What do you love/hate about your kitchen?

I'm thinking about kitchens. The Platonic ideal of kitchens, that is. And now, in hopeful anticipation of buying a new (to us) home, I decided to ask LTHers for help. This has been a subject on my mind for a long, long time and even though the house offer may or may not get made soon, I think I should begin to ask for some input.

One of the homes we looked at this weekend would require a total kitchen gut and redo. Which is fine with me. My question is this: what things—both little and big—do you love or hate about your kitchen? What can’t you do without? What little innovation, doohickey, space/time saver, is a godsend? What is so horrible and terrible that you wish you could just wake up one morning and it would be gone?

It might be as simple as the kind of hook you use to hang things or a kind of faucet or shelf. Or it might be as "big" as the stuff that’s on your floor or your countertops or the kind of lighting. Anything. Well, okay. Almost anything: the one thing I am NOT looking for is a discussion about appliances (of any size or kind).

So, please: share your winners and losers, your great ideas, too. I’m all ears.

You have the thanks of a grateful pair of eaters.

I like having (2) lazy susans on opposite ends of where my stove/oven is. I like the increased storage, and quick access they provide.

Also multiple electrical outlets( I think I have 6 @ around my counters just for small appliances) is a great thing, many times I have the rice cooker, food processor, deep fryer and the blender all plugged in @ different locations, not having to worry about sharing, or unplugging one or the other.

High points:
Two dishwashers - rarely put anything away
Griddle built into the cooktop. Good for a low, temperature-controlled simmer. For that matter, the ultra-low burners. And the high output of those same burners. Heck, the whole Thermadore cooktop.
Quartz countertops -- nearly indestructable

Low points:
An island for the cooktop, plus windows over the sink immediately behind means not enough pantry items are in easy reach of cooking
Until the countertop was installed, we didn't realize that the sink was too close to the wall to install the disposal in the "sink" side instead of the "drain" side -- kind of useless as it is, it gets turned on maybe three times a year because of that. We might have chosen a different sink in that case.
Stainless steel cooktop, and range hood over the island: it never looks clean

Jim's suggestion of multiple outlets is spot on. We had this done when we moved into this house 10 years ago and now I wish we had a few more. Good under cabinet lighting would be another on my wish list.

Yeah, the more electrical outlets the better. Not least because everybody has things that have to be recharged and the kitchen (at least the parts that are not next to the sink) is a central place to keep them.

I like having the sink in the middle, not off at one end.

Since parties these days always wind up in the kitchen, it's worth thinking about it as a party space, too. So having an island with a bar on the other side proved to be a very good move for us. In fact, I'm sitting there typing right now...

Bottom freezer? If, like us, you open the fridge far more often than the freezer, that makes it more likely you'll eat the healthy stuff in the drawers since they'll be at your waist, not your ankles.

I love the extremely powerful ventilation hood (dual fans) that completely covers the entire area above the stovetop. When they are both on at warp-speed, not a single bit of airborne grease nor any cooking smells escape into the rest of the house.

What I hate about my kitchen is that the aforementioned hood was built too low for my height and it is diffult for me to reach to the back burners without banging my head on the hood.

Mr. Pie always complains that our sink is too small, even though it appears to be standard. Maybe I just don't notice since doing the dishes is not my job. We'd love to have a split sink, one standard with a smaller one on the side. That way it wouldl be easier to wash a couple small, necessary things rather than doing an entire load just to get to the bottom. However, if you have a dishwasher, this is probably not a concern.

Some of our cabinets shelves don't have enough room to fit taller items like sacks of flour. I have to move things around sometimes into un-related cabinets.

I have a small shelf over the sink that I use for herbs and spices that I just love. I wish it was bigger, but it's perfect for about 30 jars (some of those stubby McCormick jars are stacked).

I notice that our single, two-bulb light fixture does not provide enough light to our main countertop which is under cabinets and next to the fridge. Nothing is more annoying than a dim kitchen.

My favorite feature is a gift from Mr. Pie: a large post-it over the stove that reads Turn off the oven!

I don't know how I lived before obtaining my mom's baker's rack. I'm glad we have space for that, though it's becoming a catch-all when I'm not baking. It's a godsend, and now I can bake without worrying about the cat jumping up to eat my wares.

I agree with the statement about looking into making it party-friendly. Most of our get-togethers end up in front of the fridge.

Well! This may not prove of any use to you, but what a fun topic just to roll around in the brain pan.
Of course I've never had my ideal kitchen, so in many ways this will all be purely speculative. Equally, of course, it all depends on what and how you personally like to cook. An Asian-centric kitchen will look a lot different from an Italian farmhouse kitchen. (But you knew that.) So...in no particular order:

* Cupboards with swing-out shelf units so that things don't get lost in the back behind other things.
* Cabinets with pull-outs for the same reason.
* Flooring that supports, and cleans easily, e.g. rubber mats on wood, never tile. Cork maybe?
* A pot-filler with long flexible extension as part of the sink/faucet arrangement.
* Space allowing: a large island with built-in sink and butcher block top so you can segregate certain chores and keep prep mess away from the stove and countertops.
* Skylights. ( I really like a kitchen filled with natural light. But have to be careful of the exposure so you don't end up with direct blinding sun blasting down at certain times of day or seasons.)
* Hanging pot rack over the island
* A good hood to vent heat/odor
* large, double sink
* A hole in the island top with garbage recepticle underneath, so you can scrape peelings and trimmings directly down and away, instead of trying to scoop and transport across the floor to some other place.
* Plenty of outlets where you're going to need them, and enough amps for the appliances you may use all at once
* built-in speakers---I love to cook with music and hate having speakers in the way or in bad places.

I'm going through a kitchen redo right now, so, boy oh boy, do I have some strong opinions about what I like and don't like:

Sink: Opinions differ here, but I love a deep, single basin sink. 1. It hold sheets pans. 2. It is deep enough to hide dishes. If you do not want a single basin sink, at least try to get a double basin where one basin is large enough to fit a full sheet pan. I find that tiny little sink basin in some of the two-basin sinks to be a waste.

Refrigerator: I like the armoire-style with a bottom freezer. Not only do I like having the freezer on the bottom for the reasons stated by MikeG above, but I also made sure my refrigerator is deep/wide enough to hold sheet pans in the manner in which you would pack rollerboard suitcases in the overhead bins on a plane (that way, the fridge holds more, and that helps if you're having a party).

Undercabinet lighting: A must, although the halogen style gets hot.

Cabinets: Do 42" cabinets if at all possible. I don't go for the layout with all the built-ins like spice racks because I find it too limiting. (If you take up precious cabinet space with a built-in spice rack, then, well, you can only put spice jars in there.) But - I do like the following special features of cabinets: (1) Deep, large drawers for pots; (2) vertical slats in which you can slide in cutting boards and sheet pans (sense a theme) so that they stand on their sides; (3) lazy susans in the corner cabinets; and (4) built in recycling bins.

Dishwashers: I like the 2-drawer dishwashers. Life-changers. You can fill one, get it going, and then start to fill the other one. Also, if you have a party, you can put wine glasses in one and do a "China" wash, and put heavier dishes in the other one. It almost goes without saying, but the dishwasher should be next to the sink.

Stove hood: A stove hood that vents outside is great when you're smoking up your kitchen.

Design: I like the cabinets to be flush with the ceiling. There is nothing more wasted (or dirty) than the space above the cabinets.

I love everything about my kitchen because I designed it, and sought out info everywhere I could.
READ THIS THREAD.
The powerpoint near the end is a journal from demo to completion. I would highly suggest you do it as well if you decide to gut it and build from scratch. Memories, memories.

There are corners that can be cut, depends on what's important to you.

Suggestions: you know about the self shutting drawers, right? well, maybe you don't know that there are self closing cab doors. I had no idea. Why this might be important? One of the main ways to tell if a cab door is cheap is closing it. A heavy door is nice, a light flimsy door feels cheap when you close it. If a 5.00 mechanism closes the door for you, you never feel how cheap it is. We didn't go dirt cheap on the cabinets, but we went middle of the road, and our cabinet doors feel just as nice as thse heavy, custom, solid wood doors.

If I am recalling correctly, it was Mike G who suggested that the fridge innards (drawers and shelves) should be gone over with a fine tooth comb to make sure that they glide nicely and feel well built. I wish I heeded that a little bit more. We have a kitchenaid french door, and a few ppl whom I am related to by marriage, including wife 1.0 told me that the drawers will feel less flimsy and more solid when they are full. The weight will make them glide better. Not so. I would get a diff fridge if I could do it over. The drawers are annoying as all get out. They WORK, mind you, but you gotta do a little twist and turn to close them like 50% of the time. It's a small little annoyance, but it is a STUPID one, and I bet it drives me a little nuts sometimes. All I wanna do is close the $%^&* drawer. Thanks Kitchenaid, Thanks for the great testing. Jerks.

If you do an undermounted sink, the counter should come over the edge of the sink. If not, you have a nice little edge for little things to hang out on, like crumbs and such. Cathy2, I believe, stated that you should buy the best appliance that you can afford for each job. Matching name brands is not neccessary. I totally agree. The colors all match just fine no matter what brand.

We went with as many bottom drawers as we could get. I'm tired of bending down to reach into a cabinet. Drawers open for easy access/viewing.

I have no idea what a double sink can do that a single sink of the same size cannot. I have a 33 inch single bowl sink.
I tried for a month to figure out what a double sink could do that a single sink cannot.

I have no idea why anyone would want a side by side fridge unless it was truly a monster size. Standard side by sides are too small for me. And Again, I'm done bending down all the time.

Get a good vent/hood thing.

Try to figure out if any of the appliances you are eyeing are made by someone else, and then the brand you are looking at just slaps their logo on it. You might be surprised.

Check the appliance outlet stores, and also the clearance sections of appliance stores every so often.
If you plan on putting side panels on a fridge, then a scratch on the side of that fridge won't matter to you at ALL if the warranty is the exact same as a new one compared to one that has been returned/never used because it was scratched during install/delivery. Sears Outlet has hundreds, usually.

Electrical outlets on the island if you're getting one.

If you have specific questions, I'd be more than happy to attempt to field them. It was a real learning exp for me. Wasn't as bad as a lot of ppl said it would be, but my contractor told me everything that was happening, and what I should expect every step of the way. More than happy to throw you his name if you have any interest. he'll be doing a master bath for us, and probably anything else we'll ever want done here.

My kitchen wish-list:

--A large, bottom-mount sink that's not divided down the center. Currently, I have a double sink (both sides are the same size. Washing large baking sheets, stock pots, dutch ovens, etc. is very difficult. A bottom-mount would make life a lot easier when cleaning the counter. I want one giant basin with maybe a small side area to hold smaller stuff.

--A strong stove hood. I generate a lot of smoke when I cook and a lot of food odor that lingers a little too long.

--A softer floor material.

--Counter space on both sides of the stove. Currently my stove only has a counter on one side and it stinks to have stuff going far from the counter. Logistically it gets tricky.

Electrical outlets should come with the territory: A major remodel, with a building permit, may require as many as one outlet every four feet.

Similarly, my local codes (Mount Prospect) required a separate circuit for everything with a motor: Dishwashers, Fridge, Freezer, disposal, vent. By the time we were done, there were as many circuits for the new kitchen as the rest of the house.

seebee wrote:I have no idea what a double sink can do that a single sink of the same size cannot. I have a 33 inch single bowl sink.
I tried for a month to figure out what a double sink could do that a single sink cannot.

I have no idea why anyone would want a side by side fridge unless it was truly a monster size. Standard side by sides are too small for me. And Again, I'm done bending down all the time.

These two items could not be more important, in my opinion. There's a lot to hate about my kitchen (small, electric range, no vent hood, small, cheap cabinets with no pull-outs, no pantry, small, not enough storage overall, not enough outlets, small), but the two things I'm happy with are our giant sink and our oversized bottom-freezer fridge.

For the sink, we went with this guy, a 10"-deep granite composite single-basin sink made by Blanco. The size allows us to easily wash baking sheets, cutting boards & whatnot in it easily, and the depth means I can put a dirty pot in there (you know, "to soak" ) without it being visible at a glance. What the Home Depot pic doesn't show is that a second hole can be knocked out in the other back corner, so I put a single-hole faucet in one, and a dishwasher vent in the other. Plus it's resistant to heat, stains & scratches, which is a bonus.

As for the fridge, I don't care for side-by-side fridges either...I think it ends up with two compartments that aren't quite wide enough to fit anything properly (especially side freezers...good luck fitting one of those extra-wide Trader Joes frozen pizzas in there). Our kitchen isn't otherwise "high end" per se, and the rest of our appliances were already white, so we went with this bottom-freezer GE. I would have preferred a french door model, but at the time all of the available models were too wide for the space...now, however, there is one that's the perfect width. The one thing I'm torn on is the icemaker...on the one hand, it's handy for making ice packs, filling up a cooler, etc.. On the other hand, I don't like using it in drinks...all the built-in filtration & baking soda boxes in the world don't seem to prevent the ice from eventually smelling & tasting funny to me. Sometimes I wish I had the extra storage space instead.

I've never understood the two equal sinks side by side thing but we got one with a great big sink (big enough I can actually put large pans in it) and a small side sink (which is where the disposal went) and that seems pretty much the perfect arrangement to me.

Khaopaat wrote:and the depth means I can put a dirty pot in there (you know, "to soak" )

Hilarious. Even if the pot is practically clean as a whistle, if I'm tired or feeling lazy, I'll fill it up with soapy water because it needs "to soak." One of the reasons why I've got a deep single basin -- to hide the soaking soup pot!

[quote]--A large, bottom-mount sink that's not divided down the center. Currently, I have a double sink (both sides are the same size. Washing large baking sheets, stock pots, dutch ovens, etc. is very difficult.quote]

Could not agree with this more. I hate my divided sink with a passion.

I've owned refrigerators with freezers on the top, on the side and on the bottom, and I think I prefer the top freezers the best. Bottom is also OK, but I find stuff tends to get lost at the bottom. Side by side is terrible.

I thought I would be indifferent to a through the door ice maker, but I love it.

If you're not going to have an island, pay careful attention to how the appliances and sink break up the counter space. I do a lot of baking and found that whoever laid out my kitchen did not allow for a really adequate work area (I don't have an island). Plus, below what was supposed to be the main work space, they somehow ran a heating duct underneath, which heats it up the counter in the winter - a very bad thing for pastry.

Aside from wall outlets, also nice to have an undercabinet plugstrip, along with undercabinet lighting (and the better choice for undercabinet lighting is low-profile fluorescent (T5). Not only cooler but cheaper to operate than halogen. And then make sure you have plenty of juice at the electrical panel to run it all.

Thank you all! This is exactly why I posted. Keep 'em coming....

In the meantime, a couple questions: I'm afraid I simply don't know what a "bottom-mount" sink is, though I've got a suspicion. Can someone enlighten me?

And Michael, you mentioned a softer floor. What do you have now? We have our original 1913 maple floor and I'm fond of it, frankly.

Gypsy Boy wrote:And Michael, you mentioned a softer floor. What do you have now? We have our original 1913 maple floor and I'm fond of it, frankly.

Ceramic tile.

I don't wear shoes in the house and any extended period of time standing on the kitchen floor is uncomfortable to me. I've looked into cork, bamboo, and different kinds of rubber options.

GB,

I love:

- Large island with pot rack hanging above
- Bottom Freezer with French door top Refrigerator
- Outlets, Outlets, Outlets
- Sliding shelves in Cabinets for heavy items like dutch ovens
- Mounted the false drawer in front of sink on hinges and use to store sponges and gloves

I hate:

- Black tile floor, never is clean
- Black tile floor, never is clean enough
- The floor just never looks clean

Flip

eatchicago wrote:

Gypsy Boy wrote:And Michael, you mentioned a softer floor. What do you have now? We have our original 1913 maple floor and I'm fond of it, frankly.

Ceramic tile.

I don't wear shoes in the house and any extended period of time standing on the kitchen floor is uncomfortable to me. I've looked into cork, bamboo, and different kinds of rubber options.

This is quite true. As insignificant as it sounds like it might be ( it did to me anyway.) While we were doing our kitchen, one day I was doing dishes at the in-laws. I asked wife 1.0 if she always got a back ache when she did dishes at her folks house. I noticed that I ALWAYS did, and I'm pretty fit, not old. I have a few extra pounds on me, well maybe 40, but I'm in the gym 3 days a week, and do lots of phys activity, still hold some weightlifting records at the ol high school - i'm in decent shape. I thought the bachache was because the cabinets/sink were lower than normal, but wife 1.0 quickly pointed out the stone tile floor. I'd assume you just get used to it after a while - whatever muscles support your back will build up, but it's really surprising how uncomfortable it is if you're not used to such a hard surface. I thought maybe my feet should hurt, but no, it's all in my back when I'm over there working in their kitchen.

Gypsy Boy wrote:In the meantime, a couple questions: I'm afraid I simply don't know what a "bottom-mount" sink is, though I've got a suspicion. Can someone enlighten me?

A "bottom-mount" is a/k/a undermount. If you have stone countertops, you mount the sink underneath the stone countertop (and caulk underneath the countertop), rather than have the lip of the sink overlap onto the countertop.

One more thing I'd add to the "hate" list:

Ceramic tile countertops. Grout (even sealed grout) is hard enough to keep clean, why would you want to have to worry about keeping up multiple grout lines on your hard-working countertop?

A bottom-mount sink is one that attaches to the bottom of the countertop, as opposed to a top-mount which drops into a hole, but has a rim around the top. This rim is usually a gunk magnet, and makes it more difficult to sweep stuff from the counter into the sink. Go for the bottom-mount.

On the side-by-sides: Whirlpool, and I think at least one other brand, sell a matched set of fridge and freezer, with dimensions more typical of a standard fridge each -- not counter depth, and with normal casters for cleaning behind. They were also, together, around half the price of a similar width (but a litle more than half the capacity) Sub-Zero counter-depth. I'm pretty darn happy with them, except for the lack of through-the door ice and water. I can't find such models at Whirlpool right now, but Abt has some Frigidaires like that.

Our kitchen is tiny, but it has sort of adequate counter space (fine for cooking, but not enough for baking) and lots of cabinets. If I had my way, though, it would look like this:

-Lots of wall space. I like pot-and-pan racks very much, and also it's nice to have room for a little decor.
-Countertops of butcher block and a copiously-sized island with a marble top for baking
-A farm sink
-Counter-height fridge (assuming there is space elsewhere for a deep freeze)
-A window above the sink
-And a walk-in pantry!

My current apartment has a feature that I love, but haven't seen anywhere else. There's a built-in wood cutting board that slides out from under the counter (but above the cabinets.) The cutting board goes all the way back to the wall, so I call pull it out 3/4 of the way to use it. This keeps enough of it still in the cabinet to make it stable, but gives me instant extra counter space. The cutting board isn't attached, so I can also pull it out all the way to give it a good cleaning. This cutting board absolutely makes the difference between not enough and just enough counter space in my kitchen.

I don't get why everyone is against double sinks. I've always thought it nice to have one side to wash and one to rinse. But I don't have a dishwasher. I don't see much advantage to a double sink if you're not hand washing dishes.

I have no idea what a double sink can do that a single sink of the same size cannot. I have a 33 inch single bowl sink. I tried for a month to figure out what a double sink could do that a single sink cannot.

Hold a rack to dry dishes?

My husband, who is a kitchen remodelling contractor (in case you need a quote, GB ), could post a better reply to this than I can, but I can guess at a few things he would mention as high priorities:

- full-height cabinets
- heavy-duty self-closing drawer slides
- plenty of lighting (ceiling fixture, ceiling cans, and undercabinet)
- a deep sink

As others have mentioned, current codes require more outlets per linear foot of wall than in the past, and I might be wrong about this but in a kitchen they might all have to be OGFC.

Our (unremodelled) kitchen floor is ceramic tile, but he had a cork floor in a previous house and would like to have cork again.

One thing I had in a previous house and really liked was one upper cabinet with a glass front, for wine glasses and the like. Nice if you don't have a china cabinet (or even if you do), and very pretty with some in-cabinet lighting.

Ceramic tile countertops. Grout (even sealed grout) is hard enough to keep clean, why would you want to have to worry about keeping up multiple grout lines on your hard-working countertop?

I've often wondered too about kitchens that have ceramic tile backsplashes behind the stove, and whether they get stains in the grout from splattering sauces.

I don't get why everyone is against double sinks.

It's not that the sink is double, it's that each side of the standard size double sink is too small to wash larger items properly, like half sheet pans. I also have frying pans where due to the size of the handle, I have to wash the pan upright and can't soak it.

Hey, soaking is a crucial part of my culinary makeup...most of my pots need to soak at least 24 hours, or as long as my husband's longest shift at work...

At any rate, we live in a closet (some of you have been here - am I wrong?) and we gutted our kitchen and rehabbed it on a just-got-pregnant budget, so we cut many corners, some of which I regret and some I don't.

Places where we went right:

1. Taking out the superfluous half-wall between the kitchen and the dining room. IMO, you don't need or want a wall there unless it has an island in it: it just gets in the way. An island might also have the useful ability to screen off a sinkful of dirty dishes.
2. Doing our best to create a "triangle" in the limited galley-space we have by moving the fridge to a facing corner.
3. Getting a dishwasher without a "brain" - I don't know if these are available anymore, but we got a two-pump model with a manual dial, no electronics. It's served us noisily but well for many years and when it finally needed repair, was fixed up for $100.

Places where we should have done better:

1. Saved money by buying appliances in available colors - so, stylistically our kitchen looks a bit odd - but I suppose that's bothers me less considering the money we saved.
2. Stove: we went cheap with limited electronics on a gas range/oven: it needs better insulation, better ventilation...in short, we should have spent a little more money (it was the high side of the lowest-priced units, we should have opted for a mid-range model.) I do like that the burners are set up so you can slide a pan from the front burner to the back.
3. Ventilation. Need I say more? Well, I will add this: our stove is directly in front of the plumbing stack, so ventilation can't be added. Don't do that.
4. Cheap laminate countertops that weren't factory sealed on the underside: the moisture from the dishwasher vent makes the particle board swell and do ugly things. Solid-surface has definite benefits.
5. An top-mounted sink. I HATE that water can pool around the outside edge of my sink, and I can't just brush the counter into it. An under-mounted sink also requires a solid-surface counter.

Double oven.....Try having Thanksgiving without one.
QUIET dishwasher.
Long island with plenty of stools.
People hang out in the kitchen nowadays and want to sit down around the counter/island/bar. If you have one couple over where is everybody going to sit? Nobody wants to go over to the table. They want to be around the action.
Room for a pantry at all costs( I think dicksond brought up the three year rule last night for arguments, and this is one I could bring up every night-not important to him, but I wanted one, and never got it).
And I agree with more drawers instead of cabinets.

There's a built-in wood cutting board that slides out from under the counter (but above the cabinets.) The cutting board goes all the way back to the wall, so I call pull it out 3/4 of the way to use it.

I had one of those somewhere and I agree, it's an excellent help.

This isn't really a remodeling thing, but... I bought a wooden cutting board at Ikea once, one side flat, one grooved to catch juices, a lip to hold it in place on the counter as you work-- I use it all the time, rolling out dough or whatever, one of the best uses of $12 or whatever ridiculously low price it was I've ever spent.