backorforth wrote:Am I the only one that has no interest in Xoco? Overrated and overpriced. So many other spots to eat this sort of food. Perhaps the ingredients aren't as fancy, but I guarantee you can find food equally tasty in the same vein.

Like where? What are your favorite spots for the type of food served at Xoco?

backorforth wrote:Am I the only one that has no interest in Xoco? Overrated and overpriced. So many other spots to eat this sort of food. Perhaps the ingredients aren't as fancy, but I guarantee you can find food equally tasty in the same vein.

If you've eaten there, you clearly had some interest in it. If you haven't, how do you know if it's overrated?

I do agree with you about overpriced, even for the neighborhood, but I don't see how you can both have no interest in a place and be well informed about whether the food lives up to the hype.

I've been three times to Xoco now, the first visit including both breakfast and lunch.

Breakfast is utterly worthwhile, in terms of price. For as much money as you could easily spend at a Starbucks/Lavazza, and less than what you'd spend at a trendier coffeeshop, you get a pretty solid breakfast. The chocolate drinks are the best value. The Aztec, at around two dollars, is also the tastiest: thin, savory, purely chocolatey. The pastries are fine, as well. The sour cream coffeecake was not overly sweet, if not particularly Mexican. I thought the butteriness of the concha shone through, which at least separated it from the standard bakery type. The churros rival the fresh ones on Maxwell Street, and come in at the same price. Not being a big breakfast eater, I passed on the morning tortas, but they look interesting and are more reasonable than the lunch options. All in all, you bit some decent chow in your gullet for under ten bucks, which is a feat in River North.

Lunch leans less in the reasonable direction, but is still a quality alternative for the area. My friend and I split a Cuban and a cochinita pibil. Bang for the buck: go with the Cuban. The smoked pork loin was indeed smoky, if slightly dry. Bacon, avocado, and a million other things, crammed into a nicely griddled sandwich, made for a party in one's mouth. I loved the cochinita pibil, but, as noted elsewhere, it lacked a bit in the volume-of-meat department, which is an important department. The pickled onions were stellar, but it ain't called a pickled onion sandwich. I happened to see someone preparing them one day, but sadly couldn't discern the pickling spices. The cochinita pibil itself was nice--fairly spicy, not noticeably smoky by itself. Mine was missing the black bean concoction, which hurt my opinion a bit.

All in all, I really like Xoco. I wouldn't call it earth-shattering, but I would call it a "why-didn't-we-have-this-sooner" kind of place. For those of us who can't pop down to 26th Street on a whim, and who wish Maxwell Street was seven days a week and more conveniently located, Xoco fills a pretty cool niche. It's dependably delicious, and costs as much as anything in the area. Hopefully, once the Bayless' glow of success fades a bit, and winter thins the crowds of suburbanites/vacationers, the wait will become as palatable as the food.

That said, I'm also interested in finding equally good cochinita pibil for the same money in River North

Alright. Don't go here between 10:30 or 11:00 expecting a torta. Kitchen is closed at that time. I got there at 10:50 and waited up by the register (second in line). By 11:00 there were probably 20 people in line (head shakes).

Wanted to get the short rib red chile soup, but then noticed they don't serve soup until after 3:00 PM. Not sure the logic there (what's a Mexican lunch without a little bowl of chicken soup?). So I got the $12 Pepito (braised shortrib) torta and the Authentic (water-based) chocolate.

Chocolate came out in about two minutes and was a revelation. Really outstanding. An absolute steal at $2.50. I'd drink one of those every morning if I worked closer. Plus I was starving and that "took the edge off" while I waited for the torta....which came after about 10 minutes total.

It (the torta) was very good and quite different from the typical "gut-buster" torta often served at local taquerias (chopped greasy meat, melted cheese, mayo, avocado on a soft roll - those are great too). No complaints about the amount of meat, I thought the bread/meat ratio was perfect. Bread was chewy and not dried out at all, as I had feared. Came with salsa verde which was good but kind of skimpy in volume (must be one of Rick's pet peeves - "those bastards always want more salsa!") I was desperately craving some pickled chiles/vegies on the side (like I need a pickle with a sandwich). But alas, the torta was left all by itself in that big basket. Overall the torta was not AMAZING, just pretty damn good.

Picked up a piece of choco-flan (chocolate cake bottom, flan top) for the wife and snuck a bite. Good but not amazing. Worth about its $4.50 price.

Overall it was a positive experience. I would certainly go again when in the neighborhood. In terms of value, I'd say the tortas are a bit overpriced, but then if they were $6, there'd be lines around the block, which I would find worse (gotta ration demand somehow). I really wish they offered soup at lunch (the older I get, the more I love soup). And like I said, that sandwich was really calling out for some kind of cold and crunchy counterbalance to the unctuous torta.

Went today right at noon. Back at the office by 1:15. So a little longer than i should have been out, but all and all a mighty fine lunch. I can def see the "price" issue, as we had a $43 lunch for two. But we got two tortas, two aqua frescas, chips & guac, churros and a scoop of ice cream. They got us with the 25 minute wait to order as everything sounded good but I'm positively stuffed.

We split the pepito (short-rib) and the cochinita pibil. Both we very good. I had a hard time picking a favorite. The pepito was extremely beefy and rich. The pibil reminded me of small stands in the yucatan and as has been noted the pickled onions were great (as was the pork). Also the habanero salsa, which they warn you is quite hot, was quite hot, but had great flavor. My lunch mate said it turned my face red, but I couldn't stop putting it on the torta.

I would have to say that they were each three times as good as the $4 tortas I enjoy at the local spots by my house. I've also paid $11 bucks for a pathetic salad and a soda from cosi around the corner from xoco. So, it's seems more of a value proposition as opposed to a price issue. It wasn't cheap, but I felt like I got what i paid for. I will def be going back to give the other tortas a try. Plus the soups sound delish. I can see that as an option for taking home for dinner once they start offering carryout.

Also, I thought I would need something to go along with the torta, whereas I am now sitting at my desk slightly bloated I can admit I would have been perfectly happy with just the sandwich, although the wait to order and the wait for the tortas was nicely broken up by the chips and guac.

nr706 wrote:

backorforth wrote:Am I the only one that has no interest in Xoco? Overrated and overpriced. So many other spots to eat this sort of food. Perhaps the ingredients aren't as fancy, but I guarantee you can find food equally tasty in the same vein.

Like where? What are your favorite spots for the type of food served at Xoco?

I am not the poster you asked this too, but I tried the head cheese torta at $10. Although it tasted fine (and yes, I do like headcheese and know what it is), I felt like they skimped on the meat. The Barcelona (chocolate and coffee drink was superb and I would get that again).

There are other sandwiches I would like to try at Xoco and am not ruling out never returning but I thought the torta cubana at Frontera Fresco was always a great sandwich and for a non Rick Bayless joint, I think Cafecito on Congress and Wabash puts out a great sandwich at a steal of a price at 4.99 for a cubano.

I went today at about 2:15. Missed the lunch rush but still waited 15 mins or so for my cochinita pibil.

The good: the bread was very nice. crunchy on the outside with a nice crumb. The habanero sauce was fiery but in small quantities, it lent its fruity heat nicely to the sandwich. The pickled red onions were a good topping, but I can make pickled red onions.

The bad: the pork was dry and, I do agree, a bit skimpy of a portion. It took some digging to find the black beans as well.

The ugly: the $2 ($2.50 ?) for a pepsi in an 8oz plastic cup filled with 2/3 ice.

All in all, it was very good, but $18.50 for a quick lunch of pulled pork is a bit much. Perhaps the chicken would be a better value.

I arrived at 10:45 today and found a short line (made a little longer by the fact that the computer system was down, which seemed to stymie the staff for a little bit, but the problem was soon solved). I ordered a torta from the wood-burning oven: Woodland Mushroom torta with wood-roasted garlic mushrooms, prairie farm goat cheese, black beans, wild arugula, and 3-chile salsa ($9.50). What really distinguishes Xoco is the bread, which is crunchy and fresh - a nice a bagette as is found in River North. The mix of flavors was enjoyable, although there were few black beans to be found.

It should be noted that to enter Xoco one needs to cross a picket-line. The Carpenter's Union is in a labor dispute with the Goldberg General Contracting which built Xoco and asks Chicagoans to boycott Xoco. The strikers are complaining about substandard wages from Goldberg, but their flier is an attack on Rick Bayless - it is both snarky and quite amusing as a form of culinary attack. It reads in part:

"Well, congratulations Mr. Rick "Payless" Bayless. You've opened another taco stand. How proud you must be! Why, with your TV shows, book deals & celebrity awards, you must be quite pleased with yourself. But being so busy, you probably didn't notice the Carpenters pickets outside Xoco . . . and you were probably too busy reading fan mail and rearranging your trophy case to notice our handbills . . . And while you were picking the right wine to serve and lugging all those royalty checks to the bank - you probably didn't have time to consider that some carpenters' families may have lost their union provided health care insurance because they were unemployed while you built your newest guacamole shrine on the cheap."

I am not going to adjudicate the justice of their cause and whether Xoco should be their target (and, indeed, what Chef Bayless could do at this point), but the existence of a picket line should be noted for those who would prefer not to cross one. And the text is a nifty example of how gustatory insults can be penned.

GAF wrote:What really distinguishes Xoco is the bread, which is crunchy and fresh - a nice a bagette as is found in River North. The mix of flavors was enjoyable, although there were few black beans to be found.

In recent interviews he gave about Xoco's opening, Rick Bayless revealed (for persons unfamiliar with his restaurants) that he purchases his bread rolls (and maybe other products) from Labriola. Those rolls are what most people (including myself) seem to compliment most about the sandwiches from the restaurant. At prices climbing to as high as $12 for some sandwiches, they're probably the most expensively-sold rolls in Chicago (in the manner they're sold as skimpy sandwiches at Xoco).

GAF wrote:It should be noted that to enter Xoco one needs to cross a picket-line.

I walked past the restaurant at about 1 p.m. and the picket line seemed to have been moved, discontinued - and what remained were two men holding up a large sign resting on the ground which criticized Bayless, and they were located near the corner of Clark St. and not near the entrance. Similar protests are taking place at other businesses in the River North neighborhood and I passed one or two of them earlier in the week, in front of a hotel. Same union, same tactics - different targets. I'm a bit surprised, though, that the union has refused to identify itself on it's signs - an uncommon tactic for labor unions which are typically proud of who they are and what they're protesting about. I saw no union label on the sigh, either - giving me the clear impression it was produced by non-union labor. There was a similar protest in front of Xoco, probably by members of the same union, maybe a month prior to its opening.

For those of us who've liked the bread so much it will probably be preferable to purchase it retail, instead of premium-priced. Click on the link that follows to view a list of some of the locations Labriola is sold in the Chicagoland area:

http://www.labriolabaking.com/locations.htm

A neighbor of mine told me she purchases the bread at Trader Joe's.

Considering the Labriola roles are bespoke for Bayless and are not, to my knowledge, available at retail, it doesn't really matter to me whether Bayless makes them in-house or has them made to his specifications. Just like I don't really care that Doug isn't personally stuffing sausages in the back of his shop.

edit: Obviously, lots of Labriola breads are available at retail, like their pretzel rolls, baguettes, and sourdough. But I'm referring specifically to the bolillos and teleras that Xoco uses. I certainly hope the rolls start showing up outside of Xoco, though.

This just in from Dish:

Xoco (449 N. Clark St.; 312-334-3688), Rick Bayless’s insanely popular ode to Mexican street food, has taken the street out of the equation: It no longer offers carry-out

I looks like the lines may get a little shorter.

You can get carry-out drinks, not sandwiches.

I was surprised that the specific union was not mentioned on the flier (it speaks of "the carpenters union," but it is not clear if this is the local of the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America). Strictly speaking it was not a picket line (i.e., a group of chanting marchers), but several men holding signs and passing out fliers between Clark Street and the entrance to Xoco).

stevez wrote:This just in from Dish:

Xoco (449 N. Clark St.; 312-334-3688), Rick Bayless’s insanely popular ode to Mexican street food, has taken the street out of the equation: It no longer offers carry-out

I looks like the lines may get a little shorter.

Come on, Rick. I hope this is Dish getting it wrong (or right, but only for a temporary condition), otherwise the "street food" charm of the place is indeed fleeting. I wonder how they'll manage lines and lingering diners, then, if you have to eat in-house.

Drinks to go is at least something. Are there any pre-prepared items to pick up as a snack and walk out with?

I don't think they ever began allowing carryout, except maybe the first day. When I was there, no carryout at all.

Once the crowds die down (if the crowds die down), I'm sure carryout will return.

After the first morning, or first full day - carry-out was stopped. Bayless talked about some of that on his blog - referring to a customer the first day ordering 25-empanadas and how long it takes to produce that product under his guidelines. The thought of a fast-food, or quasi fast-food operation at Xoco was nice in theory but hasn't worked well in practice because the business appears organized with a staff and standards most full-service, sit down restaurants utilize and working that way results in the 15-20 minute wait for orders to be prepared. Some of the menu items won't travel well, or getting the products into appropriate take-out containers could prove a callenge for the Bayless group at Xoco. The lines will probably slack-off once the cold weather hits and the people who go "ga ga" over anything Bayless touches pay a couple of high tabs and ask themselves, "Why?" It should be a tribute to staff of the trio of Bayless restaurants that they've handled the crush of Xoco customers and the stress that's placed on the rest of the organization so well - without falling apart. Bayless talks about that, too, on his blog. Earlier in this discussion thread someone (sorry, I'm forgetting who at the moment) posted a link to those remarks.

Sandwiches come in a basket protected by a paper wrapper. After one gets a sandwich (at least for most of the sandwiches), one can use the wrapping to make it a take-out, which is what I did with half of my sandwich. However, one does need to find a seat and have a server deliver the sandwich, which may take 5-10 minutes. They also have pastries that if one brings one's own wrappings can become take-out.

Santander wrote:Come on, Rick. I hope this is Dish getting it wrong (or right, but only for a temporary condition), otherwise the "street food" charm of the place is indeed fleeting.

This is not and has never been a street food place - it is a restaurant with dishes that are inspired by Mexican street food. The "charm" is in the fact that the food tastes really good.

I've been to Xoco twice, and I cannot say the food tasted "good." I suspect many people - the groupies - think the food should be outstanding, because it's a Bayless restaurant - and because it's so high priced for what's served (the items such as I've ordered) - so they go away raving about it. Some elements of what I've had - maybe just one part of the two orders - tasted good - but unless you go solely for the Labriola bread rolls I think some or even most of what's being sold (breakfast or afternoon tortas, in particular) fails the test of what "good food" is considered to be. The restaurant is an experiment of Bayless' for which the patrons are being asked to fund - and we're also funding - I suspect - his being able to make available some of the roasted meats and other items from Xoco to patrons of the other restaurants . . . without upcharging them for the added cost to provide those things. If old Clara Peller were alive today she might be found stainding out-front of Xoco yelling, "Where's the ..." (you fill-in the blank). I thought the pricing and portions abusive of the patrons the first two times . . . but if I return for something in the future and things remain as they are now, it should be considered self-abuse.

Bill,

Nice a guy as you are, I've discovered that our tastes in food are different. Perhaps some people are Bayless groupies (why, by the way, do you italicize that word every time you use it?), and others are Ohio House groupies. To each his own.

Kenny

Bill wrote:I've been to Xoco twice, and I cannot say the food tasted "good." I suspect many people - the groupies - think the food should be outstanding, because it's a Bayless restaurant - and because it's so high priced for what's served (the items such as I've ordered) - so they go away raving about it. Some elements of what I've had - maybe just one part of the two orders - tasted good - but unless you go solely for the Labriola bread rolls I think some or even most of what's being sold (breakfast or afternoon tortas, in particular) fails the test of what "good food" is considered to be. The restaurant is an experiment of Bayless' for which the patrons are being asked to fund - and we're also funding - I suspect - his being able to make available some of the roasted meats and other items from Xoco to patrons of the other restaurants . . . without upcharging them for the added cost to provide those things. If old Clara Peller were alive today she might be found stainding out-front of Xoco yelling, "Where's the ..." (you fill-in the blank). I thought the pricing and portions abusive of the patrons the first two times . . . but if I return for something in the future and things remain as they are now, it should be considered self-abuse.

TL;DR: 'I didn't care for the food, and have a beef with Rick Bayless, therefore Xoco is bad. Anyone who feels otherwise is a groupie who doesn't know what "good food" is.'

We got you the first two or three times, Bill.

Well, they can't all be Ohio House.

Tem opined:

I went today at about 2:15. Missed the lunch rush but still waited 15 mins or so for my cochinita pibil.

The good: the bread was very nice. crunchy on the outside with a nice crumb. The habanero sauce was fiery but in small quantities, it lent its fruity heat nicely to the sandwich. The pickled red onions were a good topping, but I can make pickled red onions.

The bad: the pork was dry and, I do agree, a bit skimpy of a portion. It took some digging to find the black beans as well.

The ugly: the $2 ($2.50 ?) for a pepsi in an 8oz plastic cup filled with 2/3 ice.

All in all, it was very good, but $18.50 for a quick lunch of pulled pork is a bit much. Perhaps the chicken would be a better value.

Tem, in the interest of full disclosure, what else did you have for lunch at Xoco? I have the current menu sitting right here on my dining table, and a quick check revealed that the Cochinita Pibil is an even $12.00. The soda pop prices aren't listed, but assuming that $2.50 was the correct price, your lunch totaled $14.50 exclusive of tax, not $18.50.

sundevilpeg wrote:Tem, in the interest of full disclosure, what else did you have for lunch at Xoco? I have the current menu sitting right here on my dining table, and a quick check revealed that the Cochinita Pibil is an even $12.00. The soda pop prices aren't listed, but assuming that $2.50 was the correct price, your lunch totaled $14.50 exclusive of tax, not $18.50.

I'm fairly certain the pibil was 12.50 as it was the most expensive item on menu. I may have been mistaken in the total but I know that I got less than $4 in change out of a $20.

Unless the prices were adjusted during the first couple of days of this week I'm assuming the $12 I paid for the cochinita pibil sandwich last Friday is the current charge. I found a photo of some of the menu online, one taken 9/10/09, and folks who haven't yet seen it might find it helpful in trying to understand some of the back-and-forth discussion:

Menu (not complete, but a major portion): http://www.flickr.com/photos/khim/3905938889/

I'm recalling the cochinita pibil sandwich was a late-addition to the menu because it didn't appear on the menu released by Bayless for Xoco in advance of its opening. Though I also recall pre-opening comments from him that he was excited about the wood-burning oven offering the possibility of cooking it (the pibil). Maybe it's non-appearance on the advance menu copy was an inadvertent omission - or maybe, too, I've overlooked it. The breakfast tortas were last-minute additions, too, according to comments of Bayless I’ve read on his blog, and if there have been recurring problems with those two sandwich items maybe earlier hunches to not include them were good instinct.

After looking at the menu once again (in the picture I’ve linked, above) I sense the caldos may be the strength of the current mid-day/evening menu, though . . . especially so if one of those rolls from Labriola are included.

Bill wrote:Unless the prices were adjusted during the first couple of days of this week I'm assuming the $12 I paid for the cochinita pibil sandwich last Friday is the current charge.

I was there for lunch on their first day and again today. The cochinita pibil torta is $12, and has been since they opened.

Bill wrote:I'm recalling the cochinita pibil sandwich was a late-addition to the menu because it didn't appear on the menu released by Bayless for Xoco in advance of its opening.

I believe the cochinita pibil torta had been suggested at least as far back as May, or else I was projecting when I posted this picture (http://twitpic.com/6okhe) in early June

kl1191 wrote:I believe the cochinita pibil torta had been suggested at least as far back as May, or else I was projecting when I posted this picture (http://twitpic.com/6okhe) in early June

I recall mention of the cochinita pibil, generally, some months prior to the opening of the restaurant (in reference to it being made available at either Topolo or Fontera), but not specific mention of it being included on/as a sandwich at Xoco. Click on the link that follows to have a look at the menu as published by Bayless less than 2-weeks prior to Xoco's opening (maybe I'm overlooking mention of the sandwich - in which case I'll make an appointment for an eye exam ): http://www.rickbayless.com/menu/layout?id=15&print=t).

Bayless has said in a posting to his blog (about Xoco's opening) that, as one might expect with a new restaurant's opening (utilizing an untried (by Bayless) concept), items (such as the breakfast torta) were added to the menu shortly before opening, after guests were invited to sample the menu, comment on what was consumed and offered suggestions. It wouldn't suprise me to learn that he offered some samples of the cochinita pibil meat preparation to guests in the process of showing-off/demonstrating the wood-fired oven and that there was a positive response and that he designed a sandwich on quick notice and added it to the line-up (though i suspect if it was a "last minute" addition to the menu he'd likely been considering it for some time but wanted to judge the reaction of others before making the final decision).

original menu linked earlier in the thread and again by Bill above wrote:wild arugula

<<shiver>>

The menu he sent to his sign maker (I'm assuming, since that's who it looks like it was meant for) around 8/27 did include the Pibil torta, and I think that was before media previews, so it wasn't strictly last minute.

gleam wrote:The menu he sent to his sign maker (I'm assuming, since that's who it looks like it was meant for) around 8/27 did include the Pibil torta, and I think that was before media previews, so it wasn't strictly last minute.

I probably overlooked the "sent to his sign maker" link/information you're referring to, Ed - and I'm not following your comment. I do know that there are multiple media links referring to the Bayless release of the menu I linked to in my earllier comments - one week prior to opening day (September 2nd), and the cochinita pibil torta is not included (hand me your eyeglasses, please! ).

I do know that Bayless did conduct menu testing with more than 100 people (not media-invited events), drawn from a pool which included employees of neighboring businesses, purveyor's and purveyor employees, "friends of Rick", etc. (something I've learned about by speaking with some of those participants) and that tweaking of the menu resulted from those encounters (as it wisely should have). My comment about "last minute" additions might better have been parsed by referencing it to mean "relatively," close to opening day.