Looking for authentic vindaloo

I need to ask the LTH forum for help on a cuisine type. I am not an Indian food fan, but my customer from Australia is. He specifically asked about vindaloo. In searching the forum I found Hema's and Tiffin, but some of the comments lead me to believe those would not be the most authentic spots on Devon. Would anyone be so kind to suggest a destination?

My customer thinks Chicago does not have very good food, and I have been on a mini-crusade to prove him wrong. On his last visit, I took him to Frontera and he really enjoyed his outing.

Are you looking for Indian authentic or Australian authentic? Aussie Asian food is heavily influenced by local tastes and Indonesian flavors abound. Beets and corn are found in places most wouldn't expect. I've learned this the hard way with several Australian friends and out of town visitors.

In fact, the first thing I thought of was to call Ginger's Ale House and see if there were any Australian bartenders on duty and asking them for recommendations.

Based on how he waxed about how many types of Indian food exist, and he calls his wife a "foodie." I will go with authentic Indian.

Tiffin is decent, but i always found it to be a bit bland. You lose a little bit with a clean restaurant. Hema's is definitely authentic and the family that owns it is super nice. Indian Garden probably would be decent as well.

Hi,

I am not a vindaloo person, though I did a search to find just over 50 posts commenting on vindaloo. I would peck through that information, too. On Cooking and Shopping, there was also a thread discussing how to cook it.

Regards,

My American husband and our authentically Indian friend both love the vindaloo at Hema's.

I first tasted vindaloo in London and have never had anything to match it in the U.S. That said, I don't know if my London vindaloo was also authentic Indian, or just authentic London.
Also worth asking is how "nice" a place you're looking for as opposed to hole-in-the-wall but most "authentic."
I did order and enjoy a vindaloo at the tiny, bare-bones place now just east of the Jarvis el stop, south side of the street. In addition, when I ordered it, the lady taking my order looked first surprised, then worried, and wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into. This at least suggests, that she's making a vindaloo that hasn't been already conceptually denatured for the local audience.
It's a tiny place with just a couple of formica topped tables and I'd guess mostly take-out business.

It might be fun for an adventure or a lark if your friend was interested, but I wouldn't make it the centerpiece of your Chicago hospitality for his visit. Maybe check it out on your own just to get an impression.

I apologize I can't recall the name, though I'm sure it was discussed here a bit when it first opened. Possibly a search just using "Jarvis" will turn it up.

here's my take - hema's in probrobly your best bet for indian in Chicago, but, and this is a big but, vindaloo is a goan food, and the best vindaloos come from cooks who are from goa. I am pretty sure that there isn't a goan place on devon. there are some pretty good other places on devon, but they are less indian and more pakistani - even some of the places that are supposed to be very authentic representations of specific indian regional cuisines on devon aren't that authentic.

I have people coming in from out of town all the time, including from australia. I usually take them for something authentically chicago - like a steak on rush or chicago pizza, or one of the high end american places, or mexican - which they can't really get in australia. indian, thai, vietnamese, seafood and chinese they have at very high ends in australia.

a lot of the time wine places are a good bet, too - australians love wine, and high end US wines are a little exotic for them.

another treat for a foodie - a good friend of mine is australian living in singapore, and he is very much into food. he finds north american fruits to be exotic - berries, apples, pears. try taking him to a farmers market, or, if the season permits, berry picking.

mrbarolo wrote:I did order and enjoy a vindaloo at the tiny, bare-bones place now just east of the Jarvis el stop, south side of the street. In addition, when I ordered it, the lady taking my order looked first surprised, then worried, and wanted to make sure I knew what I was getting into. This at least suggests, that she's making a vindaloo that hasn't been already conceptually denatured for the local audience.
It's a tiny place with just a couple of formica topped tables and I'd guess mostly take-out business....
I apologize I can't recall the name, though I'm sure it was discussed here a bit when it first opened. Possibly a search just using "Jarvis" will turn it up.

Luzzat Restaurant
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4406&hilit=luzzat
1505 W. Jarvis St.
Chicago, IL 60626
773/764-1065

It's been a looong time, but I have had some wicked hot/good Chicken Vindaloo at Klay Oven at 414 N Orleans St. (312) 527-3999 & at Viceroy of India 2520 W Devon Ave.(773) 743-4100. Maybe a phone call could confirm if they have anyone Goan cooking. Personally, the n'hood surrounding Viceroy is more interesting-lots of interesting shops. Klay Oven is more upscale & $$, & near Downtown. Would love to know what you decide upon & how it goes.

(Oh, we brought Vegetarian friends from London, & they were very pleased with Viceroy)

Thanks very much for all the suggestions.

Based on their desire to be close to their hotels, we ended up at Klay Oven. They ordered a variety of foods, and really enjoyed them. The stand-outs to me (but remember, this is not a cuisine I know much about) were the Cornish Hen Masala and Daal dishes. I also liked an okra dish.

But props to Octarine. The next request? One guy wants to know about good Indonesian.

(And what is it with the taxis in River North who try to hoodwink their passengers, and take them in circles, really rectangles? Yes, Checker 780, I'm looking at YOU.)

Louise wrote:It's been a looong time, but I have had some wicked hot/good Chicken Vindaloo at Klay Oven at 414 N Orleans St. (312) 527-3999 & at Viceroy of India 2520 W Devon Ave.(773) 743-4100. Maybe a phone call could confirm if they have anyone Goan cooking. Personally, the n'hood surrounding Viceroy is more interesting-lots of interesting shops. Klay Oven is more upscale & $$, & near Downtown. Would love to know what you decide upon & how it goes.

(Oh, we brought Vegetarian friends from London, & they were very pleased with Viceroy)

I have been trying to find a reason to visit...

Klay Oven West
734 Lake St, Oak Park

I checked their menu and found...

Gosht Vindaloo
Lamb with tomato, onion, ginger, garlic and a hint of vinegar

Maybe I finally found the reason?

Chinois wrote:The next request? One guy wants to know about good Indonesian.

You can do a search which may--may--turn up Penang in Chinatown (I simply don't recall if they offer any Indonesian dishes). Otherwise, Amsterdam or LA...or, of course, Indonesia. 'Cause we ain't got any in Chicago. Good luck!

Gypsy Boy wrote:

Chinois wrote:The next request? One guy wants to know about good Indonesian.

You can do a search which may--may--turn up Penang in Chinatown (I simply don't recall if they offer any Indonesian dishes). Otherwise, Amsterdam or LA...or, of course, Indonesia. 'Cause we ain't got any in Chicago. Good luck!

It appears this condition will be remedied soon.

Couple of comments on this one:

In India Vindaloo is a minor, regional specialty that is not that common. Mostly seen in Goa, I believe, but a variant became wildly popular in London and then spread throughout the world. Strictly speaking it is Indian food, but it is a dish of the Indian diaspora and "authentic" Vindaloo is probably what one finds in London (or Sidney), since one is very unlikely to sample it in India and it would not be the same.

Just responding to the discussion above about whether the Aussie wanted Indian or English Vindaloo. Of course, there are other dishes in India that resemble what is served as Vindaloo in the Commonwealth, but they would not be called Vindaloo.

Interesting that this then went into a discussion of Indonesian food, since that seems to follow the influence of the old Portuguese trading routes (and what I know of Vindaloo suggests that the true Goan version both in name and composition was heavily influenced by the Portuguese).

Chicago has always lacked for Indonesian food. Yes, Penang does offer food from the Malay peninsula, better described as Malaysian than Indonesian though for most of us that is a fairly subtle distinction (it is at the point where Thai, Indian, Indonesian and Malaysian cuisine all meld together into a wonderful stew). One of the joys of traveling to the Netherlands when I went regularly was getting a good Rijstafel. Curiously, there is a place in Albany, NY called Yoni's that is half fancy French, and half upscale Indonesian (Yoni is a French Chef of Indonesian origin). Quite good, if of little help here. Otherwise, Chicago is not so alone - I do not think there are many Indonesian places anywhere in the US - at least I have not found them. And I like that cuisine, so I look. But keep in mind that any place that describes itself as southern Thai, southern Indian (bringing us back to Goa), or Malaysian is likely to have many similarities to Indonesian. Not exactly the same, but similar dishes and often with very similar names.

At least that has been my experience.

Thanks for sending me off on that very pleasant culinary journey, swinging in a hammock on a silver beach with a few palm trees, an unbelievably blue sea, a beer, some naan-like pancakes, hard boiled eggs and a peanut-y curry in which to dip them, along with some searing pickles... shhh, don't wake me up, this is good.

dicksond wrote:Couple of comments on this one:
In India Vindaloo is a minor, regional specialty that is not that common. Mostly seen in Goa, I believe, but a variant became wildly popular in London and then spread throughout the world. Strictly speaking it is Indian food, but it is a dish of the Indian diaspora and "authentic" Vindaloo is probably what one finds in London (or Sidney), since one is very unlikely to sample it in India and it would not be the same.
Interesting that this then went into a discussion of Indonesian food, since that seems to follow the influence of the old Portuguese trading routes (and what I know of Vindaloo suggests that the true Goan version both in name and composition was heavily influenced by the Portuguese).

Id agree with most of the above.

Vindaloo is very much Portuguese (wikipedia claims "term Vindaloo derives from the Portuguese dish "Carne de Vinha d' Alhos", a dish of meat, usually pork, with wine and garlic. Alternate terms are Vindalho or Vindallo"). Thus, in India, it is very much Goan (Goa was and is Catholic, and was ruled by the Portuguese until 1961). Authentically vindaloo is mostly pork, and can (and should IMHO) be fairly fiery hot. Authentic vindaloo also doesnt contain potatoes, as most vindaloo's now do ("aloo" is the Indian word for potato - maybe thats where the introduction of potatoes came from

In the rest of India vindaloo isnt particularly popular (one of India's most popular "cricket play-by-play men" is a chap named Harsha Bhogle - who is wildly popular in Australia and England when he does play-by-play there for India/Australia and India/England games... Ive heard him joke often on the BBC and ABC-radio that he lived all his life in India, ate all his life in India, but never actually saw anything called "vindaloo" on a restaurant menu until he went to an Indian restaurant in Australia

You arent likely to find the "authentic vindaloo" - ie the pork-fiery-hot version (with garlic and wine) anywhere in restaurants here Id guess. You will, however, get I presume decent versions of the vindaloo found in London and Sydney at a few places (mentioned above).

c8w

dicksond wrote:Otherwise, Chicago is not so alone - I do not think there are many Indonesian places anywhere in the US - at least I have not found them. .

David,
My intelligence is a bit out-of-date, I will confess, but as recently as a couple years ago, I found a selection of Indonesian places in southern California. I recall, in particular, one on PCH (that's Pacific Coast Highway for the uninitiated) in Redondo Beach that was tiny but quite good. And I know there were (are?) others. Next time I get out that way, I'll do a little more first-hand investigating.

Gypsy Boy wrote:

dicksond wrote:Otherwise, Chicago is not so alone - I do not think there are many Indonesian places anywhere in the US - at least I have not found them. .

David,
My intelligence is a bit out-of-date, I will confess, but as recently as a couple years ago, I found a selection of Indonesian places in southern California. I recall, in particular, one on PCH (that's Pacific Coast Highway for the uninitiated) in Redondo Beach that was tiny but quite good. And I know there were (are?) others. Next time I get out that way, I'll do a little more first-hand investigating.

Ouch - I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Banyan Indonesian (both the Redondo and Manhattan Beach locations) closed a couple of years back. It was a lovely place, I'm very sad that it's gone.

***Edited to Add***
Sorry, forgot to note that there is an Indonesian restaurant in Madison, WI that I've heard good things about but have not had the opportunity to try.

http://www.bandungrestaurant.com/

not to go to much into it - but the food you get in london isn't authentic indian. you can get vindaloo in india, mostly in goa, or in specifically goan resteraunts. and, as was said, it is usually made with pork. goa was a portugues colony, and vindaloo is a portuguese influenced dish, there are others, as well.


a lot of what you get as "indonesian" in europe also isn't very authentic, or at least isn't indonesian - it is a dutch interpretation of indonesian. also good, but not indonesian. penang is pretty good for american malaysian, but it isn't extremly authentic malaysian, and malaysian isn't indonesian.


honestly, I really would tell your friend that if he really wants to have good chicago food, he should let you show him what chicago does really well. hot dogs, steak, deep dish pizza, mexican, gyros, barbque, brats, israeli, lebanese, jewish style deli, are all things that he will get here 1000 times better than he will get at home. he will get pretty good thai, vietnamese, italian and american style chinese here - while he will get those at home, these are very good, too.



I was in brazil this week, and there was some idiot there at the trade show I was at who went every night to an "outback". your friend reminds me of that - if he is really a foody, he should be trying to sample what is good here, not trying to find a specific food and see if chicago does it well.

globetrotter wrote:I was in brazil this week, and there was some idiot there at the trade show I was at who went every night to an "outback".

I have a nephew who occasionally travels to Thailand for business. First time he went he called to tell me about the wonderful food. I was all ears until I realized he ate lamb chops in his hotel 3 out of 4 nights, the 4th was a set Thai dinner with business associates which he barely touched, he later ordered a steak from room service.

I am afraid there is no hope for him, an otherwise terrific fellow, he lived in a suburb of New Orleans for 6 years and Houston's was his favorite restaurant.

Enjoy,
Gary

G Wiv wrote:

globetrotter wrote:I was in brazil this week, and there was some idiot there at the trade show I was at who went every night to an "outback".

I have a nephew who occasionally travels to Thailand for business. First time he went he called to tell me about the wonderful food. I was all ears until I realized he ate lamb chops in his hotel 3 out of 4 nights, the 4th was a set Thai dinner with business associates which he barely touched, he later ordered a steak from room service.

I am afraid there is no hope for him, an otherwise terrific fellow, he lived in a suburb of New Orleans for 6 years and Houston's was his favorite restaurant.

Enjoy,
Gary

yeah, I once had a friend who was an expat living in thailand take me to his favorite place in bangkok - tony romas. arghhh!!

globetrotter wrote:

G Wiv wrote:

globetrotter wrote:I was in brazil this week, and there was some idiot there at the trade show I was at who went every night to an "outback".

I have a nephew who occasionally travels to Thailand for business. First time he went he called to tell me about the wonderful food. I was all ears until I realized he ate lamb chops in his hotel 3 out of 4 nights, the 4th was a set Thai dinner with business associates which he barely touched, he later ordered a steak from room service.

I am afraid there is no hope for him, an otherwise terrific fellow, he lived in a suburb of New Orleans for 6 years and Houston's was his favorite restaurant.

Enjoy,
Gary

yeah, I once had a friend who was an expat living in thailand take me to his favorite place in bangkok - tony romas. arghhh!!

When I lived in Oslo, Norway for a year, my favorite restaurants were either lebanese/north african fast food joints aimed at cab drivers or day laborers, street food, or Burger King. Norwegian food in general was quite disgusting. Norwegian food is generally: boiled or rotten fish, boiled potatoes, flat bread or waffles, sweet goat cheese, lingonberrys, and shrimp. Most of their restaurants tried to approximate food from other cultures, such as pizza shops, hamburger shops, etc... All quite badly.

The shrimp was really good though.

I have a nephew who occasionally travels to Thailand for business. First time he went he called to tell me about the wonderful food. I was all ears until I realized he ate lamb chops in his hotel 3 out of 4 nights, the 4th was a set Thai dinner with business associates which he barely touched, he later ordered a steak from room service.

Eh, don't knock it! - the best pasta carbonara I have ever eaten in my life was in Thailand. The best burger & frites I've eaten was in Amsterdam. You can find superb versions of things in the most unlikely places - I could have lived on that carbonara every night for a week if, except I was trying to avoid that much damage to my waistline, & despite all the superb Thai food on offer.

(And what is it with the taxis in River North who try to hoodwink their passengers, and take them in circles, really rectangles? Yes, Checker 780, I'm looking at YOU.)

He wasn't - Klay Oven is on a one way stretch of Orleans that can only be reached by crossing south over the river & then doubling back into River North.

Otherwise, Chicago is not so alone - I do not think there are many Indonesian places anywhere in the US - at least I have not found them. .

There are several in SF, including a place I've eaten at called Borobudur Restaurant, a few blocks off Unon Square towards the Tenderloin. Its widely believed to be one of the better Indonesian places in the Bay Area, & serves what I think is a very solid Rijsttafel, though my favorite places for this are, not surprisingly, in Amsterdam.

Another component to authentic Vindaloo is mustard oil (as opposed to ghee or plain vegetable oil). I don't think many restaurants bother to use it in their vindaloos, though. It needs to get heated for a long time over high heat to mellow it out.

I have tried the vindaloo at Hema's and can somewhat recommend it. Any attempts to ask about the oil used at Hema's proved futile, unfortunately.

Athena wrote:

I have a nephew who occasionally travels to Thailand for business. First time he went he called to tell me about the wonderful food. I was all ears until I realized he ate lamb chops in his hotel 3 out of 4 nights, the 4th was a set Thai dinner with business associates which he barely touched, he later ordered a steak from room service.

Eh, don't knock it! - the best pasta carbonara I have ever eaten in my life was in Thailand. The best burger & frites I've eaten was in Amsterdam. You can find superb versions of things in the most unlikely places - I could have lived on that carbonara every night for a week if, except I was trying to avoid that much damage to my waistline, & despite all the superb Thai food on offer.

(And what is it with the taxis in River North who try to hoodwink their passengers, and take them in circles, really rectangles? Yes, Checker 780, I'm looking at YOU.)

He wasn't - Klay Oven is on a one way stretch of Orleans that can only be reached by crossing south over the river & then doubling back into River North.

Otherwise, Chicago is not so alone - I do not think there are many Indonesian places anywhere in the US - at least I have not found them. .

There are several in SF, including a place I've eaten at called Borobudur Restaurant, a few blocks off Unon Square towards the Tenderloin. Its widely believed to be one of the better Indonesian places in the Bay Area, & serves what I think is a very solid Rijsttafel, though my favorite places for this are, not surprisingly, in Amsterdam.

yeah, but that enters a whole different territory - of interpretations. you can get some pretty good food in hong kong that is "american food" - a chinese interpretation of dinner food. you might not ever recognize it, but you probrably would enjoy it. maybe the best in indian chinese food - neither indian nor chinese, but very good. I used to get a great pizza in mumbai, made by an italian aiming at pleasing the upper class indian tastes.

but a chain is a chain, and, for the most part, hotel food is hotel food.


I can get a pretty good carbonara down the block from my house in evanston, but if I am in chicago for 3 meals, I will probrably eat steak, pizza and italian beef or a hot dog. that is just the way I look at it. I get to Bankok every few months, I dont think that I have eaten anything there that wasn't thai or chinese in years.

Athena wrote:Eh, don't knock it! - the best pasta carbonara I have ever eaten in my life was in Thailand. The best burger & frites I've eaten was in Amsterdam. You can find superb versions of things in the most unlikely places - I could have lived on that carbonara every night for a week if, except I was trying to avoid that much damage to my waistline, & despite all the superb Thai food on offer.

Yeah, but... if I set out to find great Thai food in Bangkok, or Mussels and fries in Antwerp, I know they are there, and I know how to find them. If I set out to find great Chinese food in Amsterdam, on the other hand, I will end up with something swimming in ketchup, or at least a tomato sauce closely resembling it. If I set out to find great Mexican food in Ho Chi Minh City, there are places, but the odds are more than good that none of them will really be excellent. (Wild digression - I recently found myself reading a restaurant review in the English press of a Mexican place in London. the food may really be good, and the reviewer is someone who generally does a decent job, but the one thing I am sure of is that no one has a clue what they are eating - some of the descriptions and explanations were laughably off base.)

So I agree in principle, Athena, but I still will look for the best local food at whatever level of fanciness and price I feel like that day, and even if I find my first meal a bit off-putting, I will keep at it. Seems to me there is a lot more upside in trying things I quite possibly could not try elsewhere, and that the best Ramen shack in Osaka has to attain a much higher standard than the best hamburger stand.

I did not always have this approach - in fact, it changed on a trip to Vietnam in 2001, but since then I have eaten better, less expensively, and made more, new, local friends on all of my trips by eating the local cuisine at almost every meal. Not saying I always like it, Puerto Rican food, for example, is not one of my favorites, but after a couple of days I begin to find dishes and types of places that I enjoy. One of the strange byproducts of this is that when I return home, I seem to end up eating a lot more of the food from wherever I last traveled than I did previously. I think it somehow tastes better once I get it in its context, and have enjoyed it prepared well.

Anyway, that is what works for me. And it has helped me to avoid some of the awful, local renditions of foreign cuisine, like Dutch Chinese, that I have been subjected to in the past.

And thanks to all for the Indonesian tips.

I'd second the Vindaloo at Viceroy. I'd also suggest getting the veggie or chicken baltis... very good.

Thank you for all the suggestions.

(And what is it with the taxis in River North who try to hoodwink their passengers, and take them in circles, really rectangles? Yes, Checker 780, I'm looking at YOU.)

He wasn't - Klay Oven is on a one way stretch of Orleans that can only be reached by crossing south over the river & then doubling back into River North.

This was LEAVING the restaurant. Give me a little credit for knowing when a cabbie is running up the fare. In what universe is going on LaSalle to Wacker the best way to get to the Kennedy?

Chinois wrote:(And what is it with the taxis in River North who try to hoodwink their passengers, and take them in circles, really rectangles? Yes, Checker 780, I'm looking at YOU.)

He wasn't - Klay Oven is on a one way stretch of Orleans that can only be reached by crossing south over the river & then doubling back into River North.

This was LEAVING the restaurant. Give me a little credit for knowing when a cabbie is running up the fare. In what universe is going on LaSalle to Wacker the best way to get to the Kennedy?

For future reference, it is totally acceptable to ask the driver which route he plans on taking to get to your destination, or to tell him which way you want him to go (the latter is actually spelled out on the "Passenger Bill of Rights", which is usually glued, taped or screwed to the back of the front passenger seat for your reading pleasure).

Getting in & immediately telling the driver, "we want to go to Western & Logan, let's take Orleans to Ontario and get on the Kennedy there" (if you're from around here & know this info) is a common & reasonable way to avoid the scenario you experienced, and is much more effective than sitting there watching yourself get taken for an involuntary driving tour of River North and the Loop.