eat me, kenny shopsin

i havent read 'eat me', by the great philosopher/cook, kenny shopsin yet, but i anticipate a great read. the book was released earlier this year. kenny is the subject of one of my all time favorite movies, 'i like killing flies', a doc. about this vulgar greenwich village restaurant owner. (edited to say he's since moved to the essex market on the lower east side). partly through the attentions of calvin trillin, kenny has become infamous for his 900+ menu cranked out in a kitchen the size of a closet. not to mention the goofy names of some of his dishes ('blisters on my sister', fried eggs over tortilla and beans, for example). mostly, he has earned infamy for his dislike of customers and his long list of do's and don'ts when you 'dare' to enter his joint.

SHOPSIN'S RULES:
- No cell phone use
- One meal per person minimum (everyone's got to
eat)
- No smoking
- Limit four people per group
On that last point, the menu has something
additional to add (page 4):
Party of Five
you could put a chair at the end
or push the tables together
but dont bother
This banged-up little restaurant
where you would expect no rules at all
has a firm policy against seating
parties of five
And you know you are a party of five
It doesn't matter if one of you
offers to leave or if
you say you could split into
a party of three and a party of two
or if the five of you come back tomorrow
in Richard Nixon masks and try to pretend
that you don't know each other
It won't work: You're a party of five
even if you're a beloved regular

Ive never heard of this guy, but I like him immediately. I love the rules. especially the no cell phones, no smoking, and the everyone must eat a meal rules.

I remember Trillin's article on this place - it's in one of the books. I'll have to get it again and read them both side-by-side.

For some enjoyable reading, Shopsin's menu:
http://shopsins.com/shopsiteyellow/%20shopsiemenu2.pdf

thanks michael, i meant to throw the menu up there in my post, but forgot. i'm waiting on a library copy, which is why i havent read his book yet. but i suspect i'll need to own it at some point. shopsin's general store moved a few years ago from greenwich to the essex market, on the lower east side. i just checked the website to see if the menu looks the same. as far as i can tell, it's identical. i havent eaten there, but won't miss it on my next new york trip. justjoan

justjoan wrote:thanks michael, i meant to throw the menu up there in my post, but forgot. i'm waiting on a library copy, which is why i havent read his book yet. but i suspect i'll need to own it at some point. shopsin's general store moved a few years ago from greenwich to the essex market, on the lower east side. i just checked the website to see if the menu looks the same. as far as i can tell, it's identical. i havent eaten there, but won't miss it on my next new york trip. justjoan

Has anyone actually eaten at Shopsin's in Essex Market? I dropped by with a friend when I was in NYC in October and there was really no sign of a restaurant. We saw Kenny leaning against a counter, the place looked closed, we said "are you closed?" He said "yes."

Now I understand that he may well not have been closed and that an answer like that should probably have been expected, but there just didn't seem to be any signs of a place where anyone at all would sit down at eat. Is there such at the Essex Market location?

It was not a major loss, as I had a great snack at Prosperity Dumpling as well as gelato from Il Laboratorio del Gelato that afternoon... but I too loved "I Like Killing Flies" and the Trillin write-ups, and wouldn't have minded patronizing Shopsin's.

i got the book for christmas, having never heard of this guy before, and thoroughly enjoyed it. so much so, in fact, that i did a blog entry about it:

me blogging about kenny shopsin

it's a really great book.

elakin, your blog post captures the essence of kenny's philosophy. and you/he touch on one of my pet peeves about food websites- people asking others what to order. i'll let kenny answer:

What's the best thing on the menu?"
When I read that, I think: Why would you give a shit what the best thing on the menu is? Maybe you don't like the best thing on the menu. Maybe the so-called best thing is deep-fried yak brains, and maybe, just maybe, deep-fried yak brains don't appeal to you. Why don't you just order what sounds good to you? Well, I already know the answer. It is because people are afraid of being mediocre, of being ordinary

.
justjoan

First time I heard of the guy, and guess I got to give him credit for staying true to himself, but he sure sounds like a total prick (which, I'm guessing is the "schtick," even if it's not really a schtick at all). Is his food good, at least?

Try as I might, I just can't join in on the love-fest for Kenny Shopsin and his book, "Eat me".

First off, his menu, attitude, language, etc. I'm pretty sure I get it. In fact, I got it somewhere around page 3. To me, it's vaguely charming but mostly childish and grating. One thing it isn't though is complicated. It certainly doesn't need an entire book to explain the finer nuances of.

Which leads me (somewhat) to my other gripe. Anyone picking this book up to use as a cookbook had better be sorely disappointed very quickly. Last Saturday, my kids were hungry for pancakes. "Great!", I thought, "Kenny Shopsin is known for pancakes!" So, I looked up his pancake recipe only to find an explanation* saying that he doesn't make pancakes from scratch anymore and a suggestion to simply use whatever mix you like. From there, you can make any number of his whimsical "recipies" (mostly consisting of adding chocolate, coconut, bananas, etc. to the mix and frying). His recipe for crepes? Crepes, for Kenny Shopsin, are industrial flour tortillas dipped in sweetened egg wash and fried.

He claims to have an array of homemade stocks (frozen in serving-sized portions and thawed per order in a microwave) and other ingredients on hand for making the thousands of menu choices he has. And, while I certainly cannot discredit this, it just doesn't jive for me that a man serving egg-washed tortillas as crepes would honestly go to too much trouble to make 5, 6 or 7 stocks to have on hand.

He's got some interesting and hard-earned views on the realities of running a restaurant and the book's layout is fun and fresh. However, beyond that (and any sort of personal relationship to the actual restaurant one may have) I just don't see much use for this book nor the attention he seems to get. There are a few decent tips in the book but honestly nothing the average LTHer isn't already doing at home (and probably refuses to do).

* I completely buy his explanation, though, as it's the same reason I'm always trying new pancake recipies. Good homemade pancakes depend on some many factors that getting a tried-and-true recipe right every time is really, really tough (that is, if you not G Wiv...). Kenny gives up (and goes industrial), I keep trying. I don't blame the guy as I'm not running a restaurant but just feeding my kids. However, I'm not too wild about his "advice". And I definately don't want to pay for "his" pancakes at his restaurant. In fact, the vast majority of what I've read in the book ensures that I'd never submit to his list of rules in order to eat there. "Eat me" undoubtedly sums up Kenny Shopsin's feelings to this.

My initial reaction to the buzz about the book was, "How refreshing! How unpretentious! What a no-nonsense guy!" But every new bit of info fleshed out the picture a little more, and it didn't get any prettier. In the end it all seemed to be about a man so coarse, rude, and unappealing that he's nearly a caricature. You get the feeling you've seen him, ladle in hand, stogie in mouth, apron stained and greasy, in one too many old movies about military mess halls.

As for eating in a restaurant run by a guy like that, I probably wouldn't risk it. After all, there's the MARM quotient to consider. MARM (short for "malice-anxiety-resentment morsel"--also see "megaMARM" and "gigaMARM") is defined as "a standard for measuring the psychic toxins absorbed by food cooked in a kitchen whose atmosphere has been poisoned by the chef, often a celebrity chef. Much like a rechargeable battery, every food has the potential to accumulate and store these contaminants, which it then releases into the bloodstream of the unsuspecting eater."

In other words, it would take a pretty desperate situation to get me to eat at Shopsin's. Maybe if I had to choose between it and, oh, I don't know, molecular gastronomy or something...

you guys obviously didn't read the whole book. the first couple chapters do go overboard a bit on the rudeness and the rules and such, but as you get more into it, you find that kenny actually really does love people--cooking for them, hosting them, talking with them, and being a part of their lives.

really, he does. it's in there. read.

the psychic toxins absorbed by food cooked in a kitchen whose atmosphere has been poisoned by the chef

again, barry, it's clear you didn't read. from pg. 143-144.

When I cook, I always want to know who it is I am cooking for. This is easy in the space I'm in now because I can see everyone in my restaurant from where I'm cooking. It was the same way in the original restaurant. But even in the second space, where I couldn't see into the dining room from the kitchen, I usually knew who the food was for just by what was ordered.....When I know who it is I'm cooking for, I have that person in my mind during the entire process. And in subtle or not so subtle ways, the results will be different from the way I make the same thing for someone else.

I can trace the connection I have with my customers back to the pleasure I gained running the grocery store. Even when I was just selling a few basic cooked foods, I still had an essential feeding type of relationship with almost all my customers.....

I think the difference between art and craft is that in craft you care what the person consuming your product thinks.....Most of what I make is the result of a true cooperative effort between what I want to cook and what my customers want to eat.

As for the criticisms of the guy's technique (pancake mix, frozen products, etc) he's not trying to be high-end food. He's running a lowbrow diner that caters to regulars.

It might be easy to just dismiss the guy as a cranky curmudgeon, but it's inaccurate. If you read the book, you'll discover that shopsin actually feels strong affection--love, even--for his customers, and brings a lot of positive energy to the process of making and cooking food.

I should make clear that I not only didn't read the whole book, I didn't read any of the book. Publicity campaigns can have unanticipated effects, and in my case, the blitz accompanying the book's release helped guarantee I'd be uninclined to read it. If that reflects a mistaken or distorted understanding of the book's actual contents, if I've done Mr. Shopsin an injustice by drawing the conclusions I have, it's regrettable. But I can't recall coming across a single thing in the whole campaign, including descriptions of Shopsin's TV appearances, etc., that aimed to counter the overall negative impression. In fact, the curmudgeon angle was clearly intended as the hook, the sales gimmick. In my case, it backfired.

What you quote above, from the book, certainly makes him more empathetic. Does he explain just what the hell the problem is with parties of five being split into three and two? It doesn't make sense to me. Is a party of six okay, split three-three?

yeah, binko, he explains the four-top rule in the book.

I should make clear that I not only didn't read the whole book, I didn't read any of the book.

yeah, that was already quite clear, barry. you should try to avoid forming opinions based on publicity blitzes. it's generally not a great idea.

what i'm wondering is...if you're so disinclined to read the book and have formed such a negative opinion about the guy based on the publicity campaign, why are you participating in this topic?

here's a bit more:

from page 20:

I enjoy cooking and giving what I can to my customers, and, in turn, my customers don't just enjoy giving me money, they enjoy receiving what I have given them. Once we've established a rapport, we're absolute equals in my restaurant. But I guess I shouldn't expect newcomers to understand this. In all fairness, they're right and I'm the asshole, because my way is hardly the traditional you-give-me-money-I-give-you-a-bagel. I want a relationship.

and here's explanation of the limit of four people per group rule:

The party-of-four rule is something that developed in the original space. Implementing the rule was my way of controlling my wife, Eve. When we would start to get too busy, I used to tell her to quit letting people in. But Eve had an obsession with making people happy and when customers came in, no matter how slammed she could see I was, she just kept letting them in. She would pack the place, and it didn't matter how many times I told her not to, I'd still find myself back there like an automaton on an assembly line trying to get the food out. I simply couldn't accomodate large parties on a production level. The kitchen was tiny and I had so few burners that I couldn't cook that many dishes and get them all to the table at the same time or even around the same time. I finally got tired of having to rely on Eve to control the pace of the restaurant, so I just made it a rule.

When we kick out a large party, the people will almost always ask if they can split up into two tables. But it's still the same thing, and our answer is still no. They're all still going to order at the same time and they're all going to want their food at the same time. It's hard on me. I don't want to do it.

Besides, the real reason for the rule is that large parties are no fun. They come into the restaurant, and they're an entity unto themselves. When there are more than four people to a party--whether they are seated at one table or divided between two--they don't interact with other customers. They're not a part of what is going on in the restaurant. Let them have their powwow somewhere else. I don't want them here.

oh, and just so no one gets the wrong impression--i'm not shilling for this guy. you're all entitled to dislike him or whatever...your choice, of course. i'm just seeing a lot of conclusions being formed on incorrect or incomplete information, and trying to rectify that.

I think this is where I get off. But in conclusion:

1. Nothing I said suggested, or was meant to suggest, that I had read the book. Quite the contrary: I was talking about why I wasn't tempted to read it, despite the (doubtless quite expensive) campaign to persuade me otherwise. My comments concerned the Eat Me publicity juggernaut, and my reaction to it.

2. I was motivated to join the discussion because this particular publicity onslaught had seemed so supercharged, while at the same time delivering what struck me as an unappealing, even unsavory message. As such, it caught my attention more than the usual book push. (Incidentally, with even the title obviously meant to shock, I'm not certain Mr. Shopsin needs the kid-glove treatment from us.) The buzz around this book wasn't even leavened with the sense of humor that accompanied Kitchen Confidential, for example.

3. As for the advice on how to go about forming my opinions, are you trying to tell me that not everything they say in the commercials is true?!! Dang--how did I get so old and stay so dumb?!!

wow, I'm not sure if this guy is my philosophical hero or the person I'm afraid to become. while the 900 item menu seems to be the sign of a masochist, it appears to be mostly variations on his meat & 3 section w/ the standard breakfast menu and a well stocked dry pantry full of little cans. Personally, I would never want to have to read those tickets or do any sort of inventory there.

thanks for the heads up on the book and video, I'll be sure to look for both.
here's a youtube clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUUPEZjRXvU

and a perceptive review of the movie:
http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/film_ ... sp?ID=2393

and Barry, I'm sorry you didn't get a contract w/ Knopf and their massive PR dept. The world truly needs a send up of Waverly Root.

i somehow managed to miss the "expensive, supercharged onslaught of publicity juggernaut" that this book received. hmmm. not sure how.

and just ftr, i wasn't advocating treating shopsin with "kid gloves". what i've been saying is that if one just skims the surface, they run the risk of missing a whole bunch of good stuff.

of course, one is still entitled to choose to skim the surface. or even skim the publicity campaign. but imo, you're missing out.

I do appreciate your presentation of the other side, elakin, and taking the time to quote from the book to explain some of the odder "rules."

Eat Me wrote:But Eve had an obsession with making people happy and when customers came in, no matter how slammed she could see I was, she just kept letting them in. She would pack the place, and it didn't matter how many times I told her not to, I'd still find myself back there like an automaton on an assembly line trying to get the food out. I simply couldn't accomodate large parties on a production level. The kitchen was tiny and I had so few burners that I couldn't cook that many dishes and get them all to the table at the same time or even around the same time. I finally got tired of having to rely on Eve to control the pace of the restaurant, so I just made it a rule.

I gather from this passage that Eve obviously did not have an "obsession" with making Ken happy.

aschie: eve was kenny's wife and soulmate, it appeared from the movie. she died before the film was finished.
barry foy: i hope no one dismisses your books on a public forum without reading them first. i dont know where this 'publicity blitz' came from; i never saw any of it. it's a shame you let it affect you so negatively. justjoan

justjoan wrote:aschie: eve was kenny's wife and soulmate, it appeared from the movie. she died before the film was finished.

joan - yes I know she was his wife (can't comment on the soulmate part). It was not meant to be a slight to Eve, but rather a joke aimed at the inherent inconsistency in Ken's comments that Eve had an "obsession" with making people happy but then seemed to drive him mad by by seating too many people to his annoyance and despite his protests.

i take it you've never been married?

elakin wrote:i take it you've never been married?

Nope, never been married. If you mean that it's typical of married folk, I'll have to take your word for it.

aschie30 wrote:

elakin wrote:i take it you've never been married?

Nope, never been married. If you mean that it's typical of married folk, I'll have to take your word for it.

to bring it full circle, the definition
from Ambrose Bierce's 1911 Devil's Dictionary:

Love
A temporary insanity curable by marriage.

That's almost full circle, DK, but not quite: Here's a definition of love from a different reference book, one that's a little more food-oriented and that happens--just happens--to also contain the entry for "MARM":

LOVE: The universal nutrient, adaptable to all human cuisines. This affordable, easy-to-use substance enhances the nutritional value of virtually any dish. Dissolved easily in water, wine, milk, oil, gravy, mayonnaise (store-bought or homemade), soy sauce, lard, ghee, or even Vegemite, it can be added either during or after food preparation and has an extremely long shelf life. Significantly, love's beneficial effects operate without regard to the skill level of the cook; in fact, many people look back fondly on dishes--sometimes whole meals--in which love was the only appealing or even palatable ingredient. Best of all, love does not stain saucepans or kitchen countertops.

That's full circle.

Received my copy yesterday. From my immediate perusal I'm reminded of Amy Sedaris's hostess book. I really dig the design. From reading through this thread, I'm betting I'll resonate with Shopsin's philosophy. Loving some customers AND being by turn irritated and exasperated by them aren't mutually exclusive states.

I've seen the documentary before receiving the book. I think that anyone who hasn't seen the movie would be more hard-pressed to understand the book, let alone like it. Personally, I think Kenny Shopsin is entertaining. I've never eaten at his restaurant but would do so if I had the chance in NY, if only because I'm fascinated by the idea of his mac'n'cheese pancakes. I'm not sure how I would like him if I were to interact with him regularly, but I enjoyed the documentary about him and "Eat Me". As a matter of fact, I tried out one of his recipes (Patsy's Cashew Chicken); it was super easy and quite delicious for an everyday meal.