What's the difference between a Bar and a Cocktail Lounge?

Thanks to everyone who responded to my earlier topic searching for a good cocktail experience. I'm looking forward to visiting all of them.

Judging from the answered posts I seem to detect a difference in what people consider a cocktail lounge and a bar. Is getting a well made cocktail just having a great drink or is it the atmosphere where you drink that great cocktail.

What do you think?

I really think that there are three categories and not just two on this one.

1) Bar -- primarily serves beer and call/well liquors. Offers happy hour specials. Guys you never want your sister to meet order Jager Bombs there. Bottles of flavored schnapps outnumber bottles of rye whiskey by at least 3:1. At nice bars (usually associated with hotels and steakhouses) the men shall order Manhattans and Martinis and the women order Cosmopolitans, and then we all cry.

2) Cocktail "lounge" -- not really a cocktail bar, although it might market itself as one. May have a menu of "signature cocktails," although the majority of these will include flavored vodka, most often Stoli Vanila. If you ever see a "chocolate martini" on the menu of an establishment, you know it fits into this category. None of the drinks include bitters. The ambient music is always trip-hop or acid jazz and your drink has the highest chance of being a roofie colada among any of the three types.

3) Real cocktail bar -- Always mploys multiple bartenders. Drinks are fully strained after shaking to remove ice. May not even carry traditional ingredients needed to make well-worn but pedestrian cocktails (i.e., no cranberry juice, tonic, etc.) May actually refuse to serve a requested concoction. All juices are fresh-squeezed and few, if any, of the cocktails are made with vodka. Carries super-premium liquors per request but drinks are made with particular flavor profiles of various brands in mind. To the extent that base liquors are "flavored," they are made so through home-made infusions and not through commercial additives. Usually fairly dimly-lit. Cocktail menu may rotate to highlight seasonal ingredients.

Does that help any?

So in Chicago what is a real cocktail bar outside of TVH?

I don't know if I'd go so far as to categorize the different types of bars as "always" being a certain way, in terms of types of liquors carried, genres of music, unexplained crying, or an insouciant way with date-rape drugs. Mostly because I've been to many, many places that don't fit neatly into any of the categories mentioned upthread...and I've certainly never been slipped a mickey, nor do I know anyone who has.

Personally, I consider a "bar" to be a drinking establishment where decor is not a huge priority...that said, some newer ones look snazzy & clean, while some older ones look like dirty dives that haven't had an interior designer come within a one-block radius during the entirety of their existence. There's often some form of jukebox (often one of those internet jukeboxes...I HATE those things), and usually one or more TVs. Most "bar" patrons can be found drinking beers, simple drinks ("<liquor> and <mixer>"-type stuff...rum and coke, gin and tonic, etc.), and shots.

The seating is generally comprised of some combination of bar stools and dining chairs. If it has a kitchen, the menu is comprised of classic "bar food": sandwiches, burgers, fried stuff. I guess what it comes down to is that the primary role of a true "bar" plays is to serve as a place to drink. Serving as a good place to watch sports is often a close second.

In my experience, a "lounge" is a drinking establishment where decor is much more important. There tends to be a theme of some sort, which often looks like it was chosen & realized with the help of an interior design or architecture firm. Music also fits a theme, be it the aforementioned trip-hop or acid jazz, or rap/hip-hop, pop/top-40, or 80s/hair metal, and is either controlled by the staff via a behind-the-scenes stereo system, or by a DJ. There are generally no TVs. While some patrons at a "lounge" still drink beer and simple mixed drinks, many opt for wine, higher-end liquors (neat or on the rocks), or more elaborate cocktails.

The seating at a "lounge" is predominantly of the couch/"tuffet" variety (for "lounging", as the name implies), and there is usually a bar with more decorative/architectural bar stools than would be found in a "bar". If a "lounge" has a kitchen, the food is generally a bit more upscale: small plates for sharing, made of higher-end ingredients...items that might be found at a cocktail party. In my opinion, the primary role of a "lounge" is for patrons to enjoy the atmosphere (by enjoying the music, meeting people, taking dates, etc.) with drinking coming in a close second.

Even given my attempt to be as broad as possible in defining "bar" and "lounge", I think that some places don't fit perfectly into either category. One that comes to mind immediately is The Violet Hour, because it's beautifully-though-minimally decorated inside, has unique & decorative padded stools & seating, but is most definitely primarily focused on the drinks. On the other hand, something like Plan B in Wicker Park (which comes to mind because I was dragged there by my wife during March Madness), which I thought was very much so a lounge, except (much to my relief) it had TVs all over the place (including one in each booth), all tuned to sports.

As for the "real cocktail bar outside of TVH" question, I believe this thread might be of assistance to you.

There is no difference, folks. Someone in the '70s thought "Cocktail Lounge" sounded classier, so that's what bars were called for awhile. My 2 cents.

jsagoff wrote:3) Real cocktail bar -- Always mploys multiple bartenders. Drinks are fully strained after shaking to remove ice. May not even carry traditional ingredients needed to make well-worn but pedestrian cocktails (i.e., no cranberry juice, tonic, etc.) May actually refuse to serve a requested concoction. All juices are fresh-squeezed and few, if any, of the cocktails are made with vodka. Carries super-premium liquors per request but drinks are made with particular flavor profiles of various brands in mind. To the extent that base liquors are "flavored," they are made so through home-made infusions and not through commercial additives. Usually fairly dimly-lit. Cocktail menu may rotate to highlight seasonal ingredients.

Does that help any?

Yes, that helps. It helps me know that I don't want to go to a "real" cocktail bar as defined above. Ever.

Well, it may have devolved to a point where bar and cocktail lounge are used to mean the same thing, but technically, a bar is a long counter on which food and alcoholic drinks are served. A barroom is a room with such a counter. A sign of "bar" outside an establishment simply meant that the establishment had such a counter where you could get drinks. So technically, a bar is just that counter, and it can reside in a pub, a barroom, a hotel, a restaurant, a casino, or even a cocktail lounge.

Because most people headed to an establishment that had a bar went with the intention of finding the bar, people came to associate the word with the establishment. But if you look up "bar" in Webster's, it still informs you that it is that counter.

So what it really means and how it is used seem to be different things, at least in Chicago. (In England and Australia, they still differentiate between the establishment and the counter.)

The difference? About a 300% markup.

I'll never forget the first time my wife took me for a visit to her hometown in Wisconsin. I went over to the bartender to order 2 beers and held out a $10. I got $9 change back. This was a while back but I was easily paying $3-4 a draft in Chicago then.

cocktail lounge has more letters.

Cocktail Lounge = prime cougar hunting grounds.
Bar = prime buffalo wing devouring grounds.

I spend most of my time in Brewpubs, a whole other category.

KSeecs wrote:Cocktail Lounge = prime cougar hunting grounds.
Bar = prime buffalo wing devouring grounds.

Awesome.

I ponder more about the distinction between a bar/lounge/tavern/nightclub that serves food and a restaurant that serves liquor. Where does it cross the line?

Cynthia makes one distinction clear. If a place doesn't actually have a bar, then it isn't a "bar." But within the licensing rules of the city of Chicago, a lot of places I'd call bars are licensed as restaurants.

For me, given the current paradigm, bars serve beers, shots and perfunctory cocktails. Cocktail lounges promise higher-quality cocktails, in which subtlety, touch and artistry are all part of the drinks being served. Of course, these are my personal expectations/definitions, which may have nothing to do with reality.

=R=

spinynorman99 wrote:The difference? About a 300% markup.

I'll never forget the first time my wife took me for a visit to her hometown in Wisconsin. I went over to the bartender to order 2 beers and held out a $10. I got $9 change back. This was a while back but I was easily paying $3-4 a draft in Chicago then.

Heh...the girl and I just had a similar experience up in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin. Ordered five beers (Point Amber) and a pickled turkey gizzard and, when it was time to settle, $8.50. Thought he had miscounted, but he confirmed, five beers and a turkey gizzard, $8.50. We passed a place down the street that did it one better (well, for one definition of "better"): 75 cent Keystone lights. I thought I had inadvertently stepped through a tear in the space-time fabric.