Just a note in the discussion. Numerous inferences have been made, implying that the restaurant's missteps represent Chef Gras' dislike (or disrespect) of Steve (not sure if these inferences are meant to extend to his dislike for GAF or to me and if not, why he would affect our experiences too). The inference is that he intentionally thwarted our experience or meal in a decided expression of his displeasure with us.

I think it is wrong to conclude that the Chef acted out so as to aggress against Steve (and again, by extension, GAF and me). If that is the case (and I don't think it is...I think the missteps were just fundamental problems in the restaurant as reflected in my review), then it doesn't speak to much professionalism on his part. After all, Chef Gras is an employee of the restaurant and has investors and bosses to whom to answer. L2o is not his private enterprise or playground.

It would disrespect the owning corporation, investors, and those above him to treat someone in this fashion simply because of his ire.

Oh, I'm not assuming he has any opinion at all about Steve. I'm assuming he doesn't read Steve's blog or book, and doesn't know him from, say, me.

gleam wrote:

Steve Plotnicki wrote:

jimswside wrote:With the above said I would never use my blog, or attempt to use my blog to garner special favors, etc. I prefer to be as anonomous as possible, and fly below the radar.

I am curious about this. Suppose a famous chef was a fan of your blog, and he would be happy to cook you a special meal if he knew you were in the restaurant that would be the best meal of you life. Why wouldn't you, or anyone else want that?

Is Laurent Gras a fan of your blog?

To me, this implied that the Chef was not a fan of the blog, which explains what happened. Sorry if I jumped to a premature and erroneous conclusion.

(To correct your assumption, they do know of Steve, his blog, and his publication)

Really, I'm just trying to start something again, so we can get this thread to 17.5 pages by the end of today and Kenny loses his bet.

Naughty!

jbw wrote:

I'm not sure why this discussion is still underway*, in light of the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect_(physics)

I don't think anyone's accused anyone else of being a Nazi just yet, so I think we've still got some distance to go.

Ah, but that's Goodwin's law:

"As a threaded discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving the Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

Unfortunately, since I've just quoted an academic theory, I clearly have no real knowledge of food, and you can therefore ignore this post.

Laurent Gras is one of the most fastidious and calculated chefs I have ever interviewed. To suggest that Gras doesn't know what's going on his restaurant and that he doesn't know how to address special requests and how to accomodate the highest level of diner, especially having apprenticed alongside Alain Ducasse for longer than most is absurd.

If anything he either wasn't there that night, or as has already been suggested, he knew exactly what he was doing and didn't have any interest in playing in to Plotnicki's gambit. Why would he? Plotnicki has very little effect on a restaurant (I say this in the same breath in the understanding that even as a "professional" journalist, blogger, etc or whatever you want to call it" who writes for a wide variety of well read and very unread publications, I too have very little impact - there are only a few who do - Bruni say or Jonathan Gold - I guarantee Ulterior Epicure is not filling Per Se every night). And what effect Plotnicki does have is bad for business. Plotnicki's following is a bunch of dilettante bloodsucking diners who expected to be pampered in very customized ways. These people are the kind of folks who nickel and dime you and tax your kitchen and offer no value whatsoever.

Restaurants at even the very high level are not Tiffany or Louis Vuitton, i.e. charging $400 for a purse that costs $20 to manufacture and using the other $380 to provide rediculous butt-kissing to the small percentage of clients who require it while pocketing the rest. Even the big guys have razor thin food margins, and spend the majority of their money on providing incredibly high quality service and ambience to all. They give each diner a $350 purse in some ways. It's in their best interest to avoid the folks who wou would pay $350 and then demand a $1000 purse.

MNJ

Almost like my experience at the restaurant, I started reading your post with enthusiasm as you are obviously an informed and very knowledgeable diner. But my heart began to sink with the name calling and, if I may frankly say, tone of nastiness that initially seemed to greet my post. Is it really necessary to attempt to bolster your points by calling people names and talking like that? I had hoped, and still do, that we could move beyond that type of discourse and am trying to do my part to help that along.

Of course, Laurent Gras is a highly trained chef--wasn't he with Robuchon before Ducasse? I once took a cooking class in NY led by Chef Gras, and we were told he had trained and worked for Chef Robuchon. Gras is certainly one to respect and no doubt is the consummate professional.

Call it naivete, stubbornness, or whatever you like, but I simply refuse to believe someone of Gras' stature--especially in these economic times--would choose to sabotage a table's dinner (not just Plotnicki but his dining companions' meals too)--because of any real or imagined dislike you propose he has for Steve.

Now I'm confused. Did the chef sabotage the dinner or was it your captain?

Honestly, and I think this has been said many a time at this point, this whole thing sounds like a communications breakdown plain and simple. We can go on and on about the rest of the stuff but I don't think we'll get anywhere.

From what I can piece together, the Captain was under the impression she could not speak to the chef, so she and the GM, on their own, decided to put together their version of a menu.

I don't know what the Chef knew or didn't know, but I don't believe they communicated our request to him. My impression (and its just an impression) is that the primary problem in terms of the format for the meal was front of the house.

MJN wrote:Plotnicki's following is a bunch of dilettante bloodsucking diners who expected to be pampered in very customized ways. These people are the kind of folks who nickel and dime you and tax your kitchen and offer no value whatsoever.

I am always flabbergasted at these types of comments because it demonstrates how little people know about how the business world works. Restaurants live for special customers because they spend more money at the restaurant than the Michal Nagrant's of the world do. Take Craft where I am a regular. What type of customer do you think they prefer; someone who orders an appetizer, entree and dessert and spends $75 or someone they serve the type of tasting menu I allow them to serve me (I just tell them to cook for me) which usually runs between $150-$200 a person? D'Uh. So had Laurent Gras been any type of host, he could have probably come to our table and said, "I just got these blue lobsters in from Normandy and I would like to prepare them for you in three diferent ways but it will cost $350 a person," the three of us would have looked at each other and wholeheartedly said yes. That he doesn't have the savvy or skill to do that is his loss because we would have probaly spent as much money had he given us the chance to as 3 other tables put together. But the Michael Nagrant's of the world want to characterize that as "nickel and diming" the restaurant. It's rather odd but maybe Michael is jealous of my good looks. At least he acknowedged that I have a following. That's probably more than he has.

I don't know what the Chef knew or didn't know, but I don't believe they communicated our request to him. My impression (and its just an impression) is that the primary problem in terms of the format for the meal was front of the house.

This is correct. Laurent wasn't the problem in the first instance, it was the front of the house. Laurent is being criticized for not playing a more important role in making sure his guests are getting a meal of their choosing.

One of the specialties of the house is game. On the day you are scheduled to go, their normal game supplier walks in with three very special wood pigeons. The problem is, there are 12 reservations that night and not everyone can be offered wood pigeon. How should the restaurant determine who they offer it to?

"Very special wood pigeon" is an oxymoron. Presumably killed in the wild; since they were a gift to the chef, the first offering is to the game supplier herself.

I am always flabbergasted at these types of comments because it demonstrates how little people know about how the business world works. Restaurants live for special customers because they spend more money at the restaurant than the Michal Nagrant's of the world do. Take Craft where I am a regular. What type of customer do you think they prefer; someone who orders an appetizer, entree and dessert and spends $75 or someone they serve the type of tasting menu I allow them to serve me (I just tell them to cook for me) which usually runs between $150-$200 a person? D'Uh. So had Laurent Gras been any type of host, he could have probably come to our table and said, "I just got these blue lobsters in from Normandy and I would like to prepare them for you in three diferent ways but it will cost $350 a person," the three of us would have looked at each other and wholeheartedly said yes. That he doesn't have the savvy or skill to do that is his loss because we would have probaly spent as much money had he given us the chance to as 3 other tables put together. But the Michael Nagrant's of the world want to characterize that as "nickel and diming" the restaurant. It's rather odd but maybe Michael is jealous of my good looks. At least he acknowedged that I have a following. That's probably more than he has.

You are a special customer at these restaurants because you come in quite often and you spend huge amounts. No one is saying that isn't a way to become a VIP at any restaurant. It even works at pizza places. Steven Shaw even wrote a book about it (quite a boring book IMO). Every restaurant in this day of age treats anyone that spends huge and frequently as a VIP, that's the business. The objection everyone has is that you tried to become "special" by throwing around names. When it didn't work you took to the airwaves and told about your "poor" experience and tried to convince your masses that L2O was overrated, blah blah blah.

Mr. Plotnicki you are everything that is wrong with the internet. What's worse is that you've kept this douchery going for days, antagonizing certain board people, just to keep this thread going. Just to keep your name out there. Mainly so when you go to other restaurants (let's face it, I'm sure this thread is being read by every top toque in Chicago, GEB and Philip Foss have already weighed in) your name means something.

I guess the worst thing is that we've played this game with Plotnicki for days now. We've given him what he wants, more exposure for his site. I just hope this doesn't turn into a Central Coast/East Coast all out war. I'd hate to see a drive-by outside of Patty's one Tuesday afternoon. Mainly because I would be too full and belly-content to dive out of the way.

P.S. Full disclosure - I once caught Ronnie taking pictures during lunch with his family. I offered him a free dessert. It wasn't a special dessert it was a scoop of ice-cream. He declined but his son accepted, restaurants of Chicago look-out, there's a teenage Plotnicki on the loose.

pizano345 wrote: The objection everyone has is that you tried to become "special" by throwing around names. When it didn't work you took to the airwaves and told about your "poor" experience and tried to convince your masses that L2O was overrated, blah blah blah.

First of all we didn't ask for special treatment. We asked for their best possible meal and the restaurant didn't comply with our request. Once again that's my sole complaint. And I didn't take to the airwaves and complain the restaurant is overrated. In fact if you read further back in the thread I said the food was better than I thought. In fact iof the three people at the dinner, I would probably rate the restaurant the highest. But when I do write my review, my complaint will be that the restaurant, because of the way they are structured corporately where the front of the house isn't allowed to talk to the chef, combined with the chef not coming into the dining room to speak with his customers, missed an opportunity because I am not in a position to give the restaurant the type of representative review I usually give to a restaurant. Since I don't come to Chicago that often, that's a shame for me and for them. And I will add that a restaurant with a more experienced front of the house team wouldn't have made that mistake. As to your point about "throwing around names", well how else would you convey to the restaurant who you are and what you want? I don't believe in anonymity - in fact I have written extensively about how anonymity prevents the public from having the best possible information about a restaurant. So your point doesn't make any sense.

I guess the worst thing is that we've played this game with Plotnicki for days now.

I haven’t played any game. I simply came onto this thread to explain the situation from my vantage point in the context of GAF and Dutchmuse’s posts. And rather than people simply saying, okay I understand where the guy is coming from, which meant they could disagree with me and move on, a number of people here were intent on proving me wrong. Look at your last post which added absolutely nothing to the conversation but a whole new host of insults, after which you blame me for keeping the thread going. My sole substantive contribution to this thread was to tell people how to get a better meal, which everyone argued with me about even though they have no basis to, and to point out that the front of the house at L2O doesn’t stack up to world class restaurants. You have characterized those criticisms as having the potential of turning into an East Coast/West Coast war.

pizano345 wrote:P.S. Full disclosure - I once caught Ronnie taking pictures during lunch with his family. I offered him a free dessert. It wasn't a special dessert it was a scoop of ice-cream. He declined but his son accepted, restaurants of Chicago look-out, there's a teenage Plotnicki on the loose.

Yep, that's our scam and the boy has learned how to run it perfectly!

=R=

Steve Plotnicki wrote:"I just got these blue lobsters in from Normandy and I would like to prepare them for you in three diferent ways but it will cost $350 a person,"

Will there also be corn?

Steve Plotnicki wrote:
I haven’t played any game.

That's what you think.

Game ------> X


X <---------You

Just 3 more posts and we will be at page 16. Make that 2 more posts.

I went to L2O and asked the chef to cook for me. He stuck a fork in my eye!

Paging SteveZ...a beating-a-dead-horse image is needed on page 15. Paging SteveZ to page 15 for a beating-a-dead-horse image.

Soooo......

Will be coming back to Chicago yet again next weekend - already done Trotter's, Moto, Spiaggia, Alinea - L2O is next on the list. Not to get in the way of all this arguing or anything BUT....

Anyone tried the Summer Tasting Menu? How is it??

uhockey wrote:Soooo......

Will be coming back to Chicago yet again next weekend - already done Trotter's, Moto, Spiaggia, Alinea - L2O is next on the list. Not to get in the way of all this arguing or anything BUT....

Anyone tried the Summer Tasting Menu? How is it??

I plan on giving it a shot tomorrow evening, and will hopefully have a review posted on Sunday. I'm looking forward to it

Khaopaat wrote:

uhockey wrote:Soooo......

Will be coming back to Chicago yet again next weekend - already done Trotter's, Moto, Spiaggia, Alinea - L2O is next on the list. Not to get in the way of all this arguing or anything BUT....

Anyone tried the Summer Tasting Menu? How is it??

I plan on giving it a shot tomorrow evening, and will hopefully have a review posted on Sunday. I'm looking forward to it

Stellar - I shall look forward to reading.

Me too.

Me three; I hope you have a terrific experience and dinner.

We have an attendee for the LTH dinner at L2o (that's how they 'officially' write it btw which I found interesting) and it will be the latter part of September; will announce the date for anyone else who wants to attend by early next week.

A dish that I enjoyed very much was the halibut and chorizo.

I keep remembering the girolles on a beautiful dish that, I think, Gary had. I didn't taste it so can't comment but the appearance of the mushrooms was sublime looking.

In general, do the dishes on the tasting represent those on the menu (for instance, is the "Tuna" on the tasting the same as the "Tuna, Tomato, Hibiscus, Foie Gras Snow" on the Fixe?)

Also - I dig their new website.

it would be nice if the posts that have nothing to do with L.20(a couple of mine included), could some how be weeded out of this thread. It does a disservice to L.20.(even though I will never eat @ L.20, I appreciate the art they are creating, and think a couple folks are intent on getting their agenda across seem intent on keeping this going).

jimswside wrote:it would be nice if the posts that have nothing to do with L.20(a couple of mine included), could some how be weeded out of this thread. It does a disservice to L.20.(even though I will never eat @ L.20, I appreciate the art they are creating, and think a couple folks are intent on getting their agenda across seem intent on keeping this going).

The most that may happen is the thread might be split in two. Diverging from the original topic is a mainstay around here. It also may just remain as-is.

Regards,