Carbonara

I would like some guidance from the experts regarding Carbonara. Antonius' recipe for matriciana was such a resounding success, that I have carefully read his previous posts regarding carbonara.

I've tried Hazan's recipe which seems to conflict in a few ways from what Antonius prefers: she uses garlic and the eggs are not cooked at all over heat, just from the heat of the cooked pasta. I did end up cooking it anyway because of the lower boiling point here at 7000'. I was not blown away by the results.

So I would be most grateful for a "tried-and-true" recipe. Thanks!

Bill:

You don't specify what was less than satisfying in the result: texture? flavour? both?

With regard to flavour, I don't know what one can do but deviate from the basic recipe. This dish is essentially alla Matriciana with eggs taking the place of tomatoes. In serving, use lots of black pepper and lots of pecorino.

With regard to texture, I ask whether you tried tempering the beaten eggs with a little of the boiling water from the pasta pot or some other very hot liquid? This dish is hard to get just right: cooking the eggs in a pan that is too hot or for too long or letting the pan just sit unattended will result in lumps of scrambled eggs, which one tries to avoid. I have speculated elsewhere that the use of cream is an attempt to circumnavigate this difficulty but attentiveness and practice at the crucial stage of joining eggs and pasta should lead to the proper result.

If the flavour of the very simple traditional version leaves you disappointed and you think a little garlic (Hazan just scents the oil, I believe) or onion might perk it up, by all means give it a try. You don't want to waste your guanciale on dishes that don't please.

Buona fortuna,
Antonius

Antonius,

It was the texture more than anything. I guess I overcooked the egg. I did not temper it, but will tomorrow with some of the pasta cooking water and see what happens.

Thanks so much for the help.

Bill:

It's hard for me to get the way I most like it.

I don't like the barely or not cooked egg sensation (though clearly some do and God bless them) that one gets just mixing eggs in with the pasta off heat. But cooking them just a little to get them cooked but not curdled or scrambled is not the easiest task. It's one of those things that Grandma's do with no effort and Gandsons do with great focus and some angst.

Tempering, low heat and vigorous mixing should work. But even if the eggs curdle a bit, it still tastes damn good.

A

Antonius,

I followed Signora Hazan's recipe with the exception of using guanciale instead of pancetta. But I did take 1/4 cup of the pasta water to temper the egg/cheese mixture as you suggested, poured the mixture into the drained pasta, then added the guanciale and it's rendered fat.

It was perfect, just perfect, and so intensly satisfying. I'm sitting here unable to move even though I have a bunch of baby backs in the smoker for the game this afternoon. I don't think I'll eat again for a few days

Hazan calls for 1 1/4 pound of spaghetti (~ 1/2 kilo) but the stuff I buy, even the imported brands, usually comes in 1 pound packages. So I made the full recipe without adjustments using just 1 pound and held back about 1/3 of the fat from the guanciale. Seemed to work well. There was no sauce left in the pot and every strand had a nice coating.

Bill/SFNM

Bill, if you can find Martelli spaghetti (in a canary yellow bag), try it: it's my favorite for carbonara.

Also, use small or medium eggs (fresher the better, of course): the yolk to white ratio makes an even richer carbonara.

Also, have you tried spaghetti alla gricia yet? And, though not an opportunity for your guanciale, spaghetti cacio e pepe should be on your fast food list, too. Or when you're eating in bianco (when your liver is too "fragile" for tomato).

Hi,

Antonius' presentation on Saturday sent quite a few people home with the mission to make Spaghetti Carbonara.

My favored recipe came via my piano teacher who gave my twelve-year-old self a recipe from the 1960's Time-Life series on Italian cuisine. Bacon was fried to a crisp, some of the fat discarded, then cream and optional red chili flakes were introduced. In separate bowls were softened butter and in another 2 eggs and 2 egg yolks beaten with parmesan cheese. After the spaghetti was cooked and drained, butter was introduced followed by the egg-cheese mixture and finally the bacon, cream and red peppers.

I can't recall ordering Spaghetti Carbonara in restaurants, because it was something I could get at home. When dining companions ordered Spaghetti Carbonara, it often seem more Alfredo-ish cream sauce-ish, then the preparation I knew. Consequently many of the foreign-to-Carbonara variants Antonius outlined I had never experienced: white wine, garlic and onions. While cream was mentioned as an ingredient to help achieve a creamy consistency, it was not in the early recipes. Nor was chili pepper flakes, though lots of black pepper was present.

Sunday evening I made Spaghetti Carbonara in close proximity to Antonius' understanding of this dish. I state close proximity because I left the room briefly to get some water for him and may have missed something.

I fried to a crisp 10 ounces of unsmoked bacon (it's what I had). In a bowl I scrambled 3 extra large eggs, then added freshly grated parmesan cheese. Once the linguine (it's what I had in-house) was al dente, then I drained it and returned to pot it was cooked in. I tipped in some of the bacon fat to coat, then added the egg-parmesan mixture, followed by the remaining bacon and lots of black pepper.



We liked this Spaghetti Carbonara quite a bit. Not requiring any cream also means it is a dish I can spontaneously make with ingredients almost always in-house. Whereas the other version was usually made around occasions when leftover cream might be available.

Thanks, Antonius! It was fun to learn the foodways history and eat it, too!

Regards,

Thanks, Cathy! I was just going to ask if someone could post a picture; I've made this dish a couple of times, but it's difficult to make anything (especially when eggs are involved) when you don't know how the final result is supposed to look.

The first time I got scrambled eggs with pasta (returned the mass to the skillet and obviously cooked too hard), which wasn't awful, but wasn't good either. Last time (tempering eggs with pasta water and returning to skillet off the heat) I got a result closer to your photo, but mine seems greasier in comparison. Looks like something to try again - esp. in this weather!

Michele

Ray Ray went to italy on $40 a day and had carbonara that looked fantastic (must have been a slow night). I had guanchale in the freezer so I took a stab. The results were outstanding and took abot 15 minutes. I did not add the cream and substituted for the panchetta. Lots of fresh black pepper from Pensys. I do not know how authentic it was but it sure tasted good. The eggs were not scrambled at all and were still cooked through from the hot pan. Dont let the Ray Ray bubbly personality scare you, as it is not her recipe. You can retrieve recipe by going to foodtv.com and searching her show with key woord Italy or typing in the following

Babaluch

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes ... 34,00.html

HI,

I read the attribution for Rachel Ray's recipe:

Spaghetti alla Carbonara Recipe courtesy Enotcea Corsi, Rome Italy

The other recipe from this episode looks worth trying:

Gaio Mazio's Pork, ancient recipe from Giulio Cesare's time Recipe courtesy Spirito Di Vino Restaurant, Rome Italy

Maybe on March 15th, The Ides of March.

Regards,

Cathy,

It's looks from your picture that you did an excellent job of getting the creamy texture with just the eggs and cheese that the dish traditionally features! I'm really glad the recipe worked so well and that you enjoyed it.

Antonius

Is carbonara a strictly italian dish or are there regional variations throughout Europe?

The reason I ask is that many years ago a visiting student from France taught me to make a dish he called carbonara. He made his sauce with cream, goat cheese, onion, white pepper and fatback. It was delcious and I still make it occassionally, but I've always wondered if perhaps we had too much wine and he mistakenly called it carbonara OR if this is indeed a french version of carbonara. Anyone?

Kitchen Monkey wrote:Is carbonara a strictly italian dish or are there regional variations throughout Europe?

The reason I ask is that many years ago a visiting student from France taught me to make a dish he called carbonara. He made his sauce with cream, goat cheese, onion, white pepper and fatback. It was delcious and I still make it occassionally, but I've always wondered if perhaps we had too much wine and he mistakenly called it carbonara OR if this is indeed a french version of carbonara. Anyone?

KM,

Spaghetti alla carbonara is an Italian regional dish -- from Lazio and other neighbouring regions in central Italy -- which, like many such Italian dishes, has a very limited and rather set list of ingredients and a flavour and textural profile that demands the recipe is executed in certain ways. What you describe is most definitely not spaghetti alla carbonara in a narrow sense, though it is clearly based on the central Italian dish. It sounds as though it is something that, if prepared well, would be very tasty but it deviates considerably from the Italian forebear. Clearly, the French person you mention (or someone who taught him or her the dish) has adapted the Italian recipe to his or her tastes and kept the name: alla carbonara is, after all, an Italian (dialectal) name, and not French.

Nowadays, spaghetti alla carbonara is made throughout the civilised and uncivilised world, though typically not in the traditional manner outside kitchens in which central Italian culinary ways are known and valued. I think it fair to say that it is, for example, especially popular in Germany, but there -- as here -- the tendency is to add the pleasant but to my mind quite unnecessary cream.

Some time, perhaps I'll give the combination you describe a try; it does sound quite good; I especially like the detail of the adaptation from the Italian recipe regarding the essential pepper, from black to white. Bad for the poetry of the dish but a nice touch.

Antonius

P.S. Kein Knoblauch, bitte / senza aglio, per favore / pas d'ail, als 't u blieft.

Antonius wrote:[
P.S. Kein Knoblauch, bitte / senza aglio, per favore / pas d'ail, als 't u blieft.

A,

Your postings have inspired me to make Carbonara for lunch today. I am having a little trouble with Google Translate. Please confirm that I need to add 4 cloves of garlic. Seems like too little to me.

Bill/SFNM

Bill/SFNM wrote:

Antonius wrote:P.S. Kein Knoblauch, bitte / senza aglio, per favore / pas d'ail, als 't u blieft.

A,

Your postings have inspired me to make Carbonara for lunch today. I am having a little trouble with Google Translate. Please confirm that I need to add 4 cloves of garlic. Seems like too little to me.

Bill/SFNM

Yes, four extra large cloves should do nicely, finely minced and fried till dark brown...*


A

*This post is intended purely for entertainment purposes. Please do not try to make this dish with the garlic as indicated here. If served such a dish, tuck your head between knees and arms beneath the table and scream loudly until unconsciousness is achieved.

Thanks for answering that Antonius.

Kitchen Monkey wrote:Thanks for answering that Antonius.

And thanks to you for posting the description of the French variation on the theme. I will try that some time.

A

Antonius wrote:Clearly, the French person you mention (or someone who taught him or her the dish) has adapted the Italian recipe to his or her tastes and kept the name: alla carbonara is, after all, an Italian (dialectal) name, and not French.

While I am no carbonara expert by any stretch, my impression is that this Frenchman's "carbonara" is similar to an American's "goulash" (meaning, sauteed ground beef, stewed tomatoes and elbow macaroni). Might be a loose interpretation of an Italian dish altered for the ease and economy of a French family.

aschie30 wrote:

Antonius wrote:Clearly, the French person you mention (or someone who taught him or her the dish) has adapted the Italian recipe to his or her tastes and kept the name: alla carbonara is, after all, an Italian (dialectal) name, and not French.

While I am no carbonara expert by any stretch, my impression is that this Frenchman's "carbonara" is similar to an American's "goulash" (meaning, sauteed ground beef, stewed tomatoes and elbow macaroni). Might be a loose interpretation of an Italian dish altered for the ease and economy of a French family.

Yes, I think that's more or less just what I was saying. Though in this case, the Frenchman's creation is to my mind rather more interesting and appealing than the American 'goulash' adaptation you mention.

A

Antonius wrote:

aschie30 wrote:

Antonius wrote:Clearly, the French person you mention (or someone who taught him or her the dish) has adapted the Italian recipe to his or her tastes and kept the name: alla carbonara is, after all, an Italian (dialectal) name, and not French.

While I am no carbonara expert by any stretch, my impression is that this Frenchman's "carbonara" is similar to an American's "goulash" (meaning, sauteed ground beef, stewed tomatoes and elbow macaroni). Might be a loose interpretation of an Italian dish altered for the ease and economy of a French family.

Yes, I think that's more or less just what I was saying. Though in this case, the Frenchman's creation is to my mind rather more interesting and appealing than the American 'goulash' adaptation you mention.

A

It sure does! I'll never understand how ground beef, stewed tomatoes and elbow macaroni became a substitute here for goulash. Must have been clever marketing.

Bill/SFNM wrote:I followed Signora Hazan's recipe with the exception of using guanciale instead of pancetta. But I did take 1/4 cup of the pasta water to temper the egg/cheese mixture as you suggested, poured the mixture into the drained pasta, then added the guanciale and it's rendered fat.

Bill,

I too made Signora Hazan's carbonara this evening using the Antonius technique*, though with bacon. The store where I shopped was out of pancetta and, with the driving wind and snow, I decided to go with what I had at home. I used Hazan's suggested 3-minute boil/blanch to leach out some of the smoky bacon flavor.

I've made carbonara a number of times over the years, but the tempering step resulted in my best effort to date.**



Enjoy,
Gary

*1/4 cup of the pasta water to temper the egg/cheese mixture
**No cream, but I scented the oil with garlic as per Hazan's recipe

Man, you guys are killin' me! I tried to make it the other day following the recipe in the link, and made the fatal mistake of using my cast-iron skillet. (Sparky: "It's OK, Mom - I like scrambled eggs)

Once our cholesterol levels are back down to normal, I'll try again....

Beautiful platter of pasta, Gary. Is that 1 or 2 pounds of pasta?

At the risk of being pummeled by the experts, I made some carbonara last week with fresh pasta. I know Signora Hazan and other purists are rigid in which sauces are allowed with dry pasta and which may be used with fresh pasta. But there is something about the toothsome texture of fresh pasta that makes carbonara even more pleasureful, decadent and self-indulgent. Am I going to hell for this?

Bill/SFNM

Bill/SFNM wrote:Beautiful platter of pasta, Gary. Is that 1 or 2 pounds of pasta?

Bill,

1-pound of pasta.

The other slightly sideways step I took, aside from the tempering step mentioned upthread, was mix eggs, cheese, pepper and parsley in a heavy heat retaining bowl, add the pasta, bacon mixture, mix, then transfer the finished dish to a serving bowl. It's my impression the heat retention properties of the heavy pottery bowl helped the egg/cheese incorporate smoothly.

I also, as you mention above, held back about 1/3 of the fat to account for the lesser amount of pasta.

Fresh pasta with carbonara sounds terrific, I'll remember for next time out.

Enjoy,
Gary

I'm still trying to find the link or post with this recipe and Antonius' egg-tempering instructions. Help. B/c a good heart-stopping carbonara sounds like just what I need to make for a Valentine's dinner in.

Wine recs. would be great, too.

crrush wrote:I'm still trying to find the link or post with this recipe and Antonius' egg-tempering instructions. Help. B/c a good heart-stopping carbonara sounds like just what I need to make for a Valentine's dinner in

Crrush,

Egg tempering is discussed earlier in this thread, the recipe is Marcella Hazan's and has not been posted. I will send you her recipe in PM and work on my adaptation for posting to the board.

Enjoy,
Gary

I had previously posted a link to the Hazan recipe in the Detroit Free Press, but it seems to be gone. Someone else has posted a copy of it here.

I probably won’t be adding too much to this discussion but I still thought I could add my Carbonara preparation to this thread.

I’m able to purchase Falorni (Antica Macelleria Falorni) guanciale at one of Stockholm’s markets. It’s not cheap, though.




The cost of this bit (at just under 1/3 of a pound) comes out to about 9 bucks. Falorni’s products are truly magical and I feel very lucky to have access to their incredible salamis and other cured products – despite the cost.

I picked up some artisanal spaghetti (made by the Pastai Gragnanesi cooperative) at the same market as well as a chunk of properly handled, 24-month Parmigiano-Reggiano.

Ingredients, left-right and top-bottom: Pecorino*, guanciale, garlic, black pepper, parmesan, parsley, egg and pasta.



My recipe is basically Marcella’s. First, I render some of the guanciale’s fat through a slow browning and add a peeled clove of garlic to the process.




When the guanciale begins to brown, I remove and discard the clove of garlic and add about ½ cup of white wine. Turn down the heat a little and wait for about half of the wine to evaporate. (I apologize for this picture – some trick of the camera makes the liquid look like dishwater instead of the luscious, porky nectar it really is…)



Meanwhile, add the pasta to plenty of salted, boiling water.



While the guanciale and pasta cook, grate the two cheeses and mix with the black pepper, egg and chopped parsley directly in the bowl that the pasta and pork will be added.



When the pasta is finished cooking, drain briefly and add quickly to the egg/cheese mixture. Toss and mix quickly to melt the cheese, warm the eggs and coat the pasta. Finally, add the browned guanciale/wine mixture and mix once more. You’re looking for the creamy texture that Antonious and others have described so well.



Wonderful food from wonderful ingredients!

* I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Antonius doesn't notice that this is not Pecorino Romano...

These are all great suggestions -- and luscious photos, too.

One personal ingredient that I've occasionally added (which I haven't noticed above) are one or two minced sun-dried tomatoes to add both color and piquancy to the mix w/o dominating any of the other flavors.