I think we as society have turned into a bunch of germiphobes. They're germs - not poison.

That said - if I'm cooking I wash my hands a lot. Uncooked meat scares me.
I won't double dip - unless it is something shared by the wife and I only.
The 180* chip/veggie/cracker flip is acceptable although I don't practice it.
I will however break a chip in half before taking the first dip.
I lick my fingers when eating ribs or wings. I don't touch the salt/pepper shakers or ketchup bottle after.
I fold my used napkin and put on my plate to keep the server from handling my germs.

DaveG wrote:They're germs - not poison.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1378634.stm

Of course.

If it doesn't kill ya it'll only make you stronger.

David Hammond wrote:

DaveG wrote:They're germs - not poison.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1378634.stm

But the finger licking would be removing some of the fecal matter, no?

OK - if finger-licking is gross, what about stock made from dined-on leftover rinsed chicken wing bones? I do this all the time - now, the only ones consuming the stock are the ones who put the possible spit there in the first place...

Mhays wrote:OK - if finger-licking is gross, what about stock made from dined-on leftover rinsed chicken wing bones? I do this all the time - now, the only ones consuming the stock are the ones who put the possible spit there in the first place...

sorry, but that is kind of gross.

I do lick my fingers when eating buffalo style chicken wings, & corn on the cob, but that is just me being "green", and wanting to save napkins.

I would submit that it is impossible to not lick your fingers while eating boiled crawfish.

Interesting thread. While I do find the finger licking of others somewhat disconcerting, I do respect my right to lick my own when eating ribs, chicken wings, or the ice cream that runs down the cone onto my hand. If folks think that I am an oger, well, they are probably right.

I was fortunate that, as a child, my tolerance to germs was built up by such activity as drinking from a garden hose, picking, dissecting and tasting honeysuckle after having whipped it out and peeing on the side of the dirt road where the honeysuckle was located and, kissing the family dog on the mouth numerous times a day. I pity you city folk who never experienced such pleasures of childhood as well as the genetic tolerance brought on by such activity.

I do refuse to eat at Flattop grill as my tolerance to ingesting the snot and other airborne germs of others is not as well developed.

MHayes, as for the chicken wing argument, I think that you're safe in that you're boiling them to make the stock.

There's germs and then there's germs. I'm cool with dirt and whatnot, but during the cold and flu season, I'm more concerned with people who cough into their hands and then grab a door handle - or the communal mints.

Actually, I don't know if this was Hammond's original intent, but this thread offers a lot of interesting sociological insight: as Americans, we do tend to be a lot more germ-phobic than other cultures (except, perhaps, for upper classes of some cultures.) Some of this is good: think of the extreme cases on cruise ships a couple years back: I remember that some contamination was spread simply by people touching railings and doorknobs.

There's two parts to this, though: an irrational, viceral "eww-gross!" reaction that may incidentally improve your health, and actual, documented risks and intoxication from ingesting infected or poisoned items which became so from casual contact. I doubt the anti-finger-licking crowd think twice about kissing with their mouths open, for instance, but I can't tell you how many people freak at the suggestion that the same person they kissed shared their fork or drank from their glass. Will's right about the chicken bones: the probability that one of us would get sick from eating broth from bones that have been simmering (in acidulated water, no less) for a minimum of two hours is extremely minute - but I wouldn't serve that broth to anyone outside my family because I know they'd be uncomfortable despite the fact that they are safe.

Now, beyond it being rude to lick your fingers, it's one thing to engage in contamination-risky behavior in a closed circle of people (say, at home, where you know the health of the people you are around and their general level of cleanliness) and another thing entirely out in the world where these things are an unknown quantity. This is why we have so many regulations about how restaurants conduct their business - we are trying to create a best-case scenario for safety even if something goes wrong in the process. Handwashing, for instance, is more about not picking up or spreading contamination from a bathroom than it is about removing your personal contaminants; and there's documented evidence that handwashing reduces illness. OTOH, I have this problem with following the viceral reaction without scientific back-up: it's part of that package of thinking that prevents people from trying strange or new foods or experiences. I think resistance to foods from other cultures is rooted in this fear of contamination: think of all the people you know who won't eat sushi because it's raw, or who won't eat at an outdoor food stand because the food might not be heated properly, or who fear ethnic restaurants in general...or who kiss with their mouths closed. Life's too short.

Mike G wrote:So you're walking around with... a filthy, disease-ridden shoe?

Where I walk?

I think you're safe. I believe it was just thrown at President George!

Something I have wondered about all you germophobes out there. How do you ever have sex, wherein you actually stick your tongue in another person's mouth! (Not to mention other places.) Really folks, bacteria are everywhere. You aren't going to get away.

Jack wrote:How do you ever have sex, wherein you actually stick your tongue in another person's mouth!

So, that's how that works! Mrs. JiLS and I will need to have a serious talk.

Jack, I think your attempted reductio argument is amusing, but ultimately inapposite here. What grosses out (some) regarding finger-licking during eating is the gratuitousness of the act. You almost always have an alternative to licking your fingers while eating (use napkin, wipe on seat of pants, etc.). Accordingly, finger licking is not an essential part of eating. By contrast, to the extent tongue sticking is an essential part of the act of physical love (as you assert and I will stipulate), it can't be avoided. I'm sure there have been folks who were too scared of germs to pursue the delights of ars amoris and kept their tongues to themselves, but most got over it, even here at family-friendly LTH Forum. I don't see rejecting the one (finger licking) as inconsistent with accepting these other uses of the tongue.

Excellently put, JiLS.

I should add that aside from hygiene issues, there's also the aesthetic dimension of my revulsion at finger-licking. It seems to me, at best, a simian behavior, tantamount to picking lice out of another's hair and eating what you find.

On the subject of public kissing and other sexual displays, I'm similarly opposed to witnessing such, unless, of course, I'm paying for the privilege.

A simian behavior? You sound like my mother, who asserts that it's rude to eat grapes without a knife and fork. Do you also object to people who make noises while they eat (remembering there are cultures where this practice is considered polite?) While you are welcome not to lick your fingers and to admonish your own children when they do, it's a little over the top to call out the finger-licking public as monkeys for the sake of your personal aesthetic.

Let's not forget that, on more than one occasion, you've written in support of eating bugs. Many, many people are repulsed by that idea (though I'm not one of them.)

Mhays wrote:A simian behavior? You sound like my mother, who asserts that it's rude to eat grapes without a knife and fork. Do you also object to people who make noises while they eat (remembering there are cultures where this practice is considered polite?) While you are welcome not to lick your fingers and to admonish your own children when they do, it's a little over the top to call out the finger-licking public as monkeys for the sake of your personal aesthetic.

I have no problem being compared to your mother, who I'm sure is a very fine lady.

Is there any aesthetic that is not personal? And not to put too fine a point on it, but it was the behavior not the person that I termed "simian."

So it's OK if I call the behavior of bug-eating simian? Or liken sushi to bait? I guess my point is that every aesthetic is personal; other people are going to have to tolerate your idiosyncrasies while you tolerate theirs.

Of course, it goes without saying that I hold you in high esteem and don't mean for this to be getting so personal, but you happened to push a big Electra button - raised in the family I was, I got it from both sides: my peers, for eating "weird" food like avocado and calamari, and my parents, for eating chips right out of the bag and drinking soda from the can (the horror!) Different people have different ideas about appropriate comportment - while I'd agree there are certain limits, I'd like those to be as broad as possible.

Mhays wrote:So it's OK if I call the behavior of bug-eating simian?

Of course! Why would it not be? Much of what we're talking about here, as we have for years, are personal perceptions and aesthetics.

On NPR yesterday, I heard someone reading a personal essay about things that drove her crazy. Among them: people who cut fingernails in public. Me, I got no problem at all with that. In fact, if we were having lunch together, and you pulled out the clippers to do your toenails, I might be interested in your technique but I wouldn't find it in the least offensive. I understand, though, that some people have a real problem with grooming toenails in public. I respect that attitude, though I don't get it; that's personal aesthetics for you.

David "I'm okay, and you're probably okay, too" Hammond

I reserve my right to lick my fingers when eating BBQ ribs - and will continue to exercise that right until they pry the last rib bone from my cold, dead, and possibly very sticky, fingers.

Kman wrote:I reserve my right to lick my fingers when eating BBQ ribs - and will continue to exercise that right until they pry the last rib bone from my cold, dead, and possibly very sticky, fingers.

No one would deny you that basic human (or let's say "primate") right.

I will lick my fingers when they are used as eating utensils. Not when cooking or when others might be in contact with what my spittle covered fingers might of touched.

There are certain foods that were meant to be eaten with the fingers. Chicken on the bone, ribs, etc and often the coating on the fingers is too great for one napkin so many would be used.

Often I will suck them as clean as possible and then wipe them thoroughly before handling salt shakers and the like.

One thing I find amusing is the people that will pick up their ribs (with their fingers), take one bite, put the food down, clean thoroughly and then repeat. often there will be a serious mound of dirty napkins by the time they are done. I will usually keep on plowing thru the entree until the messy task is done and have a finishing lick and wipe.

Another thing that amuses... People that, for the sake of appearing correct, will not touch any food with their fingers. Struggling with that fried chicken (and only eating half), carving that pizza into neatly sized bites, working those slippery appetizers (fried mushrooms and the ilk). Stop the torture and just pick it up!

Actually I think we have become a little too germ free. Kids that grow up in dust free houses are sick more often. We need to share a little bit of germs to keep our own immune systems running up to it's full potential.

I like the system the Ethiopians have developed, a thin bread between your fingers and the food. Only with the right hand of course.

Panther in the Den wrote:I will lick my fingers when they are used as eating utensils. Not when cooking or when others might be in contact with what my spittle covered fingers might of touched.

There are certain foods that were meant to be eaten with the fingers. Chicken on the bone, ribs, etc and often the coating on the fingers is too great for one napkin so many would be used.

Often I will suck them as clean as possible and then wipe them thoroughly before handling salt shakers and the like.

Wiping should work to thoroughly clean hands just fine. Jeez, I mean why bother using soap and water at all? Just wipe!

Panther in the Den wrote:One thing I find amusing is the people that will pick up their ribs (with their fingers), take one bite, put the food down, clean thoroughly and then repeat. often there will be a serious mound of dirty napkins by the time they are done. I will usually keep on plowing thru the entree until the messy task is done and have a finishing lick and wipe.

I am, alas, that amusing person. When I eat, say, Ghanaian or Nigerian food, and my fingers get sticky with amala, fufu and kenkey, I have to clean them off regularly. I don’t like the feeling of food on my fingers. I’m not cleansing them of food particles for purposes of hygiene but because having fingers covered with my feed feels strange and uncomfortable, kind of like wearing a hat at the dinner table.

Panther in the Den wrote:Another thing that amuses... People that, for the sake of appearing correct, will not touch any food with their fingers. Struggling with that fried chicken (and only eating half), carving that pizza into neatly sized bites, working those slippery appetizers (fried mushrooms and the ilk). Stop the torture and just pick it up!

Eating with fingers and licking fingers are really very different activities. There's a long list of food items that any sane person would eat only with fingers. At the top of the list: cookies. BUT, dipping a hand into the cookie jar is one thing; licking your hand and then dipping it into the cookie jar is, clearly, another.

David Hammond wrote:

Panther in the Den wrote:One thing I find amusing is the people that will pick up their ribs (with their fingers), take one bite, put the food down, clean thoroughly and then repeat. often there will be a serious mound of dirty napkins by the time they are done. I will usually keep on plowing thru the entree until the messy task is done and have a finishing lick and wipe.

I am, alas, that amusing person.

I am like that with rib sauce on my mouth. I feel self-conscious that I look like a mess and so I keep wiping my mouth with my napkin, maybe not after every bite but after every few bites. As I do it, I know that it is not rational, because I'm just going to end up taking another bite of rib and getting more sauce on my mouth, but I am helpless to resist the behavior. And so I end up with a whole bunch of sauced-up napkins.

I probably also exaggerate the extent of my face-sauciness. What feels like a face covered in sauce is probably in reality just the merest trace of sauce at the far corner of my lip. But, not having a mirror handy, I can only go with the physical sensation and react to it.

I notice that rib places tend to put a lot of napkins on the table (more than one per person), so I'm probably not alone. But one of these days I'm going to wait till the end of the meal before wiping my mouth. It will be a breakthrough.

I have noticed that a few of the BBQ places will have a sink right in the dining room (Smoke Daddy and another place that escapes me at the moment).

I think this is a great idea.

Panther in the Den wrote:I have noticed that a few of the BBQ places will have a sink right in the dining room (Smoke Daddy and another place that escapes me at the moment).

I think this is a great idea.

Honky Tonk has one, too, and it is an excellent way for people to hose off hands after being elbow deep in sauce.

as long as it's one of those auto-jet sinks as opposed to one where you have to use those sticky fingers to twist the faucet. I'd rather not wash my hands at all then use one of those things.

Kennyz wrote:as long as it's one of those auto-jet sinks as opposed to one where you have to use those sticky fingers to twist the faucet. I'd rather not wash my hands at all then use one of those things.

There usually is a large stack of paper towels nearby to provide an adequate barrier.

Panther in the Den wrote:I have noticed that a few of the BBQ places will have a sink right in the dining room

Bob Chinn's has sinks in the dining room, no BBQ, at least not that I've noticed, but it's pretty easy to get elbow deep in butter drenched crab.

G Wiv wrote:

Panther in the Den wrote:I have noticed that a few of the BBQ places will have a sink right in the dining room

Bob Chinn's has sinks in the dining room, no BBQ, at least not that I've noticed, but it's pretty easy to get elbow deep in butter drenched crab.

Merle's BBQ in Evanston has some decent food on the menu, paper towel rolls on the table, and, if I remember correctly, sinks in the dining room.

Merle's Barbecue
www.merlesbbq.com
1727 Benson Ave
Evanston, IL 60201
(847) 475-7766

I just realized that those who care about greening up the planet should only eat with their fingers. The use of utensils, which have to be cleaned using hot water, increases one's carbon footprint. And, of course, since food-encrusted fingers also have to be washed, preferably in hot water (which requires depleting the world's water supply, and using energy to heat it; or using napkins, which depletes our forests), using one's saliva to do the job may be the only responsible choice.