Carlos - Giving Some LTH Love

What's Not to Like? Chicago Carlos' Restaurant

The 2006/7 Zagat's Guide to Chicago Restaurants - bless its tiny democratic heart - awards Carlos, Carlos and Debbie Nieto's contemporary French place near Highwood's restaurant row, a ‘29,' the highest accolade in all of Chicagoland. Is Carlos Chicago's best? Perhaps not, but unlike our T&As - Trotter's, Tru, Topolobampo, Alinea, Ambria, and Arun's - Carlos finds few detractors on Nina and Tim's three-point rating scale.

Despite this uncertain accolade, Carlos may receive less attention than any other serious culinary location. It is not that the cuisine at Carlos - or its chef - are old-fashioned. Granted this is not molecular cuisine, but it certainly is aware of and indebted to contemporary trends. And Carlos more than borrows. The menu is as creative as the most impressive contemporary fare in the region. Perhaps Carlos suffers from its location on the border of Highland Park (although Vie, Le Titi, and Tallgrass, much less Le Francais, do just fine), or perhaps from the sense that it a proprietor-driven restaurant (Carlos Nieto receives the press), rather than a chef-driven one. Can you name the chef at Carlos? It is Ramiro Velasquez, and he can hold his own within anyone in this diner's town. Still, one of my most pleasurable meals in the last few years was a Valentine's Day dinner at Carlos, and my wife and I determined to return before New Year's.

Carlos is not an establishment that trades on its frightening pretensions. Indeed, one might consider the smiling, congenial staff to be too playful, lacking in gustatory gravitas. Unlike restaurants that are so filled with themselves that they provide a genealogy of each ingredient, most dishes at Carlos are served without explanation. The cheerful, competent staff is largely Hispanic, but I found no Iberian bows in the dishes. Borrowing from older culinary traditions, servers dramatically whip away the silvered covers of serving dishes, surprising diners with the pleasures underneath. The wood paneled room is comfortably understated, not an architectural gasp, but warm and inviting.

Because Carlos looks into Chicago from its perch in Lake County, our amuse was a tiny ramekin of foie gras, quail egg, radicchio, finely chopped vegetables, and the inevitable microgreens - a finger in Richie Daley's eye. Put aside the politics, the dish was an awakening. The compilation was complex without being overwhelming, and the flavors, smooth and creamy, just short of bold, were well-modulated. This was an amuse in which the chef was explaining his authority, both in his choice of ingredients and in his confidence in his craft.

We both selected the Degustation Menu, a seven course parade, with a pair of choices for the larger appetizer and the entree. In addition, Carlos invites diners to select choices from the a la carte menu. An inexplicable quirk is that some changes carry a heavy upcharge, while others do not. One can order Chilean sea bass without additional charge. However, if you choose John Dory, you pay $15.00! Both dishes are priced at $39.50. Go figure.

We began with a lovely "Parsnip Bisque with Roasted Chestnut Mousse and Valrhona Les Perles Craquantres" (petite Cocoa Puffs). The presentation was an artistic dream, and the soup as bracing as a warming hickory fire. Chef Velasquez laid down a marker; he has a contemporary sensibility. The bisque was a brilliant launch. It is not Velasquez's style to overpower, but those bits of Valrhona confirmed that this was no homey, safe cuisine. I have only eaten at Carlos in winter; I was itching to learn of their summer cuisine.



"Mountain Huckleberry Glazed Squab Breast with Grilled Pears, Shaved Fennel and a Cabernet-Wild Mushroom Reduction" was another impressive composition. Perhaps it borrowed too heavily from culinary cliques (the requisite fruity-duck), but if one doesn't think too hard of gustatory history, the dish was so amiable that it was hard to reject. The fennel added a more refined taste that nicely matched the mushroom reduction.



"Winter Carnaroli Risotto with Kabocha Squash, Spaghetti Squash and Chestnut Puree" completed our trio of appetizers. I cannot differentiate Arborio from Carnaroli, but the mix of ingredients was another toast to winter, and the chestnut was a melodious refrain of the soup. Risotto needs to be properly portioned so as not to dominate the meal, but to be more than a tasting, and the small timbale of grain and squash was filling without weighing heavily. Provocatively demonstrating Chef Velasquez's brave facility, a flash fried, feathery basil leaf stabbed the mold. Breathless.



Passion Fruit-Mandarin sorbet surprised by its refusal to sooth the sweet-tooth. As a good palate cleanser must, it awakened my mouth in its firm and unyielding tartness. The mandarin was a puckery and mighty taste.

We split entrees. I selected - from the a la carte menu – "‘Roulade' of Muscovy Duck Breast with Veal Sweetbreads, Baby Shiitake, Duck Confit Stuffed Baby Bok Choy, and a Vanilla-Seven Spice Reduction." This ‘roulade' was striking in its presentation, and complex in its flavor. I was less taken by the flavor and texture of the stuffed bok choy, but it was an interesting conceit. The duck and sweetbreads made for a startling pairing, and the vanilla reduction was impressively aromatic.



Better yet was my wife's choice, "Pumpernickel Crusted Barramundi (Australian giant perch) with Pumpkin-Lobster Reduction and Diver Sea Scallop Stuffed Mussels with a Sage Beurre Noisette." Let me be succinct: the barramundi with its napping of pumpkin-lobster was one of the most tremendous dishes of the year, a combination of tastes that I will not soon forget. It was brilliant. The scallop stuffed mussels was another of the chef's conceits, but a very tasty one. But that barramundi with its supremely opulent lobster reduction married to the compliant pumpkin's slightly bulky sweetness! Wow!



And now, sated, perhaps we were secretly transported to some eatery down the street. Never have I eaten so well under the hands of the chef and been so dismayed when handed off to the dessert crew. When I asked our server of the pastry chef, not listed on the Carlos website, he responded "Elizabeth." Could she be in the witness protection program? Let me not be too harsh. Perhaps we are in the hands of a novice or a gifted cuisinaire on a bad hair day. In truth, the desserts were neither more or less distinguished than dozens of suburban establishments.

We begun with a "surprise dessert." When my wife tasted her profiterole, she muttered that it was stale (or stale-ish). Could this have been the surprise? She might have mentioned that the vanilla ice cream was both over-frozen and under-flavored. She could have noted that the chocolate sauce seemed wan, thin, and ordinary. Aside from an odd pair at Le Bernardin, never had I had two dishes in sequence that traveled so far from zenith to nadir.



The sympathy of desserts were only better in comparison. None of the trio were distinguished. The almond tuile with orange ice cream was characterized by more overly frozen custard with a somewhat bitter off-taste. The small cube of pumpkin-chocolate layer cake was less distinguished that cakes found at the better bakeries. The tiny ramekin of Vanilla Creme Brulee was smooth and sweet underneath an overly firm crackly crust. The concluding the petits fours were serviceable, but did nothing to save a disappointing end.



We are in the midst of the age of sweets. Here in Chicago (think Mindy Segal) and in New York (think Will Goldfarb) dessertistas are laying down markers. I'll assume that our evening was an off-night, but, if not, a restaurant that is as wise, as happy, as creative as Carlos should wise for us to gasp at the end, not to yawn. A chef as gifted as Velasquez deserves a Goya or Picasso at his side. If not, at least we could have been presented with a lagniappe of candied foie gras for the trek to Rogers Park.

Carlos
429 Temple
Highland Park, IL
847-432-0770
www.carlos-restaurant.com

http://www.vealcheeks.blogspot.com

I love Carlos', and wish I could afford to eat there more often. I've always ordered a la carte, and perhaps that is what saved me. I'm not much of a dessert eater, so I've always left with the taste of truffles or foie gras or some other sensational savory being my most vivid memory. To bad they aren't as celestial there as they are with other courses.

Thanks for the report. Once my Christmas bills are all paid off, I'll be thinking about a trip back.

HI,

For whatever it matters, Debbie Nieto is the Pastry Chef at Carlos. While she may not be personally involved in the daily execution, I know she is responsible for their design.

Regards,

GAF wrote:Because Carlos looks into Chicago from its perch in Lake County, our amuse was a tiny ramekin of foie gras, quail egg, radicchio, finely chopped vegetables, and the inevitable microgreens - a finger in Richie Daley's eye.

I love Carlos. It's been a number of years since I have visited. Thanks to this post for putting it back on my radar. The only thing I want to point out is that Daley was not in favor of the foie gras ban, publicly calling it silly and chiding the city council for diverting their attention away from more pressing matters. Blame for the foie gras ban should land squarely on the shoulders of a few misguided do-gooder aldermen...not Daley.

Daley does have the veto pen, and so, presumably, does Debbie Nieto. But stevez point is historically - if not rhetorically - accurate. Still one can't help feeling that foie gras was in the amuse just to make a point about Chicago.

And whoever is in charge in the corner of the kitchen where pastries are made, attention is needed to bring them up to the level of the main courses.

GAF wrote:Is Carlos Chicago's best? Perhaps not, but unlike our T&As - Trotter's, Tru, Topolobampo, Alinea, Ambria, and Arun's - Carlos finds few detractors on Nina and Tim's three-point rating scale.

"Chicago's best" is, of course, by its very nature a subjective argument. I happen to think that Everest is Chicago's best (although I also give props to Michael in Winnetka). Zagat survey responders, and many folks here, may hold a different opinion.

We are fortunate to live in a city where an argument over "best" can mention a dozen serious candidates - to begin with! (And I'll add a couple dozen more from Zagat in a moment.) This supports my opinion that Chicago's restaurant scene offers far more than that of any other city in the entire country with the exception of New York (which IMHO is equal in quality but far worse in price/value, not that that is particularly important at this high level).

When you look at the top food ratings on Zagat, you start to get a flavor of what accounts for their success:

29 - Carlos
28 - Le Francais, Les Nomades, Tru, Alinea, Tallgrass, Arun's, Ambria
27 - Topolobampo, Charlie Trotter's, Everest, Vie, Spring, Barrington Bistro, Oceanique, Ritz-Carlton Dining Room
26 - Courtright's, Frontera Grill, Spiaggia, Mirai Sushi, Avenues, mk, Isabella's Estiatorio, Gabriel's, Seasons, Va Pensiero, Crofton on Wells, Sushi Wabi, Le Titi de Paris, Joe's Seafood/Steak, Slabute, Agami, Morton's Steak, Kevin, NoMI, Le Lan, Bistro Banlieue, Naha

Even at the 26 rating, this list still includes some places that many consider among our very best.

IMHO this is a real mishmosh of restaurants, that are in many cases not directly comparable. Some are highly rated because their food is more creative. Others - Oceanique is a great example - are far from the cutting edge in creativity, but the food is consistently wonderful. I haven't been to every restaurant on this list, but I've been to most of them; I am confident that one can find a delicious meal and a wonderful experience at any of them (except for Crofton, where I had rude service resulting in a horrible experience, but that's beside the point). And that's what results in top ratings - people go there and have great food and a wonderful time, and that's what gives them high ratings among survey responders. When you take the 38 restaurants with such high ratings, making further distinctions about which is "best" is such a matter of fine distinctions that it's rather silly to pick any one as "clearly better" than the other 37. You can find great food at all of them.

It's worth remembering that any list like this will represent certain biases inherent in how the voting is done.

With Zagat's three-point scale, which gives you little room to distinguish between "very good" and "great," it's virtually guaranteed that some very good restaurant that does everything right will get enough 3s to score close to the perfect 30, while a genuinely great restaurant, if it's daring and creative, will get enough 1s from people who find it insufferable to rank lower. Thus a restaurant could win "best restaurant in Chicago" even when not a single person voting would personally call it that.

Meanwhile the very same voters, given a 100-point scale, might have given the very good place a lot of 85s and 90s, while the great place might have gotten enough 99s and 100s to beat it.

All this is meant to be hypothetical and not necessarily to refer to Carlos or anywhere else-- it's just worthwhile to understand what an award actually represents and how it got there.

Mike G wrote:With Zagat's three-point scale, which gives you little room to distinguish between "very good" and "great," it's virtually guaranteed that some very good restaurant that does everything right will get enough 3s to score close to the perfect 30, while a genuinely great restaurant, if it's daring and creative, will get enough 1s from people who find it insufferable to rank lower. Thus a restaurant could win "best restaurant in Chicago" even when not a single person voting would personally call it that.

Meanwhile the very same voters, given a 100-point scale, might have given the very good place a lot of 85s and 90s, while the great place might have gotten enough 99s and 100s to beat it.

In addition to their three-point scale, Zagat's also asks survey responders to indicate their five top choices of restaurant overall, prioritized (1 through 5) which can be used to make distinctions between restaurants that otherwise receive the top ratings in each of the various categories. I assume that they take this into account in their ratings.

Hello. My husband and I have reservations for Monday night at Carlos' for our anniversary. There are two degustation menus. One is for meat/game and the other is for shellfish/fish. I just spoke to someone at the restaurant who said that as a rule they do not allow for substitutions. I find that kind of odd. Five courses of meat accompanied by five glasses of red wine if you opt for the pairings seems like overkill (no pun intended). I suppose that one of us could get the fish and the other the meat, but as my husband does not drink alcohol, I'd be out on the appropriate wine pairings. Has anyone been here and had a flexible menu? How about recent experiences at this restaurant in general? Thanks!

The restaurant quality is always top notch, one of the best in northern Illinois. You will have no issues with food or service quality.

When I go on Monday evenings, I usually just order off of the menu. Mondays are my favorite time at Carlos because you can bring your own wine with no corkage. You might want to go this direction since your husband doesn't drink alcohol. I would suggest that you pick up a good quality half bottle of white and half bottle of red for yourself, and then ask Carlos for some pairing options from the menu. I don't think you'll go wrong.

Agree with Danza! I always go on Monday and bring my own wine. Carlos will tailer your meal to the wine or just get the Degustations of your choice and tell them when to serve what wine.
Carlos is still one of the finest dining destinations.-Dick

Sounds great, guys. I did hear that Carlos' is known for their wine list. I'm not sure if that translates into their wine pairings by the glass. I don't want to miss out on that if they have some good finds. Also, I've heard that the desserts are not up to par, but maybe those comments are dated?

aughmag wrote:Also, I've heard that the desserts are not up to par, but maybe those comments are dated?

I don't recall that being the case. I haven't been there since April however.

So, tonight we ate at Carlos as part of Opentable's "Appetite Stimulus Plan" promotion. It was excellent!

In case you haven't heard about the Appetite Stimulus promotion, this week (Monday through Friday) over 75 restaurants in the Chicago area are offering a 3-course lunch for $24 and/or a 3-course dinner for $35. We decided to go to Carlos as part of the promotion. I had not been there in years, and my dining companion had never been there. So away we went.

Don't forget, Carlos is still one of the very few restaurants in the Chicago area (eight, by my count), and the only one in the suburbs, for which jackets are required for gentlemen.

We entered the dining room and were greeted and led to our table. The dining room is a lovely blend of the classic and modern, with a traditional room décor of dark wood and velvet, with various contemporary accents such as the lighting fixtures (one of which looked like a Dale Chihuly work). Very classy.

Even before we ordered, we were served an amuse bouche consisting of several stalks of miniature asparagus wrapped with some sort of cheese layer, topped with various bits that I could not identify, and on top was a thin layer of fried lotus root (which I call a "lotus chip"). Very good indeed.

We looked at the special Appetite Stimulus Menu as well as their regular menu. The Appetite Stimulus is the best deal, but they have another promotion running through the end of this month that offers value almost as good, so if you don't make it there by this Friday, you still have time to eat at Carlos for a fraction of the price. More on that in a moment. First, the Appetite Stimulus Menu:

1. Choice of (a) Lobster Bisque, or (b) Mixed Green Salad with Goat Cheese and Balsamic Vinaigrette

2. Choice of (a) Wild King Salmon Papillote with Julienne Vegetables, Fine Herbs and Sauce Americana, or (b) Sliced Beef Tenderloin with Grilled Vegetables, Shallot-Roquefort Whipped Potatoes and a Cabernet-Rosemary Reduction

3. Symphony of Desserts

The Appetite Stimulus Menu also has promotional prices on two wines for $8.50 for a 5-ounce glass and $32 a bottle, which is WAY below their normal prices on the wine list. One was a 2006 Hacienda Chardonnay, the other a 2005 Hacienda Merlot. My companion had a glass of the latter.

The other promotion they're running this month is a celebration of their 27th anniversary. For each course, in addition to the usual items at their customary 2008 prices, they are also offering one or two items from their original menu when they opened in 1981, at their prices at that time. That's the other promotion that offers value that's almost as good, since the starters and salad are around $8, and mains around $24. (By comparison, the normal 2008 prices are roughly $15-20 for appetizers and $40-50 for entrees.) All of the items on the Appetite Stimulus Menu are also part of their 1981 promotional items. You can see the regular menu (including the 1981 promotion) on their website at http://www.carlos-restaurant.com. They also had several specials of the day not shown on either menu.

Two of the appetizers on the regular menu caught our eye, so we decided to have a four-course dinner (not counting the amuse bouche), starting with those two appetizers ordered a la carte, and then the Appetite Stimulus Menu, with one of each of the choices on that menu.

One of the appetizers we ordered was part of the 1981 promotion, the Wild Burgundy Escargots in Brioche á Téte with a Roquefort Pernod Cream Sauce for $9.50. It was excellent! It's worth noting that the sauce didn't really look or taste all that much like Roquefort, Pernod, or cream; it was more like a very rich brown reduction, very tasty but without those distinguishing flavors. The other appetizer we ordered was the only item we ordered at 2008 prices, the “Hot and Cold Foie Gras”, which is Pan-Seared Hudson Valley Foie Gras, along with a Medallion of La Belle Farms Cold Foie Gras for $23.50. These were served very cleverly, with the hot foie gras on top of a thick cube-shaped glass platform, under which sat the cold foie gras. I think the additional ingredients served with the foie gras are different from those specified on the website menu, but I do not remember exactly what they were (sorry!). There was a thin layer of something breadlike slightly sweet below the hot foie gras, and there were red shreds of some kind of sweet fruit, and a dab of a slightly sweet sauce. The cold foie gras was served with a gelee of some sort and frisee greens. They were both superb, my personal award winner for "best in show".

Next up were the soup and salad from the Appetite Stimulus Menu. A really great lobster bisque is made by boiling and reducing lobster shells, and it turns brown in cooking. That's what this was. Great lobster flavor, very rich, topped with a few shreds of toasted (?) veggies and a few dots of herb oil. The salad was good too (although perhaps the least unusual dish of the meal); I like the way they used strips of cucumber to form a cylinder in which the greens were presented.

The mains were excellent also. The beef was cooked perfectly to the requested medium-rare, and tender as could be. The salmon was also excellent. The real attraction of the salmon was the sauce, which turned out to be a rich lobster sauce, a reduction similar to the bisque but this time with nice little chunks of lobster in it.

We did ask them to show us the selection of desserts in case we wanted anything other than what came on the Appetite Stimulus Menu, and they brought over the two dessert trays displaying the selection. We each had the dessert that came on the AS Menu. It was a plate with three VERY small desserts on it: a raspberry-chocolate marquis in the shape of a pyramid, which was like a chocolate truffle topped with a raspberry; a layered chocolate-banana mousse cake; and a chocolate cup with a scoop of vanilla ice cream in it. All of these were very good, and although they were small, they were just the right touch at the end of a relatively rich meal. The presentation was also very nice; they drizzled chocolate onto the plate to form the outline of a branch with four leaves on it, and they filled each leaf with a tiny bit of a different kind of sauce: crème anglaise (vanilla), mango, apple, and raspberry.

The service was exactly what you expect at a top-notch restaurant. The main server, a young fellow (I don't think he mentioned his name, and the receipt says "1 Carlos" but I can assure you he was not old enough to be Carlos Nieto) was friendly and humorous, always outgoing, and made sure to check with us shortly after the runners brought each course. Before taking our drink order, he was quick to mention the wine special on the AS Menu so that we were aware of it. Other servers and staff were all friendly and efficient, staying on top of things flawlessly so that you never even think about any service issues.

With all of the above-mentioned items (including the glass of wine), a $4 iced tea, and $10 sales tax, the bill came to $126 before tip, which is quite the bargain for a four-course meal at Carlos. I did give a very generous tip, under the assumption that an appropriate tip would be one based on what the meal might normally cost, not what it actually cost with the AS Menu promotion.

The Appetite Stimulus Menu promotion runs through this Friday, and the 1981 items run through the end of the month. They have various other promotions too, including BYO Mondays. They are open for lunch Monday through Friday December 10-24.

After 27 years, Carlos remains one of the best restaurants in the Chicago area, and this dinner was an excellent example.

aughmag wrote:I've heard that the desserts are not up to par, but maybe those comments are dated?

I guess it depends on what you consider "par" (and I'm not trying to be picky about words here). The selection we saw was similar to the ones shown on the restaurant's website. Based on the desserts we ate and the ones we saw, I would consider their desserts to be very good and what you would expect at a restaurant of this caliber. By way of comparison with a few other restaurants around town, I would say that they are reasonably creative/complex but not the MOST creative and complex desserts (vs. Avenues or the pre-McDonald one sixtyblue); reasonably delicious although not the MOST delicious desserts (vs. Oceanique, which I've found consistently the MOST delicious although not necessarily the most creative or complex, or pre-McDonald one sixtyblue). So they were very good, and worthy of an excellent restaurant, while not quite the very best in town. (I would not say this about every fine restaurant; to cite two counter-examples, earlier this year I had an otherwise-excellent dinner at Custom House where I found the desserts a disappointment, and was similarly disappointed by the desserts at Hot Chocolate.)

Hope that answers the question.

Ken,
I'm so glad you didn't post pix. As it was, I was salivating. If pix were included, I'd be digesting my monitor right now.

Hi,

Carlos wife Debbie is the pastry chef as well as the decorator.

Regards,

Quoting from the new Dish column in Chicago Magazine:

Dish wrote:Live it up at Carlos’, where every night is now prix fixe night: three courses, $40. (Closed Tuesdays)

What a deal!!!

Carlos now waves the corkage on Friday as well as the traditional Monday. We have become so accustomed to going on Monday that we haven't given Friday a try yet!
I certainly hope that Carlos weathers the current economic climate because there is no other place close that has supplied such consistantly fine dining over such a long period of time.
-Dick

Very sad news: per tweet from Steve Dolinsky, Carlos' in Highwood will be serving its last meal New Year's Eve.

I've had some of my best meals and worst meals at Carlos. After a run of less-than-enjoyable experiences, I stopped going a few years back. For me, it really lost its specialness. In any case, it's certainly the end of an era. The way we dine -- especially in the burbs -- is ever-evolving and Carlos began to feel like it was a step out of time. When the food was on, it was a charming and enitrely worthy suburban destination. When it wasn't, the place felt like little more than a dated room in Siberia with perfunctory food. Always great wines, though. I'll grant them that.

=R=

I've never had a bad meal at Carlos, and the service was always top notch. But I think the suburbs generally can't support a restaurant at this level. I believe it's just a case of a general mindset these days that a top level dining experience happens in the city. IMHO, it's the same thing that finally toppled La Francais. It's really sad to see happen after so many years.

John Danza wrote:I've never had a bad meal at Carlos, and the service was always top notch.

Same here.

John Danza wrote:But I think the suburbs generally can't support a restaurant at this level. I believe it's just a case of a general mindset these days that a top level dining experience happens in the city. IMHO, it's the same thing that finally toppled La Francais. It's really sad to see happen after so many years.

I don't know that that's necessarily true. Remember, Jean Banchet originally opened Le Francais in Wheeling so that the restaurant would be filled with those who appreciated fine cuisine, rather than the convention-goers and tourists who fill restaurants in downtown Chicago. (I'm sure the lower real estate prices were an attraction as well.) And it was considered the best restaurant in the country in much of the 1970s and 1980s.

I think a top chef who wanted to open an uber-creative restaurant could probably do so anywhere and still be successful. There are some darn good restaurants in the 'burbs (Michael, Tallgrass, Vie, Le Titi de Paris, Oceanique, Inovasi). Granted, they're not on the same level as Carlos. But if Grant Achatz or Curtis Duffy or Graham Elliot Bowles wanted to open a restaurant in the suburbs, I think there are plenty of people who would go and enjoy it. (Would Next be any less of a phenomenon if it were located in Evanston or Wheeling or Oak Park? I doubt it.) I think the "mindset" you refer to is not in the minds of customers, but rather, in the minds of the media, whose writers typically look down their noses at suburban restaurants as somehow not worthy, no matter how good they are (as the Michelin Guide and its arbitrary 25-mile restriction, applied in Chicago but not elsewhere, illustrate so well).

I wonder whether their formal attire (jackets required for gentlemen) hurt their business? They were the last such public restaurant in the suburbs, and there aren't all that many left in the city, either (six, I think).

nsxtasy wrote:I think a top chef who wanted to open an uber-creative restaurant could probably do so anywhere and still be successful. There are some darn good restaurants in the 'burbs (Michael, Tallgrass, Vie, Le Titi de Paris, Oceanique, Inovasi). Granted, they're not on the same level as Carlos. But if Grant Achatz or Curtis Duffy or Graham Elliot Bowles wanted to open a restaurant in the suburbs, I think there are plenty of people who would go and enjoy it. (Would Next be any less of a phenomenon if it were located in Evanston or Wheeling or Oak Park? I doubt it.) I think the "mindset" you refer to is not in the minds of customers, but rather, in the minds of the media, whose writers typically look down their noses at suburban restaurants as somehow not worthy, no matter how good they are (as the Michelin Guide and its arbitrary 25-mile restriction, applied in Chicago but not elsewhere, illustrate so well).

I think you're right about the mindset of the media. I didn't know about the Michelin restriction and find that crazy because there are so many good restaurants in the burbs outside of that distance. But for me, I think "city" when I think high-end dining. That's probably driven by me being in Naperville, where it's easier and quicker to get into the city than it is to get get to Highwood. I've know John des Rosiers for years and love Inovasi but I still don't get there as much as I should because it's 50 miles to Inovasi and 30 miles to downtown Chicago. The western burbs is a fine dining wasteland IMHO (can't get excited about going to Western Springs for Vie).

nsxtasy wrote:I wonder whether their formal attire (jackets required for gentlemen) hurt their business? They were the last such public restaurant in the suburbs, and there aren't all that many left in the city, either (six, I think).

You're probably correct with the way people like to be casual these days, but that's such a mistake. Getting dressed up for dinner makes the experience that much more special, and frankly shows respect to your fellow guests and the establishment. As a member of the Chicago branch of the International Wine & Food Society, I go to 10 black tie dinners a year at various places throughout the city and it really feels special because you look good. Sorry if that sounds old-fashioned (I'm 51), but the dress contributes to the atmosphere of the evening.

If the food's still consisently great at Carlos (a dubious claim, in my experience) and the suburbs can still support fine-dining, what exactly are forces that are closing places like Le Francais and Carlos? I think it's completely misguided to blame the media. While some see these restauants as classical, others see them as entirely stagnant. As much as diners are comforted by sameness, they also get bored with it, and I think that's true in the suburbs and the city. People don't eat the same way they did 10 years ago and I believe that's why these places struggle. Heck, even Carlos knows this. That's why he opened Happ Inn, which is a cash cow that's crowded every single night of the week.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:If the food's still consisently great at Carlos (a dubious claim, in my experience) and the suburbs can still support fine-dining, what exactly are forces that are closing places like Le Francais and Carlos? =R=

It's pretty easy for people to blame the economy these days, but that's BS. Most of the restaurants I go to are packed these days and people are spending money, so that's not it. Unfortunately, I think it might be the overall casualness of ou society these days, where a lot of folks want to just put on a pair of jeans and a shirt no matter where they're going. Jeez, I sound like a geezer!

ronnie_suburban wrote:what exactly are forces that are closing places like Le Francais and Carlos? I think it's completely misguided to blame the media.

I didn't blame the media for those restaurants closing, only for displaying a mindset that places in the suburbs are not worth reporting on.

ronnie_suburban wrote:While some see these restauants as classical, others see them as entirely stagnant.

Well, one thing working against Carlos is that the place just seemed old-fashioned, as reflected in the attire, the decor, etc. In his defense, though, I think he has made some moves to keep traffic up, such as special bargain menus (including participation in Restaurant Week), BYOB nights, and other promotions.

However, in general, high-end dining isn't doing all that well. There just aren't all that many high-end places in Chicago, and the number is not increasing, either. For every L2O or Ria that opens up, there's a Carlos, NoMI, or Avenues closing or re-concepting.

I think one of the biggest factors against the expansion of high-end dining is that there is so much great, creative food to be had at a fraction of the price (and, for many people, not dressing up is an attraction, too). So many of our top chefs have opened bistro type places where you can have unusual, creative food prepared by terrific chefs, without having to spend a fortune. For every TRU or Spiaggia where you'll spend $200-250/pp inclusive, there are dozens of places like Blackbird or Michael where you'll spend half that much, and dozens more like Inovasi or Sable where you'll spend barely a quarter of that price, and they're doing a good business despite the economy. This was not true as recently as 10-15 years ago, but the proliferation of fine dining cuisine at family dining prices has been remarkable (and has been accelerated by the recession, although I think it's here to stay even if and when the economy recovers).

nsxtasy wrote:However, in general, high-end dining isn't doing all that well. There just aren't all that many high-end places in Chicago, and the number is not increasing, either. For every L2O or Ria that opens up, there's a Carlos, NoMI, or Avenues closing or re-concepting.

I think one of the biggest factors against the expansion of high-end dining is that there is so much great, creative food to be had at a fraction of the price (and, for many people, not dressing up is an attraction, too). So many of our top chefs have opened bistro type places where you can have unusual, creative food prepared by terrific chefs, without having to spend a fortune. For every TRU or Spiaggia where you'll spend $200-250/pp inclusive, there are dozens of places like Blackbird or Michael where you'll spend half that much, and dozens more like Inovasi or Sable where you'll spend barely a quarter of that price, and they're doing a good business despite the economy. This was not true as recently as 10-15 years ago, but the proliferation of fine dining cuisine at family dining prices has been remarkable (and has been accelerated by the recession, although I think it's here to stay even if and when the economy recovers).

Really well said Ken! Combine the places you're talking about with interesting BYOB places (Schwa and Bonsoiree at the high end, places like Mixteco, Dorado, HB Home Bistro and Glen's in the mid-tier), and you can eat and drink very well with not a lot out of pocket. I recently went to Trotter's because my sister wanted to go again. While it was excellent, it wasn't really worth the near-$1000 it cost for two people.

This used to be my wife's favorite place. I asked her why we haven't been there more than once in the last two years (despite living about 7 miles away). She said that it wasn't as good as it had been in the past, it hasn't changed/didn't seem contemporary in any way, it is expensive/not a good value, favorite server left (Garin). Then I asked her where we've been going in the last couple years on days we'd typically go to Carlos. She said "Ria, Avenues, Graham Elliot"

I'd rather go to those other places that my wife mentioned for a similar amount of coin as it would cost at Carlos. Although those other places are more contemporary than Carlos, I still frequent restaurants like Titi and Michael which I would consider very traditional / stagnant / borderline tired. I know when I go to Titi or Michael that I'm not going to spend nearly what I would at Carlos. I guess if I'm going to put on a suit and spend $500+ on a meal, I'd like it to be special and/or different. If I'm going to spend $250, it doesn't have to be different or special; very good is sufficient.

-Matt

nsxtasy wrote:
However, in general, high-end dining isn't doing all that well. There just aren't all that many high-end places in Chicago, and the number is not increasing, either. For every L2O or Ria that opens up, there's a Carlos, NoMI, or Avenues closing or re-concepting.

Also, consider the demographics of those frequenting high-end dining restaurants. I would guess that there are many more young people going to high-end dining establishments now than there were 5 or 10 years ago. If, on the whole, the quantity of high-end diners is not growing (again, a guess), then the high-end dining dollar is skewing younger. Traditional restaurants like Carlos, Trotters, Les Nomades, etc. are not likely to be on the top of the list for that demo. Furthermore, I believe that Carlos eschewed that demo by sticking to the dress policy.