Bruno's Comments in XOCO Review

Anybody have an opinion on these quotes from Pat Bruno's review today of XOCO? I'll just throw them out there.

"Assembly lines were made for cars, not food, especially food -- street food or not -- of this caliber. But as it stands right now XOCO is an assembly line (one day at 11:15, the line was out the door as frantic foodies kept flowing in)."

and

"On the other hand, it is possible that once that horde of Bayless followers have retreated back to their sofa to watch the Food Channel, sense and civility will reign, and I just might go back to have another torta or two."

What the hell are line cooks doing in all fine restaurants if not some function of an assembly line?

Hell, what is mise en place other than a facet of an assembly line mentality?

Odd thing for him to say

ab wrote:What the hell are line cooks doing in all fine restaurants if not some function of an assembly line?

Hell, what is mise en place other than a facet of an assembly line mentality?

Odd thing for him to say

Agreed. One of the things I learned reading Eric Ripert's "On the Line" is that the vast majority of cooks at Le Bernardin are responsible for no more than 2 dishes a night, and the tick-tock of each dish being prepared makes it clear just how much of a factory it is.

Bruno is an idiot.

Loco for XOCO by Bruno

From the OP's post, it sounds like Bruno's referring to the line of customers as the assembly line, not the cooks. Is that right? It would certainly be consistent with the amount of sense he usually makes.

ab wrote:What the hell are line cooks doing in all fine restaurants if not some function of an assembly line?

Hell, what is mise en place other than a facet of an assembly line mentality?

Odd thing for him to say

I could not agree more! All restaurants in a sense are an assembly line. Some just do it with more care and passion then others.
It appears Mr Bruno has a better idea for managing professional kitchens then Escoffier did. I certainly would be interested in knowing what it is.

Why is everyone attacking a strawman, when what the man actually did say is even more ridiiclous?

Except for the groupies, who I suspect would gladly eat the garbage out of Xoco's alley dumpster . . . and willingly pay a high price for the privilege of doing so (all the while not understanding what they were eating, or why - but it would be "Rick's garbage") . . . I suspect most people with any self respect, or those who've eaten Mexican food before (or any restaurant food for that matter) . . . will find some or most of what Xoco is serving (and what Bayless is charging for it) a rip-off. Bait and switch. You'd probably find the same people trolling the internet in glorious abandon to praise Xoco who'd be satisfied if when biting into a premium-priced sausage at Hot Doug's only to find that the only meat on the sandwich was a cocktail weiner sized portion which was overwhelmed by the bun, or who wouldn't flinch seeing a White Castle-sized meat patty on one of the similarly premium priced burgers they'd get at Kuma's Corner (both of which examples do not occur - nor would such abuse be tolerated). If this wasn't a Bayless restaurant - and if the groupies weren't flapping their feathers in their glorious abandon - it's likely Xoco would be run out of town, or out of business - unless it stopped what appears to be cheating the people on some of the menu items. Bruno's comments seem consistent with some or many of the observations posted elsewhere on LTH, and at other places.

Edited to provide this link to the other ongoing discussion of Xoco, since pre-opening days, so that people unfamiliar with it can follow the "Bruno" thread in context:

http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=25008

Agreed with Kenny, the parenthetical statement makes it clear he's talking about the line of customers, but I'm still not really sure what his point is.

Bill: Wow.

Bill wrote: Bruno's comments seem consistent with some or many of the observations posted elsewhere on LTH, ...

That's true, he does use a lot of italics.

vervante wrote:
"On the other hand, it is possible that once that horde of Bayless followers have retreated back to their sofa to watch the Food Channel, sense and civility will reign, and I just might go back to have another torta or two."

based on the foodie hype surrounding xoco this is what I was thinking would be my strategy. I like Rick Bayless, and would like to try xoco, but not right now.

Bruno wrote:On the other hand, it is possible that once that horde of Bayless followers have retreated back to their sofa to watch the Food Channel

He does know that Bayless is primarily on PBS, not the Food Channel, right?

Bill wrote:Except for the groupies, who I suspect would gladly eat the garbage out of Xoco's alley dumpster . . . and willingly pay a high price for the privilege of doing so (all the while not understanding what they were eating, or why - but it would be "Rick's garbage") . . . I suspect most people with any self respect, or those who've eaten Mexican food before (or any restaurant food for that matter) . . . will find some or most of what Xoco is serving (and what Bayless is charging for it) a rip-off. Bait and switch. You'd probably find the same people trolling the internet in glorious abandon to praise Xoco who'd be satisfied if when biting into a premium-priced sausage at Hot Doug's only to find that the only meat on the sandwich was a cocktail weiner sized portion which was overwhelmed by the bun, or who wouldn't flinch seeing a White Castle-sized meat patty on one of the similarly premium priced burgers they'd get at Kuma's Corner (both of which examples do not occur - nor would such abuse be tolerated). If this wasn't a Bayless restaurant - and if the groupies weren't flapping their feathers in their glorious abandon - it's likely Xoco would be run out of town, or out of business - unless it stopped what appears to be cheating the people on some of the menu items. Bruno's comments seem consistent with some or many of the observations posted elsewhere on LTH, and at other places.

Edited to provide this link to the other ongoing discussion of Xoco, since pre-opening days, so that people unfamiliar with it can follow the "Bruno" thread in context:

http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=25008

Hmmm...Bill=Pat Bruno?

It took Bill 40 minutes to post in this thread. I took the +/- under 15. Aargh!

I keep reading about these wonderful Bayless groupers, but every time I try to order one they must be out because they look at me like I'm crazy.

geno55 wrote:Agreed with Kenny, the parenthetical statement makes it clear he's talking about the line of customers, but I'm still not really sure what his point is.

I think he means to say that customers have to go through this: "Wait in line, order your food, pay, get a number, find a seat, wait for the food to come." That's probably where the assembly line comment comes from.

But yeah, that was awkward. Like reading a Dan Brown novel.

I didn't want to color the responses going in, but I think there's something to be read into these.

Never a good writer, the first quote is so convoluted, that most meaning is lost. Typical Bruno. My pique was with the use of the word "foodies." Shall we leave all the new and good experiences to Bruno? Or at least until he has had his fill? I believe this is his subliminally dripping disdain for people like LTHers or Chowhounders who do a better and more comprehensive job of describing a restaurant experience than he ever has. Clinging stubbornly to the old newspaper model where there can be only one critic: him.

The second quote seems the height of condescension and snobbery towards people he doesn't believe measure up to his...whatever. These words speak volumes and if I was the editor of the Sun-Times, I would turn this freelancer loose and find another reviewer.

Bayless has put together the full package of being a celebrity chef, but he has the bones to back it up. People in this town are aware of it. When Bayless cooks, it's worth paying attention to. Although XOCO appears to be a bit of a money grab, it's a lot more important than the opening of yet another Chipotle Grill.

As Roger Ebert is another in this town who demands attention, Bruno is 180 degrees away. I don't believe he garners much sway in matters culinary.

After conversation with one Bruno subject, the take I get is that he is considered nearly a nuisance in the hospitality industry and a lot of people know who he is by sight. How much you want to bet Bayless does?

vervante wrote:Bayless has put together the full package of being a celebrity chef, but he has the bones to back it up. People in this town are aware of it. When Bayless cooks, it's worth paying attention to. Although XOCO appears to be a bit of a money grab, it's a lot more important than the opening of yet another Chipotle Grill.

vervante, what did you think of the food, service, facilities, pricing structure, etc. the time(s) when you visited Xoco?

Bill --

Did Rick Bayless violate your dog or something?

Kidding aside, you seem to have a fairly developed sense of animosity towards Bayless that appears, to a neutral observer like me, to border on the irrational. So what motivates it? I surmise from your other posts around here that you eat Mexican fairly regularly and have traveled in Mexico rather extensively. Is it that what Bayless is offering is inauthentic in your eyes? Is it that there are a number of places pumping out better fare than his at a fraction of the price? Does he just annoy you? Is it not Bayless himself but the Bayless empire and the fact that foodies and tourists alike generally flock to his places in a "sheeple" manner? All of the above? Inquiring minds want to know.

(And I am asking sincerely, not trying to stir the pot. Obviously, feel free not to answer, though.)

Bill,
I haven't been there. Long before Bruno's review, I had gathered from various boards and other reviews, comments and video that the place was pretty small. Anticipating the high level of interest, I figured it would be crowded. I'm not real big on standing in line for much of anything. I'll wait.

My main point with the topic was Bruno's peevishness that a lot of people would be interested in the place and his condescending attitude towards some of the very people who read him: people who love food.

If you've noticed, there are sectors of the media who have already cast aspersions upon sites like LTH and the people who contribute to them. They blew it by not starting their own forums or blogs and now they complain. They're trying to make the word "foodie" a dirty word, with assignment to those who use the internet to get relevant restaurant information. I've seen such articles. Bruno wants the gig all to himself. Maybe I'm reading too much into it... He's also a pizza snob.

Fine, he didn't like the crowds and some other aspects of XOCO. I can almost see him standing in line muttering "peasants!" But he shouldn't resort, basically, to calling people names.

As someone who hasn't yet been to Xoco but wants to go, a question:

Is the wait worth it?

Bruno seems to basically say 'no.'

What do those who've been there say?

DutchMuse wrote:As someone who hasn't yet been to Xoco but wants to go, a question:

Is the wait worth it?

Bruno seems to basically say 'no.'

What do those who've been there say?

I liked the food a lot (I just felt it was overpriced), but I wouldn't wait more than 5 minutes in line for it.

If you don't know what Bill is going to say, then you're just not paying attention.

DutchMuse wrote:As someone who hasn't yet been to Xoco but wants to go, a question:

Is the wait worth it?

Bruno seems to basically say 'no.'

What do those who've been there say?

Hey there DM, plenty of LTHer reviews (and some damn fine photography) can be found in this thread.

DutchMuse wrote:As someone who hasn't yet been to Xoco but wants to go, a question:

Is the wait worth it?

Bruno seems to basically say 'no.'

What do those who've been there say?

If you can somehow get there at 3-4 PM during the week there's little to no wait.

Matt wrote:Bill … Kidding aside, you seem to have a fairly developed sense of animosity towards Bayless that appears, to a neutral observer like me, to border on the irrational. So what motivates it?

Matt, thanks for your question – which I’ll respond to over the weekend, probably in the main Xoco thread (into which I think this one would be best be merged (for the sake of continuity/preserving context).

vervante wrote:Bill … I haven't been there.

Thanks for admitting that, because there are others who are criticizing comments of some of us who have eaten there, multiple times, when they’ve never been a customer and don’t know what they’re talking about.

vervante wrote:Long before Bruno's review, I had gathered from various boards and other reviews, comments and video that the place was pretty small. Anticipating the high level of interest, I figured it would be crowded.

Instead of taking the corner spot on that block, it probably would have been better for the enterprise if vacant spaces to the south were the location – but a corner spot is a good spot visually and the desire for that visibility probably trumped practicality. Since the Xoco concept was hatched Bayless has generated more publicity than anticipated which has added to the groupie infestation overwhelming the restaurant. On space issues the Bayless team tossed the dice and, to some extent, lost the roll – because of unexpected build-out problems due to the age/condition of that corner space. But, I’m left with the impression – even with the added number of groupies – space planners seriously underestimated current and future space needs (which to many businesspersons might be seen as both good and bad news).

vervante wrote:My main point with the topic was Bruno's peevishness that a lot of people would be interested in the place and his condescending attitude towards some of the very people who read him: people who love food.

I’d probably wager against, if I were a wagering person, the belief that “people who love food” make up the bulk of Xoco customers (if that's what you're suggesting in yoiur remark). I’m back and forth in front of the restaurant Monday through Friday and always stop to look-in, watch the pastry chef or churro guy – both of whom work in the window area – and I’ve spoken with and overheard people waiting to go in, as well as listened to and spoken with people on the inside when I’ve been a customer, and most have been clueless. Groupies, so many of them. People more interested in hoping to see Rick than anything else. Maybe, like me, you’d be disappointed to hear some of these people talk about Mexican food – or what they think food – “street food” – is, typically, in Mexico (or just what it is they should be getting for the high prices being charged for many of the Xoco menu items). I think Bruno hit the nail on the head – or was pretty damn close.

vervante wrote:If you've noticed, there are sectors of the media who have already cast aspersions upon sites like LTH and the people who contribute to them. They blew it by not starting their own forums or blogs and now they complain. They're trying to make the word "foodie" a dirty word, with assignment to those who use the internet to get relevant restaurant information. I've seen such articles. Bruno wants the gig all to himself. Maybe I'm reading too much into it... He's also a pizza snob.

I don’t regularly read Bruno’s reviews or other articles. I’m still – for now – a reader of the Tribune. So I don’t know his history or rep – but he said he didn’t write his review/story after just one or two visits and absent a good challenge to his statement I believe him – and view his opinions on his experiences at Xoco no less valid than anybody else who’s been there . . . and, certainly, believe they’re more valid than people who’ve never visited the restaurant but yet are attacking his opinions.

I continue to be humbled by many of the bright folks around here who are truly serious “foodies” “chowhounds” or whatever descriptive term you’d apply to them. I’m on the far outer edge of such folks. I haven’t seen the type of criticism of “foodies” or blogs/forums such as LTH from food critics, though. I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of what you’re saying, but I haven’t seen the same thing. I have read articles quoting Chef’s/restaurant owners in Chicago, and other cities, who’ve expressed displeasure with those of us who take photos of what we’re eating and then upload them to the web and post reviews – and I think I understand their objections (but don’t always agree). Some of the problems at Xoco have been brought-on by media and blog attention Bayless initiated himself, and also by forums such as LTH and the other food-centric blogs/websites. A newly-opened restaurant had traditionally – pre-blogs/forums – had a period of months to gear-up and work-through “bugs” before experiencing heavy customer interest. But that’s all changed since forums such as LTH have come into existence - it's a seriously difficult challenge for some restaurant operations. I recall clearly what happened to Smoque when it opened – with such advance and right-after-opening attention here and elsewhere – and the lines stretched out the door from day one and, during the initial post-opening period the restaurant regularly ran out of product to sell (maybe not all product, but some of it).

About food critics wanting to protect their turf: what’s so surprising about that? Each of us wants to protect our turf, no matter our jobs. I wouldn’t fault Bruno or the other critics for throwing and elbow now and again. Whether or not he’s a “pizza snob” or not, I have no knowledge of it. We have writers, some of whom mask their identities and others who are open and above-board, who post here on LTH, harvest information here, repackage it and sell it for profit (I believe that happens, but don’t have “proof” of it) and some or all have food preferences – Mexican being a huge favorite, IndoPak food also. But these writers write about more and aren’t attacked for preferring one over another.

In closing: if what Xoco serves generally interests you – food preparation “inspired” by visits Bayless has made to Mexico (as contrasted with “street food” you might commonly see sold on the street or at street-side restaurants in much of Mexico) then either wait several months more for the restaurant’s operation to stabilize, or pick a non-peak time to visit and judge for yourself (just before lunch, or just before dinner).

Thanks.

Matt,

I've re-read your comments and also my own and those of others in this particular thread and all of the postings in the "other" Xoco discussion several times over the weekend with the intent of responding point-by-point to what you've said. And I've also given thought to my comments defending Rick Bayless and his restaurants against troll-like attacks that were posted by someone here on LTH, comments of mine which, I'm recalling, were removed by the moderators (during the period leading-up to the opening of Xoco). After all of this review I realized that my best responses have already been given and if you still wonder why I've responded in these discussions as I have and you haven't read back through the associated material as I have this weekend - I suggest you do that. Each of us interpret and process things through our own particular lenses and filtering system and I don't think I can say what I've already said, here and now, better than I've said it before.

Thanks.

Bill

Bill wrote:Matt,

I've re-read your comments and also my own and those of others in this particular thread and all of the postings in the "other" Xoco discussion several times over the weekend with the intent of responding point-by-point to what you've said. And I've also given thought to my comments defending Rick Bayless and his restaurants against troll-like attacks that were posted by someone here on LTH, comments of mine which, I'm recalling, were removed by the moderators (during the period leading-up to the opening of Xoco). After all of this review I realized that my best responses have already been given and if you still wonder why I've responded in these discussions as I have and you haven't read back through the associated material as I have this weekend - I suggest you do that. Each of us interpret and process things through our own particular lenses and filtering system and I don't think I can say what I've already said, here and now, better than I've said it before.

Thanks.

Bill

Bill -- fair enough. I appreciate that there is a "body of work" out there illuminating your views, albeit in more of a piecemeal manner; I was just curious whether there was a more "unified theory of Rick," so to speak, that you held. As noted before, I do not think you owe anyone any further explanation and it's your prerogative not to elaborate on, or further qualify, that which you have already stated elsewhere on board (most of which I am sure I have read). I do recall your comments about Bayless' labor practices in the removed materials regarding the picketing and understand you have not been wholly negative.

Matt wrote:I was just curious whether there was a more "unified theory of Rick," so to speak, that you held.

Matt,

With the exception of what I've seen and experienced at Xoco, my "unified theory of Rick" is I think his efforts to broaden the acceptance of Mexican food in the USA (amongst non-Mexicans) is unrivaled in its success. I admire his hard work within the restaurant owner/chef group to support small producers of high-quality produce and meat products. And I acknowledge his ability to hire, retain and treat-well the people in his organization. I'm a fan. The role Bayless has played in his organization, though, is as pitch-man, the face of the organization and even though he hangs around the restaurant and tests the pots on the stove frequently, each year he becomes more detached from the day-to-day functions of a restaurant. He, too, I believe, has begun to more often than not believe everything his publicists write and say about him and his restaurants - and some of those things are not of the real world. Being a fan (which includes attending his $150/plate foundation dinner) and holding him and the organization in high regard compels me to speak-out when I think he's doing something wrong - as I view the situation - and that's what I think I've done regarding Xoco.

Thanks.

Bill