I had a burger at Patty's today and it was great. It was thick and juicy, definitely fresh ground, with a nice char and their homemade bun was light and airy, but held up fine. The fries could have been more crisp, but they were excellent as well. Definitely going back there. Patty was a little grumpy at first, but was very pleasant and smiled once we got talking to her. It was impressive watching her cooking everything all alone.

Continuing my search, I got a burger and fries at Muskie's on Lincoln today.

Fries were interesting. Fresh-cut, but very thin, like McDonald's or Steak n Shake. Almost never see that type of fry as a fresh-cut. Skin on, too. These were very good.

Burger was the frozen hockey puck variety, and freezer burnt, to boot. Really bad.

I did try Patty's, per many recommendations, and while the place is clearly a treasure (I'll planning on going back for breakfast), I wasn't crazy about the burger. It was indeed hand-formed after I ordered it, but the cook (Patty, I assume) put it on the hottest part of the grill and then spritzed oil over it, causing the flames to totally engulf the burger as it cooked. I like a good amount a char on my burgers, but this just had that kerosene flavor that comes from food being on fire.

On the plus side, it was cooked perfectly, was very juicy and had a clear fresh beef flavor.

I trekked on down to That's a Burger for lunch today, and I have to say that while the burger was pretty good, I'm disappointed overall with the experience.

While they did employ the scoop-n-smash method to griddle the burgers (and used the now-apparently-ubiquitous putty knife to scrape them off), I saw the scoop come out of one of those "tubes" of bulk beef.

The burger itself was good. The nice, loose, crumbly texture was the best feature. Not overly juicy, though, compared to five guys.

Fries were a poor example of fresh-cut. They're not blanched, I don't think, and so were greasy, soggy, and undercooked from being cooked at a lower than ideal temp and removed once they started getting brown.

I was also less than enamored with the fact that they have no seating (not even a counter to lean against). Plus it took them 20 minutes to make my order during what appeared to be a not-overly-busy lunch hour.

On the plus side, the prices were decent.....

I need to try Top Notch next.

I had a burger this weekend at Miner Dunn in Highland Indiana, that was just great. The flavorful and juicy patties (I think they use slightly fatty beef) were of the hand-formed loose packed variety often referred to as 1930's style around here. The fries were excellent too, hand-cut and crispy, coming in a close second to Gus's at WASC. I also loved the tangy and not overly sweet soft-serve orange sherbet that is served with each meal. If you are traveling down I94 in NW Indiana, Miner Dunn is definitely worth a detour. It is also only a half block north of the Liquor Stop which carries quite a few beers not available in Illinois, including selections (like the oaked arrogant bastard) from Stone Brewing.

Closer to home, I think the UBAA makes an excellent burger (for some reason, they seem better on the weekends). The fries are fresh cut, but are of the round "cottage fry" variety.


Miner-Dunn Hamburgers
8940 Indianapolis Blvd
Highland, IN 46322
(219) 923-3311

Johnny's on State Street has fabulous burgers and fries...

allabout.food wrote:Johnny's on State Street has fabulous burgers and fries...

State Street is a fairly long thoroughfare, would it be possible for you to provide at least a cross-street to help those of us unfamiliar with "Johnny's" a better chance of finding it? What about Johnny's makes their burgers and fries fabulous? I'm assuming the meat is house-ground and cooked to order and the potatoes fresh-cut? What else makes them "fabulous"? Is there the chance they approach being "absolutely fabulous"?

Made a trip out to Goldyburger in Forest Park today and, in keeping with the pattern, I was fairly unimpressed.

I actually really liked the place itself. Great old-school tavern atmosphere. Nice and roomy...great place to have a few beers and watch the Cubs game, which we did.

But the burgers were mediocre. I found them too densely packed and therefore somewhat hard and dry...didn't help that the two we ordered were both cooked a couple spots past what was requested. The meat also did not have a particularly fresh or beefy smell or taste. Fries were out of the freezer, boring.

If I lived down the block from this place, I'd love it as a local tavern, but as a burger destination, it doesn't measure up.

Catching up here, I thought I'd mention an unlikely burger exemplar, the Choo Choo Diner in Des Plaines.

I'm somewhat of a regular here. Well, my kid is. He's nuts for trains and trips to the Choo Choo are a special treat or reward for him once in a while.

Last time we were there, I mentioned to the owner that I was working on this project, trying different burgers, and she invited me back to the kitchen to watch her guy cook the burgers.

No rocket science, but interesting. They were using tube beef, 4oz ice cream scooper right from the tube to the griddle. The ball gets a quick sear on each side, and then is thoroughly smashed with the griddle press (also called a bacon press, I believe). This is SOP for these type of burgers, but one thing I noticed was that this guy really pressed quite hard, getting more spread than most places, and he also jabbed his spatula down vertically as the meat flattened out the sides of the press, creating holes and therefore allowing more surface area of the meat to get browned and crispy.

He scraped the now-huge and unevenly-shaped patty off the griddle with a putty knife. (I've seen other places use the grill scraper that's meant for cleaning) and plopped it into the waiting bun.

The Choo Choo's burgers are really a very fine example of the griddled, smashed burger. They take it to the extreme; the patty sometimes overhangs the bun by three, four inches, and it's always got this great thin, lacy outer crispy browned edge.

Their fries are nothing worth commenting on, but their burgers and shakes are really quite excellent.

Choo Choo Diner
600 Lee St.
Des Plaines,
(847) 391-9815

I'd forgotten about UBAA, sort of like the poor man's Kuma's - except they are never crowded and it seemed like our burgers were cooked the way we'd asked for them. There's a pic or two in the linked thread. I need to get back there.

Thanks, that place has been on my radar for a while. I'll check it out soon. Burgers look good.

Did you find out how the Save the Choo Choo campaign is going?

d4v3 wrote:I had a burger this weekend at Miner Dunn in Highland Indiana, that was just great. The flavorful and juicy patties (I think they use slightly fatty beef) were of the hand-formed loose packed variety often referred to as 1930's style around here. The fries were excellent too, hand-cut and crispy, coming in a close second to Gus's at WASC. I also loved the tangy and not overly sweet soft-serve orange sherbet that is served with each meal. If you are traveling down I94 in NW Indiana, Miner Dunn is definitely worth a detour.
Closer to home, I think the UBAA makes an excellent burger (for some reason, they seem better on the weekends). The fries are fresh cut, but are of the round "cottage fry" variety.

I can now second both these rec's

UBAA I could for a while I suppose - have been there a few times, watched the odd game there. Good burger in general, and very good cottage-fries as mentioned.

Was nearby in Hammond this weekend, and so made it to Miner-Dunn for the first time. Didnt realize it was an actual "eatery" - not just fast food, but sit-down, table-service (ie more like Top-Notch). Iam not neccesarily a huge fan of the "30's style" burger.. but I dont know if this is quite 30s style, in that while it is thin, its a quarter-pounder, no? (Most 30s style seem to be 1/10th or so of a lb, IIRC?) Still, it was a fine burger - clearly fresh and burger-tasting, and chopped onions and sauteed mushrooms went nicely with it (the cheese was below the patty, which is rare).

The fries were even better than the burger - very good fries. I usually like the bigger medium-sized fries (crispy outside, creamy inside).. these fries were smaller and thinner than I like, but were still outstanding - still managed to be crispy outside and creamy inside, fresh and terrific. Also really liked the sherbet - went with the "swirl", which was orange-sherbet and vanilla swirled together.

Excellent meal all around - and very reasonable too, at 6-bucks-something for the deluxe cheeseburger (which comes with fries and sherbet included in the price). Definitely worth a detour if youre on I-94 in the Highland Indiana area IMHO.

c8w

c8w wrote:Was nearby in Hammond this weekend, and so made it to Miner-Dunn for the first time. Didnt realize it was an actual "eatery" - not just fast food, but sit-down, table-service (ie more like Top-Notch). Iam not neccesarily a huge fan of the "30's style" burger.. but I dont know if this is quite 30s style, in that while it is thin, its a quarter-pounder, no? (Most 30s style seem to be 1/10th or so of a lb, IIRC?)

Perhaps my terminology was wrong. By a 30's style burger, I meant one that has a thin and loosely packed irregular shaped patty, that only comes cooked one way. I believe you are right that the Miner-Dunn burger is about a 1/4 lb. Maybe that should be referred to as an Indianapolis Blvd. style burger, since the Blue-Top just up street from M-D serves similar style burgers (but the fries aren't nearly as good).

While Miner Dunn does have a carry-out counter (with a separate entrance), eating in the diner is a treat since everybody who works there is so darn friendly and warm. While, as you noted, it is not fast food, it is delivered to the table with suprising speed (usually within minutes of ordering). I always leave there with a good homey feeling, which is probably due 50% to Hoosier hospitality and 50% to the wonder that is soft-serve orange sherbet.

As the originator of the term, originally a 30s-style burger was, indeed, a thin patty of about 10 to the pound, on a bun about 4 inches wide, usually served with a fairly spartan dressing of mustard, pickle and onion, or that plus ketchup. (Bill's in Evanston is a good example.) This style of burger was all over the midwest from the 20s or 30s on (as well as in California once it was civilized by Okie immigration), and survives even in examples such as the McDonald's regular hamburger.

However, portion creep has been on the steady march since the 1930s, and so I would agree that a burger like Schoop's, Miner-Dunn, etc., served on a wider bun and therefore containing more meat (I question if it's a quarter pound, but surely at least 6 to the pound or fewer), still meets the definition of 30s-style because it's still cooked very thin and dressed in this minimalist fashion. It's the thin patty and minimalist dressing that distinguishes it from fatter patties and other styles of cooking; meat doesn't predominate in a 30s style burger, it blends with mustard and onion.


Miner-Dunn


Schoop's

Mike G wrote:As the originator of the term, originally a 30s-style burger was, indeed, a thin patty of about 10 to the pound, on a bun about 4 inches wide, usually served with a fairly spartan dressing of mustard, pickle and onion, or that plus ketchup. (Bill's in Evanston is a good example.)

It is a good term too. I recently heard my teenaged nephew describing Bill's as having "30s style" burgers to his friends. He must have picked up your terminology from me. While Miner-Dunn, Schoops and Blue-Top all serve patties which are much thinner and smaller than most modern burgers, they are still larger than Bill's. They are, however, shaped and cooked much the same (ie. loosely packed patties cooked well on a griddle with a "lace" edge, as in your picture). That is why I suggested that there could be an "Indiana" style burger which is a variation on the 30s burger standard. It is somewhat larger, but never made from denser machine formed patties, like the McDonald's regular you mentioned. In other words, thickness and density (or lack thereof) are more important parameters than circumference and weight. I will agree that lack of toppings typifies the breed. Lettuce, tomato, "special" sauce on a sesame seed bun, are definitely out. As far as larger chains go, Steak and Shake probably comes closest to that ideal.

That is why I suggested that there could be an "Indiana" style burger which is a variation on the 30s burger standard.

Yeah, the lacy edge seems to be taken to an extreme in Indiana, a conscious decision to really flatten the edges so they'll crisp up on the grill. You get a lacy edge now and then elsewhere in my experience, but only Indiana-originating restaurants seem to work at making sure they produce one. (For instance, the Kewpee burger just a couple of hours away is a perfect 30s style burger, but its edge is the same thickness as its middle.)

Not that it affects your theory, but Carl's in St. Louis makes an art of the lacy burger. The grill man speads the beef onto a hot griddle like butter on a roll. It's almost all lace.

JeffB wrote:Not that it affects your theory, but Carl's in St. Louis makes an art of the lacy burger.

As does the Doug T recommended Cozy Inn in Salina, KS. Those look to be some great examples of the 30's style burger, although they have been making them since the 20's and they are somewhat slider like because they are small and cooked with onions.

RE: The Choo Choo Diner

I've taken my boys been to the 2Toots Train Whistle Grill in Glen Ellyn and they also serve a smashed griddle-charred burger that's really flat but tasty. (The fries are generic crinkle cut, though.)

Does anyone know if Epic Burger grinds their own meat? They seem like the kind of place that would. I know the fries are definitely fresh cut.

Hmm, my memory of the Cozy Inn (which, admittedly, is old enough to go to college) was not lacy, though I do believe they, like White Castle (founded in Kansas at almost the same time), use a patty with holes in it and saute the meat in an onion broth. Which I would think would make creating a crispy edge just about impossible.

I'll check into Carl's, I don't know what the standard around St. Louis is like...

UPDATE: Looking at the video, although it's hard to tell in YouTube-o-vision, there doesn't seem to be a sign of broth a la White Castle, and they're smooshing them pretty flat, that is, in a way that will produce at least a certain amount of crispy-laciness. So what do I know, I haven't been there since the 80s.

Mike G wrote:Hmm, my memory of the Cozy Inn (which, admittedly, is old enough to go to college) was not lacy, though I do believe they, like White Castle (founded in Kansas at almost the same time), use a patty with holes in it and saute the meat in an onion broth.

Have a look at the linked video in my post. They are clearly smooshing the patties 30's burger style, although the appear to be a 30's style/slider hybrid.

d4v3 wrote:I had a burger this weekend at Miner Dunn in Highland Indiana, that was just great. The flavorful and juicy patties (I think they use slightly fatty beef) were of the hand-formed loose packed variety often referred to as 1930's style around here. The fries were excellent too, hand-cut and crispy, coming in a close second to Gus's at WASC. I also loved the tangy and not overly sweet soft-serve orange sherbet that is served with each meal. If you are traveling down I94 in NW Indiana, Miner Dunn is definitely worth a detour. It is also only a half block north of the Liquor Stop which carries quite a few beers not available in Illinois, including selections (like the oaked arrogant bastard) from Stone Brewing.

Closer to home, I think the UBAA makes an excellent burger (for some reason, they seem better on the weekends). The fries are fresh cut, but are of the round "cottage fry" variety.


Miner-Dunn Hamburgers
8940 Indianapolis Blvd
Highland, IN 46322
(219) 923-3311

Oh man, thanks for bringing back an old memory! My father took me there a few times when I was a kid. I never could remember the name of it!

elakin wrote:I did try Patty's, per many recommendations, and while the place is clearly a treasure (I'll planning on going back for breakfast), I wasn't crazy about the burger. It was indeed hand-formed after I ordered it, but the cook (Patty, I assume) put it on the hottest part of the grill and then spritzed oil over it, causing the flames to totally engulf the burger as it cooked. I like a good amount a char on my burgers, but this just had that kerosene flavor that comes from food being on fire.

On the plus side, it was cooked perfectly, was very juicy and had a clear fresh beef flavor.

You know, I went to Pattys today to get my burger on what might be one final time - and also had this experience. I know the burgers I've gotten in the past have been flame-charred, but I hadn't experienced a pronounced kerosene/ash flavor before. Fortunately for me, the fries were really on today, otherwise I'd have left very, very sad. I don't know whether this flavor is due to a new oil or technique or just power of suggestion, but it wasn't the burger of my dreams that I remembered.

not sure what kind of project you are on
but i dont think fresh cut fries really go with fresh ground burgers in fast food places
all beef hot dogs and fresh cut fries thats a different story

culvers, steak and shake, and schoops all advertize fresh and never frozen (burgers) not fries

to me fresh formed could mean good or bad choice of meat
fresh is great but it is by no means the only measuring factor

80/20 ground chuck is what i would say deliver the best burger flavor

we use a stockyards 1/2llb burger
and feel like you have a good chance of tasteing the flavor of the meat as well as the char flavor of the grill that is is made on
to fry a patty fresh or not 1/3 or less kind of hard to think of getting the best burger flavor in the burger
hard to think fast food places are using the best of condiments and veggies and buns to make their fast food (let alone the best meat )fast and hit the margins they need to hit
while i am all for fresh cut fries for hot dogs
for burgers steak fries waffle fries sweet potato fries seasoned fries fresh cut potato chip fries all seem to me to have the makings of a excellent compliment to a properly prepared burger
then it also depends on how your service was and the level of hospitality that was offered
in a city of this size their is so much competiton and choice that more factors are involved in a persons choice
and i dont mean that from a consumer view point
the amount of great food suppliers in larger markets are a good part of what enables us to enjoy the many and diverse food offerings that we have as well as the diverse people who enjoy it
good luck with your research

baby ray wrote:80/20 ground chuck is what i would say deliver the best burger flavor

I actually prefer a 50/50 mix of sirloin and chuck for the best flavor. You just have to be sure to not overcook because there will be a little less fat than if you used all chuck, but I feel this mix delivers the best flavor.

The new Whole Foods in Lincoln Park has freshly ground burgers (grilled) and fresh cut fries (thick). They were surprisingly good and only five dollars together.

jonsarkpk wrote:The new Whole Foods in Lincoln Park has freshly ground burgers (grilled) and fresh cut fries (thick). They were surprisingly good and only five dollars together.

Do all Whole Foods Stores have a grill? Like the one in River Forest at Lake and Harlem?

Sounds like a great deal and it is bound to be good.

Panther in the Den wrote:Do all Whole Foods Stores have a grill? Like the one in River Forest at Lake and Harlem?

Not in our John Mahoney-est dreams. RFWF can barely keep the olive bar running.

Panther in the Den wrote:

jonsarkpk wrote:The new Whole Foods in Lincoln Park has freshly ground burgers (grilled) and fresh cut fries (thick). They were surprisingly good and only five dollars together.

Do all Whole Foods Stores have a grill? Like the one in River Forest at Lake and Harlem?

Sounds like a great deal and it is bound to be good.

No others are grilling burgers, and for $5 let's see how long this lasts.