leek wrote:OK, so if it's so important for kids to have food the instant they sit down, why don't more people bring their own crackers, cheese, baby carrots etc. and avoid it as an issue?

we always have a stash of crackers, etc.. for our daughter so we do not need to rely on the restaurant to provide anything for her quickly.

Next time we eat together, leek, allow me to invite you on a tour of my purse. I get busted regularly at the x-ray machine in the Skokie Courthouse for having liquids (juice boxes) in there, and I'm certain I could live for days off the snacks. Not trying to take the responsibility away from the parents, here, just suggesting this is something a restaurant can do.

When I worked for a children's theatre in Atlanta, the opening announcements included the following: "Parents, please remove crying children to the lobby where they may catch their breath." Sometimes, it falls on the establishment to set the rules - whether they be parents and kids or drunken adults.

"Sometimes, it falls on the establishment to set the rules"

Unless you do, and then there's a weeks-long shitfit from outraged parents about how "unfriendly" and child-hating your bakery/coffeshop is.

But what do I know, I'm a guy in a "Don't Ask Me For Sh*t" t-shirt looking for handouts.

leek wrote:OK, so if it's so important for kids to have food the instant they sit down, why don't more people bring their own crackers, cheese, baby carrots etc. and avoid it as an issue?

Before a relatively long car trip or meal out I load my bag up with snacks. Mostly crackers, fruit leathers ect.
When the restaurant lets us take the crayons they pass out home, they stay in my purse, in case the next time we're out, that restaurtant doesn't have any.
I don't even have a purse anymore, I carry one of those heavy duty industrial bags from Manhattan Portage around now. It's easier to wipe out if your juice box gets broke open than a regular purse.

However, there are times like anyone else where I don't notice I'm empty on something and I do depend on the restaurant to be able to give me some saltines ect and I'm glad that they can.

tnfbe wrote:"Sometimes, it falls on the establishment to set the rules"

Unless you do, and then there's a weeks-long shitfit from outraged parents about how "unfriendly" and child-hating your bakery/coffeshop is.

I guess the drunken adults leave, mutely ashamed of their behavior...

Mhays wrote:I'm surprised how often he is the last one served (the last time at Red Lobster, who should know better.)

One of the features of chain restaurants is their consistency from place to place. Red Lobster is no exception: EVERY one I've ever been to is consistently unbearably slow service. The place I worked a decade ago, we stopped going to lunch there because we couldn't get a simple meal in 90 minutes, much less 45 to allow travel time with a one hour lunch break.

Several times I've got their surveys and told them so. ONCE I was at my local one, and we got fast service, and I commented to the manager on my way out. By the next visit they'd "fixed" the problem.

I've never been a server (but my wife was years ago before we were married). Rather than assign a server to a contiguous group of tables, so they are always on station, RL seems to scatter each persons tables through the place. So if you need something, 5 other servers come by before you can find yours. It's just stupid.

Olive Garden, owned by the same folks, seems to be the same way.

anniee8m wrote:Thanks for the suggestions, we are definitely quick to get breadsticks, crayons, paper all that stuff to kids right away, sometimes we place it at the highchair before the table has been sat. Kids food always comes out first, unless the parents request us to hold it for the rest of the meal. I am quick to offer assistance and ask parents if there is anything I can do to help them if their child is crying, etc. But what do you do when all those bases are covered and the parents continue with their meal with children screaming/throwing the crayons at other people and angry patrons glaring them down? That is the tricky part.

You could pull a Taste of Heaven.

I've often batted around the notion that having a dog is a gateway drug for parenthood - you have to take care of the dog, feed it, love it, and take care of its elimination needs no matter how sick, tired, or stressed you are. Am I deluded?

As the mother of a very, very fussy 5 week old and a very mellow dog, I have to say that was not the case for us but, like Mhays said, some people have really easy babies that never cry and sleep like angels right off the bat. we kind of hate those people in our house right now.

However, this thread does give me hope that one day, we may venture out of our house as a full family again and eat in an ACTUAL restaurant. I like the advice so far (seek out Chinese/Mexican restaurants, carry snacks)- keep it coming!!

just get it to go. please.
being kid friendly does not mean tolerating screaming and running and coloring on the walls and disturbing other patrons.
some breeders need to learn some common courtesy.

YEAH! The next time I even see a baby, I'm just going to punch it in the eye! How dare it!

I'll stay out of the more controversial aspects of the thread, but will put in a big plug for Ras Dashen as a place breeders and their offspring should go, at least during off hours. A group of us lunched there a few weeks ago with a very mobile 1.5 year old. The staff couldn't have been happier to let him roam around, and there were tons of little Ethiopian trinkets (pottery, ceramic animals, etc.) around for him to pick up, play with, and break without even the slightest scorn coming from the staff. He and we all had great fun and a cultural learning experience at the same time. Turns out some 1.5 year olds really like injera and that soft, mild fresh cheese made in-house at Ras Dashen.

Mhays wrote:
I'll never forget taking him to Cross-Rhodes when he was two - the instant we sat down, he had a slice of american cheese and oyster crackers in front of him, which effectively short-circuted the meltdown he was about to have. It doesn't have to be the full meal - crackers or bread are often sufficient.

I love Cross Rhodes. Yes, it is definitely family friendly, but I think parents who know their children have the greatest success in eating out with them. Not only as a break to the parents, a teaching experience for the little person, but for the community of other diners, servers, etc.

Kennyz wrote:I'll stay out of the more controversial aspects of the thread, but will put in a big plug for Ras Dashen as a place breeders and their offspring should go, at least during off hours. A group of us lunched there a few weeks ago with a very mobile 1.5 year old. The staff couldn't have been happier to let him roam around, and there were tons of little Ethiopian trinkets (pottery, ceramic animals, etc.) around for him to pick up, play with, and break without even the slightest scorn coming from the staff. He and we all had great fun and a cultural learning experience at the same time. Turns out some 1.5 year olds really like injera and that soft, mild fresh cheese made in-house at Ras Dashen.

It's funny, but Ras Dashen was the site of the one and only run-in we've had with a loony child at a restaurant. It was Valentine's Day (I know, anyone who eats out on VD gets what they deserve...we learned our lesson well) and we were seated next to a table occupied by a young couple and their overtired toddler. The restaurant was quiet, with a live band playing softly in the corner, and a lovely glow of candles, which was lovely. The screeching, food-tossing, thrashing kid next to us kind of ruined the atmosphere, though. Turned out that the couple were Maritu's cousins or some such, so the noise went on totally unabated for the full hour we were there.

During the dinner I teetered between feeling sorry for them (a couple just wants to eat out every now and then) and anger (who the hell brings a toddler to a VD dinner at 9 pm?!).

dollbabytina wrote:Yes, it has to be done, they have every right to do it, but in this case little discretion would have appreciated. It's not that the mother is wrong, or other uncomfortable diners are wrong. Everyone is entitled to determine his or her level of comfort with the subject, but should also realize that the other's perspective is neither right nor wrong, it's just different. you don't change people's minds by forcing them to accept your choices, so telling me to "get over it" doesn't really work for me.

I feel like I should phrase that a bit more gently. When I say you have to get over it, I mean it's literally something you have to get used to. Changing a diaper on a table is unsanitary and you'd be well within your rights to complain about it. However, it's 100% legal for a mother to nurse her baby in public, whether or not it makes other people feel uncomfortable. And looking away is easy enough to do

In short, didn't mean to come off harshly. Stepping away from the horse now....

Kennyz wrote:I'll stay out of the more controversial aspects of the thread, but will put in a big plug for Ras Dashen as a place breeders and their offspring should go, at least during off hours. A group of us lunched there a few weeks ago with a very mobile 1.5 year old. The staff couldn't have been happier to let him roam around, and there were tons of little Ethiopian trinkets (pottery, ceramic animals, etc.) around for him to pick up, play with, and break without even the slightest scorn coming from the staff. He and we all had great fun and a cultural learning experience at the same time. Turns out some 1.5 year olds really like injera and that soft, mild fresh cheese made in-house at Ras Dashen.

break things? you're kidding, right? were you charged for the trinkets? did you offer to pay for them?
would you allow that in a friend's house too?
would you find it acceptable for an adult to roam around breaking pieces of the decor?

I've got nothing against kids, but they do need to be raised properly in order to not become disrespectful sociopaths.

And so, like all threads about finding harmony between breeders and non-breeders, this one spirals into nastiness and absurdity.

Excuse me, I have to go check my children for signs of sociopathy now, because they used to drop stuff on the floor from their high chairs.

The "break things" bit was ajoke, right?

bibi rose wrote:The "break things" bit was ajoke, right?

nope. There were lots of little trinkets on the windowsill and on low-level shelves. The little guy wandered all over the place. He'd pick something up, inspect it, then either place it back down, throw it somewhere, or try to pull it apart. At the beginning, we kept him from doing any real damage, but the gracious, warm restaurant staff insisted that he have freedom to do as he wished. They saw how much fun he was having, and they seemed to be enjoying it as much as he was. So, as long as he didn't seem to be endangering himself, that's how lunch went. I suspect nothing of significant value was broken. We left a very generous tip.

well, that's nice, i guess....but what lesson did that send your child? as a parent, even if someone assured me that it was okay for my kid to break their stuff, i still wouldn't let him, since he'd walk away from that experience thinking that breaking people's stuff is acceptable.

elakin wrote:well, that's nice, i guess....but what lesson did that send your child? as a parent, even if someone assured me that it was okay for my kid to break their stuff, i still wouldn't let him, since he'd walk away from that experience thinking that breaking people's stuff is acceptable.

Looks like my attempt to stay out of the more controversial side of the thread has failed. Ah well. These three points ought to summarize the breaking-stuff dialogue in the the thread:

1. Ras Dashen is a nice place to take children
2. Kenny has questionable parental instincts
3. Thankfully (especially if #2 is accurate), Kenny is not the parent of that child or any other children. He was just the dumb friend who liked following the kid around and playing with all the toys.

Kennyz wrote:2. Kenny has questionable parental instincts

You also aren't very good at psychological diagnoses since you weren't able to recognize the child as a budding young sociopath.

So I have been asked the same question when I make a reservation for a meal at any of the restaurants here at the Atlantis, Paradise Island... "do you have any small children or babies with you". It has been so peculiar because I do not recall ever being asked that question before when I made a reservation anywhere else but here, or am I just sensitive because of this thread. This place is definitely family friendly (water slides and casinos) but I must admit I was taken aback by the question. I am curious what would have happened if I said yes.

Oh, and while I do not have children ( my little girl has four legs and a tail and is a finalist for POTUS-elect's family dog) I think breast-feeding is fine. I am shocked that anyone here--it is a food forum-- would think it was inappropriate given the recent scandal in infant formula both here and in China, what is a loving parent to do in the U.S., look for a wet nurse? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122764783105057435.html?mod=todays_us_marketplace

pairs4life wrote:So I have been asked the same question when I make a reservation for a meal at any of the restaurants here at the Atlantis, Paradise Island... "do you have any small children or babies with you". It has been so peculiar because I do not recall ever being asked that question before when I made a reservation anywhere else but here, or am I just sensitive because of this thread. This place is definitely family friendly (water slides and casinos) but I must admit I was taken aback by the question. I am curious what would have happened if I said yes.

"Children or no children?" is the new "smoking or no smoking?"

Other people's kids frequently annoy me in restaurants. Of course most of them are aged 21-70+.

We were fortunate that when my parents became able to afford dining out that they felt it was important to introduce us to this (then new and novel to us) concept, and I'm eternally grateful for them having done so. I still fondly recall a late 60's dinner at the Top of the Town restaurant when we were living in Bermuda. Maitre D, Table Captain, waiter - wow, so many different people involved. And then the Steak Diane and Cherries Jubilee - look, they set food on fire! Anyways we learned how to comport ourselves in restaurants at an early age and I am glad to see it when parents are doing the same thing with their children. In my experience the odds of having unruly/unwelcome children seated near me have been about the same as having unruly/unwelcome adults - probably less as the children are less likely to drink alcohol and subsequently forget about their "restaurant voice".

pairs4life wrote:So I have been asked the same question when I make a reservation for a meal at any of the restaurants here at the Atlantis, Paradise Island... "do you have any small children or babies with you". It has been so peculiar because I do not recall ever being asked that question before when I made a reservation anywhere else but here, or am I just sensitive because of this thread. This place is definitely family friendly (water slides and casinos) but I must admit I was taken aback by the question. I am curious what would have happened if I said yes.

FYI. Plenty of children in the restaurant last night. I do not recall seeing any babies. There was no difference in their behavior and that of the adults dining last night.

There was no difference in their behavior and that of the adults dining last night.

That doesn't speak well for the children.

pairs4life wrote: I am shocked that anyone here--it is a food forum-- would think it was inappropriate given the recent scandal in infant formula both here and in China, what is a loving parent to do in the U.S., look for a wet nurse? ]

Did someone say it was inappropriate? As i stated above, they have every right to do so. I don't think any sane person objects to a mother breast feeding her baby. That is not what I stated or had a problem with. My issue was with ONE breeder who was so obnoxious about it, she called our attention to her.

This thread is named "be kind to breeders" and as a non-breeder, i felt i had to mention a few of my unfortunate incidences. It comes down to respecting other people and their rights to enjoy a good meal out. We have had many dinners out become less than enjoyable because of some breeders lack of consideration to fellow diners and that is the bottom line.

just out of curiosity, what was obnoxious about the way that one particular woman breastfed?

elakin wrote:just out of curiosity, what was obnoxious about the way that one particular woman breastfed?

maybe she did it while talking loudly on a cell phone.

Erzsi wrote: Once when I was out nursing my child under a drape where I was very much so covered, a person told me to 'Go to the bathroom and do that'. Maybe it's not a 5 course meal but if I wouldn't like to eat my dinner in a bathroom, I'm not taking my kid in there to make them eat either.

Just so we are clear, the above response to a woman nursing is what had me shocked.

We take our son out to restaurants all the time, but we've had to ask for the check & hustle him out on more than one occasion. Nobody wants to listen to a screaming child when they're out to dinner. I'm with most of the posters, in that I think that taking a child to a restaurant is an excellent way to help him evolve from a nasty little animal into a civilized little man. That being said, if you're going to do it, you have to be willing to get up and leave at any time. Also, I think that it's only appropriate to pick up after the kid. Our guy loves to eat, and so is pretty well behaved at restaurants, but he still drops stuff all over the place.

One of my best memories from Chicago was when we took Noah to Lao Sze Chuan for the first time (he was about 8 months old). The wait staff there were so sweet to him. It really seemed like they were happy to have him there. Truly touching, especially when you consider how busy that restuarant is. I'm sure that they had better things to do than to try to make my baby laugh.