I don't think I've ever seen that. Just garden variety cluelessness that involves loudly discussing things you really shouldn't be talking about that loud in front of anyone when food is nearby ("So the doctor said my uterus had a cyst on it the size of a moldy tomato! They had to take it out with barbecue tongs!")

I have used the smile-at-the-kid approach successfully for years, sometimes I try it even while they're calm as a bit of insurance.

I do, however, give dirty looks to the parents who ignore their children. I'm not talking about the Mexican-restaurant-aisle-wanderers, here - those kids are darling! I'm talking about the parent who is so trained to not hear their kids crying that they are probably incapable of even noticing. As David said, a nice meal can be quite an experience for a child - but only if the parent makes it so.

I had a colicky baby. While I don't think I went anywhere during the colicky period (several months) because I wouldn't have been safe behind the wheel, I really feel for parents who have that deer-in-the-headlights look with a screaming baby. I doubt I got more than 2 hours of contiguous sleep for that entire chunk of time, and was so sleep-deprived that I regularly would pour inappropriate things into my coffee in the morning (I remember dish detergent, cereal, and orange juice.) Sometimes you make bad decisions when you are sleep-deprived, especially if presented with the idea of somebody else feeding you for a change. While I don't agree with all parents' choices, often what looks like a bad parent is just a really tired and stressed-out one, and I try to keep that in mind.

In my senior year of college, I took 21 hours worth of classes, held down a daily part-time job, and worked in the theater after that until the wee hours of the morning. I managed it all, and was under the mistaken impression that this would prepare me for any sleepless nights later in life. Little did I know.

Mhays wrote:In my senior year of college, I took 21 hours worth of classes, held down a daily part-time job, and worked in the theater after that until the wee hours of the morning. I managed it all, and was under the mistaken impression that this would prepare me for any sleepless nights later in life. Little did I know.

I've often batted around the notion that having a dog is a gateway drug for parenthood - you have to take care of the dog, feed it, love it, and take care of its elimination needs no matter how sick, tired, or stressed you are. Am I deluded?

If someone in a bar knew a child was present, and used the f word liberally despite this, that would be wrong. But if someone in a bar didn't know a child was present, and was using the f word liberally in the way actual adults like me do in bars ("that situation is really effed up, man," "no effin way!," etc.), then the fault belongs to the parent who allowed the child to walk into the bar.

Sorry. It's kind of in the ballpark, but the sleeplessneess and the intensity of need is something nothing else can prepare you for - though you never know, you might roll the gentic dice and get one of those babies that has to be woken up for feedings. (I've been a dog owner for most of my life, the same thought used to be in the back of my mind.) The one useful lesson I took from dog ownership was consistency, consistency, consistency.

Not to worry, if it wasn't do-able, we wouldn't be edging towards a population of 7 billion. You adjust - even colicky babies grow out of it and allow their parents to sleep eventually. Though, much like a former smoker, I don't enjoy babies the way I used to.

DMChicago wrote:If most parents were as thoughtful as some of you, I wouldn’t mind kids in restaurants. Unfortunately, my experience is the opposite. I cringe when I’m being led to a table and see young children seated nearby.

I admire those of you who are using a dining experience to educate your kids about things beyond the table.

I agree with DM here. Also, some parents do not care what is appropriate or not. My top 3 are as follows: I have had to watch a parent change a poopy diaper on the table ( we were eating at P.F Changs so maybe that's allowed???) and I could not escape it as It was the table directly across from me. Gross! While my hubby and I were trying to enjoy a nice pot roast sandwich at the Depot, the mother in the adjacent booth whipped out her breast every time her child cried, just hiked up that sweater and jammed it in. The worst incident was my poor hubby was punched in the back of the head as we were eating dinner out. We were separated by a partitioned wall with wooden spokes, so the kid would reach through and pop him. About 5 minutes pass and it happens again. When the kid punched him a third time he spun around in his chair and yelled "stop it!". Finally the mother came from the other side of the room and retrieved her child, and gave us a dirty look. This is why i cringe...

dollbabytina wrote:While my hubby and I were trying to enjoy a nice pot roast sandwich at the Depot, the mother in the adjacent booth whipped out her breast every time her child cried, just hiked up that sweater and jammed it in.

Given that booths are back-to-back at Depot, it must have been just a little challenging to see such things going on, but if I'm not mistaken, this kind of public nursing is generally regarded as acceptable, though it does make me a little uncomfortable (I think I've strained ocular muscles trying to discreetely stare away in such circumstances). On the upside, it probably quieted down the baby and, really, what's a mother to do(?).

dollbabytina wrote:While my hubby and I were trying to enjoy a nice pot roast sandwich at the Depot, the mother in the adjacent booth whipped out her breast every time her child cried, just hiked up that sweater and jammed it in.

I really don't think you can conflate poopy diapers and husband-punching with nursing. The other things would irritate any reasonable person, but if you are offended by a mother feeding her baby, that's something you'll just have to get over.

My only problem with kids in restaurants is when they pull out the checkbook to pay the tab......

right. that and the constant finger-licking.

elakin wrote:right. that and the constant finger-licking.

With kids, entirely understandable and fully forgivable...for you see, they are not yet socialized creatures.

Yes, it has to be done, they have every right to do it, but in this case little discretion would have appreciated. It's not that the mother is wrong, or other uncomfortable diners are wrong. Everyone is entitled to determine his or her level of comfort with the subject, but should also realize that the other's perspective is neither right nor wrong, it's just different. you don't change people's minds by forcing them to accept your choices, so telling me to "get over it" doesn't really work for me.

As the mother of a still (yikes) nursing rambunctious 2 year-old, I might be the mom you see um, er, you know, nursing her kid at the very last resort in a public place. (Although we really try to avoid the "jamming the boob" thing you described but to be totally honest, I am not above it if it quiets my kid down and makes every body in the public space more at ease.) I was given a funny little piece of paper by the nurses at the Intensive Care Unit when my son was first born, it was issued by the then seemingly thoughtful Governor (oh where is my argument going?) but it gave me the right to nurse in public. I think I lost it or maybe I sold it to another mom who wanted a seat at my right to you know, nurse in public.

You will probably only find me (I mean us, and our rambunctious ways) at Sunshine Cafe or Tampopo or Huey's or maybe Reza's or if we are feeling really racy, Great Lake in the summer, on the patio. And it won't be later than 6:30 pm, I promise.

And if you really did see a couple changing a poopy diaper on a table at a restaurant, well, I am sorry but that is just totally freaky behavior. The only thing I can think of, and this isn't too far-fetched, is that if the restaurant didn't have any sort of changing table in the bathrooms, then maybe the parents had no choice. I went to the Julius Meinel on Southport when my little guy was just born and while he was in that easy gurgle and coo in the car seat phase, I had to choice but to change him on the super cold, wet marble tile of the women's bathroom, since they didn't see it in their Euro styling to provide a goofy American changing table. And so, after crouching on the not so clean and very cold floor with a writhing, miserable little infant, I felt like lobbing the poopy diaper at the manager's head but I just was too tired at that point to identify that person on the team. Plus, I didn't want to be banned, since that cheesy creamy strudely thing with golden raisins sort of had me hooked. They have since added a changing table. God bless them.

I am not asking you to get over it, I am just asking you to have a teeny bit of empathy.

bjt

I don't have kids and it's really a treat to see well-behaved, or even mostly well-behaved, little kids out at restaurants. And I don't know if it's the restaurants I go to or what, but that's mostly what I see. (For example, Renga Tei always has quite a few kids eating quietly and politely.) Now if I go to a family-style or breakfast place, I would expect a bit wilder behavior, and would take it as part of the deal or just not go.

I do remember a time at Zia's Trattoria where an ankle biter was running free without supervision. It was crowded and dark, with servers everywhere, and I was really worried someone was going to get hurt. That was pretty bad.

Basically, unless it's Charllie Trotters or your anniversary or something, it's only an hour or two and we were all rugrats once. Kids are cute! Especially when you don't have to take them home yourself!*

*although sometimes I want to with the really cute ones

bjt wrote:I went to the Julius Meinel on Southport when my little guy was just born and while he was in that easy gurgle and coo in the car seat phase, I had to choice but to change him on the super cold, wet marble tile of the women's bathroom, since they didn't see it in their Euro styling to provide a goofy American changing table. And so, after crouching on the not so clean and very cold floor with a writhing, miserable little infant, I felt like lobbing the poopy diaper at the manager's head but I just was too tired at that point to identify that person on the team.

It was in the bathroom at Lao Sze Chuan where I somehow managed to change my six month old son in my lap while crouching, so that the only point of contact with the room was between the bottoms of my shoes and the floor.

It's not an experience I care to repeat.

The behavior of PARENTS that bothers me is when they let their kids run wild in a restaurant as if they were back home in their play rooms. They are either going to get run over by a server who doesn't see them or trip someone carrying an armload of food heading for my table. And it's not "cute" when your kid wanders up to my table and starts grabbing at stuff.

I know when I was a kid, my parents would never have let my brother and I behave like that in public. And I've certainly never let our kid wander.

Parents, if you can't control your kids, either leave them home or stay home with them.

My range of reactions to children in restaurant covers the full gamut from delighted to dismayed to disgusted, entirely depending on their comportment. If children are being talkative/inquisitive/insight-sharing, I generally love to listen in (even though I suppose it's eavesdropping). It gives me hope for the human race to hear innocence and curiosity expressed; and, as Art Linkletter used to assert, "kids say the darnedest things." Sometimes parents will look over to give a sheepish apologetic look on behalf of their children, and I respond with a complete "no problem" look, because I'm truly enjoying what the children have to say and am not in the least perturbed by it. On the other hand, crying, shouting, silverware-banging and tantrums are very annoying, and parents should stop their children doing this or take them out of the restaurant when it happens. When they don't, annoyance escalates to despair as my restaurant experience edges ever closer to ruin. Perhaps I'm oversensitive to this, having had crying/tantrum-throwing in public places drummed out of me at an early age by harsh behavior modification techniques, but hey, if I had to suffer control of my free range of expression back then...

Dmnkly wrote:It was in the bathroom at Lao Sze Chuan where I somehow managed to change my six month old son in my lap while crouching, so that the only point of contact with the room was between the bottoms of my shoes and the floor.

It's not an experience I care to repeat.

Our twins are six months old now and Cookie always thinks that a Chinese restaurant is a nice place to bring them for the following reasons:

--a lot of hustle and bustle to cover any noise they might be making.
--a lot of families makes little kids fit right in.
--quickly cooked food usually means quick service: good, inexpensive food that you don't need to linger over.

That is, until I remind her of the average toilet situation at Chinese restaurants around town. Even among my favorites, these are bathrooms that I'm barely willing to use by myself, let alone change a diaper in.

riddlemay wrote:My range of reactions to children in restaurant covers the full gamut from delighted to dismayed to disgusted, entirely depending on their comportment.

This is pretty much how I feel about all restaurant patrons, young and old, including people in my party.

j r wrote:Parents, if you can't control your kids, either leave them home or stay home with them.

We were always very sensitive to the restaurant's atmosphere and the ability of our children to behave. We were quite vigilant about removing crying kids and never took them to quiet, expensive places where courses were served at a civilized, but slow, pace.

When they were very young, one of our favorite places was Walker Bros. in Wilmette because we could relax our vigilance a bit. I took a great picture of my husband holding our 6-month-old daughter there--he's making a goofy face and she grins back; his hair was still red and her hair was barely there. The food is served quickly (okay, maybe not the apple pancake) and is loved by kids, and the place was always packed with kids louder and more poorly behaved than ours! We ate a lot of pancake dinners on those nights I didn't feel like cooking in those days...

Dmnkly wrote:

bjt wrote:I went to the Julius Meinel on Southport when my little guy was just born and while he was in that easy gurgle and coo in the car seat phase, I had to choice but to change him on the super cold, wet marble tile of the women's bathroom, since they didn't see it in their Euro styling to provide a goofy American changing table. And so, after crouching on the not so clean and very cold floor with a writhing, miserable little infant, I felt like lobbing the poopy diaper at the manager's head but I just was too tired at that point to identify that person on the team.

It was in the bathroom at Lao Sze Chuan where I somehow managed to change my six month old son in my lap while crouching, so that the only point of contact with the room was between the bottoms of my shoes and the floor.

It's not an experience I care to repeat.

Been there on many an occasion - I feel you. It was probably worse for you - many places make an unfair assumption and have a table in the women's room and not the men's. Glad to be done with that!

eatchicago wrote:

riddlemay wrote:My range of reactions to children in restaurant covers the full gamut from delighted to dismayed to disgusted, entirely depending on their comportment.

This is pretty much how I feel about all restaurant patrons, young and old, including people in my party.

Well, sure, but a lifetime's experience has caused a little red flag to go up for me when I'm seated near a table that has four kids sitting at it, while I am seldom wary of sitting near a table that has four adults sitting at it. YMMV!

As for the people in my own party, I've had pretty good luck with that over the years.

As a mother of two children aged 4 and 6 I can say that it's taken a lot of work on both the part of my husband and myself to teach them good behavior while dining out. Above all they are children, little people learning how to behave from others, and I think if you don't set the tone for proper behavior then the kids are never going to learn it. Bad behavior on the part of children can sometimes come from bad parenting. I hate seeing people blame the kids for their parents not teaching them how to behave.

Even at some of the more 'family friendly' restaurants I've found broken changing tables and had to resort to removing my kid from the restaurant and attempting to change them in the back seat of the car. I'd never dream of changing my kid in the dining room while other people were having their dinner and I can't imagine how anyone could see that as acceptable. As said before by Mhays- sometimes you have to put yourself in the position of the other person, before I had my kids, I too thought I knew what sleep deprivation was, boy was I wrong.

As far as nursing in public goes most nursing mothers that I know (including myself way back when) don't really tend to whip 'em out, and 'jam 'em in'. Most mothers I have encountered do their best to be discreet. I've noticed moreso it's the people that aren't nursing that chuckle and point making a bigger deal out of the situation that it is. Once when I was out nursing my child under a drape where I was very much so covered, a person told me to 'Go to the bathroom and do that'. Maybe it's not a 5 course meal but if I wouldn't like to eat my dinner in a bathroom, I'm not taking my kid in there to make them eat either.

I think the biggest mistake that a parent can make is not judging the child and understanding their behaviors to make a call on whether or not it's appropriate to take them to a certain restaurant. At this point, even with my kids good behavior, I wouldn't dream of taking them to a fancier sit down dinner, they'd be fidgety impatient, and it would make us both miserable.

Working in the industry it is extremely difficult to figure out "at what point do I say something to a parent if a child is unruly/crying and ruining the dining experience for others?" Any tips? We have tons of great parents and children at the restaurant but also a few that really cause disruptions to others each time they dine. I would really be interested in hearing parents' perspective on this, has anyone ever been approached by a member of a restaurant staff?

anniee8m wrote:Working in the industry it is extremely difficult to figure out "at what point do I say something to a parent if a child is unruly/crying and ruining the dining experience for others?" Any tips? We have tons of great parents and children at the restaurant but also a few that really cause disruptions to others each time they dine. I would really be interested in hearing parents' perspective on this, has anyone ever been approached by a member of a restaurant staff?

If a child were crying, and I were a server, I might ask, "He (or she) seems so unhappy. Is there anything I can bring him (or her)?" In this way, you recognize there's a problem, communicate that recognition to the parent, and avoid reprimanding (which would probably never go down well).

I think David's suggestion is a good one.

From the restaurant's perspective, one thing that ethnic/family restaurants do that more upscale places forget is to get food in front of the kids right away (obviously this doesn't apply to babies.) Even at eight, Sparky has a low tolerance for a long quiet wait for food - and I'm surprised how often he is the last one served (the last time at Red Lobster, who should know better.) (A tip for parents - we keep an mp3 player loaded with a book on tape and ear buds in my purse. Sometimes he's not amazingly well-behaved, he's listening intently to a story.)

I'll never forget taking him to Cross-Rhodes when he was two - the instant we sat down, he had a slice of american cheese and oyster crackers in front of him, which effectively short-circuted the meltdown he was about to have. It doesn't have to be the full meal - crackers or bread are often sufficient.

Thanks for the suggestions, we are definitely quick to get breadsticks, crayons, paper all that stuff to kids right away, sometimes we place it at the highchair before the table has been sat. Kids food always comes out first, unless the parents request us to hold it for the rest of the meal. I am quick to offer assistance and ask parents if there is anything I can do to help them if their child is crying, etc. But what do you do when all those bases are covered and the parents continue with their meal with children screaming/throwing the crayons at other people and angry patrons glaring them down? That is the tricky part.

anniee8m wrote:Thanks for the suggestions, we are definitely quick to get breadsticks, crayons, paper all that stuff to kids right away, sometimes we place it at the highchair before the table has been sat. Kids food always comes out first, unless the parents request us to hold it for the rest of the meal. I am quick to offer assistance and ask parents if there is anything I can do to help them if their child is crying, etc. But what do you do when all those bases are covered and the parents continue with their meal with children screaming/throwing the crayons at other people and angry patrons glaring them down? That is the tricky part.

Ask your manager to check in with them.

OK, so if it's so important for kids to have food the instant they sit down, why don't more people bring their own crackers, cheese, baby carrots etc. and avoid it as an issue?