Silas Jayne wrote:

Jamieson22 wrote:WTf is a "high end home brewer"?

I only clone the best beers, Chimay's, Dogfisheads, Dead guys, and my home creations...To put it in laymans terms I can brew Miller Light for $6 in ingrediants, New Castle for $15, but I use so much grain and hops that my creations typically cost between 40 and a $120 to brew..Only the best.

But the "biggest" isn't always the best. I enjoy the big beers like Dark Lord, Dreadnaught, 120 IPA, Bells Expedition, etc., but, over time, I've actually come to appreciate session brews a lot more. In my opinion, it's more difficult to brew a balanced, clean mid-alcohol (~5%) session beer that doesn't obliterate your palette with hops and malt than imperial stouts, barley wines, double IPAs, etc. There's just much less room for error.

edit: I see JimTheBeerGuy, appropriately, made the same point more clearly in his second paragraph.

JasonM wrote:

I find my ales peak after about two weeks in my 32 degree fridge

Isn't that a little too cold?
Drinking quality beer at that temperature dulls the flavors.
Bud/Miller/etc, on the other hand, should be as cold as possible - for the same reason.

Agreed. I like to serve my ales, ideally, around 50° or so. There's a great essay about beer-serving temperatures in my friend Randy Mosher's new book, "Tasting Beer" (Storey Publishing), which should be required reading for anyone who has ever consumed a glass of beer.

I take about 20 minutes to drink one of my creations..after 10 minutes it's about 46.56 degreees.. And-32 degrees for 2 weeks kills all the yeast making for a very clean brew.

danimalarkey wrote: Lagunitas recently put out a 22oz. bomber of something called Hop Stoopid -- the hops here are mostly in the nose so the drink itself is much more balanced.

can't remember if I've had this, but it sounds exactly up my alley. I love a big, floral hoppy nose, but much as I love that nose in Dreadnaught and DF120, those beers end up seeming too syruppy for me. I often like to drink beer with food, and the giant IPA's usually overwhelm what's on the plate.

Its not that good...

I had an American-style IPA last week - by O'Dells of Fort Collins, CO - that has become my new favorite

I want to third this shout out to O'Dells. When my in-laws from Kansas visit, they are typically kind enough to bring a six pack or two of this fine brew with them. Lots of grapefruit in the nose, incredibly smooth. It is everything I want in an American IPA.

Silas Jayne wrote:Dogfishead 120 minute IPA...You never had anything this good before. It's $54 a six pack so you know it's 6 to 10 times better tham most beers

haha I just had one last night. Was thinking of it while opening this thread.

It's hardcore, man.

danimalarkey wrote:Lagunitas recently put out a 22oz. bomber of something called Hop Stoopid -- the hops here are mostly in the nose so the drink itself is much more balanced.

Just tried some of this today, at Prairie Moon in Evanston. I was impressed. Nice bright clear color, full, thick, long-lasting head (from the bottle), great hop aroma, and an interesting flavor that starts out with the flavor hops, goes to sweetness in the middle, then a long-lasting, mildly hoppy bitterness in the finish.

Silas Jayne - why do you say it's not that good?

I believe it's made with Lake Michigan water

A California brewery makes beer with Lake Michigan water?

Llama wrote:A California brewery makes beer with Lake Michigan water?

When "you're collective pallets become more sophisticated" like Mr. Jayne's you will be able to taste it.

Llama wrote:A California brewery makes beer with Lake Michigan water?

Thats my undestanding

[citation needed]

In all seriousness, I was unable to find any web evidence of such a feat. I happen to doubt that importing your water 2100 miles from the source - which happens to be Lake Michigan - would go completely unremarked-upon; it also doesn't seem to jive with this interview.

I don't know- Maybe they get the Lake Michigan water cheap or something..

Historically, certain types of beers were brewed in certain areas because the local water favored those styles. These days, the water chemistry is pretty well understood, and water from pretty much anywhere can be manipulated to be an exact copy of the water from Pilsen, or Burton-on-Trent, or wherever. The idea that a brewery in Petaluma, CA would import its water from Lake Michigan is laughable. I'll withdraw the comment if someone can provide hard evidence that Lagunitas actually does such an uneconomical thing. (Could confirm the "Stoopid" in the name of the beer, though.)

Every time I take the Three Floyds brewery tour, they point out that Lake Michigan's water is pretty darn perfect for making beer. I've never pressed for more details - not exactly the right venue to discuss the chemistry of minerality, salinity, etc. - but I trust Barnaby and his colleagues.

Yeah, this was my understanding, too. Of course, a brewery near Lake Michigan would have good reason to say that, but I've heard from other impartial sources that Lake Michigan water is good for brewing. I don't understand how using Lake Michigan water would count as a strike against a beer.

Thats probably why they ship it out to California by truck n train..I think the PH levels are perfect for beer and ale production

Silas Jayne wrote:Thats probably why they ship it out to California by truck n train..I think the PH levels are perfect for beer and ale production

Um, yeah.

Tony Magee, founder of Lagunitas Brewing Company wrote:I always think until a brewery gets to be a Sierra scaled operation you ought'a use the ingredients you find and make the best flavors you can. So, that means that our brewing water is a little soft in the spring when the supply is mainly from rain reservoirs and a little harder in the fall when it comes, in part, from wells. Good beer comes from all kinds of water and a little variation as related to the seasons is a cool kind of a thing, in my mind... for now.

Lagunitas Brewing Company (based in Petaluma, CA) uses local water sources for their beer. To ship it in "by truck n train" from anywhere outside of their region (Sonoma County, home to some excellent water sources), much less 2,100 miles from Lake Michigan, would not only be monumentally ridiculous, it would also cost a ton.

Half Acre's current seasonal Daisy Cutter continues to impress me. It reminds me a lot of FFF's Alpha King in that it's a hopped-up, well-balanced pale ale but it's overall a bit softer on the palette. It still has a healthy, strong floral aroma but finishes much tamer than Alpha King. Available at the usual beer bars around the city (and at Small Bar, for $4 on Sundays) and in 22oz. bombers.

As far as the Hopstoopid, the beer buyer at Whole Foods explained that the unusally hoppy nose comes from a hop extract used instead of the usual method of hop-ification.

Has anyone else tried FFF's Apocalypse Cow? Not nearly as hoppy as Dreadnaught of Alpha-naught, etc etc., but while on the subject of hops, it's hard to shy away from them. The lactose sugar adds a very different taste than what I expect from them, maltiness, I think. It still shows up on their draft listing for the brewpub and I've seen it in 22oz. bottles here and there. From their website:

Apocalypse Cow: This complex double India pale ale has an intense citrus and floral hop aroma balanced by a velvety malt body which has been augmented with lactose milk sugar. With this different take on an IPA we have brewed an ale that is both pleasing to drink and, once again, “not normal.” 100 IBU 9.5%ABV

danimalarkey wrote:As far as the Hopstoopid, the beer buyer at Whole Foods explained that the unusally hoppy nose comes from a hop extract used instead of the usual method of hop-ification.

The label has an interesting anecdote about a new brewer, discovering all sorts of hop extraction equipment, and poo-pooing it. Then, after trying it, becoming converted.

It's not the only way to create a hoppy nose, but it definitely works.

This Silas Jayne guy seems pretty knowledgeable/cool.

You're right-I grow my own hops..I have about 6 varities on my ranch..

Heres grade A cystal and some of my favorite, Hallertauer. Me and one of my boys are making some Fresh Hop brew within the next few days..For the up coming Bear season..It's gonna be a super Ipa- we will continually hop for 130 minutes...10 minutes more than the 120-I'll take pic's

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee13 ... ROX082.jpg
http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee13 ... ROX073.jpg

I Do It Daily wrote:This Silas Jayne guy seems pretty knowledgeable/cool.

hah yeah, this guy is pretty cool

Silas i will try this DOGFISH 120 IPA and drink it even if i don't like it

I'm a big fan of DIPAs and I wouldn't rank DFH 120 in my top 5. When I lived on the east coast I was a DFH 90 devotee, but now that I have better access to midwest and west coast beers, I rarely drink it anymore. My personal faves are Pliny the Elder from Russian River (never tried Pliny the Younger) and 16 Grit from Surly. Both are plenty hoppy and not nearly as sweet as the Dogfish IPAs.

where can i buy Pliny the Elder? Binny's?

In my opinion the list of great beers should begin and end with Goose Island 312 Urban Wheat Ale. It is truly divine. Winter, Summer, Spring or Fall my fridge is stocked with this superior libation of the gods.

turkob wrote:I'm a big fan of DIPAs and I wouldn't rank DFH 120 in my top 5. When I lived on the east coast I was a DFH 90 devotee, but now that I have better access to midwest and west coast beers, I rarely drink it anymore. My personal faves are Pliny the Elder from Russian River (never tried Pliny the Younger) and 16 Grit from Surly. Both are plenty hoppy and not nearly as sweet as the Dogfish IPAs.

Pliny the Elder is really good and I have heard great things about the Russian River brewery. The DFH 120 is good for smuggling into sporting events or theaters. I had two in the parking lot before the Rockies/Cub game the other night and that was almost enough..I ordered a 16 oz FatTire draft from my club level seats and I nursed that for an hour. Thats all I needed, anymore and I would'nt be legal to drive home after the game.

The cubs lost, BUT I brought some emotional insurance by betting a lot of money on the Rockies..
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee13 ... s3/365.jpg