What is going on with Time Out Chicago?

Last Fall I was excited to learn that Time Out will launch a new magazine in Chicago. I've had great luck with them in New York, London, and Paris, and looked forward to the competition in restaurant and other reviews.

I called the number, and they said the magazine would come out shortly. I subscribed and gave them my credit card number. So while I am still waiting for my first issue to arrive, I found on my credit card bill that they already charged the full annual subscription rate in January.

I didn't think they were supposed to bill you until they ship the product. So I called and asked them why they charged my credit card when they didn't send me one magazine. They gave me the same story about how they were going to print their first issue shortly. When I suggested that I would call my credit card company to dispute the charge (which I later did) since I had not received one issue since I was billed, they promptly agreed to cancel my subscription and refund my money.

Who knows, maybe I will end up subscribing if this ever gets off the ground. But right now it looks like a financing scam to me.

The first issue comes out on the 3rd of March.

Erik M.

Thank God. I've been on pins and needles for months, waiting to finally find out where to get jungle curry at 3 am and everything from Tibetan to Indonesian in Chicago.*

(* This is an obscure reference to the dummy cover shown in all their promotional materials, which promises these three things, none of which quite actually exists in Chicago as far as I know.)

Mike G wrote:Thank God. I've been on pins and needles for months, waiting to finally find out where to get jungle curry at 3 am and everything from Tibetan to Indonesian in Chicago.*

(* This is an obscure reference to the dummy cover shown in all their promotional materials, which promises these three things, none of which quite actually exists in Chicago as far as I know.)

Now that Tibet Cafe is closed, you're right on all counts

Jungle Curry/Tibet:

yeah...that went right into the trash

Mike G wrote:Thank God. I've been on pins and needles for months, waiting to finally find out where to get jungle curry at 3 am and everything from Tibetan to Indonesian in Chicago.

Hmmm... there's Himalaya in Niles which has some Tibetan dishes.
Can't help you for latenite Jungle Curry cravings (can't even get it in the daytime without a 6-mile minimum trip anymore*), and I think the closest to Indonesian is a Malaysian place that might have closed a few years ago.

* The 'Death Spot' next to Photo's in NE Mt. Prospect strikes again: what has been in the last 10 years Chinese, Italian, Chinese, Thai, Thai, and Phillipino is vacant again. The latter place only lasted about 6 months.

Mount Everest in Evanston has Nepalese food, which is close to Tibet...
(on Church st. between Chicago and Orrington)

Do they actually have Tibetan or do they have Nepalese dishes that are also eaten in Tibet (I realize that's a somewhat amorphous distinction)? In any case, it's not a Tibetan restaurant, and it's not on a strip where urban trendoids are likely to find themselves, so it's hard for me to imagine that Liam's favorite Nepalese restaurant is the source of the reference.

Actually, being the sort of copywriter who writes such things, I know perfectly well that somebody in some ad agency in New York created the dummy cover and I'm just amused that they went 0 for 3 on the examples they made up out of thin air. I'm sure the actual magazine will do better (and I'm hoping it will come closer to the level of substance that the original London version has, rather than coming off like Chicago Social as their disco-flavored promotional material suggests).

Speaking of magazines that you get a subscription to and nothing happens...CHOW MAGAZINE...I was SO excited! The first issue was good, I waited, and waited and finally just got an e-mail that it will be awhile again until their next issue. Boo. I guess they're putting together a small issue for subscribers though but I'm still disappointed

HI,

I came into Chicago today for lunch and to pick up a premier copy of Time Out Chicago. I quickly checked the index and went straight to the food section. I haven't read the food reviews, yet, I did read their lead food article: a review of Chicago restaurant cookbooks.

The Eat and Drinkup staff reviewed Rick and Lanie's Excellent Kitchen Adventures, Tru and The Spiaggia Cookbook. They prepared a dish at home and compared it to the same prepared in the restaurant down to comparison of costs. For Spiaggia, they prepared Agnolotti del plin con polline di finocchio following the instructions and the ingredient list precisely; including fennel pollen at $30 per ounce. Countless hours later, the damage was $17 per serving to prepare yourself as opposed to $19 per serving at the restaurant. The author said as much as her friends appreciated the effort, she acknowledged it wasn't exactly as enjoyed in the restaurant.

I liked comparative reviews of this nature; especially as you are trying to replicate the gold standard from your restaurant experience. In all cases, the cookbook recipes prepared with various levels of experience all fell short of the mark. The Spiaggia author/cook seemed to have the greatest depth of experience. However, she concluded with a statement which stood out for me, "In my quest to follow the recipe to the letter, I forgot how to cook, how to taste, season and taste again."

I bumped into friends this afternoon where one did work for a celebrity chef who wrote a cookbook. In her review of the cookbook, she saw mistakes and diversions from what she knew the restaurant did.

Anyway, I liked the sensible down-to-earth style of how these cookbook reviews were presented. As for the rest of the magazine, I don't know, I read what interested me first.

I am told that Rudy's Taste is favorably called out in a sidebar.

I like Time Out already. It makes me feel like the secret arbiter of taste in Chicago.

Mike,

Imitation is the highest form of flattery ... since you mentioned it, I did find the sidebar, which was very favorable.

Mike G wrote:I am told that Rudy's Taste is favorably called out in a sidebar.

I like Time Out already. It makes me feel like the secret arbiter of taste in Chicago.

Yes, well, it is rather bittersweet, Mike. Higher in the masthead than the actual name of the restaurant, are the words," Save this restaurant: Spots we can't stomach losing."

It would appear that, due to insufficient patronage, Rudy's Taste is threatened with extinction.

Erik M.

There's a bunch of interesting stuff in there, and I have a feeling that much of it (at least the food related stuff) is drawn from this very forum. The review of LTH is nice, and I know that it wouldn't even be in there if not for a chance encounter with our own Cathy2. Time Out Chicago has some potential, but they've got to clean up such obvious bush league out-of-towner mistakes such as this quote from the article about food co-ops:

The current co-op coverage area is Pulaski to Chicago, Diversey to Ashland

These kind of mistakes are a pet peeve of mine. I mean, if they don't even know which direction the streets run, who are they to tell me anything about my town? I've seen this type of thing before when new newscasters come to town and proceed to mispronounce the names of streets and towns (Des Plaines, anyone?). A little more research and fact checking is in order.

SteveZ wrote:The review of LTH is nice, and I know that it wouldn't even be in there if not for a chance encounter with our own Cathy2.

They found LTHforum before I ever bumped into the ladies standing in front of Little Three Happiness pointing at our LTH(-Loved) Restaurant sticker. I had an armload of stuff and overheard their discussion. I almost said nothing and in a "What the heck!" moment introduced myself. I did help them with their menu selections and invited them to join us at Triple Crown dinner organized by wlingjpera on the Events board. They declined, then found us later to say hello and extend their appreciation for my help.

So on what page is the LTH comments? I just did a flip through and couldn't find the reference.

Regards,

I thumbed quickly thru the mag yesteday. They included one of *my* favorites, Sabri Nehari in the inauragaul 100, but they made this mistake:

[quote not verbatim]"They make the nehari with beef, not the more authentic lamb."

Huh? I understand that nehari can be made with a variety of meats, but I've never heard of beef as inauthentic. In fact, I thought beef shank was the common way to do it.

Rob

Cathy2 wrote:So on what page is the LTH comments? I just did a flip through and couldn't find the reference.

Regards,

It's on page 31 in the Bridgeport/Chinatown section. They only list two places, Lao Sze Chuan and LTH. Noteably missing are such Bridgeport stalwarts as Ed's Potsticker House and South Side Shrimp House, along with many Chinatown favorites (what about Phoenix, Shui Wah, Spring World, etc.)

I just bought an issue of Time Out Chicago, having been a faithful subscriber to the New York version when I lived there. As there is no reasonable equivalent to LTHForum in New York (of course, there is the Empire of Leff, ruled over with even more of an iron fist than the Chicago version), Time Out New York was always my source of restaurant info in that city. Indeed, nothing will replace my LTHForum here, but I'm certainly glad to have Time Out Chicago around. For one, its restaurant listings seem to list some fairly reliable spots in addition to some good forum favorites (really pleased they listed Hot Doug's, La Oaxaquena, TAC Quick, Little Three Happiness, and Barbara Ann's). I could fill a book with the omissions (Let's start south and work our way up. Vito & Nick's, La Quebrada, Carnitas Uruapan, Nuevo Leon, Ed's Potsticker House, Spring World, Taqueria Puebla, Spoon, West Town Tavern, Cafe Central, Marianao), but Time Out Chicago should serve me well, especially when my more Trixie friends want to go out to dinner and they're scared off by my more typical selections. The magazine has a few glaring errors that show that the staff doesn't quite understand the city yet. For one, the restaurant listings exclude the suburbs completely. Chicago has a far more symbiotic relationship with its suburbs than does New York, and I for one know that your average semi-trendy Chicagoan wouldn't think twice about going to Evanston, Elmwood Park, Oak Park, or even Skokie for a meal, whereas in New York, the suburbs are (somewhat wrongly, with the exception of my former home, Bergen County in New Jersey) considered dining wastelands. Plus, the lack of suburban listings means that Johnnie's, Evanston Chicken Shack, Tru, Hong Min, Amanecer Tapatio, Fabulous Noodles, etc. will simply never be listed. In addition, the street-naming error stevez mentioned, as well as the somewhat confused description of the address numbering system, are also kind of annoying. To their credit, however, their bar listings (absent from the NY version) are a nice local touch, considering the importance of bar culture and the seemingly countless number of places to drink here. And they got rid of the AWFUL sex columnist from the New York version. I mean AWFUL. At times it sounded like the imitation of a Learning Annex poet combined with Lady Chatterly's Lover and a travelling medicine-show salesman. Chicago's version speaks plainly and clearly.

I've been heard to complain about the food press around here. So, I feel obliged to mention that some of my fondest hopes and predictions were quickly fulfilled when I finally received my first issue (that being the March issue) of TimeOut.

I saw the comments about some minor inaccuracies here. But hell, I'll take it. I mean, come on. The current list is pretty darn savvy, as is the Jewish food bit. (Though the unwillingness to leave city limits (ie, Skokie) unreasonably restrains the story. We don't have 5 boroughs here, and I agree that including the close/adjacent burbs would not change the complexion of the magazine). I only pick up TO NY as needed, so I don't know much about the list of restaurants. I assume it changes somewhat from issue to issue as do similar listings in other pubs? [PS, must be as Ed's is in the new issue but apparently not in the first]

Erik, GWiv and other LTHer's prints are all over the list. LTH, TAC (mentioning Erik by name), Honey1, Tank, Bruna's, Delilah's, Cal's, Carol's (on line but not in the mag)? The list is cool. And I don't perceive a lot of publicist/advertising influence. It smells like real criticism at this early juncture.

I'm even more impressed with comments on the higher end stuff: Hugo's, Spiaggia, Tru, and especially 160Blue. As for the latter, the TOC comments are dead on. OK, I don't understand Chophouse being the only steak house mentioned, but nothing's perfect and they at least focus on the basement bar/tavern.

I also think that the Reader has risen to the challenge lately, particularly with the help of that Mike Sula fellow.

With the Reader and Time Out, I'd say Chicago is maybe tops in terms of "weekly" press offerings, arts food and features.

In addition to the Reader and Time Out, I enjoy the food writing at Gaper's Block. It's much more about the writing than the food, however. This week, for example, the "critic" writes about the Orange Garden, a topic that, probably not coincidentally, has bubbled up lately on Chowhound. She approaches the experience as an admitted neophyte, writing that "having never actually been to a Chinese restaurant you'll have to cut me some slack." The guileless author hasn't the slightest knowledge of even the most basic American-Chinese food, including egg foo young. But that does not detract from the review one bit. In fact, the review is spot on based on my recent trip to OG for takeout spurred by some recent positive comments. Like the Gapers Block reviewer, I found the appetizers deep fried stuff (for me, the outsized eggrolls and house made crab rangoon) pretty good, the entrees not so much.

When The Untouchables TV series was shooting here, I recommended Orange Garden (through someone I knew who was working on it) to the location scout. All you'd have to do to take it back to the 30s is remove a couple of no smoking signs. That doesn't quite make me want to eat the equally antiquated food, but as a devotee of time warp restaurants, it's one of the best preserved.

Oh, and I agree, the Time Out food section is quite solid, even with the noted city limits quirk (surely they should allow places that are known to city folk, like Trio!). I feared a Zagat-like concentration on 60611 and 60614, and the mere fact of devoting a sidebar to something as far off that map as Rudy's is a very good thing-- as is the idea of particularly calling attention to places that could use the help, instead of writing about that goddam Hot Doug's again.

Mike, you and I think alike I love to look at the Orange Garden almost as much as, say, the Inland Steel building. It pains me that the food isn't great. What surprises me is how many people seem to enjoy the food but hardly notice the building and decor. The respect that each owner has shown to the textbook art deco character of the place is really amazing.

Those who have not been might find interesting the murals, which are something like those at the Green Mill and Bruna's, and those above old German bars in town. Apparently, a good mural was key dining decor in the 30's.

Orange Garden's* been a fetish of mine for ages as well.

It really does need to be landmarked.

*I am sure a search of Chowhound's archives would find a few more references to my infatuation.

Mike G wrote:Oh, and I agree, the Time Out food section is quite solid, even with the noted city limits quirk (surely they should allow places that are known to city folk, like Trio!). I feared a Zagat-like concentration on 60611 and 60614, and the mere fact of devoting a sidebar to something as far off that map as Rudy's is a very good thing-- as is the idea of particularly calling attention to places that could use the help, instead of writing about that goddam Hot Doug's again.

Their intention is to turn over 15-20% of the listed 100, every week. So, Mike, if they included every one of Chicagoland's three and four star restaurants, e.g., Trio, then where would they put all of your beloved down-market picks? Anyway, you can nearly rest assured that Trio will appear on the list very soon. But, as I suggested above, when it does, it will likely be replacing something comparable.

As for the "city limits quirk," I don't know how much more simply it can be said: The reason that Chicago was chosen as a T/O market, over Los Angeles, San Francisco, etc., is that the folks at T/O felt Chicago suited their model best, i.e., it is a relatively dense and scalable city with virtually all points therein readily accessible by means of public transport. When you begin to consider locales like Evanston as fully within the purview, where does it end? Aurora? And then, Mike, we are back to square one: Why don't they just screw Chicago and do Los Angeles instead? I mean, it's 4 times bigger. Think of all that the those poor Angelenos are missing out on.

Erik M.

JeffB wrote:Mike, you and I think alike I love to look at the Orange Garden almost as much as, say, the Inland Steel building.

Jeff,

Here's an old post of mine from chi.eats. Pretty much sums up my feeling, still, about Orange Garden, and Biasetti's for that matter.

Enjoy,
Gary
--

chi.eats
G Wiv
Mar 7 2002

I have not been to the Orange Garden for, at least, 6 or 7 years
though I imagine that the menu has not change a bit. I would also
guess that they are still using the same menus and have only wiped
them down two or three times in those 7 years.

Orange Garden, like Far East, is American Cantonese though it is much
lower on the culinary evolution ladder than Far East. The sauces are
gloopier (take note of the 'serious foodie' term) the fried foods
greasier, the beef stringier and the chicken drier. The only redeeming
factor, which was more important to me 19 or 20 years ago when I ate
there on a semi regular basis, is that it is inexpensive, filling and,
while you may get indigestion, you won't die from food poisoning.

Orange Garden is what it is, a sticky tabled, inattentive service,
mediocre food, run of the mill neighborhood Chinese joint, as can be
found in just about every city with a population of over 25,000.
Chicago probably has 30 or 40 of them.

Don't get me wrong, I used to love Orange Garden, it reminded me of
Chinese food in Milwaukee, where I grew up, and I could take my
ex-wife there with 20 dollars in my pocket and not worry about what to
order. Not worrying about the bill in a restaurant was a pleasant
change for me as I was not only used to Milwaukee prices, but a wee
bit on the broke side.

Go to Orange Garden for lunch and Biasetti's for dinner, you will
think you stepped into a time warp, though Biasetti's fares a lot
better when compared to the 'modern' equivalent then does Orange
Garden.

Enjoy,
Gary

JeffB, regarding Gapers Block, I'll admit to harshness here, but ever since reading "the Belgians are not well-known for their culinary offerings," I ignore the food reviews. It's one thing to have differing opinions about a restaurant, but any one dismissing the cuisine of Belgium out of hand ought to preface his reviews with "Disclosure: I prefer Twinkies and canned beef stew eaten with a plastic fork...and the occasional Iams product."

Arg, bad morning...too much coffee and winnowing the fine points of the tax code.

Choey, I see your point. That review (differnt author) came from the opposite angle, and the worst: a know-nothing proclamation about some basic point of fact that could have been and should have been easily checked.

The Gaper's Block folks are open to suggestion and respond quickly. Regarding a review of Pho 777 I mailed the author about an error regarding the herbs served with the soup and directed GB to some old Erik M. posts. The author quickly revised the piece (a benefit of electronic publishing) and gave a nod to Erik.

But I don't think that particular Hopleaf review could have been saved without completely changing it.

Maybe I need to revise my own broad statement about publications I like and don't like. I found the Orange Garden review to be a breath of fresh air, but the Hopleaf review just seems silly. Likewise, I almost always enjoy(ed) Eng, Obejas, Daley, and Rice despite my criticism of so many things published by the Trib.

Thus, the overall quality of the TO stuff, for now, is all the more impressive.

Erik, I don't disagree with selectivity-- for the simple reason that a guide that lists everything is a book, not a section in a magazine. And I used the word "quirk," as opposed to "fetish," "mania," "bigotry," "crime against humanity," "black-hearted plot spawned in the very sulfur-scented bowels of Hell itself," etc. to represent precisely how intensely I feel on the subject.

It IS one of the things that amuses me about, say, Manhattanites that it deeply matters to them that their cell phone have a 212 area code, for instance, so that no one could possibly mistake them for bridge-and-tunnel peasants. Chicagoans, for all that they occasionally put on cosmopolitan airs, do not seem to be as convinced that outside the protection of the great Daley, only Indians and a few armor-plated leftovers of the Pleistocene can survive.

"The reason that Chicago was chosen as a T/O market, over Los Angeles, San Francisco, etc., is that the folks at T/O felt Chicago suited their model best, i.e., it is a relatively dense and scalable city with virtually all points therein readily accessible by means of public transport."

Did it not have much to do with the relative merits of the cultural offerings here, aside from the dining options?

And Gary, your assesment of OG and Biasetti's stands up pretty well today, though the Biasetti interior is no longer classic.

JeffB wrote:Choey, I see your point. That review (differnt author) came from the opposite angle, and the worst: a know-nothing proclamation about some basic point of fact that could have been and should have been easily checked...

But I don't think that particular Hopleaf review could have been saved without completely changing it.

The thing is, when someone says something so glaringly ignorant, and no editor/co-worker catches it, I can't ever trust anything they say about things I don't know well and don't trust them not to have ripped off someone else when they say something correct.

That person probably shouldn't be writing about food and beer, especially Belgian food and beer, if they so clearly know so little about the subject.

(in a remarkably cheerful mood, I remain,)
A