David Hammond wrote:If you don't specifically ask for it on the side, sauce on meat is the way BBQ is served throughout Chicagoland.

perhaps thats why alot of Chicagoland "bbq" gets a bad rap.

either way I guess it is good there are options for different varieties of bbq in Chicagoland depending on an eaters preference. I have no horse in this race, other than being a fan of bbq, and a novice(10 years or so) smoker of meats.

its all good.

Muttster wrote:I would agree with you that Aquarium smokers are probably unique to the Chicago area. I would question though the claim that because these types of smokers cooking tips and links are unique to Chicago, that they define what is Chicago-style BBQ. The variety of BBQ that is found in this town as well as in other cities makes this claim difficult to substantiate.

Frankly speaking, I think that sometimes we get so hung up on the delivery system and the BBQ mystique that we lose track of what is really important and that is the texture and taste of the finished product. While the stories of the 80 year old pitmaster who gets up at 3:00 in the morning to stoke the post oak fire are inspiring and fascinating from a sociological perspective, if the brisket isn't worth a damn, it doesn't really matter. What does inspire me though is consistency of product- something that I am still working on in my quest for great BBQ. Guys that produce a great product like Smoque, Homey 1 and Sweet Baby Ray's have my admiration and respect.

Rich

Rich - you get it! the face of Chicago area bbq is changing in that new places are opening and getting away from the traditional aquarium style smokers and going towards different style cookers such as Southern Prides,etc...it really doesnt matter what style cooker is used as long as the end product is worthy of eating. Ive had good and bad off of all of them. and you are right ..consistency is key.

baby ray wrote:sales volume is reflexive of experiece
experience tranlates to skill

It may mean you're skilled at preparing the food you're accustomed to, but it doesn't mean that food is good. If I fliip roof shingles on a grill ten hours a day for ten years, I'm going to be the best damn roof shingle chef in town. Doesn't change the fact that I'm serving roof shingles.

baby ray wrote:sales volume over time in qualiy places denotes goodness
sales volume over time in not quality places equates to value

This just isn't true, Dave. Yes, it's often the case, but it's fallacy to use volume as a justification for quality or value. Olive Garden's sales volume certainly doesn't denote quality. Nor, if you compare it to a good, casual neighborhood trattoria, does it equate to value. Ditto PF Chang's. Lousy Chinese, and expensive compared to most of the places in Chinatown. There are plenty of restaurants that succeed for reasons that have nothing to do with quality or value. Maybe people like their atmosphere. Maybe people find them more approachable. Or maybe people simply don't know any better.

baby ray wrote:im not comparing a micky d's burger as qualiy
im say that a steak at mortons or gibsons will be better because they use better meat and have trained experiened people preparing them

That's true, but it remains true whether they serve 50,000 or 500 steaks. Good restaurants that provide a great value sometimes (often, actually) fail. Lousy restaurants that overcharge sometimes thrive. There are other factors at work. Part of the whole point of this site is to look past those other factors that for many is a distraction from the quality of the food. And that's precisely why it's ridiculous to quote sales numbers or volume here. The point of this site is to ignore those things and focus on only one thing... is the food good?

baby ray wrote:hi gary
correct i did not agree with the comment about research
i have done almost a lifetime of research and you identified what actually happened
i did not agree with or appriciate the comment about sweet baby rays being sweet
as i stated there is a lot more to it than that and it was my life for 24 years and still is

Dave - the success of your sauce is sole testament to all that is wrong with some mook that would pass judgement on a sauce based SOLELY on the ingredients on the label

i appriciate what you say about different strokes for different strokes
that is the essence of bbq to me
how terrible would that be if all bbq was the same
or ever worse if we were all the same

that is exactly why we try to offer more than just bbq

barry and i use the same smoker
we season differently and have different sauces
we strive to cook to the same level of properly rendered ribs and the other

we have been in business 4 years now and have made lots of chages and adjustments
not the least of which is we not almost always serve ribs fresh out of the smoker during
lunch and dinner service and we slice brisket to order now
and in fact have learned a lot more about the restrauant business as well as bbq
we continue to analize our business on a daily basis and strive to do the best job we can

i dont expect everybody to like all of what we do
its more important that we convey to our customers that we care about them and that we are doing our best to provide the best dining experience we can
thanks for your candor
have a good day

baby ray wrote:i dont expect everybody to like all of what we do
its more important that we convey to our customers that we care about them and that we are doing our best to provide the best dining experience we can
thanks for your candor
have a good day

thats a great attitude, and I can pick up your passion for bbq just from your posts. Maybe it is time I pay one of your locations another visit, simply based on these posts, and give your ribs another try.

slainte.

Head's Red BBQ wrote:Dave - the success of your sauce is sole testament to all that is wrong with some mook that would pass judgement on a sauce based SOLELY on the ingredients on the label

Bill,

Did you just refer to me as a mook?

I've had SBR BBQ sauce any number of times, been to Dave's place in Woodfield twice so you must not be talking about me. Though, either way, name calling and personal attacks are prohibited on LTHForum as per the Posting Guidelines.

Regards,
Gary

G Wiv wrote:

Head's Red BBQ wrote:Dave - the success of your sauce is sole testament to all that is wrong with some mook that would pass judgement on a sauce based SOLELY on the ingredients on the label

Bill,

Did you just refer to me as a mook?

I've had SBR BBQ sauce any number of times, been to Dave's place in Woodfield twice so you must not be talking about me.

I believe he was referring to this comment, Gary:

sandman wrote:It's not hard to imagine why Ray's sauce is popular. First ingredient listed: high fructose corn syrup. Further down the list: molasses, corn syrup, sugar.

Maybe that's why he's called SWEET Baby Ray!

G Wiv wrote:

Head's Red BBQ wrote:Dave - the success of your sauce is sole testament to all that is wrong with some mook that would pass judgement on a sauce based SOLELY on the ingredients on the label

Bill,

Did you just refer to me as a mook?

I've had SBR BBQ sauce any number of times, been to Dave's place in Woodfield twice so you must not be talking about me. Though, either way, name calling and personal attacks are prohibited on LTHForum as per the Posting Guidelines.

Regards,
Gary

no i sure didnt..i dont think in any of your posts did you slam rays sauce based on the ingredients on his label did you ?
as much as you might like it to be..its not all about you Gary

Dmnkly wrote:

baby ray wrote:sales volume over time in qualiy places denotes goodness
sales volume over time in not quality places equates to value

This just isn't true, Dave. Yes, it's often the case, but it's fallacy to use volume as a justification for quality or value. Olive Garden's sales volume certainly doesn't denote quality. Nor, if you compare it to a good, casual neighborhood trattoria, does it equate to value. Ditto PF Chang's. Lousy Chinese, and expensive compared to most of the places in Chinatown. There are plenty of restaurants that succeed for reasons that have nothing to do with quality or value. Maybe people like their atmosphere. Maybe people find them more approachable. Or maybe people simply don't know any better.

(Dom, If I may timidly reenter this thread to respond to this thought)...

Value doesn't reside in low price alone. Olive Garden and PF Chang's may suck (I agree with the first opinion, don't fully agree with the second), and both may cost more than other alternatives in their genres, but they're offering something that customers perceive as value, or customers wouldn't go. That something could be a hassle-free break from routine, an enlivening or relaxing atmosphere, or just sheer predictability and consistency (for better or worse). The price they charge for this experience is a price many customers clearly feel is fair for the value received, or they'd be out of business.

Now, do I fully "get" the passion this thread has engendered over definitions of Q? Yes, I do. I don't share that passion--I'm more ecumenical, siding with jim in the "it's all good" department. But I can relate. I get exercised in the same way when people call Broadway cast albums "soundtracks." But that's another story.

Head's Red BBQ wrote:no i sure didnt..i dont think in any of your posts did you slam rays sauce based on the ingredients on his label did you ?
as much as you might like it to be..its not all about you Gary

Bill,

Not making it all about me, but thanks for the gratuitous slam.

If you read your "mook" post you will see that in the section you quote sweet baby ray is directing his comments to Gary, which is what prompted the question.

Next time edit a bit more thoroughly, or at least read what you quote, before taking shots at me or anyone else.

Regards,
Gary

Does anyone have any ribs because the smoke from this thread could make some great barbecue?

The GP wrote:Does anyone have any ribs because the smoke from this thread could make some great barbecue?

No way. This has become the antithesis of "low and slow".

G Wiv wrote:

Head's Red BBQ wrote:no i sure didnt..i dont think in any of your posts did you slam rays sauce based on the ingredients on his label did you ?
as much as you might like it to be..its not all about you Gary

Bill,

Not making it all about me, but thanks for the gratuitous slam.

If you read your "mook" post you will see that in the section you quote sweet baby ray is directing his comments to Gary, which is what prompted the question.

Next time edit a bit more thoroughly, or at least read what you quote, before taking shots at me or anyone else.

Regards,
Gary

Slam? my god Gary..did you not notice the smiley face? did we not have a good natured talk at Honky Tonk awhile back and laughingly talked about egos?
My quote was accurate in reply to daves quote on what someone said about his sauce and a previous post by someone other than yourself..i did not mean to include you in it

Kennyz wrote:

The GP wrote:Does anyone have any ribs because the smoke from this thread could make some great barbecue?

No way. This has become the antithesis of "low and slow".

Yeah, that's what I meant. The caffeine hasn't kicked in.

If I may speak from the lurker's gallery......

While I hope things in here don't get too personal and inevitably emotional.........Standing back and reading through this thread from a distance, one can only ADMIRE the passion. Particularly about the 'cue. Something I hope everyone keeps in the back of their mind at least. The informed passion is the reason this board shines above so many others.

Carry on.

RR_Rancher wrote:If I may speak from the lurker's gallery......

While I hope things in here don't get too personal and inevitably emotional.........Standing back and reading through this thread from a distance, one can only ADMIRE the passion. Particularly about the 'cue. Something I hope everyone keeps in the back of their mind at least. The informed passion is the reason this board shines above so many others.

Carry on.

BBQ will always be debated..no question about that..it is a passionate subject for a lot of us..

Head's Red BBQ wrote:Slam? my god Gary..did you not notice the smiley face? did we not have a good natured talk at Honky Tonk awhile back and laughingly talked about egos?
My quote was accurate in reply to daves quote on what someone said about his sauce and a previous post by someone other than yourself..i did not mean to include you in it

Bill,

LTHForum is an Internet board, most are not privy to our personal interactions. My main point was not so much our back and forth on the board, but to stress that name calling is not appropriate on LTH no matter who it is directed toward.

Far as ego, sure I have a 'bit of an ego' but I haven't had to buy a new hat for at least 18-months so I think I have it in check, at least for now.

Enjoy,
Gary

G Wiv wrote:

Head's Red BBQ wrote:Slam? my god Gary..did you not notice the smiley face? did we not have a good natured talk at Honky Tonk awhile back and laughingly talked about egos?
My quote was accurate in reply to daves quote on what someone said about his sauce and a previous post by someone other than yourself..i did not mean to include you in it

Bill,

LTHForum is an Internet board, most are not privy to our personal interactions. My main point was not so much our back and forth on the board, but to stress that name calling is not appropriate on LTH no matter who it is directed toward.

Far as ego, sure I have a 'bit of an ego' but I haven't had to buy a new hat for at least 18-months so I think I have it in check, at least for now.

Enjoy,
Gary

im pretty sure your direct statement - "Not making it all about me, but thanks for the gratuitous slam" - was in reference to my ego related comment to you. I see all manner of inside joking here..maybe I havent been around long enough to do that myself . Anyway i felt after breaking bread with you on more than one occasion I could say things in jest without offense (especially when they comments are duly noted with a smiley). I stand corrected

Head's Red BBQ wrote:I stand corrected

Ok then, glad we cleared that up.

Now if SBR would just realize the error of his ways!

Just kidding

This conversation is getting a bit heated and personal, let's, and I most definitely include myself here, back it down a few notches.

as we have both said
we have a lot more in common about bbq than not
have a good day gary

welcome to the internet... home of forum warriors (GWIV, David Hammond and baby ray excluded)... here's an idea: how about GWIV as guest chef at sweet baby ray's. that be off the hook awesome

hello
i just looked at the web sites of gale street and twin anchors
no mention of fall off the bones ribs or eat with spoon ribs

i called both places and spoke with the managers of each location

both stated that the term fall off the bone ribs were used but in reference to what they have been doing for decades and decades servings a more tender rib to there guests
the goal was never and is not to make jello meat
and both were taken aback at the term cut it with a spoon
neither ever heard of that term

id like to go to a few places that serve what you all consider jello meat ribs
and taste multiple slabs and see if they are all jello meat or some jello meat

i just cannot believe that their goal is to serve anything less than a tender moist flavorful textured product with a good presentation

i can see these two places not wanting to chage what they are doing after decades of success

not an easy call have to taste more than a few to render a fair opinion i think

like rob say
times there a changing
and there are folks doing more authentic bbq in chicago
and if there is a place for old time bbq'ers their should be a place for early interpetion of bbq as well
i will certainly give you it is not text book bbq
but it is more bbq than less bbq and again this is a way that they have been doing it for a lot longer than we have been eating bbq

where you give it no credit for bbq
i give it credit for slow cooked bbq type meat
with bbq sauce applied that likely has some smoke flavor

is it pure bbq no way
but its made lots of people happy over many decades
and im sure that there are plenty of not so good bbq places that do not make people happy

to me happy is part of bbq just like smoke is part of bbq
ribss are part of bbq just like sauce is part of bbq
lot of inbreeding in bbq from how i see it
its a noun and a verb
and its about fun and friends and family

baby ray wrote:both stated that the term fall off the bone ribs were used but in reference to what they have been doing for decades and decades

There you go...................

gary or anybody else is more than wellcome to do just that
i would be truely impressed if anyone could walk into barrys place or my place without any training
and fit seemlessly into our operation
cook our food or his
happy to have him
and see how he cooks
and wouldl love for him and others to get the back of the house perspective of a restaurant

baby ray wrote:and wouldl love for him and others to get the back of the house perspective of a restaurant

from what I have read on LTH many of us have cooked professionally & payed our dues working the back of the house. I know I have( I was a banquet cook from 6:00 a.m. unti 2:00 p.m., then worked the line at a very busy restaurant from 4:00 to midnight each day at my last cooking jobs before I decided I wanted my nights, and weekends back) .

come on down
i said what i said because i can cook and bbq
but i have never cooked a thing in the restrauant and i sure dont know the system
guest chef or kitchen tour however you like it we are happy to show you what how and why we do what we do
and also happy to hear new thoughts and ideas
i had no idea that a lot of you are restaurant professionals

evenings weekend and holidays no great shake thats for sure
and line cook at a busy place that speaks for itself
you would have a easy fun time in wood dale
elk grove the 200 seat place not so fun
when we are busy there is a lot going on
as you must know
congrats and continued good luck

baby ray wrote:come on down

I will give you guys another try soon as I mentioned upthread, but I doubt there is anything I can contribute(I am just a backyard/deck smoker). I would be happy just seeing the smoker you use.

I've got my pantry almost stocked for the season!!! Ray, I LOVE your sauce!!!!



(I said I LOVE your sauce !!! heheheheheh)