If you look at the menu posted on the first page of this thread, you'll see the cochinita torta listed.

Judging by the non-food text on it, I'm guessing it was sent to the sign maker, and then he leaked it. But who knows.

Thanks for the tip - about how to find the document you're referencing. I don't know who produced that list or who it was intended for or when it was drawn-up, but it certainly doesn't jive with what Bayless released himself as the "menu" for Xoco, a week later. A week's difference is irrelevant to the point I've obviously unsuccessfully made thus far, though . . . that the particular sandwich was possibly a "late" addition to the menu (however someone may choose to define the term). I've, tonite, read back through the blog entries of Bayless and some of his staff and now have a clearer impression of what may be happening - that the cochinita pibil is likely being produced primarily for patrons of the Frontera restaurant, and what's left is being served, in skimpy portions (necessarily, because of the Frontera requirements) and at full-price (as if the sandwich was properly preparred, which I've contended it's not) to people ordering the sandwiches at Xoco. Thanks, Ed.

Bill wrote:the point I've obviously unsuccessfully made thus far, though . . . that skimpy portions (necessarily, because of the Frontera requirements) and at full-price (as if the sandwich was properly preparred, which I've contended it's not) ...

right, Bill. You definitely didn't make that point clear the first 700 times. What did you think of the concha?

I got your points, too. All of them. Over. And over. And over.

Gentlemen, back to topic please.

Thanks,
Gary for the moderators

I went here sometime in the past few days, maybe Friday for a late lunch? No line, so no we got our food after a few minutes. Everything was really tasty, but it is expensive. Like, borderline prohibitively so.

My favorite sandwich shop is Num Pang, right by Union Square. They do high-end Cambodian sandwiches. Think banh mi, just with anti-hype irony. These sandwiches are delicious, probably sustainably sourced, and a couple dollars cheaper across the board. I can't say Xoco's offerings reached the same level of deliciousness, and with the value proposition taken into account I prefer my NYC mainstay.

Seen from the other perspective, I can pay about as much as I would at Xoco and get the ribwich at Ssam Bar. There I get the luxury of being served delicious food while perched on uncomfortable seats by borderline condescending servers with cool tats. Xoco lacks this hipness.

The Aztec chocolate, at $3 or whatever, was excellent. Grainy, but in a good way. Like others have mentioned, I would come back just for this.

I tried three tortas, the pibil, the headcheese, and the ahogado. The pibil was pretty awesome. That spice profile took me right back to Mexico. The habanero salsa was addictive. I'd bathe in it if it didn't burn so bad. The headcheese was the one I felt was a bit light on meat. Or perhaps it was the goat cheese that just overwhelmed the meat. I wanted a bit more meaty, fatty funk. The ahogado is a good idea, but I found the broth a bit distracting. It makes the delicious bread disintegrate, and, well, no one wants that.

Also had the pork belly vermicelli caldo. The pork belly in this was pretty out of control delicious. Some people say they can't eat, like, six ounces of pork belly. I'm not one of those people. The broth and noodles were nice, but those bites with both avocado and belly, fat-on-fat deliciousness.

If you went for lunch Friday and encountered no line, you must have arrived after 3 p.m. and during one of the “windows” of time when business drops off for a short while – between meal times. I walked past the restaurant Friday at 1:30 p.m. and observed the longest line I'd seen thus far – about 30 people, with 10 or more persons standing outside waiting to get in. At 2:30 when I passed-by again there were about 20 people in line waiting (all on the inside).

Today, on the way back to the office after eating lunch, I passed by Xoco and a/the pastry chef working in the front window – preparing fruit tarts for the oven – caught my eye and as I watched her making the pastry I noticed there were just two people in line waiting to order (at 2:00 p.m.) and since I’d watched the tart-making (and didn’t have dessert at lunch) I took advantage of the short-line opportunity to go inside to get one of the tarts, and also a cup of hot chocolate (to warm a bit from the chilled air outside).

Blackberry and Apple Fruit Tart and Hot Chocolate



I ordered the tart ($3.75, though a tag on them read $4.50 if I’m recalling correctly) and the 8 oz. “Ultra” chocolate (chocolate shot/whole milk) ($3) but the restaurant was out of whole milk and I ordered, instead, the “Classic” (made with 2%). The clerk packed-up the chocolate and tart and I took them back to the office, a couple of blocks away.

The hot chocolate was without a doubt the best I’ve ever drank. Rich, thick, chocolaty – everything chocolate you find in Mexico (mostly) isn’t – at least not that I’ve found, and especially not in Oaxaca. My experience has been that good chocolate, like a good cup of coffee, is not easy to locate in Mexico – and the best (chocolate) I’ve had has been from small manufacturers – people who work the product in their homes or small workshops – in Patzcuaro, Michoacan (and some in San Cristobal de las Casas, Chiapas). The serving was skimpy, though – maybe 6 oz.

The blackberry and apple tart was indeed tart – made from “locally produced” fruit. Fresh, nicely-proportioned and full of fruit flavor, a light and mildly-flaky crust – a thoroughly enjoyable, feel good splurge dessert . . . one I could become accustomed to eating on a daily basis. The flavor of the blackberry overpowered the apple and I wondered, afterwards, if I'd read the sign correctly (maybe there were two different tarts offered, one of blackberry and one of apple).

I picked-up a menu, which appears below - for readers still unfamiliar with the restaurant.

Xoco Menu (additional items are included on the wall-board menu's posted in the restaurant)

Finally stopped in for lunch, coming at what I thought was the end of lunch rush (painfully mistaken). Travel took maybe a half hour to/from Fulton Market and somehow it took an hour in between for processing.

While I admire Bayless's attempt to create a casual street food set-up with counter service -- and yes, the food was tasty -- a combination of extreme popularity and a generally fucked layout/ordering system made grabbing lunch here a feat. Not to mention that the prices were a little steep for my tastes. I'm guessing they're anti-carry out to avoid having people taking up even more space in the order area, but it's not like the seating area is particularly inviting for dine-in. It would be better to have that area serve as a wait area and at least present the option of taking things to go.

The menu is different, but considering the time for waiting and the fact you can't take this stuff to go, the prices aren't so different that you could easily do dine-in at Frontera or Topo. Don't get me wrong, I loved the food and obviously it's still experiencing a popularity love fest with being brand new and all, just wish they could be more efficient with counter service.

I haven't been to Xoco yet, but I keep wanting to. I ride down Clark every day on my way to the office and I want to stop for breakfast (or at least chocolate...), but I almost never bring a bicycle lock with me. I really do wish they (or *anyone* on the downtown-to-Andersonville corridor) had a walk-up window.

-Dan

dansch wrote:I haven't been to Xoco yet, but I keep wanting to. I ride down Clark every day on my way to the office and I want to stop for breakfast (or at least chocolate...), but I almost never bring a bicycle lock with me. I really do wish they (or *anyone* on the downtown-to-Andersonville corridor) had a walk-up window.

I am kind of embarrassed that I know this, but I found myself in the rare position of being without a bike lock last week on a quick morning visit for an Authentic. It would help if Xoco had a working door on Clark in terms of being close to the register, but staff were very friendly when I came in with my bike via the Illinois door (the double glass doors are just a pain for a clutz like me).* I think I'm on my way to establishing a pre-bike-to-work-Xoco-hot chocolate routine, so a possibility that has crossed my mind is establishing hand signals with the guy who makes pastry in the window on Clark. He seems very friendly. I bet you could get him to help with hot chocolate sidewalk service.

*Xoco staff have made also other bike-friendly accommodations for me on different occasions, like packing up mass pastry for me to carry in panniers.

I've always been a fan of Rick Bayless, TV host, cookbook writer and reality show judge, but this was the first time I'd actually eaten in one of his restaurants. I went at lunch with some co-workers this past Tuesday after a failed Monday venture which found the establishment closed (phone first!). I had the Pepito Torta which was decent, particularly the bread, but which I found hard to justify spending $12.00 for, especially considering its size. The meat was seasoned adequately, I wasn't particularly impressed with the sauce. My co-workers both had salads, one had the Xoco and the other had the House. The chicken in the Xoco Salad looked and tasted like duck to her, which was a turn-off. The one who ordered the House also ordered the Cilantro Crema to go with it and I thought that it was delicious. We split an order of chips and Guacamole; the Guac portion was pretty small and uninspired for $4.00, but the chips were nice. The highlight of the meal for me was the Ultra Hot Chocolate, which was easily the best Chocolate I've ever had. We got there at a good time, around 11:35 am, just before the lunch rush and there were plenty of seats available until around 11:45 am. There was almost no line when we got there, easily found a table and received our food in about five minutes. I'd definitely like to try the Cochinita Pibil next time, and we were all disappointed that the soups aren't served until after 3:00 pm.


On a side note, my co-worker had ordered some Chamomille tea, which never came, and when she inquired about it, she realized she was talking to the Sous Chef from the Top Chef Masters finale who overcooked his seafood. She's still star struck...

I've now had three breakfasts from Xoco, so I've gotten some variety and have a sense of the place. Let's go from worst to first. The churro I had was greasy and unpalatable. It was so bad that I only ate two bites. To be fair, a co-worker had picked up three because we had talked about getting churros from Xoco, and I arrived at work an hour later than she did. She was unimpressed with the fresh version, saying that Costco had better churros. Timing is a big factor with food cooked in grease though. Even fries from Chicken Shack are no good an hour later. The savory bread pudding with ham, poblano, and cheese was very good. I liked the addition of a little queso fresco and cilantro on top. It was essentially a Mexican quiche. This morning I had the board special egg chorizo with avocado and tomatillos. It was good at first, and really good with the addition of some hot sauce. The bread was crunchy and pressed. I liked the crunchiness, but I would have preferred a bolillo, and I also thought $7 was a lot for what it was. There was a problem in how it was served. It came in a basket. When you have a sandwich that spills out when you eat it, you want a plate so you can eat the remainders more easily with your fork. Finally, the one truly stand-out item for me so far has been the lime muffin. Two bucks seems a lot for a small muffin, but I loved the lime taste and hint of spice. There was something about the lime taste that took me far away from Clark street although part of me feels that going to a place like Xoco and finding the lime muffin to be the best item is sort of like Family Guy’s single-malt drinking Brian discovering he like mojitos.

In terms of atmosphere, this is a wonderful place to be at 8:30 on a Friday morning. There’s no line and lots of open seating. It’s a nice place to be reading a book while wondering if you really want to go to work.

Phil Vittel's review of Xoco appears in today's edition of the Chicago Tribune, and you can read what he wrote when you click on this link: http://tinyurl.com/ybppmee

Just had my first lunch torta at Xoco, and any lingering lukewarm feelings I might have had about this place are gone—I’ve been won over. Yes, the line was to the door at 11:10. Yes, they stopped it for 15 minutes to let some seats clear out before taking more orders just when it seemed to be moving along. On a more positive note, yes Bayless was in the building, tasting sauces, talking to staff, lining up the drink dispensers.

The Ahogada torta I had—carnitas with pickled onions in a spicy tomato broth—was outstanding. It was a mess to eat with all the dipping in the broth, but it was worth the wait and the mess. I’ll have a hard time trying other tortas at future visits because I want this sandwich again and again.

One note to patrons by the way: at a place like this, you pay for the food not the table. I don’t care if it is your lunch hour and you want to be somewhat leisurely and you feel like you’re owed the sitting time because you had to wait: after you’ve finished—leave. (This is my feeling and is not expressed anywhere in the restaurant. I wouldn’t object if they did say this though.)

I went to Xoco for the first time last week and was planning to have the carnitas torta, but at the last minute I chose the headcheese and tongue torta, as I had tasted tongue multiple times but never had the opportunity to try headcheese. I really, really wanted to like the sandwich, since the bread was fantastic and the crema/spicy vegetables were good, but the problem was there was only a single layer of 1-2 millimeter-thick meat, and the other flavors completely overpowered it.

The only time I could taste the meat was when I pulled a sliver out of the sandwich and tasted it on its own. I sent an email voicing my displeasure to the address on Rick's website a week ago and have received no response.

I have always been satisfied with my experiences at Frontera Grill and Frontera Fresca, but I was disappointed with my experience at Xoco and disappointed that I haven't received a reply to my email.

I really, really wanted to like the sandwich, since the bread was fantastic and the crema/spicy vegetables were good, but the problem was there was only a single layer of 1-2 millimeter-thick meat, and the other flavors completely overpowered it.

Skimpy portions has been a consistent complaint about what Bayless is doing with sandwiches at Xoco, contrasted with suggestions that the bread rolls he's using may be the best thing in the basket. If Labriola opened a bakery in one of the neighboring storefronts Xoco's sales would probably drop precipitously.

I sent an email voicing my displeasure to the address on Rick's website a week ago and have received no response.

I suspect Bayless is not responding to critical - suggestive - feedback and that his "In Box" is being carefully screened/filtered so that he hears/reads only the most positive comments. I sent an email on opening day (which has still not been acknowledged or responded to) and I know of other people who've said they sent critical/suggestive messages which have not been responded to, either.

After reading the Vittel review of Xoco (which I linked in earlier comments) I was left with the sense that the restaurant knew he was coming, and, therefore, handled that time-block differently than others. One operational area of the business that Vittel mentioned - about how people are not permitted to order if seating is unavailable, about a room captain (or other similar position) overseeing the seating, food delivery, etc. - are things I did not witness during my three visits. Maybe there's been a very recent operational change - or maybe Vittel was misinformed, or treated differently (or maybe I've misread (or have misunderstood) the review commentary).

I suspect Bayless is not responding to critical - suggestive - feedback and that his "In Box" is being carefully screened/filtered

You really have it out for this place huh?

Bill wrote:After reading the Vittel review of Xoco (which I linked in earlier comments) I was left with the sense that the restaurant knew he was coming, and, therefore, handled that time-block differently than others. One operational area of the business that Vittel mentioned - about how people are not permitted to order if seating is unavailable, about a room captain (or other similar position) overseeing the seating, food delivery, etc. - are things I did not witness during my three visits. Maybe there's been a very recent operational change - or maybe Vittel was misinformed, or treated differently (or maybe I've misread (or have misunderstood) the review commentary).

On the first day, there was no one regulating the line/seating, as far as I could tell, despite the fact that Bayless had been quoted before they opened saying that people would not be allowed to order until there was a seat for them. (In fact, I believe he originally stated that people would be seated by a host when they arrived, and only then allowed up to order, but this obviously never came to be.) I was there before the lunch rush really started in earnest, so I can't be sure the room captain didn't show up at some point.

During my second and subsequent visits, there certainly was someone standing near the registers handing out order numbers as seating became available, monitoring the available seats and overseeing the food runners. You were not allowed to order until this person had given you a number (and thus, there was a seat for you).

I don't believe your assumption that the restaurant knew of Vittel's visit or that it operated in any way out of the ordinary during his visit is justified.

KSeecs wrote:

I suspect Bayless is not responding to critical - suggestive - feedback and that his "In Box" is being carefully screened/filtered

You really have it out for this place huh?

There's plenty to plausibly deny in the many negative assumptions made above, but that has been my observation as well.

kl1191 wrote:During my second and subsequent visits, there certainly was someone standing near the registers handing out order numbers as seating became available, monitoring the available seats and overseeing the food runners. You were not allowed to order until this person had given you a number (and thus, there was a seat for you).

My most recent "dine-in" visit was three weeks ago (the last visit was a take-out of pastry/chocolate), at dinner time (I posted about it earlier in the discussion) and though the cashier (not someone else standing near the cash register(s)) was handing-out numbered identification cards after my orders were placed (so the food-runners could get orders to people waiting, I've assumed) people were left to their own skills to secure seating - no staff person was assisting (other than the runners delivering food, 15-20 minutes after orders were placed) - and some few people were eating standing up (not at one of the wall-mounted counters). The number of identification cards seem to be greater than the number of seating spots available in the restaurant. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that another change has been made to the restaurant's operations, adjusting to the developing ebb and flow of the customers. But I do wonder if Vittel made his comments based on information provided by Xoco management, or as the result of witnessing these things himself.

Just had my first lunch torta at Xoco, and any lingering lukewarm feelings I might have had about this place are gone—I’ve been won over. Yes, the line was to the door at 11:10. Yes, they stopped it for 15 minutes to let some seats clear out before taking more orders just when it seemed to be moving along.

The above quote is from CCCB's recent posting about Xoco, which I hadn't focused on earlier. The comment about stopping the line "to let some seats clear out before taking more orders" does add further confirmation to the change in operational procedures I questioned. People planning to visit Xoco during the busiest parts of the day might want to adjust their arrival times - or find themselves further delayed (if they're on a "hour or less" meal break).

Other then expressing regret that you were dissatisfied with the portion size (meat ratio) what else could he say? I imagine adjustment's can be made if the majority objects to the portion size. But a quick google of Xoco will show that is not the case. I am not suggesting Bayless ignore your email/complaint as that is not wise business. But other then addressing your complaint what else could he do? I'm sure there are those who wish Thomas Keller would double the size of his Oysters and Pearls dish but I doubt it will happen.

I was left with the sense that the restaurant knew he was coming, and, therefore, handled that time-block differently than others.

Please excuse my lighthearted humor but how does one do that? Other then having a few goon's outside pulling people out of line. No sandwich for you, Phil is on his way.

There was someone stopping people from ordering until spaces had opened up to eat. She acted as a de facto hostess controlling the line and taking you to a place to sit once you had ordered. So it would appear to me that they're trying to deal with the restaurant's popularity in a sensible fashion.

If an company publishes an email address they should respond, no doubt about it. I would suggest following up in person.

robert40 wrote:Other then expressing regret that you were dissatisfied with the portion size (meat ratio) what else could he say?

Any business worth its salt will acknowledge feedback--good or bad--from a customer, even if it is just an autoreply. Many businesses will even offer a voucher for your next meal to give them the opportunity to get things right. For example, I have had a couple negative experiences with Lettuce restaurants, and they mailed me between $25 and $50 in gift cards.

In my original post, I neglected to mention that I complained to a supervisor upon leaving, and he told me that the tongue/headcheese was one of the sandwiches they hadn't perfected yet, and he gave me a complimentary churro. This was a marginal effort to make me whole, but it irritated me that they tried to correct a mediocre $11 sandwich with a $1.50 churro. If the supervisor himself thought the sandwich was mediocre and felt compelled to share that with me, he should have comped me another sandwich.

I realize that Rick and his restaurants sit high atop the mountain and have no problem drawing customers, but no business is invincible if it provides poor value.

mrrockmusic wrote:

robert40 wrote:Other then expressing regret that you were dissatisfied with the portion size (meat ratio) what else could he say?

Any business worth its salt will acknowledge feedback--good or bad--from a customer, even if it is just an autoreply. Many businesses will even offer a voucher for your next meal to give them the opportunity to get things right. For example, I have had a couple negative experiences with Lettuce restaurants, and they mailed me between $25 and $50 in gift cards.

In my original post, I neglected to mention that I complained to a supervisor upon leaving, and he told me that the tongue/headcheese was one of the sandwiches they hadn't perfected yet, and he gave me a complimentary churro. This was a marginal effort to make me whole, but it irritated me that they tried to correct a mediocre $11 sandwich with a $1.50 churro. If the supervisor himself thought the sandwich was mediocre and felt compelled to share that with me, he should have comped me another sandwich.

I realize that Rick and his restaurants sit high atop the mountain and have no problem drawing customers, but no business is invincible if it provides poor value.

I completely agree with you that feedback should be acknowledged as I mentioned upthread. But I think restaurateurs are limited in what they can do when faced with nothing more then a persons subjective taste. Offer a voucher for another sandwich when the customer did not care for the first one? If there is a flaw in the execution and preparation of a product that is one thing. Subjective taste is another. Yes, having managed many restaurants myself I would have likely offered you another sandwich for the sake of good business sense. And without a doubt it was the best coarse the manager should have taken after having admitted the product was mediocre. In a nutshell I think I am only saying there is a wide difference between saying the wine is corked and saying the wine is fine but not my preference.

For the record after having read many of Rick Bayless's tweets lately. I may have never seen another chef who addresses so many questions from customers. It will be interesting to see if he or staff responds to your email.

I went to Xoco on Saturday, September 19th from between 3-4 PM and there was absolutely a man monitoring the line and handing out numbers when there was a place for you to sit, and stopping the line from ordering when there weren't enough seats. I am certain of the date and time as we stopped there before the White Sox game and it is the only time I've been to Xoco. This is nothing new.

I loved the short rib sandwich and the cuban, personally.

Writer Christoper Borrelli penned an well-written, insightful and lenghthy feature article for yesterday's Sunday Chicago Tribune about Bayless, Xoco and the Frontera empire. The article adds some background to what's been happening with Xoco (and maybe why). Click on the link that follows to read the Borelli feature: http://tinyurl.com/yjcnt4o

Bill wrote:Writer Christoper Borrelli penned an well-written, insightful and lenghthy feature article for yesterday's Sunday Chicago Tribune about Bayless, Xoco and the Frontera empire. The article adds some background to what's been happening with Xoco (and maybe why). Click on the link that follows to read the Borelli feature: http://tinyurl.com/yjcnt4o

To save most LTHers a lot of time, this article is petulant (author didn't get full access he expected), retributive (author projects frustration onto totally normal professional kitchen processes), invasive (broadcasing irrelevant Bayless family details), inaccurate (cookbooks and PBS hosting predated Frontera), misleading (Xoco continues to serve snacks and tortas after caldos come online), laggy (Xoco website definitively states takeout is coming soon), and poorly constructed.

It's also riveting, picaresque, and replete with schadenfreude. Ah, journalism. Seriously, people, don't make me Photoshop a closeup of Rick with a single citrus-scented tear rolling down his sallow vertical cheek.

Great timing for that article for me, as my birthday is in a couple of days and my brother gave me a gift certificate for Frontera Grill. We can't go on my birthday, because I have to go out of town tomorrow for a funeral , but we will be going to Frontera sometime soon. I figure a weeknight, early, 5:30ish shouldn't be too hard to get in. Printed out the menus and can hardly wait for the big night!

p.s., a question or two as a Bayless fan: I have a few cookbooks signed by authors, and would like to ask him to sign one of his for me if I have a chance. What one cookbook of his would you recommend as the one for someone who has no other books and no experience with Mexican cooking? Second question, any advice on how to ask for him to sign it? I realize he might not be there the night we are (though it sounds like he's there most of the time), and more to the point, I realize (as the Tribune article underscores) that's he's just swamped lately, what with opening Xoco and all the press and fan attention. I could ask if I could leave a cookbook there for him to sign when it's convenient and come back to pick it up another day. That's if he even does sign books. Any suggestions?