Dmnkly wrote:I don't know if they're affiliated, but while I haven't been to the Taylor location, my folks live near the one up north and my father says their beef is awful. Single trip, but take that for what it's worth.

FWIW, I think the Patio on Taylor is better than Al's. Then again, I'm one of the Al's detractors. Johnnie's or Chickie's, dipped, hot (or hot&sweet) for me, please. However, I would say Al's, Chickie's, and Johnnie's would give you pretty much as close as you can get to a definitive sampling of three slightly different styles of Italian beefs.

This is...not the same as the Patio Beef near the Edgewater Dominick's, right? Just checking.

I recall asking this of the Edgewater store owner a decade ago (the last time I bought anything other than lottery tickets there) and being told that they weren't related. I agree that perfection in IB is like that in Pizza, very much in the taste of the consumer. I personally find Al's bland and boring as far as Beef goes, and much prefer Patio on Taylor. The Patio on Broadway and Granville, across from the Dominick's is your basic greasy spoon, featuring sub-standard beef.

Morry's Deli in Hyde Park used to make an awesome Beef & Sausage Combo, but that was many years and many owners ago. My personal favorite now is the Buona Beef Family pack, that comes with the spice block, jus, peppers, sealed package of beef and French Bread that you take home and make yourself.

I tend to have IB cravings, where I'll inhale a half dozen or so over a two or three week period (sweet and hot), and then forget about them for six months.

cilantro wrote:I've had both and can definitely appreciate the difference. But even a good Italian beef is not something I'm ever likely to crave. I think it's the kind of thing you need to have grown up eating to really enjoy. Kind of like Bill McNeal and his sandwiches....

I'm a transplant - I wasn't born here nor did I grow up here. One of the great Chicago things I've come to love since moving here circa 1979 is Italian Beef. I'm close to retiring and moving away to warmer climes but when I think of what I'll miss the IB sandwich is high on that list.

For Suzy - go to Johnnie's. It's that good. If you find you don't care for it then you can say with certainty that IB is just not for you, and that's OK. At least any doubt about whether you had tried the "right" IB places will have been removed. I like mine dipped and hot, and Johnnie's is IMO the absolute best (even though it's a pain to get to from this Albany Park resident, it's worth it).

Kman wrote:For Suzy - go to Johnnie's. It's that good. If you find you don't care for it then you can say with certainty that IB is just not for you, and that's OK. At least any doubt about whether you had tried the "right" IB places will have been removed. I like mine dipped and hot, and Johnnie's is IMO the absolute best (even though it's a pain to get to from this Albany Park resident, it's worth it).

Second.

It's not my personal favorite, but that's purely a matter of preference. Johnnie's is one of the very best, totally canonical, and perhaps most importantly, really consistent. When I have just one shot at winning somebody's interest in IB, that's where I always send them.

I wonder if most of the folks who really like ib are also proponents of hot giardiniera.

i don't think so. i grew up eating IB's dipped, no peppers, and loved them. it's only since i've been an adult that i've added giardiniera to my standard order. but i agree, now, that the giardiniera really makes the whole thing work.

Santander wrote:Alternatively, start with a beef and sausage combo. You like Italian sausage, yes? Try Johnnie's combo (dipped, and loaded with peppers), and then the next time order it with no sausage

Good advice, Santander. I didn't grow up with IB, but that's the way I first tried it, as a combo with sausage (at Mr. Beef in River North-not a board favorite, but I've liked it.) I then moved on to Al's and the Southside Beef-a-thon. Al's (Taylor St.) is my favorite to date, due to the garlic and spice. No need for sausage in Al's sandwich. Hot giardiniera a must.

I'm one who will say it's the giardinera that makes the sandwich.
Of course if they don't have giardinera, they've probably frelled the rest of the sammy too -- wrong spicing, wrong roll, overcooked beef... I had an IB at the hot dog stand on Golf a block west of Golf Mill (Franks n Fries, perhaps?) and I'll never be back again. When I asked for "hot" I got nacho rings. eeeeeewwwww.

Perhaps part of the appeal is the forbidden fruit -- my father craved them as something he could never eat in my mother's presence, and passed it on to me. Especially a combo: the amount of fat, salt and meat offended her. Even MrsF frowns at them -- "Too much for lunch."

elakin wrote:

I wonder if most of the folks who really like ib are also proponents of hot giardiniera.

i don't think so. i grew up eating IB's dipped, no peppers, and loved them. it's only since i've been an adult that i've added giardiniera to my standard order. but i agree, now, that the giardiniera really makes the whole thing work.

I have the exact same story. I didn't really develop much heat tolerance until my mid 20s. I developed my love of IB with no peppers at all.

How about this one (purists hold your breath)- I grew up in walking distance from Pop's- grew up with IB for sure. Folks ordered dipped, sweet and thats my earliest memories. When I was old enough to order my own- dipped, hot (love Pop's fresh giardinera), smothered in get this- cheese sauce. Loved it- ate it all the time into my late teens until I moved north. Cal it my own hybridized Philly/IB crossbreed. I crave this maybe once a year and the smarter, older me hits Al's and knows not to smother their delicate bouquet of spices with pasteurized, processed, cheese pus. All said, though, IB is a thread in the fabric of my culinary heritage, but its not something that I eat with regularity.

i believe that once you put cheese on it--any kind of cheese--it's no longer an italian beef sandwich.

call it something else. i guess most places do..."cheezy beef" or whatever. blech.

i don't remember where, but i've ordered italian beef sandwiches and gotten something with red sauce on it. double blech!

am a transplanted Californian who loves the food and variety Chicago offers (although I still mourn the superior sourdough). I would gladly sing the praises of Chicago food over anything Berkeley or SF can offer. I've even learned to like some of the charming local specialties, like that pizza casserole thing and a proper Chicago dog.

However. I have tried several variations on the Italian Beef theme and all I can come up with is...I don't get it. Why is this sandwich so popular?

Perhaps it would help if you thought of it as an Italian version of French-dip (which can also vary widely over the S. Cal region). As per much of the above, you need to hie thyself to Johnny's or Al's before saying good-bye forever.

To me a true Italian Beef can only be had at a stand. Mine is Dipped with Sweet n Hot from Johnnie's, Chickie's, Al's (Taylor only) Mr. Beef Orleans and my most recent try Schatchel's. That being said I do on occasion enjoy a sandwich called an "Italian Beef" from sit down places like Jim & Pete's Pizano's and Armand's. These I order on Garlic Bread with Sweet Peppers and melted Provolone. While this can be an outstanding sandwich, it isn't really an Italian Beef.

I also don't consider anything you eat with a knife and fork as Pizza.

Although I love an IB, I totally understand where you are coming from. When people visit me from out of town and I bring them to a beef stand, some love it and others aren't impressed. My own wife doesn't like them but she's from Minneapolis where if food has anything more than salt and pepper, it's too spicy. Coincidentally, she loves a good sourdough where I'm more of a take it or leave it sourdough fan.

About a year ago I did a blind taste test of IBs and posted the results on the board [url](viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17540&st=0&sk=t&sd=a)[/url]. The results didn't mean much but it was a fun afternoon of beef and beer.

Although I got some flak for even attempting such a taste test (IB lovers have their favorites no matter what you say), we walked away with one valuable piece of information: There are only about 10-12 beef stands that can make this sandwich (Dicksond thinks that 3-4 are better than most). I would stick to one of the ones from either the beefathon or even look at our list since it primarily was on the northside.

You may never like an IB but if you do, may god be with you because you may be hooked forever...

My first experience with IB (well...) was growing up. One of the pizza joints in Peru, IL, had what they called an IB sub on their menu. It was made from strips of what looked like a lunch meat product stuffed into a sub roll and could be had with cheese and sweet peppers that was then toasted/baked in the oven. In other words, nothing like its namesake.

After coming to the Chicago area for school, I was introduced to real IB. At first it was Portillo's and then Buona Beef but I now find them just OK. My first try of Al's (at a suburban spot) wasn't a good experience. Subsequent visits to other Al's (still not Taylor) have been better. My current local favorite is from Bobby's Swingin' Weenies on Belmont (near the Metra station) in Downers Grove. The beef is well-seasoned but their giardinera is just so-so.

My preferred IB is hot regular to slightly dry. Dipped is a little too wet.

I need to check out the other recommendations in the various threads one of these days.

I am the anti-vegetarian on this board. I do not like giardinera because it's basically vegetables. But I agree that the heat is an important part of the IB experience. So I always order hot on the side and pour the hot oil on leaving the vegetables. Some places you can just order hot oil, but to be safe, I just order it on the side.

All right, it looks like Al's is the closest to me (not too far from work) so that's the one I will try first. Hot and dipped, you say?

i've done that too, but i really miss the crunch that the veggies provide.

Suzy Creamcheese wrote:Hot and dipped, you say?

Speaking of mistaking Italian Beefs for a form of pornography!

I used to date a fella who swore by the Beef at Franksville on Harlem & Addison. I believe my pop liked the ones at Nick's Drive-In on Harlem & Touhy. I always remembered those being made of beef so thin it was almost shaved.

seebee wrote:food for thought -
I wonder if most of the folks who really like ib are also proponents of hot giardiniera. I do like ib, but it certainly just is NOT an excellent ib unless my nose is sweating. Sure, the beef is obviously an integral part, but the salty/oily/hot contrast that the giardiniera brings makes the sammich sing for me. An ib with weak or bad or no giardiniera is really kinda uninspiring. The sweet peppers are NOT a substitute, imo. Might be part of the reason I like Tore's so much. The beef is not as heavily salted..er, I mean um, seasoned, but the giardiniera will sizzle you.

I don't ever get peppers of any kind on an IB. My basic order is a beef or combo, juicy, no peppers. I just had one of each from Johnnie's Wednesday night, actually. Maybe it's just because I was raised on IB to some extent, growing up almost exactly in between Johnnie's and the original (and quality, once upon a time before expanding to other locations) Buona Beef, but it's a staple Chicago food for me even without the peppers.

Actually, IB might be my personal defining food for Chicago. At times when I'm traveling for extended periods, I find I can generally track down an acceptable pizza eventually. Probably not Chicago-style, but there are certainly other worthy styles of pizza and I can usually find at least one. I might not be able to find a Chicago-style hot dog everywhere I go, but I can usually find something that will satisfy a hot dog craving. But Italian beef?! Fuhgeddaboutit. Good luck finding Italian beef when a craving strikes in Paris, or in Beijing. Best of luck to anyone else dying for a juicy combo with a deliciously charred sausage while seeking respite from 2 weeks of rice and beans and tres leches.

In the end, if I've been away for too long and start feeling a bit homesick, it's almost always Italian beef that I find myself craving. And it is always Johnnie's for my first welcome back meal on the way home from O'Hare. And it is never with peppers

ucjames wrote:Actually, IB might be my personal defining food for Chicago. At times when I'm traveling for extended periods, I find I can generally track down an acceptable pizza eventually. Probably not Chicago-style, but there are certainly other worthy styles of pizza and I can usually find at least one. I might not be able to find a Chicago-style hot dog everywhere I go, but I can usually find something that will satisfy a hot dog craving. But Italian beef?! Fuhgeddaboutit.

I feel the same way, an IB is the first thing I start to crave when I am away from Chicago.

All right, it looks like Al's is the closest to me (not too far from work) so that's the one I will try first. Hot and dipped, you say?

That'd be my choice. With respect to everyone who's recommended a combo, to me combos (Al's and elsewhere) are invariably less than the sum of their parts..

And get an order of fries, while you're there. They're unfortunately inconsistent, but when they're good they're sublime. When I lived in Hyde Park I'd go to Al's twice a week, as much for the fries as the beef (and I otherwise rarely get fries anywhere).

i wouldn't go for combo; just get the beef light dip w/ hot at johnnie's

i agree. combos are good, but they're different. there's not enough beef on a combo to get those great big mouthfuls of beef that just overwhelm you with all those different flavors and textures.

there's also the added difficulty of eating a combo, since the presence of the sausage in the inner part of the bread makes it far more likely for the bread to break and degrade into a huge sloppy mess.

i'll often order a beef and a sausage sandwich for this reason, and then just eat the sausage without the bread. especially if i'm somewhere where i want to try both.

A beef has to have peppers!!!

I won't eat a beef sandwich unless I have hot giardineria, and enough of it so that I can put some on each and every single bite..

Without the peppers the beef is too one-dimensional and boring. I have no idea how and why some people eat it without giardinera, but I know plenty of people who do.

ListenerCh wrote:A beef has to have peppers!!!

I won't eat a beef sandwich unless I have hot giardineria, and enough of it so that I can put some on each and every single bite..

Without the peppers the beef is too one-dimensional and boring. I have no idea how and why some people eat it without giardinera, but I know plenty of people who do.

Your dead on about that. In fact the hot peppers a place serves is one of the big factors in the taste and texture of the beef and just how good the place is. For example peppers from Chickies, Al's, Johnnies and Carm's in Hillside are all totally different and make for a unique taste to that stands beef. If you ate them all plain they would have a very similar taste. There are days when I find myself fiending for a beef from pop's because of the hot peppers and then there are days when I want a beef from Carm's for their amazing giardinara.

Da Beef wrote:

ListenerCh wrote:A beef has to have peppers!!!

I won't eat a beef sandwich unless I have hot giardineria, and enough of it so that I can put some on each and every single bite..

Without the peppers the beef is too one-dimensional and boring. I have no idea how and why some people eat it without giardinera, but I know plenty of people who do.

Your dead on about that. In fact the hot peppers a place serves is one of the big factors in the taste and texture of the beef and just how good the place is. For example peppers from Chickies, Al's, Johnnies and Carm's in Hillside are all totally different and make for a unique taste to that stands beef. If you ate them all plain they would have a very similar taste. There are days when I find myself fiending for a beef from pop's because of the hot peppers and then there are days when I want a beef from Carm's for their amazing giardinara.

The differences between those stands' beefs may be too subtle for your unrefined, pepper-loving palates on their own, but they are there, believe me

ucjames wrote:The differences between those stands' beefs may be too subtle for your unrefined, pepper-loving palates on their own, but they are there, believe me

My palate is very pepper loving, but I can taste the difference easily. In fact, there is at least one place on that list that I don't think even rates consideration as an acceptable beef...peppers or not.

ucjames wrote:The differences between those stands' beefs may be too subtle for your unrefined, pepper-loving palates on their own, but they are there, believe me

I didnt say they were all the same and the gravy makes each beef taste different as well (not as much as the peppers) but hot peppers aka giardinara or however you spell it are as much a part of the beef as the bread and gravy. Getting a beef from a specialty place without the places hot peppers is like getting a minimalist dog ala Gene & Judes with no sport peppers, its just not the whole thing in terms of flavor.

stevez wrote:

ucjames wrote:The differences between those stands' beefs may be too subtle for your unrefined, pepper-loving palates on their own, but they are there, believe me

My palate is very pepper loving, but I can taste the difference easily. In fact, there is at least one place on that list that I don't think even rates consideration as an acceptable beef...peppers or not.

Im going to bet there arent many out there who have had as many different beefs from as many different spots than me. Which one dont you like? I would say that all mentioned are easily in the ten best in Chicagoland. It probably wont be done til the end of summer but I have been working on a summary of every worthwhile beef stand and some not so good and have been on a tear since I got my camera late last August. You can expect 50+ spots that specialize in beef. In case you wondering its hard to name the best but here are 10 (in no particular order except what came to my head) that come to mind real quick. Ill point out that every place here (except maybe Johnnies, not sure though) makes their own hot peppers and no two are the same.

Johnnie's
Chickie's
Pop's (Kedzie only)
Carm's (Hillside, IL only not affiliated with other)
Al's (Taylor St. only)
Scatchell's
Lil' Joe's (countryside)
Jay's (Montrose & Narragansett only)
Duke's drive Inn (Bridgeview)
10th could be a bunch.