stevez wrote:

mkiss wrote:

Bill wrote:
I liked the meat, though the amount of fat was a bit more than I typically settle for on a sandwich; it had a great flavor (the meat).

If you look at the image of your sandwich vs the other photos that have been posted of the brisket, that brisket is fattier than I have seen or have eaten there.

Many would say that extra fatty brisket is a good thing. Myself included.

Some fat is good, but I would like to live long enough to come back to smoque

I had the pleasure of participating in a tasting of the aforementioned Berkshire pork shoulder at Smoque yesterday. In addition to the crew from Smoque, we were joined by Smoque's pork supplier, Andrew, and fellow LTH'er Villa Bob (I'm pretty sure that's his handle), who prepared an excellent, NC-style mop-sauce for the pork.

I must warn that if you're at all scared of fat, the following graphic images may not be suitable for viewing . . .



Whole, center-cut Berkshire pork shoulder. This was smoked for about 10 hours.



Smoque partner Barry Sorkin uses the "Barry Claws" to 'pull' this pork apart. It actually required very little pulling. It was so tender, it basically fell into pieces when Barry dug in, as you can see in the subsequent shots . . .


















After the pull . . . the shoulder yields only about 40%. A 5-pound haunch yielded about 2 pounds of finished meat.



Here, a bit of Bob's tangy, spicy mop-sauce is added to the pork.

The question I had going in was whether one could tell the difference between this pulled pork and standard-variety pulled pork. It was answered in an instant. The flavor of this meat was amazing -- remarkably rich and intensely porky, almost gamey.

I thought that even though it was terrific on its own, a touch of Bob's sauce, with it's sweet acidity, cut through the fat nicely and actually enhanced the meat. Right now, this product is still in development but the gang at Smoque are devising a plan for its roll-out. It'll be exciting to see what they finally come up with.

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:

I want to be buried at the bottom of a bathtub full of that and be forced to eat my way out to survive.

Any word on whether they'll start using the Berkshire pork?

bananasandwiches wrote:I want to be buried at the bottom of a bathtub full of that and be forced to eat my way out to survive.

LMAO! Get in line!

bananasandwiches wrote:Any word on whether they'll start using the Berkshire pork?

I don't know for sure but because of its higher price point and the lower yield, I get the feeling that if this Berkshire pork does make Smoque's menu, it'll be as a separate item.

=R=

ohhh smoque... my unrequited love.

sometimes they really smoke... oft times, they just 'smoque'.

no burning chunks, chips, nor chimney... only a sysco truck, pulling up on pulqaski, twice a week.

someone once wrote (hey, it wasn't me) about jews loving pork, shoud've really wrote - barry... cooking it right.

ronnie, so you had the 'pleasure'...

did you notice the recently diminished meat portions served to their customers, also?

barry doesn't 'really smoke' his meat chunk ( tacitly admitted in a chgo mag interview).

what is it, here.... the added sugar to their beans, or just an affinity for french fries, that has you raving?

this joint may have started out well with earnest intent,but it now appears to be... it's all about 'taking in your money".

patronize honey 1... there is no employee turnover, their product is really smoked and they are - for real.

Are you saying that the large southern pride smoker that they are constantly pulling meat from is not, actually, cooking or smoking the meat?

It might not be an aquarium, or a pit, but it, like other southern prides, certainly does involve smoke.

Edit: I should mention that I am not hugely impressed by Smoque, and that I am a big fan of Honey 1, but this claim seems fairly ridiculous.

jellobee, I have to agree with gleam on this. Why do you keep insisting that Smoque doesn't actually smoke it's meats when that is exactly what they do!? I call BS on your implication that the meats served at Smoque are some kind of prefabbed, mass-produced Sysco product. Have you actually stood there and monitored the meats coming out of the smokers at Smoque, and have you personally taken inventory of any items Sysco may have procured for them?

I feel quite confident that the answer is in fact, no.

Of course this is all rehashing anyway because you've already been called on it a few months back in this same thread. I and many others here have sampled the food at Smoque on several occasions and they are truly smoked meats, maybe not in the aquarium style you mistakenly believe is the only one true way to barbeque but still smoked nontheless.

Now back to the food talk...

jellobee wrote:ronnie, so you had the 'pleasure'...

did you notice the recently diminished meat portions served to their customers, also?

barry doesn't 'really smoke' his meat chunk ( tacitly admitted in a chgo mag interview).

what is it, here.... the added sugar to their beans, or just an affinity for french fries, that has you raving?

this joint may have started out well with earnest intent,but it now appears to be... it's all about 'taking in your money".

patronize honey 1... there is no employee turnover, their product is really smoked and they are - for real.

I always get a hearty chuckle out of people who believe that business owners are somehow wrong for wanting to be profitable and make money. What a silly and naive notion to drag through life. But I guess when it's someone else's money on the line, it's very easy to so noble of belief.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, which is how it should be. Opinions are diverse. Such is the beauty of food and message forums.

FWIW, I've been to Honey 1 a number of times and I like it very much. I'm not sure why you are suggesting that I must choose one place over another. That very notion seems ridiculous to me. If you don't like Smoque, don't eat there. No one's forcing you to do so.

=R=

While I have found the overall 'cue quality (and side selection) at Smoque to be preferable in taste, variety, to Honey 1, I'll most certainly be eating at Honey 1 a lot sooner than my return to Smoque simply because the wait and fight for a table is just not worth the struggle. But as soon as Smoque expands, hires more staff...

Can I start with I am so worked up that I am not going to check my spelling and this is not an english essay so if you can't stand poor grammer stop reading this and get a job as an english teacher. that said this jello guy doesn't know a thing about bbq accept how to eat it.And if he likes or dislikes it then thats great for him but he should not post things as if he is god, they are just his opinions and not law.This is FACT,the aquarim smokers suck!!!!! they are only used in cheap chicago bbq joints.a real smoker costs big money and most places dont have the cash so the use the glass crap.I am a trained chef and candy maker.I lived in mississippi and traveled all over the USA eating BBQ.I learned how to smoke meat from a few southern gents over years and hours of hard work and trial and error.I have a BBQ team that travels the USA.I have taken third place in a KCBS state championship event and place top ten multiple times.I might not be the best bbq chef in the world but at least i can back up my post with true BBQ knowledge and long hours of working a pit.No real bbq chef would use a direct heat glass crap shack.The key to real bbq is low and slow with real wood and indirect heat in the range of 200-250.I keep mine around 215-225. The meat should not taste like a campfire.It should have the taste of which ever meat you cook with the addition of spices and enhanced by the right amount of smoke.HONEY 1 is hit or miss on flavor and texture and they are overly fatty and mostly dry.I will not adress the sauce issue as that is a matter of personal taste.I dont usually read this crap but was told that people are bashing Barry @ smoque.I will cancel my account as soon as im done .I have a life and dont have time to defend one of the few places trying to educate chicagoans about true smoked meats.The southern pride is in my opinion the best way to make mass quantities of good smoked meat.No its not the old fashion outside pit like in the south but our health dept wont let you use one,so this is the best thing going.It seals in the moisture and heat and runs on real wood logs loaded on the side.Coolshack makes a good machine as well but SPride is in my opinion easier to use.I have been in over 50 BBQ kitchens from coast to coast and NEVER seen a glass smoker in any place but chicago.It is hard to make every rack of ribs or brisket consistent as the meat and fat content change from piece to piece.It all can't be perfect but smoque do as good a job as any BBQ place i've been to .Now if you dont like the flavor profile then don't go,but as far as the love and attention of detail that goes into making the food he does a great job.My hats off to the guys @ Smoque.And from the lines out the door most nites i guess people don't agree with you Jelloman.Keep up the good work and ill see ya for dinner real soon.

^Well played. By setting all the people "bashing" Smoque straight (i.e. one single person), your obviously vested interest, ill-constructed stream of consciousness rant makes the place look worse. With friends like these.....

coming from ralph wiggum ouch.i have no financial interest in smoque sorry. just doing what he cant .have a great day

pitmaster wrote:I will not adress the sauce issue as that is a matter of personal taste.

I have always maintained that EVERYTHING about BBQ is a matter of personal taste, from the use of the term to how the stuff is cooked. I have to admit it seems to inspire passion. It's a lot like religions nowadays, everyone seems to believe that the only one true real BBQ is THEIR BBQ and all the rest are infidels and unbelievers. I say to each their own, whatever gets you through the night.

pitmaster wrote:I will cancel my account as soon as im done .I have a life and dont have time to defend one of the few places trying to educate chicagoans about true smoked meats.

So much for that.

Man, what is it about barbecue? It's not like we ever get het up like this about pizza or nothin'.

Anyway, let's keep it back from the edge of getting personal. Pitmaster, if you look at the thread overall you'll see that Smoque has been largely praised and only one person has really made a claim that the Southern Pride isn't "real BBQ" or whatever. So no need to come guns-ablazing. Anyway, I think you'll find a real community of BBQ fans here if you can cool it down and others do too.

Mike G,
who just ate some leftover Smoque brisket for lunch, no joke

'jellobee' - blah blah blah...

look for a smoke ring and you won't find it.

don't call it 'que' if you can't see it, let alone, smell it.

whole foods, up north at peterson and cicero, puts out a more notable product, as yet, only a sideline.

jellobee wrote:look for a smoke ring and you won't find it.

[img]

Darn. I guess you're right.

jellobee wrote:look for a smoke ring and you won't find it.

A smoke ring doesn't necessarily mean that meat's been smoked. According to Harold McGee in On Food and Cooking (first Scribner revised edition, 2004):

On Food and Cooking, page 149 wrote:Meats cooked over wood, charcoal, or gas flames--barbecued pork or beef, for example, or even poultry cooked in a gas oven--often develop "pink ring," which reaches from the surface to a depth of 8-10mm. This is caused by nitrogen dioxide (NO2) gas, which is generated in trace amounts (parts per million) by the burning of these organic fuels. It appears that NO2 dissolves at the meat surface to form nitrous acid (HNO2), which diffuses into the muscle tissue and is converted to nitric oxide (NO). NO in turn reacts with the myoglobin to form a stable pink molecule, like the molecule found in nitrite-cured meats.

In other words, a pink ring on meat doesn't necessarily mean that it's ever been in contact with wood fuel. Slow-cooked (oven) ribs, like the kind served at some Chinese restaurants, often have a pink ring as well.

In another passage, McGee explains that it is actually the cooking process which causes the pink ring to appear, not the presence of wood fuel:

On Food and Cooking, page 149 wrote:Barbecued meat, stew meat, a pot roast, or a confit can be surprisingly pink or red inside--if it was heated very gradually and gently.

. . . when meat is heated slowly, so that it takes an hour or two to reach the denaturing temperature for myoglobin and cytochromes, the other proteins finish denaturing first, and react with each other. By the time that pigments become vulnerable, there are few other proteins left to react with them, so they stay intact and the meat stays red.

In other words, no smoke needed.

But, if even after reading the above passages, your 'standard of identity' for "real" bbq is the presence of a smoke ring, take a look at the following images of food from Smoque . . .


You can clearly see a smoke ring on the meat pictured above, especially near the portion at the bottom, center of the frame.



There's also a smoke ring on the spare ribs shown above.

Now, of course, I'm just splitting hairs. I really don't care about the smoke ring or the supposed 'validity' of Smoque's method. What's most important to me is the final product -- the food on the plate -- and Smoque produces excellent food, IMO, across the board. Not only that but I find the consistency of their product to be very high as well.

=R=

jellobee wrote:'jellobee' - blah blah blah...

look for a smoke ring and you won't find it.

don't call it 'que' if you can't see it, let alone, smell it.

whole foods, up north at peterson and cicero, puts out a more notable product, as yet, only a sideline.

Blah, Blah, Blah is right!

Smoque's meats have a smoke ring, in fact the Southern Pride smoker they use, same as Whole Foods on Peterson by the way, tends to accentuate smoke ring as the convection fan in the rotisserie can pull in ash from the smoke box. Smoke ring has to do with temperature of the meat* and the presence of ash in the smoke. Also, importantly, smoke ring is not the same as smoke flavor.

Enjoy,
Gary

*Smoke ring stops forming when the meat reaches 140°

pitmaster wrote:This is FACT,the aquarim smokers suck!!!!! they are only used in cheap chicago bbq joints.a real smoker costs big money and most places dont have the cash so the use the glass crap.

Every time I read this I laugh, it's so completely ludicrous I feel I should go on a BBQ comedy tour, maybe start in Wichita and radiate out from there. Naa, they'd probably send me packing the first stop.

Some of the best BBQ is done with catch as can equipment, cinder blocks covered with tin roofing, 55-gal oil drums, hole dug in the ground, hub cap from a semi truck, I've even heard of a turned on it's side shopping cart being used as a low and slow smoker.

Aquarium smokers don't "suck", neither do the direct pits of the Carolina's, Georgia or Hill Country of Texas. Uninformed, most likely intoxicated, opinions suck. Maybe it's you who should be sent packing to Wichita instead of me doing my BBQ comedy tour.

pitmaster wrote:I will cancel my account as soon as im done .

Either way the Bloom is off the rose.

Regards,
Gary

G Wiv wrote:[Smoque's meats have a smoke ring

Serious question, can anyone explain why the reddish-pink layer is called a smoke "ring", since there is nothing round about it? I've tried the various googling routes, all I can seem to find is that everyone seems to use the term, but no etymology.

YoYoPedro wrote:Serious question, can anyone explain why the reddish-pink layer is called a smoke "ring", since there is nothing round about it?

Pedro,

Seems likely ring comes from the fact the color rings the meat.



Enjoy,
Gary

so there's nothing intrisic of value in a apparent smoke ring....

really... other than 'evidence of proper technique, and the flavors, it brings?

so, say i got a 'southern pride' and throw in about a hundred pounds of brisket for about an hour or so and then finish it off for a slow bake in a conventional oven... would that qualify as real b-b-que?

so.... 'ronnie' laments that a business owner (most certainly) is deserving of profit for his efforts.... however, not by - misclassifying his product.

that's not the arguement here, ronnie.... i'll pay to ensure the owners' profit. just give me the real thing, sans any bullsh*t about what i'm eating..

and... others lament, that aquarium smokers suck.
talk to 'ronnie' on why that is so. it's about turning over 'product' with minimum of attention to traditional teqniques.... which is why you'll never find brisket in any of these establishments.

and as to... whole foods - using a 'southern pride" as well... correctly so, you should add.

jellobee wrote:so, say i got a 'southern pride' and throw in about a hundred pounds of brisket for about an hour or so and then finish it off for a slow bake in a conventional oven... would that qualify as real b-b-que?

Depends on who you ask, probably. FWIW, that's not how it's done at Smoque and I'm guessing that such a product probably wouldn't taste very good.

jellobee wrote:so.... 'ronnie' laments that a business owner (most certainly) is deserving of profit for his efforts.... however, not by - misclassifying his product.

that's not the arguement here, ronnie.... i'll pay to ensure the owners' profit. just give me the real thing, sans any bullsh*t about what i'm eating..

You say po-TAY-to, I say po-TAH-to.

jellobee wrote:and... others lament, that aquarium smokers suck.
talk to 'ronnie' on why that is so. it's about turning over 'product' with minimum of attention to traditional teqniques.... which is why you'll never find brisket in any of these establishments.

I wasn't involved in the above discussion about aquarium smokers. I'm not a fan nor a critic of any particular method. Good food is good food. It's not a zero-sum game, IMO.

=R=

We decided to head to Smoque from the Northern suburbs to get some pulled pork and sliced brisket. Unlike previous trips to Smoque we decided to take our three daughters with us. The kids liked the brisket and the ribs but I was very proud when my 5 year old daughter declared "these french fries are better than McDonalds!"

A neighbor of mine and another friend went to Smoque tonight; the neighbor has eaten here multiple times, this was my second visit and my other friend was making his first visit. We arrived early - 6:30 p.m. - and there were two people in line in front of us and maybe 15 people scattered about eating at tables. We ate and sat and talked for a short while after and not long after we arrived the line of people waiting to order, until the time we left, consistently averaged about 10 people - not long at all.

Since I wasn't impressed with the sliced brisket sandwich I had on my first visit I was anxious to give the pulled pork sandwich a try; I chose one side order - the mac and cheese. My experienced friend loves the pulled pork sandwich and she ordered it again this time, with a side of beans. My first-time friend gave the sliced brisket a try, and chose beans as his side.

Pulled Pork Sandwich, Cole Slaw and Macaroni and Cheese



Though I thought the meat was good, I'm getting the feeling that this isn't a style/type of cooking I prefer/like very much. To my taste buds, I prefer the pulled pork to the sliced brisket sandwich (though, one tasting of each hardly qualifies as a fair test/sampling). As I said in my earlier comments about the bread roll/bun here - I think it gets in the way of fully enjoying the meal - it seems to interfere with the taste of the meat. The mac and cheese was enjoyable as before, and I continue to think the portion stingy (but I realize that if I like it so much nobody's standing in my way preventing me from ordering more than just one helping). The friend who also ordered a pulled pork sandwich couldn't say enough good things about it, and about the beans - which I think she enjoyed the most.

Sliced Brisket Sandwich, Cole Slaw and Beans



The sliced brisket is a large sandwich, which you can see from the photo above. This particular sandwich, ordered by the other friend dining with us, looked better than the one I had about a month ago during my first visit to the restaurant. This friend, too, complimented the taste of the beans.

As we sat and talked during our meal I was struck with the feeling of how "cold" the interior of Smoque feels - institutional, cafeteria-like and not very comfortable. It very much has a fast-food restaurant atmosphere and I don't think I like it. The restaurant can get noisy - especially so when two or three small children start screaming and crying, or just having fun yelling - and the sound bounces off of the walls and ceiling. As these feelings entered my mind I recalled how comfortable I feel sitting in Fat Willy's, as one example - and wished Smoque had a softer feel to it.

Bill wrote:As we sat and talked during our meal I was struck with the feeling of how "cold" the interior of Smoque feels - institutional, cafeteria-like and not very comfortable.

See, that's why I prefer Honey One to Smoque...

just being silly. I finally hit Smoque for the first time a few weeks ago. I was a little underwhelmed, but I may just not be a brisket fanatic. There was nothing I'd say was wrong with the preparation; I just didn't get excited about it like I do about tips, links, ribs, etc.

If you don't like your barbecue in institutional dining rooms, why not go down to Uncle John's and enjoy your meal al fresco on the hood of your car.

I finally hit Smoque for the first time a few weeks ago. I was a little underwhelmed, but I may just not be a brisket fanatic. There was nothing I'd say was wrong with the preparation; . . .

I won't profess to being someone who delves deeply into preparation styles of food, but I've learned to trust my "gut" when it comes to things I like or don't. Smoked and/or BBQ foods have never been the types that interested me very much.

If you don't like your barbecue in institutional dining rooms, why not go down to Uncle John's and enjoy your meal al fresco on the hood of your car.

I might do that one day, or go go back to Fat Willy's - or someplace else. But given my lack of interest in such things and my fewer than average (amongst this group here on LTH) opportunities to eat out - I think I'll just move-on and focus my attention elsewhere. Smoque is a nice alternative to have, if I ever find myself in the mood for smoked or BBQ food.

Today was the second time in eight days that Grandma Bobbi and I had emigrated from the northern suburbs to Chicago. We expected to have a late lunch at Kuma's, eat at around 2:30 and avoid the crowds. We planned to sit on the patio since the vocal noise inside can get rather loud. Unfortunately, the weather was so beastly hot and humid (finally) that we decided to go to Smoque.

We arrived at around 2:30 or so and found a parking space in their lot. Having never been there before, we were a bit confused about ordering. Fortunately, the host/guide explain how things worked and recommended ordering the brisket. I had the sandwich with a side. The meat was excellent but sliced a bit thicker than I'm normal used to having brisket. (My wife's Passover brisket is sliced thinner for us at Sunset Foods as a service to the community.) I ordered a side of the mac 'n' cheese which was a cheesy delight. The cole slaw as sort of average to my tastes.

I was a bit surprised by the sauce until I realized it was a Carolina sauce that I had never had before. Quite sweet with a vinegar tartness. In talking to the owner later, he explained that their Carolina sauce came with the brisket and pulled pork and a thicker sauce came with the chicken and ribs. (I may not have this exactly correct.) He gave me a sample of the thicker sauce to take home. Tasted fine. I also commented on the number of takeouts we saw while we were there and he said that 40% of their business is carry out.

The communal seating arrangement was unusual and we met some nice people. I think that one of the reasons the seating may not be a problem is that when one sees people standing in line, one tends not to linger over their food. I feel the owners were quite clever in having the order line run right through the restaurant to reduce turnover time.

Would we go back? I doubt if I'd make a special trip from the burbs to Smoque. I felt it wasn't that unusual of a place. Grandma Bobbi and I were trying to remember the barbecue at Elliot's on west Garfield Blvd some 60+ years ago when we were kids. We loved sitting at the counter, eating doughnut holes and enjoying their barbecue. Anyone else remember Elliot's? Barbecue, like so many other foods (pizza, hot dogs and hamburgers, Asian dishes, etc.) is subjective and that's what keeps this forum going and growing.

Let's say the overall experience at Smoque was "interesting." For cheap eats (just a bit over $20 for the two of us with soft drinks), it's just fine. One shouldn't expect anything else.

Best regards,
Grandpa Bob