LTH Relationship Advice

Dear LTH Forum,

I never thought it would happen to me.

I've somehow ended up meeting a girl who is a vegetarian of the no-fish-either variety. I have no idea how this will work out in the long term but in the short term, she's coming over for dinner on Sunday and I'm looking for entree advice. I was thinking a Thai or Indian curry of some sort. I do have a Bayless cookbook that has a very good potato & roasted chile taco recipe but that seems a bit too casual.

Any advice on the menu or medium-term strategies in general ??

I've been there.... my advice is RUN... Seriously, it never worked out. I got in the habit of bringing first dates to Spoon Thai to see if we had any sort of a future. If they hated it, there wasn't much hope of dining out together and I didn't see the point.

There are plenty of delicious vegetarian Ethiopian dishes, like lentil stews or vegetable stews. You'll want to make sure she's not a vegan though 'cause Ethiopian recipes do tend to use a spiced clarified butter called Niter Kebbeh quite a bit and that won't fly with a vegan.

haha, Stagger has the best idea though

I've been there too and it worked out, well it didn't work out overall but she didn't have a problem with my carnivore tendencies. Best test - take her to Kuma's. Order the Kuma burger medium rare. If she can sit next to you while you eat a bloody burger topped with bacon, egg, and cheese there's a slight possibility it might work out.

There's always pasta, which is infinitely variable in both sauces and types and you can make your own pasta if so inclined. Pair it with a nice sald to start.

On to the relationship part. When I met my wife 8 years ago she was not a vegetarian, but had been for a while during grade school. About 4 or 5 years ago, due to some health issues she decided to become vegetarian again. This was definitely challenging to both of us. Both of you have to be open minded enough to accept the other's viewpoint and not nag each other for your respective eating choices. Luckily my wife is a trained chef, a great cook and has no problems cooking meat for me. I'd say over the past two years I've taken to eating way more vegetarian meals and actually enjoying them, but have no intention or desire to give up eating meat/fish. While the wife has no plans to come to the other side either, she's fairly flexible when it comes to dining out with the attitude of "don't worry, I'll find something to eat." I tend to avoid certain restaurants and set those aside to visit with fellow carnivores.

It's not always easy, especially when you mix in friends, family and children, but you can make it work if you both keep an open mind. Good luck. Now if you said vegan, I'd say RUN.

this place:

Uru-Swati
2629 W Devon Ave
Chicago, IL 60659
(773) 262-5280

viewtopic.php?p=216473#p216473

don't let ideologies come between love

My gut reaction is in line with Stagger's, but the diplomat in me guides me to recommend Marcella Hazan's cookbooks for good vegetarian pastas (try Pasta a la Norma, never met a girl what didn't love eggplant, basil, and ricotta salata), and if she can eat eggs, you should be able to make frittatas, quiches, and huevos rancheros with delicious homemade salsas until the cows come home. I have to do a lot of cooking for a veg sister-in-law and so have these in my standing repertoire.

pizano345 wrote:I've been there too and it worked out, well it didn't work out overall but she didn't have a problem with my carnivore tendencies. Best test - take her to Kuma's. Order the Kuma burger medium rare. If she can sit next to you while you eat a bloody burger topped with bacon, egg, and cheese there's a slight possibility it might work out.

Balut would be more fun though.

However, don't fret it. Is veggie lasagna too casual? It's easy and so tasty you won't miss the meat. Or veggie sushi. Just remember that the key to a woman's heart is chocolate. Everyday Food has a great, simple recipe for Tofu Chocolate Mousse that will make a nice ender. To the meal, I mean. Good luck!

http://www.marthastewart.com/recipe/tof ... ate-mousse

tem wrote:Dear LTH Forum,

I never thought it would happen to me.

I've somehow ended up meeting a girl who is a vegetarian of the no-fish-either variety. I have no idea how this will work out in the long term but in the short term, she's coming over for dinner on Sunday and I'm looking for entree advice. I was thinking a Thai or Indian curry of some sort. I do have a Bayless cookbook that has a very good potato & roasted chile taco recipe but that seems a bit too casual.

Any advice on the menu or medium-term strategies in general ??

I'd make something semi-vegetarian - i.e., greens cooked in bacon fat and some kind of soup made with chicken stock - to test the waters. Find out now how serious this vegetarianism is. If she's someone who has a general love of food and is willing to cheat every now and then for things that taste good, you can make it work. If, when you serve these dishes to her, she crumples her nose and pulls out her own stash of wheat thins and hummus, take Stagger's advice.

Some of my best friends are vegetarians...

Indeed they are and while I may not share their food preferences/principles/philosophies, etc. I do respect them and honor them. So Kenny, I'd have to disagree about the making something semi-vegetarian with bacon fat or chicken broth to see how she responds. We don't know if she doesn't eat meat itself for whatever reasons, or if she won't eat anything at all made from meat. Most vegetarians I know avoid anything made from meat, and I'd play it safe and assume the same.

Given that it appears the OP is hosting his date at his home for the first time, I don't think it's the time to necessarily push any meat/no meat buttons (and please have a field day with any double entendres there ) I'm assuming if he likes this gal, he wants to impress her, not necessarily test her. At least not yet. We can probably get into a long discussion about dates as tests, but that's a subject for another board.

But then again, I'm a hopeful romantic and believe vegetarians and ominivores can live happily ever after, eat well, and have great sex (except for that class of really weird vegetarians who refuse to kiss meat-eaters ).

That said, it sounds like to OP was looking for recipe ideas as he was enteraining the lass at home, not taking her out to eat, so I'd like to suggest this butternut squash and hazelnut lasagne. I made it for a New Year's Eve dinner a few years ago for a group that included vegetarians and it was a huge hit, even with the omnivores. It's a little more gussied up than your basic vegetarian lasagne so it feels kind of special.

http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/ ... gne-105911

I was about to suggest Chinese or Indian, but that butternut squash and hazelnut lasagna sounds so much more elegant -- a dish to impress. So I'm just going to cast a vote for Hellodali's suggestion.

Me too! That does sound tasty.

REB claimed to be a vegetarian when we met. Well, she did have a one-steak-a-year exception in place. I took that fact as encouragement and slowly broke her.
I remember making rack of lamb one Sunday for company. Told her she was welcome to just have the sides, but didn't the lamb smell delicious? [/evil laughter]
If any of you saw her tearing into that suckling pig at Chuck's, you know how successful I was.

Kenny's ideas are fantastic. Try a chicken stock-based vegetable soup app.

If she's one of those "meat is disgusting" types, I'm with stagger. Get out while you can.

I was involved with a vegetarian several years back ... and I did a lot of the cooking. I got used to making tempeh and tofu dishes, but I'd always make something just for myself. So I'd suggest something similar to Kenny's approach - maybe a miso soup with tofu in a rich, fragrant chicken stock base - all the usual vegetarian queues. Make sure it's much more fragrant than anything else you serve. Tell her it's only for you, since it uses chicken stock, but offer her a taste and see how she reacts (you could conveniently happen to have more soup made). If she won't try it, you'll have to think about the sacrifices you'll have to make. If she's vegan, run quickly.

RAB wrote:REB claimed to be a vegetarian when we met. Well, she did have a one-steak-a-year exception in place. I took that fact as encouragement and slowly broke her.
I remember making rack of lamb one Sunday for company. Told her she was welcome to just have the sides, but didn't the lamb smell delicious? [/evil laughter]
If any of you saw her tearing into that suckling pig at Chuck's, you know how successful I was.

Kenny's ideas are fantastic. Try a chicken stock-based vegetable soup app.

If she's one of those "meat is disgusting" types, I'm with stagger. Get out while you can.

Yeah, I was done for. That rack of lamb was seriously good. RAB didn't mention that in addition to eating steak once a year, I also ate fish and seafood fairly regularly. So, I was more of a pescaterian than a vegetarian. RAB also failed to tell you how much skinnier I was before we met and I wasn't eating meat.

Imagine the fortitude I had to visit Spain THREE times and not eat a bit of pork. Looking back on it, I cannot believe I went to Segovia and sat there eating I don't know what while my three companions chowed down on a gorgeous suckling pig. Fortunately, I've been back to Spain since and believe I made a good effort toward redeeming myself (mmm....Jamonissimo).

In any event, I tell myself that there is no net increase in animals being killed because of my carnivorous ways thanks to RAB's willingness to eat much vegetarian goodness over the years: veggie burgers, veggie Italian sausages, veggie mcribs, veggie stir fry, veggie pastas, veggie Indian, etc. Yes, dear LTH readers, RAB eats those things and appears to like them.

Tem may be able to eventually convince his new love interest to eat meat. I certainly wouldn't suggest that Tem trick her into eating animal products without disclosing the ingredients. At a minimum, for this to work out, she needs to be comfortable with Tem eating a big steak in front of her. For sure. I guess it all depends on why she doesn't eat meat - - if it grosses her out, she has real moral issues with it, or she's the type to try to convert everyone, best of luck.

har ... thanks for the responses. that squash lasagana looks great, but I actually just had lasagna on Tuesday and told her about it so she'd be like "WTF ?"

also, I know she's not vegan cuz I know she eats cheese. Not sure about eggs, though. And, I do know she's sensitive to the whole "cooked in fat/chicken stock" thing because we were at a colleague of her's party last weekend (had to drive to Rockford -- ugh -- but it actually is a nice little test as we were able to sustain conversations for 3hrs while driving ) and she said how she thought a rice dish at the potluck was cooked with chicken stock or fat.

But, she's already said she has no problem with my omnivorism. I had thought about cooking something where I could separate a meatless portion from the rest (a la curry) but I figger it's better for my "chances" to go along with her at least once . I did turn one GF back onto pork with some WSM-smoked ribs but I'll have to play this one by (the pig's) ear It'll be cold day in hell before I cook tempeh or saitan. Oof.

Kennyz wrote:I'd make something semi-vegetarian - i.e., greens cooked in bacon fat and some kind of soup made with chicken stock - to test the waters.

Kenny,

Often we are on the same page, but here I disagree. Testing her boundaries, or even tricking her, seems rude, my suggestions to Tem is take her at face value and see how it progresses. Though having been married for two decades plus I may not be the one to give relationship advice. Or, on second thought, maybe I am.*

Enjoy,
Gary

*G Wiv's Relationship Advice - Marry a woman sweeter, smarter and more patient than you. Her having the tolerance of a saint and a forgiving nature are also key.

tem wrote:It'll be cold day in hell before I cook tempeh or saitan. Oof.

I'll one up ya:

I married a vegetarian (well, pescatarian) and have absolutely no problem cooking seitan. In fact, I love it.

I am the household chef and I'd say 90% of meals I cook are ones my wife and I can share. I also am known to cook 36 lbs of pork shoulder on my WSM, grill 20 lbs of tri-tip, inhale a 1.5lb bone in ribeye and cure 16lbs of pastrami and 30lbs of bacon in our fridge for 10 days and make 30lbs of my own sausage. It doesn't bother her in the least (well, the pastrami and bacon did because it took up the majority of our fridge; only room left was for beer).

As for a date night dinner, Bayless has a fantastic layered tortilla casserole with mashed black beans, pasilla salsa, cheese and crema that is delicious and fun to cook. Could always make a ravioli or gnocchi or something along those lines. And in my mind Indian rarely includes meat.

It really isn't hard to cook vegetarian and the results can be quite impressive. You might just surprise yourself, I know I did (who knew beets would become my favorite food???). And never did I think i'd spend a Sunday with a huge pot of veggie stock simmering away

PM me if you need any recipes or more ideas.

Good luck!

G Wiv wrote:*G Wiv's Relationship Advice - Marry a woman sweeter, smarter and more patient than you. Her having the tolerance of a saint and a forgiving nature are also key.

That advice worked very well for me, too. Always marry up!

This also presents the opportunity for a restaurant recommendation for a night out soon:

PS Bangkok (3345 N. Clark) is great for vegetarians and even vegans. Thai food in general, if you can get nuanced-English speaking staff understanding particular dietary restrictions, offers some of the sharpest flavors and brightest colors in veggie eating, but hostess Su at PSB is something special, probably because of the neighborhood she's catering to. She has vegan condiments on hand, including a vegan fish sauce and a vegan oyster sauce which are quite rich. On my last visit with the sister-in-law, she made vegetarian one-bite salad, papaya salad, and even the fantastic tangy beef preparation (lime juice and leaves, peanuts, chilis, shallots, brown sugar) with tofu. You can eat the exploded catfish or egg dishes and see if she's interested.

What about Indian? People always seem to be impressed when I cook Indian. They think it's very hard and complicated.

Tem, if this turns into something long-term, I'd highly recommend getting Mark Bittman's How to Cook Everything Vegetarian. Tons of great recipes, and thousands of variations for those recipes, with very few involving tofu or seitan. I use it as much as I use How to Cook Everything.

gleam wrote:

G Wiv wrote:*G Wiv's Relationship Advice - Marry a woman sweeter, smarter and more patient than you. Her having the tolerance of a saint and a forgiving nature are also key.

That advice worked very well for me, too. Always marry up!

Gary, a relationship book seems a natural leap for you

Ed, you hit the nail on the head. In fact, it was my own mother who told my (now) wife the first time they ever met that "women always marry down."

To answer the original inquiry, it sounds like this new companion is reasonable and not politically entrenched in her position. You should be fine and might find your horizons broadened. I definitely suggest some trips to Devon Avenue. Even our beloved meat-porium Khan BBQ offers severel dishes that please and satisfy the strict vegetarian in our office.

=R=

Kennyz wrote:I'd make something semi-vegetarian - i.e., greens cooked in bacon fat and some kind of soup made with chicken stock - to test the waters. Find out now how serious this vegetarianism is. If she's someone who has a general love of food and is willing to cheat every now and then for things that taste good, you can make it work. If, when you serve these dishes to her, she crumples her nose and pulls out her own stash of wheat thins and hummus, take Stagger's advice.

As a vegetarian who began eating fish and shellfish shortly after beginning to date my now-husband, I have to say that taking Kennyz' suggestion will make you look inconsiderate or ignorant. If you are sincerely trying to make something that will be enjoyed, I wouldn't do it.

The key to getting along (if that's what you wish to do) is a shared live-and-let-live philosophy. My husband will always eat meat, and I don't figure I ever will. Whether our sons eat meat will always be up to them, but at 3 and 5, they know that they are eating a dead animal's body--I won't have them unaware or disrespectful of what they're choosing.

Good luck!

Holly of Uptown wrote:taking Kennyz' suggestion will make you look inconsiderate or ignorant.

indeed, which is why I am so incredibly lucky to have found my beautiful, meat-forgoing bride (and a local florist who helps me with frequent apologies).

For the record, I hoped my comments would be taken mostly* tongue-in-cheek, and I encourage the OP to cook whatever he thinks it will take to impress his lady friend.


*I say "mostly" because I do believe that enjoyment of meals together is a very important part of a relationship. You have to decide how much of that you're willing to compromise for things like companionship, intelligent conversation, and good sex.

REB, what did you eat as a vegetarian in Spain? I have this vision of trying to live on white asparagus with mayo.

I think sneaking meat in is dirty pool, but cooking it alongside is fair game. Here, honey, have some sesame sticks, I have to take the goat head out of the oven now.

Hopefully soon Satko will open his vegetarian restaurant and you can use his definition of vegetarian...

The butternut/hazlenut lasagna sounds wonderful to me.

"sneaking" in meat products is akin to sneaking in pork products for someone you know keeps kosher-it's just is plain wrong and disrepectful of their views.

That being said as someone who deals ALL the time with a brother who is a low-carb vegetarian and has 3 vegetarian nieces and nephews who don't eat vegetables, only pasta/pizza,(which you may notice is NOT low carb, and only with one specific type and brand of sauce...
I have quite literally gotten to the point with his family whne they say "can I bring anything?"
I answer, "Yes, bring whatever you want to eat..."
They are too complicated for me...
As an interesting aside the youngest boy (9) has been starting to ask for whatever meat item I'm cooking at the time lately....Auntie do you have another steak?

I long for the old days when you put food on the table and people just ate it without issues...

I agree with Stagger.... run,

if it was me I would cut and run. A relationship with a vegetarian, or vegan would never work with me & my meatatarian lifestyle.

I do also feel that it is not right to try to sneak meat, or meat based stocks on someone who chooses not to eat meat.

irisarbor wrote:"sneaking" in meat products is akin to sneaking in pork products for someone you know keeps kosher-it's just is plain wrong and disrepectful of their views.

Ahh, the dangers of sarcasm on the internet. Since I think I am the only one who made what could be perceived as this suggestion, let me again be absolutely clear that I do not advocate sneaking anything into your date's food or drink. I have enough real views on life which are worthy of scorn that there is no need to continue bashing my non-views.

You're all so serious around here!

Hey Kenny,
I'm sorry for taking you too seriously,
I'm sure if we had been having a real conversation over a beer I would have been able to read the sarcasm as it was intended...with (beef?) toungue in cheek...
mea culpa.
I.

irisarbor wrote:Hey Kenny,
I'm sorry for taking you too seriously,
I'm sure if we had been having a real conversation over a beer I would have been able to read the sarcasm as it was intended...with (beef?) toungue in cheek...
mea culpa.
I.

No problem. It was my bad. I just want to be clear with all of you now, because at the LTH Holiday Party my wife said she might start participating in the forum, so I can use all the character witnesses I can get