I've noticed some of you are doing noodles. Is this a ethnic tradition of some sort? Do you make them yourself?

Sorry for the lateness of this request, but I want to make (is it annual, often) plea to make your Thanksgiving a local Thanksgiving.

For advice and tips and sharing on how to make this happen, please come to the panel I will be on tomorrow, Sunday November 23 at the Family Farmed Expo at the Chicago Cultural Center, 77 E. Randolph. My show is at 1:30. Besides me, there's a bunch of other interesting stuff, including a Chef demo by Paul Kahan.

For foodstuffs, you have plenty of shopping options today. Green City is out and about near the Peggy Notebaert Nature Museum. Evanston is having a holiday market at Immanuel Lutheran Church, 616 Lake. Of course, the Family Farmed Expo has a big Expo of a farmer's market this weekend. Come for the discussion, leave with a root or two. The Downtown Farmstand run by the City, right across from the Cultural Center has an ever growing stock of local goods. Of course there's Cassie and her Green Grocer who always has all things local. For those in the other end of the Chicago world, there's the Geneva winter market.

Because of the New England origins of Thanksgiving, the dishes associated with the holiday dovetail quite nicely with our local ingredients, even now. After all, it does not take too much work to find that your cranberries come from Wisconsin. You can surely find local potatoes, both sweet and white. Add something apple to your meal because if you cannot find a local apple, you cannot find anything local--Caputo's has great Michigan apples at great prices. They have big Rome apples that can be baked for a non-pie dessert.

I strongly echo Tyrus and Cathy2's notion to find a way to use black walnuts in your meal. It's local, seasonal, and truly wonderful. Oriana, the Papple Lady, has 2/4's of the fixings of a fine holiday salad. Combine her Asian pears, with the walnuts, a good local cheese, maybe Bel Gioioso's American Grana, which can be had at Jewel for darn's sake and some arugula like Farmer Vicki still has. My wife wants to warn you all that the potency of the black walnuts means you should use less nuts per dish.

There's another nut to use. As we discussed last year, the American chestnuts from Michigan are better than about any chestnuts around. There's all sorts of ways to get them into your holiday meal. Chestnuts marry very well with Brussels sprouts, still very much in season. Those Brussels sprouts do not need to be cooked either. Mado's salad of shredded Brussel sprouts with a lemon vinaigrette is pretty much just that, easy to make and revelation.

A while back we purchased a pasta cooker-ish type of pot. I find it works pretty horrible for pasta, it contains not enough water, but on the other hand, it makes an excellent steamer. Steamed turnips lose a lot of bite and absorb a delicious amount of butter.

Don't be afraid to use the odd roots you may encounter. Celery root is quite versatile, it can be grated for a salad (classically, with a remoulade dressing), mashed or roasted. All of the roots, parsnips, rutabagas, parsley roots, can be mashed-up together. It's a good way to combine odds and ends. They can likewise be combined as "roasted root veg", just a bit of olive oil and herbs.

Let me know how else you can bring local food into your Thanksgiving gala.

Vital Information wrote:Let me know how else you can bring local food into your Thanksgiving gala.

I was very pleasantly surprised by my recent first-ever tasting of Michigan riesling from the Traverse City area. Expecting uber-sweet, one dimensional fermented grape juice, I was taken aback my how dry, acidic, and full of minerality this was. Definitely a food-friendly wine that would do nicely on the Thanksgiving table. I am not sure how available these dry rieslings are at Sam's, etc... but if not, it's a short and fun road trip for this weekend.

Kennyz wrote:I am not sure how available these dry rieslings are at Sam's, etc...

The answer, unfortunately, is "not very." Sam's local wine selection is really heavy on Illinois makers with a smattering of Southwest Michigan producers. Which is too bad because the best Michigan wine IMHO comes from much farther north along the coast.

Do you recall the maker? Here's a list from that area.

Damn, I mean thanks Kenny. (I meant to add some stuff about local drinks).

I'm a huge fan of the Mawby sparkling wines from Michigan. It's ideal Thanksgiving wine. You can find at Marion St. Cheese Market in Oak Park.

Speaking of the Leelaunu Peninsula, I happened to open a bottle of Black Star Farms pear brandy the other night. I've not loved their grappa, but I really liked this: very smooth with the necessary pear aroma. A nice postprandial holiday shot fer sure. Available at Binny's.

Finally, I have to always plug the Westernathon find of Greg and his Wild Blossom Meadery. The blanc de fleur is not the least bit cloying and good for Thanksgiving. Greg's at the Family Farmed Expo this weekend too.

Vital Information wrote:I'm a huge fan of the Mawby sparkling wines from Michigan. It's ideal Thanksgiving wine. You can find at Marion St. Cheese Market in Oak Park.

Mawby is great, I'm a huge fan. (I'm bringing a very special bottle to the LTH Holiday Party, BTW.) I've been told that they buy their grapes from California and produce the wine in Michigan.*

I believe Sam's carries the Mawby as well, but it's in the sparkling section. I think Pastoral in the Loop carries it as well.

*Edited to add: According to their website, Mawby wines are made from grapes grown on the Leelanau Peninsula, but the associated M.Lawrence wines are produced from non-Leelanau grapes, which, I'm told, are from California.

75% local is pretty good, right? Here's a combo of ingredients that will serve as a football-watching snack on Thanksgiving, paired perfectly with Three Floyds Alpha Klaus beer (an awesome, intensely hoppy seasonal porter):



- chestnuts (Hillside Farm, Michigan)
- The best honey ever (Prairie Fruits Farm, Illinois)
- butter (Organic Valley, Wisconsin)
- Truffle salt (oh well, I can't resist)

Cut an X in the flat end of each chestnut, then roast for 20 minutes at 425 degrees. Peel and slice, then melt plenty of butter in a pan with some honey, and sautee the sliced chestnuts until nicely glazed. Sprinkle truffle salt and put in a bowl to serve. Make more than you think you need - these will disappear in a matter of seconds.

razbry wrote:I've noticed some of you are doing noodles. Is this a ethnic tradition of some sort? Do you make them yourself?

Not unless you'd classify a Midwestern farmer as "ethnic." If you follow my link upthread, you'll see that this dish is pure starch - homemade egg noodles cooked in a broth until they make a thick gravy and served over mashed potatoes. They're very easy to make and, like mentioned above, you could forgo the beef and just make them with chicken stock. Either way, I feel there's nothing more comforting than a plate of turkey, mashed potatoes, some green beans and a ladle of noodles and gravy to go over the whole thing. Then clean plate with fork and go after the stuffing, more turkey, other side dishes and, what the heck, one more half ladle full of noodles over the whole thing. I really can't wait...

tyrus,

Yesterday I was at Penelope Bingham's talk on Thanksgiving. She mentioned in the early days, chicken pie was regularly present and very much loved part of the Thanksgiving tradition. She commented this dish no longer seems to be present on the Thanksgiving table. In the comments afterwards, I told them your family's tradition of serving a turkey pie later in the day after the Thanksgiving feast. She was pleased this was still recognized somewhere as part of the Thanksgiving tradition.

In early Thanksgiving accounts, there were mentions of other meats on the table. She offered this was because the turkey was only 8 pounds, thus other meats were needed to round out the meal.

Regards,

My Thanksgiving cooking always begins with making turkey stock. Because it's Thanksgiving after all, I like to make a really rich, dark broth, which I make of turkey wings (the right bone-meat ratio for me; and they're cheap!). I begin with roasting the turkey wings until they're golden:



I generally follow the Keller/Bouchon method of stock-making, which is to simmer the meat alone first, skimming religiously for about 40 minutes-1 hour in 4 quarts water. After that, I dump about 2 quarts of ice into the stock, which forces any additional meat impurities to the top to be skimmed off. After it's brought back up to a very gentle simmer, the vegetables go in (I'm stingy about aromatics -- 2 medium sized carrots, 2 medium onions, 2 smallish celery ribs and a few parsley stems). After two more hours of very gentle simmering, I strained the stock through a cheesecloth-lined mesh sieve and got this:


Finished stock, pre-skimming

I freezed it in quart batches. Any stock not used for Thanksgiving will be used as a base for a French Onion soup.

I made a pre Thanksgiving Thanksgiving dinner yesterday for some friends. One of our turkeys was the Trader Joe's pre-brined bird. This was a fresh bird and $1.79/lb. Just shy of 18 lbs.

It was outstanding. As good as the kisher bord from J&M last year, but without the feathers.

I have one that's a pound larger in my fridge for Thursday. I got the largest two they had, the guy at TJ's said they were supposed to get some 20#'s but he hadn't seen any.

Last year I did the TJ pre-brined bird and it was quite good. This year I got one of those Ho-Ka birds, and will try the pre-salt trick. I do it on the grill/smoker so I cut out the back and make some last-minute broth out of it while the bird is cooking. Today (Sun) I am making veg. stock, roasting 2 chickens so I can get some drippings to make gravy from, and making stock from their bones, and making the cranberry sauce.

We may have one vegetarian attending, so I'm keeping some veg stock as veg, instead of using it all to make the chicken bone stock. If she does come, I'll make the dressing with veg instead of bird stock, and do something with mushrooms for her as a main dish, and also keep some of the brussels out of the pancetta.

Planned dishes are

goat cheese fig jam crostini (chow.com)
spinach or artichoke dip (friend bringing)

green beans (just steamed)
braised brussels sprouts w/pancetta
white bread dressing (w/sage and onions)
turkey (smoked/grilled)
sweet potato w/ginger and orange (NY Times)
cranberry orange sauce

pumpkin and pecan pies (friends bringing)

sweet potato w/ginger and orange (NY Times)

What's the recipe? Is there a link? I've been using orange with sweet potatoes the last couple of years and really like it.

This thread has been great to read. I finalized my menu tonight-I'm just having 13 people.

-Arugula Salad with avocado, dried cherries, roasted salted pecans, maytag blue cheese and homemade balsamic vinaigrette
-Brined Turkey
-Stuffing with granny smith apples, sausage, bacon, carrots, mushrooms, onions, garlic shallots and celery
-Mashed potato casserole (Mom is bringing it-she mashes potatoes with sour cream and cream cheese)
-Sweet potato casserole (again, Mom is bringing it-it's the one with the brown sugar/pecan streusel on top)
-Haricot Verts with sauteed onions
-American Corn Pudding (recipe follows-really delish)
-Homemade Cranberries-I put mine through the food mill so that we don't have any skins
-Homemade white and wheat rolls
-Julia Child's Pumpkin Pie (recipe up thread)
and
-Rustic Apple Tart from the last episode of Top Chef. I made a test recipe tonight and it is delicious. The chopped crystalized ginger and lemon really make the tart taste fresh. I was looking for a new dessert-and not just a traditional apple pie. This really fits the bill.

I got this from another food board I read:

American Indian Corn Pudding
4 eggs
1/2 c. butter
2/3 c. flour
2 c. milk
2 tsp. salt
1 tsp. pepper
4 c. corn (fresh or canned)

Preheat oven to 350 degrees. Separate eggs. Beat whites until stiff, not dry. Melt butter in medium sized pan. Stir flour in quickly over medium heat until smooth paste forms. Stir paste constantly while adding milk and allow mixture to boil. Lower heat, add egg yolks, salt, pepper and corn. Mix. Turn off heat. Fold in egg whites with rubber spatula. Grease baking dish with butter and pour in the mixture. Bake 35 minutes or until it is lightly browned. Serves 12

Rustic Apple Tart from Top Chef

Flaky Pie Crust:
2 cups all purpose flour
2 sticks (8oz) chilled butter, cut into 1/2 inch cubes
1/3 cup water
1 tsp salt
1 T sugar

Apple Filling:
4 granny smith apples, peeled and dices
4 fiji apples, peeled and diced
2 T butter
pinch salt1/4 cup brown sugar
1/4 cup granulated sugar
1/4 tsp nutmeg
1/2 tsp cinnamon1 lemon
2 T crystallized ginger, chopped
2 T corn starch
1 tsp vanilla
1/4 cup water

Apple Cider Reduction:
1 qt apple cider
4 bags ginger peach tea (herbal)
2 inches ginger root, peeled and thinly sliced
2 T brown sugar


Flaky Pie Crust:
1. Combine water, salt, and sugar in measuring cup.
2. Stir and put cup in fridge for at least 15 min. (to chill water and to dissolve sugar and salt)
3. Chill mixing bowl and paddle if possible.
4. Combine flour and butter pieces in mixing bow.
5. On medium speed, cut butter into flour till butter pieces are the size of chickpeas.
6. With the mixer running, pour the water into the butter mixture.
7. Mix till the dough comes together.
8. Separate dough into 4 discs.
9. Wrap each will film and chill.

Apple Filling:
1. In large skillet, melt 2 T butter.
2. Sauté apples for 1 min.
3. Add in salt, sugars, nutmeg, and cinnamon.
4. Stir in lemon juice and crystallized ginger.
5. Continue to cook on medium heat.
6. In a small bowl, combine water, cornstarch, and vanilla.
7. Quickly stir mixture into apples.
8. Bring to a boil and reduce heat to a simmer.
9. Adjust seasoning if desired.
10. Let cool.

Pie:

1. Roll each pastry disc out to a 6 inch round.
2. Put 1/4 apple mixture in the center and fold 2 inches of dough, makingpleats, around the filling leaving the center open.
3. Brush each tart with an egg wash, 1 egg and 2 T water.
4. Sprinkle with cinnamon sugar, equal parts granulated sugar and brown sugaror cinnamon.
5. Bake at 375 degrees or till the crust is golden brown and the apples arebubbly.
6. Serve warm with apple cider reduction.

Apple Cider Reduction:
1. Combine all ingredients.
2. Reduce to 3/4 -1 cup.
3. Chill and serve with apple pie and a wedge of cheddar or bleu cheese.

Diane wrote:-Stuffing with granny smith apples, sausage, bacon, carrots, mushrooms, onions, garlic shallots and celery

Great menu! I like the sound of the dressing best though. Apple/sausage combos just really do it for me.

Mike G wrote:

Leek wrote:sweet potato w/ginger and orange (NY Times)

What's the recipe? Is there a link? I've been using orange with sweet potatoes the last couple of years and really like it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/dining/192mrex.html

Cathy2 wrote:tyrus,

Yesterday I was at Penelope Bingham's talk on Thanksgiving. She mentioned in the early days, chicken pie was regularly present and very much loved part of the Thanksgiving tradition. She commented this dish no longer seems to be present on the Thanksgiving table. In the comments afterwards, I told them your family's tradition of serving a turkey pie later in the day after the Thanksgiving feast. She was pleased this was still recognized somewhere as part of the Thanksgiving tradition.

In early Thanksgiving accounts, there were mentions of other meats on the table. She offered this was because the turkey was only 8 pounds, thus other meats were needed to round out the meal.

Regards,

I guess I never thought of it as a "turkey pie" but that's basically what it is (minus any vegetables that may be in a pie). Many members of the family would like to skip right to the second meal just for this dish.

As for other meats, my Grandmother would always have a ham as well. The one year I documented the meal, I noted that we had a 18 lb turkey, 8 lb turkey breast, and 6 lb boneless ham (as well as the 1-2 lb "swiss steak" that was used to make the broth for the noodles) that fed around 15-20 over the course of two days. My Grandmother was raised during the depression and grew up on the farm. She lived in the Chicago area for a few years in the late 60's-early 70's and picked up a few tricks from the Hispanic ladies she worked with at Motorola. So, after the main meal, she would shred the turkey for the turkey and biscuits dish and save a little turkey for turkey salad. The ham was ground up the next day to make ham salad and her "hillbilly tacos." These are highly addictive - ground ham (just an old fashioned hand grinder), mixed with hash brown potatoes with onion and bell pepper. She would mix in some taco seasoning and taco sauce then spoon the mixture into hard taco shells wrapped in foil and bake in the oven for about 20-30 minutes. Serve with American cheese slices, leaves of iceberg lettuce and taco sauce (this is Central IL and there are no Hispanic food choices to be had). We still make these and are the primary reason why there's a hand grinder in my kitchen cabinet.

As you can imagine, Thanksgiving was all about food, all day for two days. It was a tremendous amount of work and was successful every year. I'm hoping this year we can do it some justice.

Great thread as usual LTH....

Leek, you are becoming the Thanksgiving recipe fairy!

Our menu this year consists of :

Baked Salami Appetizer (apparently this is something my grandma used to make and my aunt wants to reminisce - I'll let you know how it is)
Salad
Green beans, two ways: with lemon and almond, with leek and dill
Rice Noodle Casserole
Sweet potatoes, plain! Yummyyy
Cranberry Sauce
Rosemary Roasted Turkey (with onion gravy)
Stuffing (to be determined, my aunt's making it so we don't know what kind it is!)

Dessert:
Pumpkin Pie
Apple Crisp
Brownies
Fruit

My mom nixed last year's meatballs and my soup idea since we're going buffet style. I'll report back with photos after the big day!

I'm curious to know if any of you are familiar with the low-and-slow turkey roasting recipe in "The Cook's Bible" by Christopher Kimball (of Cook's Illustrated fame). For the small turkey that I have (a fresh HoKa, 11.6 lbs), it would involve:

- heating oven to 350 F
- roasting turkey for 1 hr breast side down
- reducing heat to 200 F
- roasting for 2 hrs
- turning turkey breast side up
- roasting for 2 hrs, 45 minutes, or until thighs reach 160-170 F internal temperature
- remove bird from oven
- increase oven temperature to 400 F
- remove foil from turkey
- roast turkey 10 minutes or until thigh temperature reaches 170-175 F
- remove turkey to rest at 20 minutes before carving

The result is described as being so moist, juicy, flavorful, and toothsome that brining is not only not necessary, but not advisable.

Hi,

I have used that method with smaller birds like yours with success. I have also done it with jumbos, though it was difficult to orchestrate all those moves. A large turkey really wants to be flipped once. Anything more is bordering on scary moments as turkey almost flies across the room.

Regards,

I've never done this with a turkey, but I've done something similar with a chicken: Joy of Cooking calls it "turned roasted chicken" where you roast it on its side and then turn it and roast it on its other side, and then breast-side up. I always had good results except for one thing: bits of skin tend to stick to the pan and peel off, resulting in a somewhat unsightly bird (though more skin for the cook to eat when nobody's looking ) It's also not very easy to do with a 3-lb chicken even with tongs and silicone potholders (which I find crucial for this task.)

I've often fantasized about creating a turkey armature that would allow me to cut the breast off at the end of the ribs, reassemble the bird, cook it whole and remove the breast when it's at the optimal temperature, and then reassemble for presentation, which is really what needs to be done.

Most methods of sheilding the breast from the heat don't really seem to work.

With a brined turkey, cooking it breast down for the first half and breast up for the second seems to result fine in a bird that's 1) Rockwell-browned, 2) unmarked by the rack, and 3) juicy throughout. Turning it isn't exactly simple, but it's not hard, especially as a two-person job.

Hi,

Cook's Illustrated now suggests using aluminum foil on the rack with holes punched in to allow the juices to flow. The foil is sprayed with vegetable oil before the turkey is installed. I often remember this after the turkey is in the oven.

For the large turkeys, I do as Mike said: back up with a high temperature and breast up with a lower temperature. You get a nice crispy tail.

BTW - has anybody seen raw uncooked turkey tails in the grocery store? I see plenty of smoked, but not raw. A friend saw them once, she roasted them with the bird to save the combat over THE tail. Turkey tail is very popular in my house, too.

Regards,

Great thread.

Since my GF doesn't like the traditional green bean casserole, I had to get creative, well not really.

CHEESE...YES! That makes it all taste good! At least that's what some people think; ie: Kids..picky people, cheeseheads, etc

So I made a cheesy green bean casserole. The recipe is by eye, just add what you feel is right. You just need to make the cheese sauce and then pour it over some green beans and bake. I like firm green beans, not canned, so some blanched fresh or Amy's frozen Organic green beans form Costco will do nicely.

To make the cheese sauce on the stove top, use medium-hight heat and stir often in a medium size sauce pan.
Firstly, you can use a soup as a base, I use Campbell's cheese soup.
I then add a dollop or two of sour cream.
I also add some shredded cheddar and smoked cheddar. The smoked cheddar adds a nice full flavor.
You can also add some Velveeta if you'd like, cheese purists may want to skip this part and add more regular cheese
I keep adding milk little by little to make the sauce the right consistency, not too thin or thick. Keep stirring until it's smooth. You could also try heavy cream.
As it's cooking, I like to add some dill, this gives the cheese sauce a nice tang.
Near the end, I take cheddar cheese Durkee fried onions and mix some in the sauce until they're a little soft.

After the sauce if done, I take the sauce & poor it over the green beans, put some more fried onions on top and bake it for a while. Just follow a traditional recipe for temp and time.

Sounds like cardiologists nightmare, but it tastes soooooooo good!

I'm making this stuffing and I'm not sure where to buy jarred peeled roasted chestnuts. Shop & Save? Grand Assi? Super H? I assume they're dry, not in liquid like water chestnuts?

abe_froeman wrote:I'm making this stuffing and I'm not sure where to buy jarred peeled roasted chestnuts. Shop & Save? Grand Assi? Super H? I assume they're dry, not in liquid like water chestnuts?

If you want to save yourself some time and likely some money, then consider buying chestnuts to peel and simmer yourself. There was a thread on peeling chestnuts last year. I took some pictures, then made a youtube.com film clip of my Mother peeling chestnuts. Once peeled, then simmer the chestnuts in a frying pan covered with salted water or chicken stock until tender.

You will save yourself the thankless chore of searching high and low for those jarred chestnuts and they will very likely taste better.

Just in case this is not obvious: these are not water chestnuts. You can find these chestnuts in Jewel and other green grocers at this time of year. Just tell them you want the chestnuts for stuffing.

Regards,

The main point of the Cook's Bible approach isn't so much the turkey-flipping as the long, slow cooking. The original recipe, from Kimball's mother, called for cooking the bird overnight at 200 F. He only modified the recipe to mollify some USDA food safety police.

I have a cheap roasting pan and no rack (hey, what can I say, I'm saving up*), so my "rack" will probably consist of carrots and celery stalks, which shouldn't cause a problem with sticking and skin tearing.

*Speaking of roasting pans and racks, someday when I can afford nice ones, should I go with nonstick or not? I see more nonstick ones in the store, but Someone Here In The House has a bad habit of using the wrong utensils on nonstick pans (I keep buying the right utensils, Someone keeps not using them, sigh...), and I hate to spend $100+ on something that won't last very long.

Katie wrote:He only modified the recipe to mollify some USDA food safety police.

Oh, bah! If your food is in the danger zone for too long, you may get so sick you will wish you were dead. Running to a toilet wondering which end to stick in first is no picnic. Of course, the proper technique is to sit and hold a garbage can to your head.

Now onto something less revolting ....

I have stopped using my roasting pan for my turkey. I use instead my two-part broiler pan with the top removed. I have admittedly the cheapest rack bought long ago from the hardware store for less than $10. My roasting set up exposes the maximum surface area, while the traditional roasting pan always has some area covered. Yes, the grease goes all over the oven. It went all over the oven when I used the roasting pan. When everyone has left, I flip on the self-cleaning mode and close the door to the kitchen.

Regards,

abe_froeman wrote:I'm making this stuffing and I'm not sure where to buy jarred peeled roasted chestnuts. Shop & Save? Grand Assi? Super H? I assume they're dry, not in liquid like water chestnuts?

In prior years, Trader Joe's has had jarred peeled chestnuts around holiday time. There are also vacuum-packed dry peeled chestnuts that I've seen at various stores even the big chains (Jewel, Dominick's). You should also be able to find them at Whole Foods. (And, yes, they're dry, not in liquid like water chestnuts.)