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How do chefs get a menu item to sell?

How do chefs get a menu item to sell?
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  • How do chefs get a menu item to sell?

    Post #1 - September 9th, 2009, 9:01 am
    Post #1 - September 9th, 2009, 9:01 am Post #1 - September 9th, 2009, 9:01 am
    I'm starting this thread in response to a comment/request on my most recent blog post. The reader wanted either suggestions or to get a better understanding behind the workings of professionals.
    I could ramble for a long time on the subject, but thought it best to open the topic up.

    This was the original comment:
    when sales of an item spikes, is this necessarily a good thing? wouldn’t it also mean that sales drop on the other items?
    or is an indication of (potentially) more sales, eg, charging more for that item, or an increase in gluttony or guests?
    have you done any focus groups on menu items or wording? seems like the blog might be a good outlet for such a thing…

    And my response:
    Good questions… Though it’s true that one item moving means another doesn’t, there is little more frustrating than putting in the physical and emotional labor into creating a new dish and then not selling little/none.
    Pricing can also be a big factor, but I find the biggest motivation is to get our servers excited about the item at pre-shift. This is done by giving them a tasting portion of it.
    Bribery can work too. Occasionally – if it’s an item that really needs promotion – we will offer the servers a competition where who ever serves the most will receive a mini reward.
    Some items I know will move on their own because the ingredients are widely loved and mainstream.
    There really are many reasons behind why an item will or won’t sell. More than anything, as a chef one really needs to read between the lines, understand many seemingly small nuances in the guest, and then trust those instincts.
    Phillip Foss
    Chef/Owner, EL ideas
    312-226-8144
    info@elideas.com
    website/blog - http://www.elideas.com
    twitter - http://www.twitter.com/phillipfoss
  • Post #2 - September 9th, 2009, 1:24 pm
    Post #2 - September 9th, 2009, 1:24 pm Post #2 - September 9th, 2009, 1:24 pm
    Chef Phillip,

    I think the question you posed in the thread title and the one in the content of the post are actually quite different, so I'll take them separately.

    Regarding whether increased sales of an item is universally a good thing, the answer - imo - is no. Spikes in sales of a particular item can certainly be good, but can also lead to at least two problems. First, if that dish's ingredient costs are high compared to other dishes, the spike could have a negative effect on the bottom line. Then again, sometimes the higher cost is offset because - depending what the dish is - customers who order it may be more (or less) likely to spend big money on wine, after dinner drinks, etc. So, as you noted, chefs have to use instinct, judgment, (and - very importantly - feedback from waitstaff and a study of end-of-night receipts) in these instances.

    The second problem is potentially more important: most restaurant kitchens rely on a certain number of "easy" dishes: stuff which may be conceptually complex and require significant prep work, but which requires little more than heating (if that) and plating at service time. There are other dishes which must truly be "cooked" to order, and require more focus (and time) during the service rush. If the sales spike happens to be in one of the more intensive dishes, this can have a hugely negative impact on the whole kitchen.


    Regarding how to get an item to sell, I agree with the two tactics you noted (pricing and getting the staff excited about it). You also noted that some ingredients are sure to sell because they are universally loved, which brings up a strategy many chefs employ to move more "exotic", traditionally unpopular stuff - namely, the top it with a runny egg strategy. Or a piece of lobster. Or a strip of bacon. Or a Hooters waitress.

    Bacon-wrapped durian. Lobster and rutabaga napoleon. Coddled egg with lima beans. Etc, etc. Bull testicles with, oh never mind.

    Kenny
    ...defended from strong temptations to social ambition by a still stronger taste for tripe and onions." Screwtape in The Screwtape Letters by CS Lewis

    Fuckerberg on Food
  • Post #3 - September 10th, 2009, 5:25 pm
    Post #3 - September 10th, 2009, 5:25 pm Post #3 - September 10th, 2009, 5:25 pm
    Only speaking as a professional diner not employed in the restaurant industry, the greatest thing to cause me to order a menu item is the wording of the dish on the menu. Forget the server, even the price, but make it sound amazing and I'm all in. But then the restaurant should deliver on the promise.

    As for the contest amongst servers as to who can sell the most of item x from the menu. That's, to me, a bad approach from the customer's perspective, at least at more upscale venues (Ok, it might be fine for something like a Denny's) but I think there is a certain loss of integrity between wait staff and customer with that, even on a subtle, nonconscious level. Recently I joked, when asking for suggestions (at a place where I am a regular and know the chef) "Ask the chef what he would order tonight, and I don't mean what he's trying to sell the most of. I mean what he, himself, would want." In truth, I was only half joking, as I didn't want an item pushed on me the restaurant was trying to get rid of. (The meal was fantastic, by the way).

    This doesn't mean the wait staff should figure out what I want; rather, it means, as we interact and they give me information, they can guide me to informed choices of my likes and dislikes. But trying to push an item because of a contest is a little like my stockbroker pushing a stock because she/he will get a higher commission as the brokerage house is trying to make a market in a given stock. Good for the house; not always the best for the customer.

    In the end, restaurants are in the hospitality business and those who offer the most hospitality will usually make the most money in the long run.
  • Post #4 - September 10th, 2009, 10:34 pm
    Post #4 - September 10th, 2009, 10:34 pm Post #4 - September 10th, 2009, 10:34 pm
    Kennyz wrote:Chef Phillip,

    I think the question you posed in the thread title and the one in the content of the post are actually quite different, so I'll take them separately.

    Regarding whether increased sales of an item is universally a good thing, the answer - imo - is no. Spikes in sales of a particular item can certainly be good, but can also lead to at least two problems. First, if that dish's ingredient costs are high compared to other dishes, the spike could have a negative effect on the bottom line. Then again, sometimes the higher cost is offset because - depending what the dish is - customers who order it may be more (or less) likely to spend big money on wine, after dinner drinks, etc. So, as you noted, chefs have to use instinct, judgment, (and - very importantly - feedback from waitstaff and a study of end-of-night receipts) in these instances.


    This is kind of a funny misconception, though not at all an angle I was considering. Yes food cost is very important. But the bottom line as a business man is that although the steak that I'm selling for 40+ dollars has a 50% food cost, I am still putting $20 in my pocket. Whereas a fish that sells for $20 with a 30% cost leaves me with only $14 to take home. Of course the issue there is that not everybody is going to pay $40+ for dinner so I would not be as busy as I would with a lower priced menu.
    Phillip Foss
    Chef/Owner, EL ideas
    312-226-8144
    info@elideas.com
    website/blog - http://www.elideas.com
    twitter - http://www.twitter.com/phillipfoss
  • Post #5 - September 10th, 2009, 10:36 pm
    Post #5 - September 10th, 2009, 10:36 pm Post #5 - September 10th, 2009, 10:36 pm
    Kennyz wrote:The second problem is potentially more important: most restaurant kitchens rely on a certain number of "easy" dishes: stuff which may be conceptually complex and require significant prep work, but which requires little more than heating (if that) and plating at service time. There are other dishes which must truly be "cooked" to order, and require more focus (and time) during the service rush. If the sales spike happens to be in one of the more intensive dishes, this can have a hugely negative impact on the whole kitchen.


    That is true. I have seen many kitchens go down (including my own once or twice) because too much time is spent on the intricacies of a complex dish.
    Phillip Foss
    Chef/Owner, EL ideas
    312-226-8144
    info@elideas.com
    website/blog - http://www.elideas.com
    twitter - http://www.twitter.com/phillipfoss
  • Post #6 - September 10th, 2009, 10:37 pm
    Post #6 - September 10th, 2009, 10:37 pm Post #6 - September 10th, 2009, 10:37 pm
    Kennyz wrote:Regarding how to get an item to sell, I agree with the two tactics you noted (pricing and getting the staff excited about it). You also noted that some ingredients are sure to sell because they are universally loved, which brings up a strategy many chefs employ to move more "exotic", traditionally unpopular stuff - namely, the top it with a runny egg strategy. Or a piece of lobster. Or a strip of bacon. Or a Hooters waitress.

    Bacon-wrapped durian. Lobster and rutabaga napoleon. Coddled egg with lima beans. Etc, etc. Bull testicles with, oh never mind.


    Probably the best ploy. I used to gamble with some fellow chefs in Hawaii and recall having marlin one night which was not a very popular fish there. He took the under on an over/under of around 12 portions for the evening. Of course the ace I was holding was to serve it with a crab crust. I recall laughing with glee as the over was met within the 1st hour of service.
    Phillip Foss
    Chef/Owner, EL ideas
    312-226-8144
    info@elideas.com
    website/blog - http://www.elideas.com
    twitter - http://www.twitter.com/phillipfoss
  • Post #7 - September 10th, 2009, 10:39 pm
    Post #7 - September 10th, 2009, 10:39 pm Post #7 - September 10th, 2009, 10:39 pm
    DutchMuse wrote:Only speaking as a professional diner not employed in the restaurant industry, the greatest thing to cause me to order a menu item is the wording of the dish on the menu. Forget the server, even the price, but make it sound amazing and I'm all in. But then the restaurant should deliver on the promise.


    This takes more time and thought than the average person (and even the average chef realize).
  • Post #8 - September 10th, 2009, 10:46 pm
    Post #8 - September 10th, 2009, 10:46 pm Post #8 - September 10th, 2009, 10:46 pm
    I read menu descriptions and I have no idea what the final thing will taste like. Of course that's because Menu-ese is deliberately opaque anyway ("Heirloom dirt-grown tomatillettes on a glacier of bark-root 'spackle'"). So it's no surprise if customers glom onto something that sounds like it will probably make it taste good, like bacon.

    I'd be curious to see a menu which tried to describe dishes not in terms of ingredients (I don't need the ingredients, you're the one cooking it) and just in terms of what they're like. Say:

    Beef— Big, bold, savory. This will wake you up, make the blood flow, and probably make you want to have sex right now.
    Sturgeon— Delicate, a little fussy, multi-leveled. Enough going on that you can zone out of your partner's conversation and think about the fish instead.
    Watch Sky Full of Bacon, the Chicago food HD podcast!
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  • Post #9 - September 10th, 2009, 10:51 pm
    Post #9 - September 10th, 2009, 10:51 pm Post #9 - September 10th, 2009, 10:51 pm
    DutchMuse wrote:As for the contest amongst servers as to who can sell the most of item x from the menu. That's, to me, a bad approach from the customer's perspective, at least at more upscale venues (Ok, it might be fine for something like a Denny's) but I think there is a certain loss of integrity between wait staff and customer with that, even on a subtle, nonconscious level. Recently I joked, when asking for suggestions (at a place where I am a regular and know the chef) "Ask the chef what he would order tonight, and I don't mean what he's trying to sell the most of. I mean what he, himself, would want." In truth, I was only half joking, as I didn't want an item pushed on me the restaurant was trying to get rid of. (The meal was fantastic, by the way).

    This doesn't mean the wait staff should figure out what I want; rather, it means, as we interact and they give me information, they can guide me to informed choices of my likes and dislikes. But trying to push an item because of a contest is a little like my stockbroker pushing a stock because she/he will get a higher commission as the brokerage house is trying to make a market in a given stock. Good for the house; not always the best for the customer.

    In the end, restaurants are in the hospitality business and those who offer the most hospitality will usually make the most money in the long run.


    A little clarification is in order here... I never create a contest to sell an item that is on the verge of going bad, only an item that is brand new, and myself and the servers are excited about. I can easily understand how it is that you can see that as a bad approach as a diner, and in many cases it can be as the kitchen creates these contests to move out ingredients on their last legs.
    From my side it is a means to create a little more excitement from the servers about items which i feel our average guest (which unfortunately I generalize when i say are not very knowledgeable about cuisine) would not naturally lean towards. The fear of being pushy or overly biased is a big reason we don't do these contests on an individual basis or with a monetary reward. Your points though are well stated.
    Phillip Foss
    Chef/Owner, EL ideas
    312-226-8144
    info@elideas.com
    website/blog - http://www.elideas.com
    twitter - http://www.twitter.com/phillipfoss
  • Post #10 - September 10th, 2009, 10:53 pm
    Post #10 - September 10th, 2009, 10:53 pm Post #10 - September 10th, 2009, 10:53 pm
    Mike G wrote:I read menu descriptions and I have no idea what the final thing will taste like. Of course that's because Menu-ese is deliberately opaque anyway ("Heirloom dirt-grown tomatillettes on a glacier of bark-root 'spackle'"). So it's no surprise if customers glom onto something that sounds like it will probably make it taste good, like bacon.

    I'd be curious to see a menu which tried to describe dishes not in terms of ingredients (I don't need the ingredients, you're the one cooking it) and just in terms of what they're like. Say:

    Beef— Big, bold, savory. This will wake you up, make the blood flow, and probably make you want to have sex right now.
    Sturgeon— Delicate, a little fussy, multi-leveled. Enough going on that you can zone out of your partner's conversation and think about the fish instead.


    I'll have the beef!
    Phillip Foss
    Chef/Owner, EL ideas
    312-226-8144
    info@elideas.com
    website/blog - http://www.elideas.com
    twitter - http://www.twitter.com/phillipfoss
  • Post #11 - September 11th, 2009, 1:36 am
    Post #11 - September 11th, 2009, 1:36 am Post #11 - September 11th, 2009, 1:36 am
    DutchMuse wrote:Only speaking as a professional diner not employed in the restaurant industry, the greatest thing to cause me to order a menu item is the wording of the dish on the menu. Forget the server, even the price, but make it sound amazing and I'm all in. But then the restaurant should deliver on the promise.

    As for the contest amongst servers as to who can sell the most of item x from the menu. That's, to me, a bad approach from the customer's perspective, at least at more upscale venues (Ok, it might be fine for something like a Denny's) but I think there is a certain loss of integrity between wait staff and customer with that, even on a subtle, nonconscious level. Recently I joked, when asking for suggestions (at a place where I am a regular and know the chef) "Ask the chef what he would order tonight, and I don't mean what he's trying to sell the most of. I mean what he, himself, would want." In truth, I was only half joking, as I didn't want an item pushed on me the restaurant was trying to get rid of. (The meal was fantastic, by the way).

    This doesn't mean the wait staff should figure out what I want; rather, it means, as we interact and they give me information, they can guide me to informed choices of my likes and dislikes. But trying to push an item because of a contest is a little like my stockbroker pushing a stock because she/he will get a higher commission as the brokerage house is trying to make a market in a given stock. Good for the house; not always the best for the customer.

    In the end, restaurants are in the hospitality business and those who offer the most hospitality will usually make the most money in the long run.


    Unfortunately a decent amount of specials happen to be items that the restaurant may want to move. Sure there are a great deal of specials that the Chef just happens to like or that the restaurant is trying for the first time to see if it makes the cut for the menu, but a lot of specials are meant to move product. In no way does that mean your meal will be anything but extraordinary but there's a good chance that some items used in the dish may be less than satisfactory the following day. I've worked in a handful of restaurants ranging from sandwich shops up to 4 star dinning and it can all be the same. The quality of your meal is no less than the others. The point of the special is to prevent loss and in the end be able to keep cost down for guests. It's something that has to be executed. If a restaurant realizes that they have 15 pounds of Tuna belly that may turn in a few days it's going to hit the menu quick.

    And for Phillip...I think it's so many things. Menu items must be listed differently depending on location, restaurant, day of the week and so much more. The weekday diners are much more adventurous than the weekend crew that's ready for a steak or simple fish. Good luck pushing Sturgeon or Rabbit during the weekend. During the weekdays you can push out 20 veal brain dishes to the 'foodies' and normals that love your food. I tried keeping specials simple no matter what the occasion. It's not something that your crew is ready for so if you do end up selling a ton it may pose a threat to your service. My personal hatred was for the day that salad/app station would get scallops for their dish requiring them to use a burner and in essence mix up the flow of the entire line. On a weekend this can be dramatic.
    GOOD TIMES!
  • Post #12 - September 11th, 2009, 8:20 am
    Post #12 - September 11th, 2009, 8:20 am Post #12 - September 11th, 2009, 8:20 am
    Jayz wrote:And for Phillip...I think it's so many things. Menu items must be listed differently depending on location, restaurant, day of the week and so much more.


    The place on the menu an item is located can make a difference. Studies have been done as to where the guest is most likely to glance at a menu. Generally at the top and middle of the page. I always will have one of our lower cost items at the top to attract in diners who are trying to decide whether or not to come in.
  • Post #13 - September 12th, 2009, 11:37 am
    Post #13 - September 12th, 2009, 11:37 am Post #13 - September 12th, 2009, 11:37 am
    This is a very important and interesting thread, and one that I hope to comment upon, however I just stumbled upon it on the "professional forum." Moderators, I think that it belongs under Other Culinary Chat. I suspect that I am not alone in rarely checking the Professional Forum since I am not in the industry. The thread deserves greater attention.
    Toast, as every breakfaster knows, isn't really about the quality of the bread or how it's sliced or even the toaster. For man cannot live by toast alone. It's all about the butter. -- Adam Gopnik
  • Post #14 - September 12th, 2009, 2:46 pm
    Post #14 - September 12th, 2009, 2:46 pm Post #14 - September 12th, 2009, 2:46 pm
    GAF wrote:Moderators, I think that it belongs under Other Culinary Chat.

    Your wish is our command. :)

    =R=
    By protecting others, you save yourself. If you only think of yourself, you'll only destroy yourself. --Kambei Shimada

    Every human interaction is an opportunity for disappointment --RS

    There's a horse loose in a hospital --JM

    That don't impress me much --Shania Twain
  • Post #15 - September 12th, 2009, 7:22 pm
    Post #15 - September 12th, 2009, 7:22 pm Post #15 - September 12th, 2009, 7:22 pm
    You can lead a horse to water... is my motto as to a server's recommendations. If is sounds spot on- I am there-despite where it is or not located on the menu. I truly believe that there is something personal as to how one reads the menu. I know that there is a lot of marketing strategy used in developing a menu but it all comes down to selection, unusual offerings, price and what one wants to eat that night. When hubby and I are dining we are drawn to different areas of the menu and food choices.
    What disease did cured ham actually have?
  • Post #16 - September 12th, 2009, 9:15 pm
    Post #16 - September 12th, 2009, 9:15 pm Post #16 - September 12th, 2009, 9:15 pm
    As important as getting a diner to try a dish is the need for that diner after having ordered the dish to wish to return to the restaurant. What one is attempting to do through food and service is to persuade the diner that the restaurant is a place to return, hopefully again and again. Put another way, the staff wants the diner to see the restaurant as a "home space." Now this relates to the menu writer as novelist: the diner must be persuaded that s/he has a choice, but also that what s/he imagines the dish will be like is what it is (or that the dish is better than the imagination). One of my complaints with some forms of modern cuisine is that some restaurants list a large array of ingredients (tastes and textures) on the menu, but sometimes the ingredients cannot easily be discerned. If I order a dish because of vanilla-scented Brussels Sprouts and they turn out to be just g.d. Brussels Sprouts, I will leave disappointed. So the chef needs to be concerned not just with what it takes to get a customer to order, but also what it takes to get the customer to feel that the order was wise in retrospect.
    Toast, as every breakfaster knows, isn't really about the quality of the bread or how it's sliced or even the toaster. For man cannot live by toast alone. It's all about the butter. -- Adam Gopnik
  • Post #17 - September 13th, 2009, 1:41 pm
    Post #17 - September 13th, 2009, 1:41 pm Post #17 - September 13th, 2009, 1:41 pm
    I agree with much of the above statement, though I will also say that a majority of the guests will forget the accompaniments of a dish shortly after the order is placed. They may recall ordering the halibut, but won't remember exactly what comes with it. Even from the kitchen side, it has happens on a rare occasion that a new dish will be placed on the menu and not only will a cook leave an ingredient off of it, but it will get past myself until towards the end of the night when it hits me. It is almost always only an embellishment and not an integral ingredient, but it is still frustrating.
    My menu is created to engage the reader and I even will use word plays at times. I like for them to know that it is not a kitchen manager here, but someone who is giving considerable thought to the ingredients themselves and how they pair with each other.
  • Post #18 - September 13th, 2009, 3:31 pm
    Post #18 - September 13th, 2009, 3:31 pm Post #18 - September 13th, 2009, 3:31 pm
    GAF wrote:As important as getting a diner to try a dish is the need for that diner after having ordered the dish to wish to return to the restaurant. What one is attempting to do through food and service is to persuade the diner that the restaurant is a place to return, hopefully again and again. Put another way, the staff wants the diner to see the restaurant as a "home space." Now this relates to the menu writer as novelist: the diner must be persuaded that s/he has a choice, but also that what s/he imagines the dish will be like is what it is (or that the dish is better than the imagination)...So the chef needs to be concerned not just with what it takes to get a customer to order, but also what it takes to get the customer to feel that the order was wise in retrospect.

    Another aspect of this (I thought it was where you were going, even though where you really were going was even more interesting) is that nothing makes me want to return to a restaurant more than seeing ten entrees that all look so good I wish I could order all of them that night. Even before I've eaten, I'm saying to myself, "Well, sigh, I only have one stomach, but I'll have to come back and try some of those others." To achieve this, a menu has to do more than "cover bases" ("this is what we've got if you want fish, this is what we've got if you want lamb," etc.); it has to make you need things you didn't even know you wanted. Like all advertising.

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