ronnie_suburban wrote:I generally wait for these folks to be (unoffically) vetted before I spend a lot of time replying to them.
=R=

Could you clarify what you mean by "(unofficially) vetted"?

Darren72 wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:I generally wait for these folks to be (unoffically) vetted before I spend a lot of time replying to them.
=R=

Could you clarify what you mean by "(unofficially) vetted"?

I wait to see if they post again (on any other topics) and/or how they respond to questions posed of them. For me personally, that's a form of vetting.

=R=

That seems very true. Shills rarely seem to respond to any follow-up questions as they have no real interest in the conversation and have completed their mission just by posting the first time.

except jesteinf, who just won't give up

Kennyz wrote:except jesteinf, who just won't give up

Damn you, Kennyz!

Another serious and thoughtful thread OP'd by Hammond. Wish I could clone you DH and put you in some of my intro philosophy classes to show the kiddos how to do it.

One of my early posts, completely smart-assedly, I tangled with Antonius. People dealt with me undeservedly fairly and gently. As I look back, now, it's clear just how different, how far above and beyond, LTH is. Whew, I'm glad you let me live back then, when I deserved not to...

On a relevant follow-up note: On my recent retreat from Montréal to KC, I ate three sought-after meals, two based upon LTH recommendations, one on Chowhound's recce. The LTH recommendations (Charlie the Butcher's in Buffalo, La Reyna in Iowa City) were simply excellent. Vis à vis Chowhound's proposal, it turned out, quite unfortunately, that "Well, it looks like my choice is between Chowhound's recommendation and Olive Garden--is that a no-brainer or what?" is NOT a rhetorical question.

Geo

If I could point out the flip side to this issue: we often forget to respond positively to something we do like. I know I am as guilty as anyone (though once it was pointed out to me, and I've tried to do better) of reading a post, enjoying it, and then sheepishly sidling off to elsewhere on the internet without comment.

For some reason it feels weird and uncomfortable to post "right on!" or "delicious!" or even "thank you," especially when I feel like everything that can be said has been said (often, better than I can say it.) From personal experience, though, reading what readers have to say, however detailed or simple, really feels good.

Mhays wrote:If I could point out the flip side to this issue: we often forget to respond positively to something we do like. I know I am as guilty as anyone (though once it was pointed out to me, and I've tried to do better) of reading a post, enjoying it, and then sheepishly sidling off to elsewhere on the internet without comment.

For some reason it feels weird and uncomfortable to post "right on!" or "delicious!" or even "thank you," especially when I feel like everything that can be said has been said (often, better than I can say it.) From personal experience, though, reading what readers have to say, however detailed or simple, really feels good.

[sarcacm free zone]
As one of many recipients of your wide-ranging praise, Mhays, thank you.

And right on!
[/sarcasm free zone]

(I had to edit this to add the zone. I re-read it 4 times and it still seemed facetious)

Mhays wrote:If I could point out the flip side to this issue: we often forget to respond positively to something we do like. I know I am as guilty as anyone (though once it was pointed out to me, and I've tried to do better) of reading a post, enjoying it, and then sheepishly sidling off to elsewhere on the internet without comment.

For some reason it feels weird and uncomfortable to post "right on!" or "delicious!" or even "thank you," especially when I feel like everything that can be said has been said (often, better than I can say it.) From personal experience, though, reading what readers have to say, however detailed or simple, really feels good.

I have observed a tacit appreciation for each others efforts. A benevolent quid pro quo: the community did me a favor and I offer something in return. If there was proper acknowledgement to every post, LTH would have more than double the posts and seemingly empty of content.

If you genuinely feel something merits a comment, then do it. If you are doing so because of some sense of obligation, don't because someone else eventually will. Yes, sometimes it is four years later like the recent response to a Rene G post. Yet it was a genuine response, the kind that motivates you to press on.

There was a poster whose posts largely were contentless who then had a series of posts with the sole message: "Thank you." People would not click onto the most recent post if this screen name was present. Later they discovered they missed important information in their efforts to avoid this poster.

Plus there is always the PM system to offer an expression of appreciation, too.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:

Mhays wrote:If I could point out the flip side to this issue: we often forget to respond positively to something we do like. I know I am as guilty as anyone (though once it was pointed out to me, and I've tried to do better) of reading a post, enjoying it, and then sheepishly sidling off to elsewhere on the internet without comment.

For some reason it feels weird and uncomfortable to post "right on!" or "delicious!" or even "thank you," especially when I feel like everything that can be said has been said (often, better than I can say it.) From personal experience, though, reading what readers have to say, however detailed or simple, really feels good.

I have observed a tacit appreciation for each others efforts. A benevolent quid pro quo: the community did me a favor and I offer something in return. If there was proper acknowledgement to every post, LTH would have more than double the posts and seemingly empty of content.

If you genuinely feel something merits a comment, then do it. If you are doing so because of some sense of obligation, don't because someone else eventually will. Yes, sometimes it is four years later like the recent response to a Rene G post. Yet it was a genuine response, the kind that motivates you to press on.

There was a poster whose posts largely were contentless who then had a series of posts with the sole message: "Thank you." People would not click onto the most recent post if this screen name was present. Later they discovered they missed important information in their efforts to avoid this poster.

Plus there is always the PM system to offer an expression of appreciation, too.

Regards,

Maybe it's just me, but I'm noticing in particular these days that as a community, we are tending more towards fisticuffs than support. It seems that content-heavy posts are going without much comment, while the ones of a more adversarial or snarky nature are getting to be pages and pages long.

While I have no say in the matter, I'm not sure that I agree with the quote above. While I do agree that no one should post solely from a sense of obligation, I wonder if we are unintentionally creating a less-than-friendly atmosphere by narrowing responses only to substantive information or strong opinion.

Mhays wrote:

Cathy2 wrote:

Mhays wrote:If I could point out the flip side to this issue: we often forget to respond positively to something we do like. I know I am as guilty as anyone (though once it was pointed out to me, and I've tried to do better) of reading a post, enjoying it, and then sheepishly sidling off to elsewhere on the internet without comment.

For some reason it feels weird and uncomfortable to post "right on!" or "delicious!" or even "thank you," especially when I feel like everything that can be said has been said (often, better than I can say it.) From personal experience, though, reading what readers have to say, however detailed or simple, really feels good.

I have observed a tacit appreciation for each others efforts. A benevolent quid pro quo: the community did me a favor and I offer something in return. If there was proper acknowledgement to every post, LTH would have more than double the posts and seemingly empty of content.

If you genuinely feel something merits a comment, then do it. If you are doing so because of some sense of obligation, don't because someone else eventually will. Yes, sometimes it is four years later like the recent response to a Rene G post. Yet it was a genuine response, the kind that motivates you to press on.

There was a poster whose posts largely were contentless who then had a series of posts with the sole message: "Thank you." People would not click onto the most recent post if this screen name was present. Later they discovered they missed important information in their efforts to avoid this poster.

Plus there is always the PM system to offer an expression of appreciation, too.

Regards,

Maybe it's just me, but I'm noticing in particular these days that as a community, we are tending more towards fisticuffs than support. It seems that content-heavy posts are going without much comment, while the ones of a more adversarial or snarky nature are getting to be pages and pages long.

While I have no say in the matter, I'm not sure that I agree with the quote above. While I do agree that no one should post solely from a sense of obligation, I wonder if we are unintentionally creating a less-than-friendly atmosphere by narrowing responses only to substantive information or strong opinion.

Interesting. While I don't remember the thread, one of the first posts I read on LTH spoke of the "thank you" or "yep" posts taking up too much space and were looked down upon. While that didn't give me the best impression of this place, I am a member on another board where the glad handing has gotten so out of control it's hard to wade through it. I try put in a thanks or compliment along with a follow up in hopes of having some balance. I am however one of the newer posters who is still getting the lay of the land-check back in one year.

Mhays wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I'm noticing in particular these days that as a community, we are tending more towards fisticuffs than support. It seems that content-heavy posts are going without much comment, while the ones of a more adversarial or snarky nature are getting to be pages and pages long.

It's not just you. It's sadly true--from where I sit. Plus, mindless topics are going on for pages as we all indulge our inner juvenile (e.g., The Money Shot thread). I am as guilty as others but would love to see this stuff just disappear.

Mhays wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I'm noticing in particular these days that as a community, we are tending more towards fisticuffs than support. It seems that content-heavy posts are going without much comment, while the ones of a more adversarial or snarky nature are getting to be pages and pages long.

While I have no say in the matter, I'm not sure that I agree with the quote above. While I do agree that no one should post solely from a sense of obligation, I wonder if we are unintentionally creating a less-than-friendly atmosphere by narrowing responses only to substantive information or strong opinion.

Michele, I agree with you entirely. LTH has felt like a less and less friendly place. I've tried my best to communicate my appreciation for thoughtful posts via PM/email--though I sometimes slip and do it in-thread--because there does seem to be a dominant attitude on the board that such gratitude is a waste of space. The upside of this of course is that I've gotten to know some LTHers entirely off the board and have had engaging and illuminating conversations about food; it's just sad that those discussions have been closed to the rest of the community.

Gypsy Boy wrote:It's not just you. It's sadly true--from where I sit. Plus, mindless topics are going on for pages as we all indulge our inner juvenile (e.g., The Money Shot thread). I am as guilty as others but would love to see this stuff just disappear.

I will also confess, just having gotten to read the Money Shot thread, that I do very much enjoy such threads occasionally. First, they are funny, but also there's a spirit to those threads--of discussion and responsiveness to each other and dynamism, a kind of team work, if you will--that I wish I saw more often on the board, especially when the subject matter is less playful. I'm all for thoughtful disagreements and debate, but the reigning snarkiness just makes me sad.

I didn't feel so welcomed when I first joined.

One example was when I asked about a place's hours in a thread and someone snidely replied something like 'My ingenious solution of calling the place has revealed that they close at 10:00.'

Another example is when I wrote about drinking a bottle of 'ganache' instead of 'grenache,' and was corrected in a really smart-ass way, instead of either lightly poking fun or just letting the typo slide.

To me, it just gave the forum a general sense of uptightness.

i<3pizza wrote:One example was when I asked about a place's hours in a thread and someone snidely replied something like 'My ingenious solution of calling the place has revealed that they close at 10:00.'

That wasn't me, but I applaud whoever wrote that. Why would you ask us when you could ask the restaurant?

When he was interviewed on air and taking calls from the audience, Roger Ebert made a point of never answering questions of fact. You want to know the name of the key grip on Sunset Boulevard? Look it up.

This forum is most valuable as a repository for analysis, opinion and the presentation of facts that are not easily accessible through regular internet searches ("What kind of cheese did they used to put on the New York burger?"). In that sense, the Eternal Question of "Where shall we eat Saturday night" is more useful than "Does the place take reservations." The latter is the kind of question that is basically asking members of the forum to do the legwork that the poster could have done him or herself.

I know where gleam is coming from and although my response to such fact-based, internet-answerable questions is to just roll my eyes and roll by, I understand how some might respond with no small sense of pique. My feeling is that, when a poster naively asks a question that could be answered with a search or phone call, that it's best to just let it be...and who knows, it may give some other poster some small joy to act as an encyclopedia of readily accessible facts.

To be sure, LTHForum seems to get a case of cabin fever and turn crabby every January or so. I could dig out old examples, but I'd hate to reignite the controversies of 2006. So I at least am less inclined to see a terminal condition in a seasonal affliction.

That said, as the saying goes only you can prevent Forrest Tucker, and it's up to anyone who participates to make LTHForum into whatever it will be. When the liveliest thread is about the attitude of some Chicago restaurateurs as discussed in the New York Times, as was the case a few weeks ago, it's pretty hard to believe that LTHForum is making a significant contribution, or any, to understanding the food scene first-hand. That's the point at which any of us should take a step back from the computer, go outside (that light! It's so bright!), and explore the world in which we live and report back here.

That could mean finding something new, but it could also just mean actually trying a place that someone else has turned up and adding your own experience to the knowledge base. Too often such things go unresponded to because no one simply bothers to follow them up (or more pathetically, because there's some clique that wouldn't want to respond to that person). Cathy is right, certainly, that nobody wants to see a string of content-less "thanks!" posts; but if you find it interesting enough to say thanks, you should find it interesting enough to want to try for yourself, and that won't be content-less.

Here are ten worthy threads of late in which someone called attention to something new in an interesting way. If everyone went out and followed up on one of them, and posted about it, it would be a new golden age at LTHForum. For a week, anyway.

Jezzie's Pearl
Bulgarian at Mehanata
Kati rolls
Danny's
Ameer Kabob
Amelia's
Bolat African Cuisine
Polleria Fina Estampa
Pticek's Bakery
Supermercado Taquerias

gleam wrote:

i<3pizza wrote:One example was when I asked about a place's hours in a thread and someone snidely replied something like 'My ingenious solution of calling the place has revealed that they close at 10:00.'

That wasn't me, but I applaud whoever wrote that. Why would you ask us when you could ask the restaurant?

No surprise to anyone I'm sure, that was me

As a newish member who has alternatively been entertained and a bit taken aback by some of the comments I've seen from some of the more active participants, I have this perspective (for what it's worth--for some that will be "0"):

1) This is a community--not a collection of clones. There are a lot of different people here and just like in any group, you'll have a wide array of personalities--some known for their compassion, others for their intellect, others for their wit, etc. I don't think the Board is snarky or unwelcoming--there are just a few folks whose communication style, sense of humor, etc. may manifest that way here. Sometimes I think it's funny. Sometimes I roll my eyes. Sometimes I feel badly for the poster on the receiving end of the snark. Depending on the day and my frame of mind, that could be my response to the same post.

My feeling is that, just as you probably wouldn't drop out of a book club or a softball team because of one or two folks whose comments you may occasionally be annoyed by, if the general experience was positive and it was an activity that you enjoyed, you'd probably just learn to tune out those with whom you were less enthralled.

2) Mike G's suggestion is excellent and as one of the leaders of this community, I'm not saying "thanks" because I think it's the responsibility of those leaders to occasionally step in and positively re-direct when the conversation (or the time of year) degenerates into something dark or unproductive. That and we're not supposed to say "thank you" on a thread

3) I found this board during the holidays when I was struggling to start a new consulting business at a time of year when no one wants to talk to consultants. It was such a fascinating place to immerse myself--educational, entertaining, motivating. While it was clearly a group of VERY diverse folks, how fascinating to find a local group so passionate about food--eating it, making it, shopping for it, sharing it and, most of all, talking about it. Even though you're not supposed to, I couldn't possibly PM everyone I read on here who provided me with something valuable so I'm sayin' it here--THANKS!

Mhays wrote:If I could point out the flip side to this issue: we often forget to respond positively to something we do like. I know I am as guilty as anyone (though once it was pointed out to me, and I've tried to do better) of reading a post, enjoying it, and then sheepishly sidling off to elsewhere on the internet without comment.

For some reason it feels weird and uncomfortable to post "right on!" or "delicious!" or even "thank you," especially when I feel like everything that can be said has been said (often, better than I can say it.) From personal experience, though, reading what readers have to say, however detailed or simple, really feels good.

I have to say that it isn't you. This place at times can feel very unfriendly. Whether that is intentional or just because it is sometimes hard to gauge ones tone in this format is something I am not sure of. It's hard to remember sometimes that plenty of people, especially new ones, don't always step out onto a board and know what to expect. The eagerness to participate and get involved can sometimes lead to questions that might be viewed as useless (i.e why ask when you can google).

gleam wrote:

i<3pizza wrote:One example was when I asked about a place's hours in a thread and someone snidely replied something like 'My ingenious solution of calling the place has revealed that they close at 10:00.'

That wasn't me, but I applaud whoever wrote that. Why would you ask us when you could ask the restaurant?

I definitely understand your point, the whole 'let me Google that for you' thing. I thought of the question more as just making conversation, if that makes sense. Just pushing a little further the line on the other side of which is people giving friendly answers to questions like 'Have Great Lake's hours changed?'.

I agree with Mike G wholeheartedly. As a new poster and longer lurker I have a few things to say on this topic.
- I was welcomed nicely when I made my first post. If it had been a case of *crickets* I would have been disheartened because you guys can be an intimidating lot. That said, I agree that too much noise of "thanks, good post" is annoying for those who just want to get to the meat of the matter. So it's a matter of balance.
-I post a lot on Chowhound and this seasonal grumpiness thing happens there too*. All of a sudden a bunch of newbies find the site and start posting content-free garbage. Then all of us veterans roll our eyes and bemoan the state of the board when what we should do is get out there and explore and post and show the n00bs how it's done. Luckily 90% of the time these content-free posters get bored and go somewhere else.
-MY own greatest pet peeve is the request for information that a quick phone call to the restaurant (or google map, or wikipedia ... ) would answer. Those posts typically get snarked and I think they should. It's not warm and fuzzy but these cretins must learn.

*except it seems to be more a year-round phenomenon on CH.

Edited to add: I like the chattery silly threads like the Money Shot. I first got interested in LTH because of PizzaBoy, and even though that wasn't particularly insightful or content rich, I felt I got to know some of you a little bit and that took away some of the intimidation factor when I screwed up my courage to post.

Hi,

For those who followed this board from the get-go, there was a vapid poster who had multiple posts stating simply, "Thank you." People would see this screen name as the last poster, then decide never to open it. They later learned there was information in prior posts to this poster they missed and wanted to know.

You can offer an appreciation as well as ask them a question or offer information the poster may find interesting. Last night I complimented a poster on walking off the beaten track to locate a restaurant. I also offered some information I knew of the neighborhood and highlighted a few posters who had explored this area, too.

I do use the PM system to encourage posters. Sometimes people ask questions on how to make something or where to go, then never follow up with a report. I will sometimes send the person a PM to encourage a follow up and express my delight in their original post. More often then not, they do come back with some report on their efforts.

Believe it or not, as many posts as I have to my account, I have probably written twice more and ditched. Why? I often say to myself, "Let someone else get their word in, too." Frequently, someone else also asks that question or offers an opinion mirroring mine. I'm happy I didn't reply when it happens. Later, I can come back and ask, if it is still burning on my mind.

On LTH, content is king.

As a new poster and longer lurker I have a few things to say on this topic.
- I was welcomed nicely when I made my first post. If it had been a case of *crickets* I would have been disheartened because you guys can be an intimidating lot.

Seven or eight years ago, when I first engaged on Chowhound, I was nearly the only poster from my area. Everyone was from Chicago it seemed. I often received no replies, but I kept it up anyway. Later, I found people did go to places I recommended and liked it, too. I was immensely flattered they ate food suggested by me. I learned that some places it is only a matter of time. Once you find someone felt the same joy as you did, it drives you further to do more. It is following a posters path by going there and trying it is a much higher level of appreciation to everyone involved.

Regards,

I was welcomed nicely when I made my first post. If it had been a case of *crickets* I would have been disheartened

Anyone who has felt that way— which is probably everybody who's posted more than a few times— should look at the Seklycia thread.

Rene G first posted about it on December 23, 2006. A mere three years and one month later, I followed in his footsteps!

This thread explains a lot about LTH I didn't understand, even after lurking on and off for about a year.

Thanks.

Mike G wrote:

I was welcomed nicely when I made my first post. If it had been a case of *crickets* I would have been disheartened

Anyone who has felt that way— which is probably everybody who's posted more than a few times— should look at the Seklycia thread.

Rene G first posted about it on December 23, 2006. A mere three years and one month later, I followed in his footsteps!

good point Mike, threads and posts get read even though they might not get an instant response, or any response at all.

I was pleasently shocked at how many people have come up to me at the LTH picnic, and other LTH events saying they like the bbq I do, or the pics I post but dont reply on the thread or to the posts.

It sure kept & keeps me posting when I have doubts about what I am doing/posting & if it is appreciated.

I personally havent noticed any change in the tone of LTH, it is what it is.

I would urge those who may not feel welcome or may not think this forum is a friendly place to attend an event. I know this seems a little counter-intuitive, but a lot of times people's personalities don't really shine through in their writing. Once you get to know the people behind the screen names, you become more ingrained in the community, and the whole thing just makes a lot more sense.

A little weeding out is good. Why does LTHForum have to be the place where everyone is welcome? If someone posts useless crap, then gets a hard time about it and decides not to return to post more useless crap, good for us. Will there ever be some collateral damage - people who might someday have posted useful crap had they been given a chance? Sure. That's an acceptable risk, in my book. Perhaps snarkiness is one of LTHForum’s imperfections, but too much useless crap is a bigger one.

jesteinf wrote:I would urge those who may not feel welcome or may not think this forum is a friendly place to attend an event. I know this seems a little counter-intuitive, but a lot of times people's personalities don't really shine through in their writing. Once you get to know the people behind the screen names, you become more ingrained in the community, and the whole thing just makes a lot more sense.

People sometimes tell me I seem nicer in person than I do online. I'm always disappointed to hear that, as I like the online me a lot.

Kennyz wrote:People sometimes tell me I seem nicer in person than I do online. I'm always disappointed to hear that, as I like the online me a lot.

Then you should be tremendously disappointed.

Not that I have much time for LTH(and how I lament the energy I splattered on Leff's nascent Chowhound back in the day); when I do check in, I notice an increased irascibility, a convivial itch...something, je ne sais quois, what the mods used to chide me for is now, de rigueur. C'est la vie.