Darren, for safety, please boil the brine.

Darren72 wrote:I have a quick question that I hope some of the canning experts can help me with (Cathy!). I made some half-sour pickles this week. The pickles fill 6 wide mouth, pint-size mason jars. I originally thought I'd keep the pickles in the fridge. Now I've decided that I should have processed these pickles so I can store them out of the fridge.

I'm wondering if it is too late to process these. Can I just put the jars (now filled with pickles and cool liquid) into a boiling water bath for, say, 10 minutes? Or should I remove the brine, boil it, return it to the jars, and then process it? Or am I past the point of no return?

Thanks in advance.

1. Bring the jars to room temperature.

2. If your jars were freshly washed when you filled them, I would tip the liquid into a pot. I put the lid back on just to keep any spores from getting in while you heat the brine.

3. To can them, pour the brine into a pan, heat slowly to a boil, and simmer 5 minutes. Filter brine through paper coffee filters to reduce cloudiness, if desired. Fill jar with pickles and hot brine, leaving 1/2-inch headspace. (unless you kept excess brining liquid, you may need to add some salt-water for any deficits you may have. By the way, I keep excess brining liquid for making Polish pickle soup.)

4. While you are working on preparing the brine, begin heating your waterbath to around 140 degrees.

5. Here you have two choices:
a. Water bath process for 10 minutes for pints and 15 minutes for quarts.
b. My preferred method is pasteurizing. Bring the pickles to a temperature range of 180-184 degrees for 30 minutes. If it dips below, begin timing once more after it reachs 180.

National Center for Food Preservation is my go-to place for solid, research-based information. They have lots of information related to canning. If I am using other canning books, even Ball's, I refer to NCFP for processing times and often for adjusting the recipes. The ratio of sugar, vinegar and vegetables are not to be overlooked.

PKramer wrote:Darren, for safety, please boil the brine.

Just to be more clear, the brine was boiled before packed into the jars. Now I'm wondering whether it needs to be reboiled before processing.

Cathy, thanks for the response. I'm glad to know that it's too late to process these. I too like the low temp method for pickles. (By the way, my brine is just spices and salt water, no vinegar.)

nancy wrote:Wow--what a thread! I have two little kiddies so don't get to reading until late night (when I am not canning!)--and loved reading what you are doing. I am a huge jam and pickle maker. I also am a pie lover. Cathy--am curious what are you doing with all of that fruit for pies--are you making filling to freeze? I don't use any pectin for my jam and have had problems with my sour cherry preserves coming out quite the right texture--has anyone had any non-pectin sucess with this? Also, this year and last I have gotten wonderful tasting apricots which I have had to end up putting through the food mill (to make a jam which is tasty but too smooth for my taste) and this is because it has such a brittle veiny structure to the fruit, that when cooked it resembles "baby fingernails" floating through the jam. Not good. I talked to Mick Klug about this and he can't figure it out--is this Illinois or is this the variety? I have never had this problem until 2008.
Happy Canning--hope to have a chance to talk more about this stuff at the picnic! NZ

Sorry to be so tardy responding.

Just last weekend, I bought over 20 pounds of "icky" peaches. From this group, I made a peach cake, seven quarts of pie filling for freezing and a batch of peach jam.

I avoid using pectin because it gives a stiff, rubbery texture to jam. I like a little flow. I used a potato masher to mash the peaches, which were five cups liquid volume. I added around six cups sugar. I boiled it for around 30 minutes. Note: I use deep stock pots to avoid issues of hot, molten jam going over the top. This is where I took a phone call and slightly scorched the jam. I stopped cooking. Let it set up in the pot. I did this to remove the jam and leave whatever was scorched at the bottom. Otherwise you stir in scorched into otherwise good jam. The next day, I canned the jam. Because I didn't use pectin, which breaks down after prolong heat exposure, I processed the jam for ten minutes without pre-sterilizing the jars. Anything less than ten minutes, the jars need some presterilization.

Regards,

Darren72 wrote:

PKramer wrote:Darren, for safety, please boil the brine.

Just to be more clear, the brine was boiled before packed into the jars. Now I'm wondering whether it needs to be reboiled before processing.

I would.

All the processing methods and timings expect room temperature dill pickle with hot brine poured over it. It will also prevent thermal shock going into the 140 degree hot water bath.

Regards,

hello pickling and canning aficionados -

embarking on my first attempt at pickling beets. it's my great-grandmother's recipe, and i have a quality control related question. When my grandmother makes pickled beets, they have a beautiful, deep magenta color in the jar. When my mother makes them, using the same recipe, they have more of a dusky color. They taste fine, but are missing some of the pizzazz that my grandma's have.

Do you think this is a procedural problem, or perhaps grandma is holding out on a secret ingredient? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!!

Hi,

Not knowing all the details, is it possible your Mother was using an aluminum pot? It can sometimes interact with acid to darken food.

Further, I have beets that are not as bright as the day I canned them. Home canned products typically don't have any additives to help maintain color. While they may visibly change, their nutritional value is not as compromised.

Avoid a canning error I once made with beets: I once cooked the beets until almost tender, but not as tender as I might like. I reasoned the beets would finish cooking during the pickling process. It didn't or at least not as tender as I expected for the final result.

Unless you want to share the recipe, we are shooting the dark.

Regards,

Here is the recipe they use (and i will use):

cook small beets until tender. Slip skins off. Make a pickling syrup of 2 cups sugar, 2 cups water, 2 cups vinegar, 1 tablespoon cinnamon, 1 teaspoon cloves, 1 teaspoon allspice. cover beets with syrup, simmer 15 minutes. Seal.

Using ground rather than whole spices may account for the color change.

Jyoti

I don't know from canned beets or beet-canning recipes, but something to consider: home cooks of a few generations ago were much more likely to use food coloring in places you wouldn't expect. Just sayin' - it may not be you or your Mom.

Mhays wrote:I don't know from canned beets or beet-canning recipes, but something to consider: home cooks of a few generations ago were much more likely to use food coloring in places you wouldn't expect. Just sayin' - it may not be you or your Mom.

My grandmother made awesome pickled beets and no food coloring, no way. They're beets! How are they not a glorious color? They only thing I can think of, jannamae08, is that you're inadvertently using golden or chioggia beets in the mix -- sometimes their skins don't make it apparent that the beet itself is actually a lighter color. Otherwise, I'll go with Cathy's suggestion that their might be some type of metallic interaction via the pot.

Speaking of food coloring - my mom used to buy these jars of bright (as in mareschino cherry) red and bright green pickled beets that frankly scared the heck out of me. It was years later before I learned that beets weren't naturally either of those colors, and more years after that before I scraped together the courage to eat one.

Hi,

I have a Facebook 'friend' who likens canning to yoga. I consider it long distance running with a wall I cannot always break through.

A few weeks ago, I compared schedules with my canning buddy Ellen. Between hers and mine, there was an open day on Labor Day. I wasn't really enthusiastic, because Saturday and Sunday dedicated to Mushroom Club potentially could drain my energy. Ellen sweetened the deal by offering to drive up to the farms to buy vegetables. It wasn't easy to say no, when she was willing to do so much in advance. I reluctantly agreed to Labor Day canning session.

Last night at 9:30, I called to reconfirm while hoping she pooped out on the vegetable purchasing. Unfortunately she not only remembered, she spent hours chopping vegetables for marinara sauce. I could have easily gone for a day in my pajamas doing not too much.

Ellen arrived around 10 AM loaded down with chopped vegetables. I went out to her car to find almost 80-100 pounds of tomatoes. I'd be seeing red, if she hadn't bought so many organic heirloom tomatoes. Instead, I saw ripe green, yellow, crimson reds and some purple tomatoes, too.

For the first round, I processed all organic tomatoes. Initially, I carefully dumped all the tomatoes into the sink for a quick bath. I started my crockpot/fryer on high to boil water. From left to right, I had a large tray of tomatoes, which went into the hot water in groups of three or four. I refilled my sink with cold water to shock them. I then peeled, cut in half to easily squeeze the seeds into a sieve over a gallon pitcher. The tomato pulp went into a 3+ gallon glass jar. From the seeds and liquid surrounding it, I collected about a half gallon of tomato juice.

Ellen began cooking her carrots, onions, celery and peppers for marinara sauce. Eventually my tomatoes were added to the vegetables to slow cook. I had three stock pots of varying sizes on the stove quietly bubbling away.

My wall didn't get pierced until we finally had lunch of egg salad, potato salad, porcupine meatballs and rice. Until lunch, probably low blood sugar, I was dragging myself to do everything I needed

The organic tomatoes were fully ripened. The plum tomatoes and regular round tomatoes purchased, we found needed more ripening. Unfortunately, I had already peeled and deseeded a 25-pound box already. I considered making Marcia Adams tomato soup concentrate. I knew where I put the recipe, I simply did not know where my notebook was.

I then consulted Cook's Illustrated who suggested roasting winter tomatoes to enhance their flavor. We roasted the deseeded and mostly de-skinned tomatoes at 475 degrees for an hour. We skipped the suggested garlic, tomato paste and herbs suggested by Cook's. After an hour, we found with the liquid leached out and the sugars concentrated with a bit of carmelization. These formally insipid tomatoes were vastly improved.

It took three rounds in the canner to process: 17 quarts marinara sauce and 2 quarts plus one pint of roasted tomatoes.

The remaining 40-50 pounds of plum and round tomatoes will sit for a few days to ripen further. We are considering roasting them, too.

Eleven hours after we began, I pulled the last jars of marinara sauce from the pressure canner.

I'm cooked.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:I'm cooked.

Less harrowing canning day for me, fortunately. I canned about 17 lbs. of tomatoes, which I did in a crushed/quartered-in-their-own-juice format. (I find that tomatoes in that form are the most versatile, to be used later in a variety of applications.) I found the repetitive work to be very relaxing. I did, however, organize a bit, creating stations, one for the tomatoes, another for the cold water bath, another for the peeling & coring, etc. I started at 7:00ish and finished about 2 hours later. To show that canning is not, in fact, like pulling teeth, here is a rough sketch of what I did:


Ripened Tomatoes for Canning

(1) (2)
Tomato peelings (1); Peeled tomatoes prior to quartering (2)


After processing, finished tomatoes

Next up: Canning about 22 lbs. of roma tomatoes, which need a few days of ripening:

In process of processing my last jars of this week's batch of tomato-basil sauce. I'd intended to photograph the process, but just getting through 30 lbs of tomatoes is a chore.

I process in this way: after washing the tomatoes, I cut four "petals" off the outside (something I learned from Jacques Pepin,) including the skin - hopefully missing the seeds, but de-seeding into the stockpot if not. I coarsely chop the remaining tomato, seeds and all, and toss it into a stockpot. After I've collected enough petals, they go under the broiler until the skins blister off (I like the flavor the broiler adds, rather than doing it in a waterbath.) Then, after the remaining tomatoes have lost their structure to the heat, I run them through a sieve to get rid of the seeds. The resultant liquid gets reduced, then the skinned tomato petals are added so I have a chunky sauce.

Often, I'm very tired at this point, so I quick-chill the tomato puree and refrigerate until I can get back to it - then I make the recipe (minus the lemon) and pressure-can for 20 minutes (per the USDA instructions) I've been buying 25-30 lb boxes of very tasty (if plain) "field tomatoes" for $20 at the Evanston Farmer's Market, and they do the job well. The good news is that I can successfully can all the ripe ones in a weekend, and then the few remaining as they ripen during the week...I'm up to eighteen pints, four at a time (welll, eight today.)

Mhays wrote:I make the recipe (minus the lemon) and pressure-can for 20 minutes (per the USDA instructions)

You are adding lemon juice at some point, right?

Maybe I'm just too tired, I don't quite understand the petal system. Let's talk about it at the picnic. Maybe we can have a canning corner?

I expect to finish up Wednesday night the tomatoes. They will be simply processed without the long cook time for marinara. As much as I am tired now, I have my own fastfood later in the year and pretty much on demand.

Regards,

Since I am pressure-canning, I'm following the instructions from the USDA site, which don't include an acidifier in their non-meat tomato sauce. It is essentially the same recipe as the first one, minus non-acid vegetables like green pepper, celery, sugar and mushrooms (part of the reason I got a pressure canner in the first place, we started to notice the acid flavor last year.) Do I need lemon juice if I'm pressure-canning tomatoes?

MHays, you are correct. There is no need for lemon juice if you are PRESURRE canning. The internal temp of the product will be high enough that the acid is not required.

If you are using the boiling water bath method (BWB) you will need to add the lemon jiuce to your tomato sauce.

aschie30, those photos of yours are so beautiful they make me want to try canning tomatoes myself, even though I lack the essentials, i.e., experience, equipment, and the courage to risk poisoning myself and others.

This thread is really building me up to try my hand at canning foods someday soon.

By the way, does anyone posting here who'll be at the LTH Forum picnic have a copy of the book Putting Food By? My library doesn't have it. I'd like to borrow it from someone for a little while if possible.

One more question, any thoughts on the economics of canning - let's say, home-canning tomatoes (not counting time, but counting equipment costs) versus buying canned (jarred) tomatoes?

Hi,

Tomatoes being often on the edge of not-very-acidic, I prefer to add lemon juice for peace of mind.

If you look at the USDA recommendation for tomatoes packed in their own juices. They add lemon juice to the tomatoes, then provide waterbath and pressure processing times. They never suggest forgoing the lemon juice because it is pressure canned.

Your Tomato-Basil sauce from Ball also has you add lemon juice, which is being reasonable decision from my perspective, too.

Regards,

Why do you need to acidify tomatoes but not meat?

Katie wrote:aschie30, those photos of yours are so beautiful they make me want to try canning tomatoes myself, even though I lack the essentials, i.e., experience, equipment, and the courage to risk poisoning myself and others.

This thread is really building me up to try my hand at canning foods someday soon.

By the way, does anyone posting here who'll be at the LTH Forum picnic have a copy of the book Putting Food By? My library doesn't have it. I'd like to borrow it from someone for a little while if possible.

One more question, any thoughts on the economics of canning - let's say, home-canning tomatoes (not counting time, but counting equipment costs) versus buying canned (jarred) tomatoes?

I am talking to Jarden Corp, aka Ball Canning, about conducting a canning class next year.

Katie - I would go over to the free National Center for Home Preservation website. There is a lot of information.

If you are going to get one book, I would get: So Easy to Preserve, a 375-page book with over 185 tested recipes, along with step by step instructions and in-depth information for both the new and experienced food preserver. Chapters include Preserving Food, Canning, Pickled Products, Jellied Fruit Products, Freezing and Drying. It is a publication of the University of Georgia with link to on the National Center for Home Preservation website.

I believe I have a copy of Putting Food By ... I always go back to USDA for processing methods.

Regards,

teatpuller wrote:Why do you need to acidify tomatoes but not meat?

You are mixing two issues here.

The choice to pressure can is related to the pH of the product:

1. All meat is pressured canned. Period.

2. Most pickled vegetables, because of the acid environment, are waterbath processed.

3. All vegetables in water or their natural juices are pressure canned.

4. Most fruits, because of their natural acidity, are waterbath processed.

5. Tomatoes ride the rail between between being acidic and not quite acidic. The added lemon juice in waterbath is absolutely necessary. It has been preferred to add acid to tomatoes for pressure canned. I prefer to err on adding acid, than not.

Regards,

I mean, he said he was pressure canning. My point being they don't suggest lemon in everything that is pressure canned. Maybe there is a reason, I dunno.

teatpuller wrote:I mean, he said he was pressure canning. My point being they don't suggest lemon in everything that is pressure canned. Maybe there is a reason, I dunno.

Tomatoes are an odd duck. Until just recently, those USDA reg's Michelle - MHays was referring to did have lemon juice added whether it was pressure or water bath canned. This is an issue that has been going back and forth about tomatoes.

Two tablespoons of lemon juice in a quart of tomatoes isn't going to negatively alter the flavor and it buys peace of mind. Processing is 25 minutes. Mix 75% tomatoes with 25% zuchinni, you now have a processing time of 35 minutes. Processing time of green beans in water is 25 minutes.

Regards,

It seems I'm always assuming the wrong gender on this site....from now on everyone is an "it."

That's OK, teatpuller - no matter how much I talk about breastfeeding, the Gender Guesser always predicts I'm male, so you're not alone.

At any rate, last year I did notice a flavor difference - but if you'll note, while the linked Ball recipe (for waterbath canning) contains lemon juice, the linked USDA vegetarian tomato sauce recipe (for pressure canning) which is very similar, does not. Obviously, I'm no expert, I'm just reporting what the site said to do (from what I could see, Ball has no directions at all for pressure canning tomatoes.) I did find it interesting that the recipe for pressure-canned peppers included lemon juice, though (which I added.)

I will post this as a question on the IL Extension office site and see if they can give me a more up-to-date response than USDA.

HI,

When U of I Extension replies, give me the link. It will be interesting if they vary from USDA, which is not likely.

From my discussions years ago, I learned the pressure canning method was devised with the expectation of lemon juice added to the tomatoes.

Regards,

jannamae008 said

embarking on my first attempt at pickling beets. it's my great-grandmother's recipe, and i have a quality control related question. When my grandmother makes pickled beets, they have a beautiful, deep magenta color in the jar. When my mother makes them, using the same recipe, they have more of a dusky color. They taste fine, but are missing some of the pizzazz that my grandma's have.

Even red beet cultivars vary in depth of red color. Last year I grew both Detroit Dark Red, an old variety, and Chicago Red, a fairly new hybrid. The Chicago Red beets had consistently darker color in both roots and foliage. I did not have to look at row markers to tell where one variety ended and the other began in the same row. When roasted in mixed batches, it was easy to tell which variety one cut into. Golden beets have such different leaves, stems and root appearance from red beets that I do not see how anyone who is not red-green colorblind could confuse them.

Many tomato cultivars now have lower acidity than mainstream cultivars had 40 or 50 years ago. The changed recommendations for added acid or pressure versus water bath canning reflect more changed tomatoes than increased cautiousness.

ekreider wrote:Many tomato cultivars now have lower acidity than mainstream cultivars had 40 or 50 years ago. The changed recommendations for added acid or pressure versus water bath canning reflect more changed tomatoes than increased cautiousness.

In the early 90's, I spoke to a researcher at the University of Illinois. They had a project growing tomato plants in demonstration plots throughout the state. They planted heirloom, hybrids, classics and those cultivate for low acidity. They learned there was no reliability in tomato acidity in all these conditions. Some "low acid" tomatoes had higher acid than "regular" tomatoes. Heirlooms were not especially acidic than those varieties developed since. Overall tomato acid levels were all over the place no matter where they grew.

This affected canning recommendations because this research proved acid levels were simply not reliable in tomatoes. Adding lemon juice was enough to tip the pH levels in the right direction reliably.

Regards,