might have personal issues with their “multi-generational family gathering!”
--ViewsAskew speaks for all of us who are trying to please everyone and finding it difficult to do so
--jimswside represents those of us who will try almost anything to keep the surprises coming

Great insights into a wide range of interesting people – a bonus on top of all the good food tips.

And just when the conversation starts to lag, David Hammond, one of our senior curmudgeons-in-residence, ignites the fire of controversy and it all gets even more interesting.

Have a wonderful THANKSGIVING, 2008 everyone. If the event can top the lead-in on this Forum, it will truly be a joyous occasion. And, this year we have so much to be thankful for.

As a gentle reminder, Thanksgiving is merely ten days away and some seemed to have begun to celebrate rather early!

I am waiting for my nieces to send me their e-mails of must-haves, which is a path I've walked on too long. I think I'm going to borrow some ideas from here to shake it up a bit.

Regards,