Darren72 wrote:

chezbrad wrote:

linutink wrote:I do note that other cities have more than one pizzeria listed in his top 25 (New York, I can understand, but Boston?).

Better question: What's with the Detroit love?

Well, here's what he wrote:

3. Detroit. No city has more consistently satisfying pies than Detroit. No city executes its particular style, in this case the square Sicilian, as flawlessly as Detroit. Hard to go wrong wherever you eat, although a hopeless local peculiarity is burying the pepperoni under the sauce.

Is this inaccurate?

I was asking the exact same question after reading this and it warranted an immediate roadtrip to Detroit (with Rene G in tow). Having never had the pleasure of experiencing Detroit pizza before, I was extremely interested in checking it out after reading the article. I figured any city that has FOUR places represented in any Top blah-blah list warrants an immediate four-hour drive.

Peter and I tried both Buddy’s pizza (#15) & Tomatoes Apizza (#21).

Richman claims that Buddy’s “pizza crust is one of the best in America.” and I would fully agree if I equated great pizza crust to most shrimp toast. This stuff was so greazy that I almost asked our waitress if they had any showers there to hose down after eating a couple of squares. It didn’t help that they glazed the top of the pizza with a one-dimensional super-sweet/thin cheap-thrill tomato sauce. This isn’t bad pizza but it’s certainly a far cry from being noteworthy.

The young pizzaiola at Tomatoes Apizza immediately told us how the owner models his pies after the great efforts found in New Haven, CT (Sally’s, Pepe’s, whomever). I’ve unfortunately never had the fortune to partake of the legendary New Haven-style pizza before, but if it resembles anything like this stuff, I’ll be holding off for awhile. This was an oily, low-grade floppy mess with no crust-al integrity whatsoever. When we inquired about their supposed coal oven, they told us that it is located at their other location (29275 14-Mile Road) which wasn’t even mentioned in the GQ article. She assured us that the pizza we ordered was virtually identical to the other location’s coal-fired version, feeling confident in claiming this since she also worked there as well. Hmm.
Again, not bad pizza but not even close to noteworthy.

I’m hoping Rene G puts up side-by-side pictures (sorry, my camera recently broke) of Difara’s (Brooklyn) pan pizza versus Buddy’s squares so you can see how ludicrous some of these choices can really be. Surprisingly, Difara didn’t even make this list.

In the end, I think we were in agreement that Richman’s wife must have grown up somewhere around Detroit.

PIGMON wrote:This stuff was so greazy that I almost asked our waitress if they had any showers there to hose down after eating a couple of squares. It didn’t help that they glazed the top of the pizza with a one-dimensional super-sweet/thin cheap-thrill tomato sauce. This isn’t bad pizza

(emphasis mine)

I sure would hate to see your description of what does qualify as bad pizza

How frustrating this place is!!! It is too tiny. We went there, had a 90 minute wait and were told after 90 minutes, that there would be a two hour more wait (it was 8 pm by now and they close at 9pm). We left our cell number the entire time and they never even called.

.....maybe you shoulda went before it was named "best pizza in America" by a major publication.

Hi,

When we were at Gypsy Boy's for an olive oil tasting, the plan was to order pizza from Great Lake. I suggested calling when they opened to place our order. Our friend who placed the order, collected information on the day's specials and was going to call back once she had a consensus. I cut in suggesting she simply order right then and there, which was echoed on Great Lake's side, too. During that time, the wait climbed from something like 6:30 to 7:15. This was before they were announced as best pizza in America.

I wonder if they will find notes tucked into the door ordering pizza to be shipped to Houston, which Burt experienced after his pizza was in Saveur.

Regards,

Now it should be even harder to get in as they are also mentioned in June 2009 Food & Wine.....under New Pizza Artisans. Good luck folks!

i'm kinda sad this place got recognition. i can't even go there anymore. I mean, I could and I'm sure Lydia would make me a pie, but I'd feel bad about it.

saw her this morning walking on the way to work

I do tire of every review even taking wait time into account. named best in country and you expect to get seated with a pie in 20 minutes.

Chitown B wrote:i'm kinda sad this place got recognition. i can't even go there anymore. I mean, I could and I'm sure Lydia would make me a pie, but I'd feel bad about it.

Sounds like you are the one complaining about the wait times.

In all seriousness, there are very few posts on LTH Forum from people complaining about the wait times. I am not sure which posts you are tiring of. GL isn't the first, and won't be the last, place to have incredibly long wait times. I think everyone seems to get it.

Some have discussed the wait times, but this is really useful information - it saves us from showing at at 7pm and thinking we can get a pizza right away.

Darren72 wrote:

Chitown B wrote:i'm kinda sad this place got recognition. i can't even go there anymore. I mean, I could and I'm sure Lydia would make me a pie, but I'd feel bad about it.

Sounds like you are the one complaining about the wait times.

In all seriousness, there are very few posts on LTH Forum from people complaining about the wait times. I am not sure which posts you are tiring of. GL isn't the first, and won't be the last, place to have incredibly long wait times. I think everyone seems to get it.

Some have discussed the wait times, but this is really useful information - it saves us from showing at at 7pm and thinking we can get a pizza right away.

I've not been complaining about the wait times. it's just too packed anymore. it's hard to justify waiting for a few hours when we are feet from our apartment. it's just different knowing what it was and what it is now. I liked that it was almost a secret before.

I wasn't necessarily talking about just LTH'ers. Mostly Yelp people.

Love it still. Just kinda wish it was still just small time. And so does Lydia.

Speaking of Yelp. I added my two cents at 3am the other night. I could not stand to read one more cruel comment without speaking up. Very likely nothing accomplished but at least it helped my insomnia.

I visited Great Lake two weeks ago and I was seated immediately at the large communal table with two friends (odd, I thought). I didn't like the salad with the vinaigrette, I felt it was too bitter (perhaps the choice of greens?). The cheese pizza was phenomenal, I have an obsession with the crust. We also got a mushroom with white sauce pizza and it was pretty good, but I'm more of a traditionalist when it comes to pizza, I feel it must have red sauce! The winner of the evening was the salami pizza, it was simply fantastic.

I believe it was prepared the same way the mortadella pizza was prepared (cook a cheese pizza, place thin slices of mortadella/salami on top once it's done) and it was simply delicious. I look forward to going back again.

If the demand resided a bit, I hope it was enjoyed.
http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2 ... #continued

Apparently demand has not receded, according to the Trib.

"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

You know, it's right down the street from me (I live on Balmoral) but I can't deal with the idea of such a wait time. Kudos to the proprietors for sticking to their guns but I'll never go. Unless maybe before opening. But my life is chaotic enough it's hard to plan that far in advance.

I totally understand where they're coming from, in terms of stress and expectations, but in that article the proprietors repeatedly implied Chicago did not deserve them. "We wonder if Chicago is the right city." As if they were the only good pizza makers here, right? I've never been, and I imagine it's a good pizza, but I'm more than happy with Spacca and Coal Fire - or maybe even Crust - for what I imagine are comparable pies.

I totally understand where they're coming from, in terms of stress and expectations, but in that article the proprietors repeatedly implied Chicago did not deserve them. "We wonder if Chicago is the right city." As if they were the only good pizza makers here, right? I've never been, and I imagine it's a good pizza, but I'm more than happy with Spacca and Coal Fire - or maybe even Crust - for what I imagine are comparable pies.

EXACTLY! That's the thing about yesterday's Trib article that got me going. Maybe if Chicago isn't the city, what is? Altoona, PA? Destin, FL? The couple better thank their lucky stars they caught lightning in a bottle in that trendy/fickle neighborhood, and that they don't have to compete with the likes of Settebello in Vegas or Salt Lake City. Now, full disclosure--I have not eaten pizza from Great Lake. Nor Spacca. I thought Coalfire was OK, nothing special. And personally speaking, I don't care if the pizza is gold-plated, I ain't waiting an hour.

I just wonder if the owners know that they're messing with fire. They say they want a life, they don't have a car, so when they're out of something, they're out, and they close. If people have to endure multiple hour waits, sorry Charlie. There's a fine line between serving a good product to a customer best you can & p***ing them off. At some point, they don't come back, unless they're masochists.

From reading the article, I have to say that, while it might initially come off as a bit megalomaniacal, I understand where they're coming from. Look at how hard LTHers have to work to find people who are making homemade food without compromising their original principles: there are over 6000 restaurants in the area, but we probably discuss less than 10% of that number. Think about how many Chicagoans it takes to keep all our area McDonald's afloat for a day. While I think they're overlooking all the folks who really love food here, sadly, there is an overwhelming majority who could care less (otherwise, why would we all be here?)

If you want to stand against the onslaught of popular opinion, you have to be a bit of an asshole, otherwise you're either Pizza Hut or spending all your hard-earned dollars on therapy. Impressively, these guys don't like to be assholes, but their defense is to dig their heels in quietly, grit their teeth, and keep doing things their own way. They are right: there is no way to do what they're doing without making compromises, and the compromise they're willing to make is their customer's comfort, instead of the quality of their food.

I'm with them - I'd rather be a little uncomfortable than eat Pizza Hut any day. (Of course, the compromise I usually make in these situations is to go home and make whatever it is, myself.) But kudos to them for staying the course.

Mhays wrote:there are over 6000 restaurants in the area, but we probably discuss less than 10% of that number. Think about how many Chicagoans it takes to keep all our area McDonald's afloat for a day

Yeah, but that's true anywhere. I've had bad food lots of places (including Paris, San Francisco, New York). I lived in New York for a while and I found some great restaurants. But even though I researched pretty aggressively, the great places didn't make up more than 10% of the places I tried. And think of all the god-awful successful tourist places in Time Square (ESPN Zone, anyone?). I think Chicagoans are very supportive of great food and the LTH is a testament to that.
I really like the pizza at Great Lake. And I really like the pizza at Coal Fire. And I'm working on making good thin crust at home. I don't fault the owners of Great Lake--I'm happy for their success and I admire them for sticking to their principles. I don't understand the complaining--there's lots of good pizza in Chicago. Right now, given the crowds at Great Lake, my choice is to drive to Coal Fire. Or fire up my oven. And when/if the hub-bub dies down, I'll be back to Great Lake.
But I also don't understand the owner's griping about the griping. I mean, why get defensive? They have plenty of patrons, which shows that there's plenty of appreciation for what they do. The people who don't like the hours or the wait can go elsewhere.

jnm123 wrote:At some point, they don't come back, unless they're masochists.

With only a dozen or so seats and being open around 20 hours a week, you can alienate a lot of people and still be full all the time. And I think that's the crux of the story. They set out to do something and they're doing it. The huge crowds have no bearing on their acheivement. If the crowds disappear, they'll still be doing the same thing -- probably enjoying it more -- and suffering zero financial consequences.

=R=

One of the comments in the article that I found most thought-provoking was something along the lines of, how do you become a neighborhood regular at such a place (where it takes upwards of two hours to get food, and where the kitchen might shut down at any moment)?

Who exactly is the target audience, I wonder? It's great once, twice, three times, four times, but at more than two hours a wait each time, how much trouble is it worth? Who will be the customer base when the crowd in search of novelty has been there enough times that the novelty has worn off?

Not to say, as it seems Mhays is saying, that craftmanship is admirable. But do you need more of a business plan than just craftmanship? Particularly when what you are crafting is a food that pretty much everyone knows can be prepared and cooked in 15 minutes or less?

Just wondering.

Mhays wrote:I'm with them - I'd rather be a little uncomfortable than eat Pizza Hut any day.

I must point out the obvious. Chicago provides many other great pizza choices before you have to dive to the depths of Pizza Hut as the alternative.

Vitesse98 wrote:I totally understand where they're coming from, in terms of stress and expectations, but in that article the proprietors repeatedly implied Chicago did not deserve them. "We wonder if Chicago is the right city." As if they were the only good pizza makers here, right? I've never been, and I imagine it's a good pizza, but I'm more than happy with Spacca and Coal Fire - or maybe even Crust - for what I imagine are comparable pies.

Agreed. If we can be upset about Bill Kim at Urban Belly knocking virtual communities, might as well call this knocking of a real community for what it is - bad form.

I arrived at GL today at 450pm, prepared to wait 40 minutes before their expected opening at 530! Surprisingly there was one other guy already there waiting... Sadly, we both realized that there was a sign saying that they are closed until the 16th of Sep, they probably needed a much deserved break after all the hoopla. Here's hoping they are enjoying their break and come back refreshed!

stevez wrote:

Mhays wrote:I'm with them - I'd rather be a little uncomfortable than eat Pizza Hut any day.

I must point out the obvious. Chicago provides many other great pizza choices before you have to dive to the depths of Pizza Hut as the alternative.

True, but all of those places have made some compromises of product over public. For instance, most restrict the number of locations (and most of those restrict that to one.)

Is it only me that sees the parallels between Great Lake & Burt's?

Their pizzas are as different as can be, but both places apparently refuse to compromise quality control or a total upheaval in their personal lives just to serve a wanting public when THEY want it. As I used to kid Burt way back when, it's the 'anti-businessman's way of doing business'.

In the grand scheme of things, more powah to them.

FoodSnob77 wrote:I arrived at GL today at 450pm, prepared to wait 40 minutes before their expected opening at 530! Surprisingly there was one other guy already there waiting... Sadly, we both realized that there was a sign saying that they are closed until the 16th of Sep, they probably needed a much deserved break after all the hoopla. Here's hoping they are enjoying their break and come back refreshed!

I'm so glad you put this up. I contemplated heading over today so that I could taste before the GNR's close. This one has the controversy of Schwa's early days & I knew I would have to go without my husband (he has issues with waiting so it blows the food experience completely out of the water). I guess I won't be getting there prior to September 14th.

Heck, I could fly to JFK, taxi to DiFara, wait for about 45 minutes for one of his pies (and have my picture taking with Dominick DeMarco), taxi to JFK, and arrive at O'Hare, and you'll still be waiting at Great Lake!

GAF wrote:Heck, I could fly to JFK, taxi to DiFara, wait for about 45 minutes for one of his pies (and have my picture taking with Dominick DeMarco), taxi to JFK, and arrive at O'Hare, and you'll still be waiting at Great Lake!

Best pizza I've ever had..... so glad to have been close so I could stop by for a slice

I must confess - given my comment - that I have enjoyed Great Lake Pizza (this was still when they were accepting phone orders). I called at 4:30 for two pies at 5:30. I ordered the mushroom pizza and the mozzarella, tomato, and sopressata. Both pizzas were among the best that I have had in Chicago (different from Burt's, Vito's, Spacca Napoli, and the old Candlelite, but excellent in its own way). GL is one of the few pizzerias that does toppings and crust equally well. So I do recommend GL for a GNR. It is worth a drive to Andersonville from the suburbs, but not a whole evening camping out.

talked to Lydia and Nick the other afternoon walking my dog. They had closed for a week right after the article came out. They're doing well, still very busy and stressed, but it was dying down a bit until the article will probably slam them again. Nick didn't seem to be that thrilled with it, said they got a lot of things wrong.

I hope they stick around. I live a couple doors down and see them often out riding their bikes or with their dog and we talk. Really nice people who get a bad rep for just doing something that makes them happy and not trying to be more than that.