You know I dont use a watch to tell time either, since they are too functional and techie. But since my electric does all the thinking, I never check the temps either...

Head's Red BBQ wrote:

G Wiv wrote:

Head's Red BBQ wrote:no assumptions or what temp you cook at ..Im just asking a very specific question..
how does one monitor cooker temp by look and feel on a WSM?. In other words how does one sense heat levels by sight or feel on a wsm? You just light your fire ..set your vents and thats it? how do you know when to adjust a vent here and there without knowing what the actual temp is in the cooker?

Bill,

You want to know all my secrets without paying $19.95 for Low & Slow, geeesh, buy a book for gosh sakes.

Sight - Color and volume of smoke coming out of the vent.
Smell - Burning smell, toasty carmelization aroma, neutral odor.
Sound - Is the fire crackling, do you hear sizzling fat on the waterpan.
Touch - Hold your hand over the vent, with a little practice you can tell general range of temperature quite easily. In addition, when I check temp in this fashion I smell the exhaust for signs of how the fire is burning.
Taste - Obviously one can not taste temperature, but a small nibble of the outside of a pork shoulder can speak volumes about fire management.

These clues extend to when the meat is done as well, for example a properly done pork shoulder will slump upon itself, the bone will twist easily and a two tined meat fork slides easily into the pig flesh.

Once again, this takes practice, the 5-lessons are designed to start one along the path of 5-senses BBQ cookery.

Regards,
Gary

im not fishing for secrets gary as im happy with my methods..like you it took many years of practice ( on a variety of smoker types ) and its been very successful for me and really not all that much different than yours or anyone elses when it comes to low and slow cooking
Im just discussing bbq and wanted to know how one would measure cooker temp like that and why it would be frowned upon to have a more accurate measure..thanks for answering
and again i was referring to cooker temp monitoring not meat temp monitoring
you keep adding in how to tell when meats done..completely different thing IMO and not what I was asking.

abf005 wrote:You know I dont use a watch to tell time either, since they are too functional and techie. But since my electric does all the thinking, I never check the temps either...

heretic.

jimswside wrote:

abf005 wrote:You know I dont use a watch to tell time either, since they are too functional and techie. But since my electric does all the thinking, I never check the temps either...

heretic.

I know right?? LOL Just to throw a little gas on those wood fires...

Jim, just stick in that temp probe, wiggle it all over, make it hit the bone too!

But you'll sleep soundly knowing that you knew what the heck was going on while it cooked.

Head's Red BBQ wrote:

stevez wrote:

Head's Red BBQ wrote:no assumptions or what temp you cook at ..Im just asking a very specific question..
how does one monitor cooker temp by look and feel on a WSM?. In other words how does one sense heat levels by sight or feel on a wsm? You just light your fire ..set your vents and thats it? how do you know when to adjust a vent here and there without knowing what the actual temp is in the cooker?

I can't answer for how Gary does it, but I'm able to very accurately judge the temp simply by holding my hand over the top vent and feeling the amount of heat coming out. This works for me even on the hottest or coldest days of the year. I also know that if it's real windy, for example, I've got to adjust the position of the bottom vents or at least the amount I open or close them. As Gary said, practice, practice, practice.

well at least thats an answer to the question Steve.
Im sure that method gets you in the ballpark temp wise.. very accurately? im not so convinced..but thanks for the input ..

How accurate do you need to be? It's BBQ, for goodness sake. I'm probably accurate to within less than 25 degrees using the hand check method, I'd venture to say. I started out on an offset as well, and I'd agree that it takes much more futzing than a WSM to maintain temp, but once you know your cooker (there's that practice thing again), all you (or I should say I) care about is if it's running at it's normal temp (whatever that might be) and burning cleanly. If not, I adjust accordingly.

About the only time I use anything resembling a thermometer is when I'm cooking a rib roast or some other cut of meat that I want to come out rare or medium rare. In that case, I'll insert an instant read thermometer into the meat when I think it's about done to make sure.

abf005 wrote:But since my electric does all the thinking, I never check the temps either...

Yes, but we're talking about BBQ, not baking (ducking).

abf005 wrote:
I know right?? LOL Just to throw a little gas on those wood fires...

Jim, just stick in that temp probe, wiggle it all over, make it hit the bone too!

But you'll sleep soundly knowing that you knew what the heck was going on while it cooked.

good one ... the probe only goes in boneless items, like a potato, brisket or a beef roast,

you saw my rickety ol' offset that leaks like a sieve, I had to do something to monitor my temps. Other wise I'd be turning out jerky if I was too low, or nursing home food if it was too high..

stevez wrote:

abf005 wrote:But since my electric does all the thinking, I never check the temps either...

Yes, but we're talking about BBQ, not baking (ducking).

I would have been disappointed if you had stated otherwise, I expect no less from you guys...

Steve

how do you know if your hand temp is even accurate if youve never used a therm? you have no frame of reference???
i guess i just need to practice more

Head's Red BBQ wrote:Steve

how do you know if your hand temp is even accurate if youve never used a therm? you have no frame of reference???
i guess i just need to practice more

The whole point of the hand check is to know what the heat feels like when the pit is running properly. If it's too hot, close down the airflow. Too cool, open it up. The absolute temp doesn't matter; consistency does. Let me ask you this, have you ever seen a pit man in any vaunted BBQ spot from the Carolinas to Texas check his pit's temp with a thermometer? Of course not. They know their pits so well, they don't need no stinkin' thermometer. Either do I. Admittedly, this probably wasn't quite as true when I was first learning...but that was many years ago.

jimswside wrote:

abf005 wrote:
I know right?? LOL Just to throw a little gas on those wood fires...

Jim, just stick in that temp probe, wiggle it all over, make it hit the bone too!

But you'll sleep soundly knowing that you knew what the heck was going on while it cooked.

good one ... the probe only goes in boneless items, like a potato, brisket or a beef roast,

you saw my rickety ol' offset that leaks like a sieve, I had to do something to monitor my temps. Other wise I'd be turning out jerky if I was too low, or nursing home food if it was too high..

Yeah, I saw it, and IMO you were turning out some pretty decent Que on too.

If technology (and calling a therm is not advanced technology at that) is going to help you control the cooker, then it is completely justifiable to use a tool to ensure both food safety and cooking consistency. Its that simple.

Every rig and cooker is different, and many times there are differences even between cookers of the same brand and model. I've known you long enough to know that you use that offset damn near every other day, so I'm 100% sure you know what to watch for on it by now.

Just my 2 cents.

stevez wrote:

Head's Red BBQ wrote:Steve

how do you know if your hand temp is even accurate if youve never used a therm? you have no frame of reference???
i guess i just need to practice more

The whole point of the hand check is to know what the heat feels like when the pit is running properly. If it's too hot, close down the airflow. Too cool, open it up. The absolute temp doesn't matter; consistency does. Let me ask you this, have you ever seen a pit man in any vaunted BBQ spot from the Carolinas to Texas check his pit's temp with a thermometer? Of course not. They know their pits so well, they don't need no stinkin' thermometer. Either do I. Admittedly, this probably wasn't quite as true when I was first learning...but that was many years ago.

Well I use a thermometer too. Given that, I guess you guys don't think much of the BBQ Guru.

Muttster wrote:

stevez wrote:

Head's Red BBQ wrote:Steve

how do you know if your hand temp is even accurate if youve never used a therm? you have no frame of reference???
i guess i just need to practice more

The whole point of the hand check is to know what the heat feels like when the pit is running properly. If it's too hot, close down the airflow. Too cool, open it up. The absolute temp doesn't matter; consistency does. Let me ask you this, have you ever seen a pit man in any vaunted BBQ spot from the Carolinas to Texas check his pit's temp with a thermometer? Of course not. They know their pits so well, they don't need no stinkin' thermometer. Either do I. Admittedly, this probably wasn't quite as true when I was first learning...but that was many years ago.

Well I use a thermometer too. Given that, I guess you guys don't think much of the BBQ Guru.

I'm my own BBQ Guru. I haven't seen the need for another.

stevez wrote:
The whole point of the hand check is to know what the heat feels like when the pit is running properly. If it's too hot, close down the airflow. Too cool, open it up. The absolute temp doesn't matter; consistency does. Let me ask you this, have you ever seen a pit man in any vaunted BBQ spot from the Carolinas to Texas check his pit's temp with a thermometer? Of course not. They know their pits so well, they don't need no stinkin' thermometer. Either do I. Admittedly, this probably wasn't quite as true when I was first learning...but that was many years ago.

well I guess that all depends on the pit those pit men are using....some have the therms built in.
IMO though if the tools are out there and people choose to use them whats the big deal? It doesnt make it any less BBQ than those who dont..
Man ......ask the time people tell ya how to build a watch

Head's Red BBQ wrote:

stevez wrote:
The whole point of the hand check is to know what the heat feels like when the pit is running properly. If it's too hot, close down the airflow. Too cool, open it up. The absolute temp doesn't matter; consistency does. Let me ask you this, have you ever seen a pit man in any vaunted BBQ spot from the Carolinas to Texas check his pit's temp with a thermometer? Of course not. They know their pits so well, they don't need no stinkin' thermometer. Either do I. Admittedly, this probably wasn't quite as true when I was first learning...but that was many years ago.

well I guess that all depends on the pit those pit men are using....some have the therms built in.
IMO though if the tools are out there and people choose to use them whats the big deal? It doesnt make it any less BBQ than those who dont..
Man ......ask the time people tell ya how to build a watch

I've got no problem with how anyone chooses to cook BBQ. Different techniques are what makes the world go around. Of course, I may have a problem with the resulting meat in some cases. There are some great BBQ people who post here and they use a variety of methods to turn out some mighty fine BBQ. This whole discussion was in response to your query as to how to cook on a WSM without using a thermometer. I'm not passing judgment on any one else's technique, although I really do feel that the more you know your cooker, the less you need to rely on instruments to turn out good BBQ. Whether you choose to do so or not is a personal decision.

Im just asking a very specific question..how does one monitor cooker temp by look and feel on a WSM?

how do you know if your hand temp is even accurate if youve never used a therm? you have no frame of reference???

I kind of think eating it provides a pretty good frame of reference.

Mike G wrote:

how do you know if your hand temp is even accurate if youve never used a therm? you have no frame of reference???

I kind of think eating it provides a pretty good frame of reference.

Eating what? Hands?

Eating and cooking have no direct connection other than the most obvious. In other words, you can be the most prolific eater ever and still not be able to cook worth a damn.

I think he means eating his own final product.. you can generally tell based on that whether the meat was cooked at too high a temp/too low a temp. Gives you some calibration for your hand, nose, etc.

I use a chargriller offset, primitive as it may be, and pretty much know that directly under my temp probe at grill level it will always be about 10 to 15 degrees hotter than the grill top thermometer says. To the left/far side it will be 10 to 15 below that and closer to the heat it will be more variable, but indefinitely hotter depending on the amount of wood and lump in the fire. I move the meat around as appropriate depending on what I"m cooking and what temp I'm looking for. I do keep an oven therm in the middle just for a sanity check but really as long as everything is moving along in accordance with my experience I have no reason to suspect that science has changed and 225 suddenly became 425 so I see Gary's point in not needing a therm. He knows the signals, he can tell if somethings off or not right. It doesn't matter if the temp fluctuates a bit because if over the time of the entire cook you keep things in the range you want for your results everything will be just fine, there is no need to have it down to a pure science. Hell I enjoy toying with the fire, having a scotch and a cigar and putzing around the smoker alot more than I do trying to mantain some perfect temperature. As long as thing's stay in an acceptable range and the end result is delicous I call it a mission accomplished.

I think he means eating his own final product.. you can generally tell based on that whether the meat was cooked at too high a temp/too low a temp. Gives you some calibration for your hand, nose, etc.

More than that, I just really question this whole notion that you can calibrate a piece of meat to the nth degree like this. A cake, maybe, but not a piece of meat where muscle fiber density, degree of marbling, size and placement of bone, or who knows what all can produce radically different cook times and behavior. I'm with Stevez that 25 degrees one way or the other is all the more accurate you need to get; beyond that, what you need to be reading is the condition of the meat, not the numbers on a dial.


We don't need no stinking thermometers.

gleam wrote:I think he means eating his own final product.. you can generally tell based on that whether the meat was cooked at too high a temp/too low a temp. Gives you some calibration for your hand, nose, etc.

Gleem! Its been awhile, good to see you landed here.

I think in the context of this scenario, heads red has been looking at temp control determined during the cooking and not after its served.

As in, just how does an ungloved hand tell the difference in a cooking chamber temps that can range from 225 to 300 by holding ones hand over the damper?

abf005 wrote:

gleam wrote:I think he means eating his own final product.. you can generally tell based on that whether the meat was cooked at too high a temp/too low a temp. Gives you some calibration for your hand, nose, etc.

Gleem! Its been awhile, good to see you landed here.

I think in the context of this scenario, heads red has been looking at temp control determined during the cooking and not after its served.

As in, just how does an ungloved hand tell the difference in a cooking chamber temps that can range from 225 to 300 by holding ones hand over the damper?

you get it Burt!..thank you!.. that was the ACTUAL question..even though ive been told answers ranging from the the zen and art of BBQ to how to tell when the meat is done to how Gary likes to fiddle with his vents while having a cigar and drinking

I think everyone gets that that's your actual question, but their actual answer is, "Doesn't really matter."

abf005 wrote:

If technology (and calling a therm is not advanced technology at that) is going to help you control the cooker, then it is completely justifiable to use a tool to ensure both food safety and cooking consistency. Its that simple.

Every rig and cooker is different, and many times there are differences even between cookers of the same brand and model. I've known you long enough to know that you use that offset damn near every other day, so I'm 100% sure you know what to watch for on it by now.

exactly, I just started using a probe in the last 2 months, and have finally started turning out bbq I am really proud of(not solely because of the probe, but from guidance from Gary's book, and the website smokingmeatforums.com). The probe confirmed the thermometer on the hood of my offset smoker is useless, and is just a plug for the hole they should have never drilled @ the factory. With the probe I saw how wide the temps varied on the chargriller if I didnt stay ontop of the fuel, and vents etc. It also convinced me to make modifications to my smoker that also leveled out the temp peaks and valleys(200 degrees to 300 degrees at times) I was experiencing.

I enjoy the debate bbq generates, and I also enjoy the different methods, and ideas expressed. I will restate, as long as you are not boiling, baking , or cooking your meat in a crock pot and calling it BBQ, all is good, its all about the smoke ring in my eyes, if you got that youv'e made bbq.

Mike G wrote:I think everyone gets that that's your actual question, but their actual answer is, "Doesn't really matter."

sigh.....

sigh.....

Likewise, I assure you.

jimswside wrote:

abf005 wrote:

If technology (and calling a therm is not advanced technology at that) is going to help you control the cooker, then it is completely justifiable to use a tool to ensure both food safety and cooking consistency. Its that simple.

Every rig and cooker is different, and many times there are differences even between cookers of the same brand and model. I've known you long enough to know that you use that offset damn near every other day, so I'm 100% sure you know what to watch for on it by now.

exactly, I just started using a probe in the last 2 months, and have finally started turning out bbq I am really proud of(not solely because of the probe, but from guidance from Gary's book, and the website smokingmeatforums.com). The probe confirmed the thermometer on the hood of my offset smoker is useless, and is just a plug for the hole they should have never drilled @ the factory. With the probe I saw how wide the temps varied on the chargriller if I didnt stay ontop of the fuel, and vents etc. It also convinced me to make modifications to my smoker that also leveled out the temp peaks and valleys(200 degrees to 300 degrees at times) I was experiencing.

I enjoy the debate bbq generates, and I also enjoy the different methods, and ideas expressed. I will restate, as long as you are not boiling, baking , or cooking your meat in a crock pot and calling it BBQ, all is good, its all about the smoke ring in my eyes, if you got that youv'e made bbq.

I agree Jim ...

jimswside wrote:its all about the smoke ring in my eyes, if you got that youv'e made bbq.

Of course, all you need for the smoke ring is the presence of carbon monoxide.. no smoke required

gleam wrote:

jimswside wrote:its all about the smoke ring in my eyes, if you got that youv'e made bbq.

Of course, all you need for the smoke ring is the presence of carbon monoxide.. no smoke required

How true - people get so hung up on the "smoke ring" in the same way that they perseverate on "grill marks" as the true mark of a master. While that can be a good indicator of properly cooked BBQ or grilling, I have tasted some pretty dry brisket that had a great smoke ring. In fact, in some of the electric smokers, people will add a brickette or two to get a smoke ring as the unit normally doesn't produce a significant ring due to its heat source.

Rich - "I'm a Big Green Egg and I use a thermometer"

I am no chemist, but from what understand it is a chemical reaction of the Nitrogen Dioxide(from the burning wood), and its interaction with the meat pigment myoglobin. The N02 is abosrbed into the meat creating nitric acid.. voilla .. smoke ring.

Most bbq folks I met seem to appreciate a smoke ring, I know thats what I look for, and strive for with each cook.





different strokes.

Muttster wrote:

gleam wrote:

jimswside wrote:its all about the smoke ring in my eyes, if you got that youv'e made bbq.

Of course, all you need for the smoke ring is the presence of carbon monoxide.. no smoke required

How true - people get so hung up on the "smoke ring" in the same way that they perseverate on "grill marks" as the true mark of a master. While that can be a good indicator of properly cooked BBQ or grilling, I have tasted some pretty dry brisket that had a great smoke ring. In fact, in some of the electric smokers, people will add a briquette or two to get a smoke ring as the unit normally doesn't produce a significant ring due to its heat source.

Rich - "I'm a Big Green Egg and I use a thermometer"

I proudly cook with electrics. And I love what comes out of it, so I no longer need the security blanket of seeing a smoke ring to know whether or not I got great smoke penetration.

Muttster is correct, the fact is that a single briquette will do the trick, or Morton's tender quick in your rub can get you there too, but the trick also works for any smoker, gas included. This is a BBQ black hole subject; go to any major BBQ site and there will be thread running on the merits or fallacies of the smoke ring.

I agree with Jim on most sunny days and even on some of the overcast ones too. And Jim is correct on what the reaction is and what causes it.

But BBQ rings are more about looks and presentation than they are about the taste. Since smoke rings themselves have no flavor, your only proving what the depth of the chemical reaction was to your final product.

Now if anyone wants to try a taste test blindfolded, putting one smoked meat with a ring against one without, be my guest, and report back your findings. I doubt anyone can identify even 2 out of 10.

Now getting good grill marks is entirely another matter!!