Does beef still taste like beef?

You always here about supermarket pork and chicken lacking the flavor of "old time" pork and chicken, and this is certainly borne out when you taste heritage breeds that aren't factory farmed. But what about beef?

There is the grass-fed/corn-fed distinction...is this the same thing?

Is the conversation framed differently because so many prefer the taste of grain-finished beef to grass-fed, whereas there is little flavor advantage to factory-farmed pork?

Or maybe because grain-finished beef has been the standard for so long, that fewer have taste memory of pastured cattle?

I think it is quite easy to buy cheap beef that has no flavor at all. So I don't think the issue you raise is exactly the same thing as the corn vs grass fed issue. It is certainly possible to get corn fed beef that tastes very good.

I believe there is a very wide spectrum in the quality of beef, no matter how it has been fed. Unfortunately it seems like a crap shoot every time you buy it. One of the worst steaks I've had in memory was a grass-fed ribeye from Whole Foods. Absolutely no flavor to it.

I guess part of the question that I didn't articulate very clearly (or maybe is just an inaccurate thesis), is why don't you hear the same kind of complaints with beef as you do with chicken and pork that it "just doesn't taste like beef."

Is it because we have the prime/choice/select USDA designations for which there isn't a comparable pork and poultry system?

It seems like there is a difference in the way people talk about beef, and that good-tasting beef wasn't "lost" to the mainstream in the way that pork and poultry were.

A couple of random thoughts:

The lifespan of a chicken is 5-6 weeks, a hog 5-6 months, a steer 20-24 months.

Most cattle spend the majority of their lives on pasture running around. Chickens and hogs live indoors in confinement.

Cattle are massive brutes (1000-1400lbs) that take a lot of muscle development just to move around.

When we got our first Bossy, the first thing we noticed was that it tasted like beef: it was as though we hadn't had beef for years. We'd become so used to the flavor of supermarket beef that we didn't notice that it had changed, unlike supermarket chicken, which suddenly became really flavorless almost overnight. Though I didn't notice in most groceries, I had noticed that the "rancher's reserve" stuff Dominicks suddenly started touting was flavorless from the get-go: almost as if they had deliberately removed the flavor.

I think some of it is that beef, even cheap beef, has more iron in it than chicken, which accounts for a lot of its character - so it usually has some flavor. It's hard to notice a quality issue until you have something to compare it to. I think, also, that teatpuller is right: there's a degree of crapshoot in individual animals and steaks - some of it farming, some of it handling (I think steaks are extra-sensitive to temperature problems.).

Aaron Deacon wrote:I guess part of the question that I didn't articulate very clearly (or maybe is just an inaccurate thesis), is why don't you hear the same kind of complaints with beef as you do with chicken and pork that it "just doesn't taste like beef."

Is it because we have the prime/choice/select USDA designations for which there isn't a comparable pork and poultry system?

It seems like there is a difference in the way people talk about beef, and that good-tasting beef wasn't "lost" to the mainstream in the way that pork and poultry were.

I hear complaints about beef all the time. Much of it has to do with people not noticing or knowing the difference about beef grading. Most big box supermarkets have gone to all select-grade beef, and that just doesn't have the flavor or tenderness of choice or prime.

The complaints I mostly hear tend to take the form, "Why can't I make steaks as good as XYZ Steakhouse?" or "Why doesn't my beef dish taste as good as my mom's did?" At which point, I quiz them about where they bought their meat.

Grain-finished beef has been the standard in the U.S. since World War II, so you're unlikely to find many Americans who "miss" all-grass-fed beef. But all cattle in the U.S. is pastured for most of its life. Grain-fattening is only done for a short period. In my opinion, this step adds flavor rather than subtracting it.

Companies like Tallgrass, who promote grass-finished beef, go to considerable effort to identify strains that will fatten and be flavorful and tender without grain finishing -- it's breeding rather than feeding which affects such brands. But less carefully selected cattle are always going to taste better with grain finishing.

Further, the cut of beef affects flavor as well. Some parts taste beefier than others.

Hi,

At the Beef symposium, there was a side by side tasting of whole roasted loins from Tallgrass Beef and Certified Angus Beef.

We received specific instructions on cooking the Tallgrass beef, because it roasts in a shorter period of time.

In my opinion, the Certfied Angus Beef was more tender and had a sweeter taste. The Tallgrass beef didn't have the sweet tones. There was a show of hands with CAB being preferred by more than the grassfed. However, if I was presented with one or the other, I would eat them without reservation.

All cattle are grass fed. It is the finishing where corn is introduced. There was an Illinois rancher present who had both cow-calf as well as feedlot operations. When they were being readied for finishing, he had to slowly introduce corn to their diet. They did this by gradually mixing in more corn to their hay.

I have a friend who grew up eating dry-aged beef, who dislikes wet-aged. From his perspective, any non-dry-aged beef doesn't taste as good as he wishes.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

I have a friend who grew up eating dry-aged beef, who dislikes wet-aged. From his perspective, any non-dry-aged beef doesn't taste as good as he wishes.

Regards,

I think I agree with that. But you find it so rarely at the retail level anymore I can't say for sure.

Aaron Deacon wrote:You always here about supermarket pork and chicken lacking the flavor of "old time" pork and chicken, and this is certainly borne out when you taste heritage breeds that aren't factory farmed. But what about beef?

Aaron: I don't think any of the heritage breeds are factory farmed; am I wrong?

Aaron Deacon wrote:I guess part of the question that I didn't articulate very clearly (or maybe is just an inaccurate thesis), is why don't you hear the same kind of complaints with beef as you do with chicken and pork that it "just doesn't taste like beef."

Is it because we have the prime/choice/select USDA designations for which there isn't a comparable pork and poultry system?

It seems like there is a difference in the way people talk about beef, and that good-tasting beef wasn't "lost" to the mainstream in the way that pork and poultry were.

Red meat benefits significantly from marbling of intramuscular fat. This is one of the reasons for breed preferences (Angus, Waygu) and finishing on corn. In general more corn means more fat. The USDA selection is based on a single cut across the ribeye behind the 12th vertabra. They consider marbling, firmness, texture, color and maturity. The judgement takes about 15 seconds. This explains why you will see some well marbled USDA Select steaks that have better marbling than other USDA choice cuts. You should also know that there is a very wide range of USDA Choice.

Hogs used to be processed when they were much older and larger. Those big hogs used to have much more fat; read that as equivalent to flavor. Hogs are now processed quite young to provide tender meat with much less fat content providing less flavor for "the other white meat". Intermuscular fat is more dependent on breeding. You can look for Berkshire or Mangalitsa pork.

Chickens that are not mechanically processed have flavor. The Cornish Cross breed was designed for volume rather than flavor. The processing strips more flavor by washing birds to clean them and encouraging natural absorption of water. You can look for air process chickens for more flavor. In some cases you can even find other breeds.

Tim

Right - I think we'd historically purchased select steaks just for cost - but I noticed a couple years ago that even those didn't have much flavor. I'm guessing that the market has skewed towards the low end of the grade.

Our quarter cow is corn-finished; I'm wondering if there is also some effect differing durations of corn finishing. There is a distinct difference between our small-farm-raised cow and beef we purchase at grocery stores, regardless of the grade of meat: sometimes we like the difference, sometimes we don't. The steaks (particularly the ribeye) have an almost lamby flavor, and sometimes a mealy texture, but all the other meat is rich and flavorful in a way that we don't see in the supermarket. I have no idea what breed of cow it is, so that could easily be a variable as well. Interesting that you mention processing - the cow is processed at a smaller local butcher.

In short, there are quite a few variables to juggle, but the practical upshot is that grocery-store beef isn't as good as it used to be.

Tim wrote:Aaron: I don't think any of the heritage breeds are factory farmed; am I wrong?

Not sure, my assumption was the same as yours, but thought I'd hedge that assumption.

My follow-up question, to several of the good points made above, is why have the differentiators in beef been so well-preserved?

Though people may have been frustrated with access to top quality beef (e.g., steakhouse grade, prime), I think there has always been a recognition it exists and is available.

Is it just because people like beef better? Because of marketing for Omaha Steaks? Or maybe "average" beef quality declined along time before "average" pork and chicken quality, so the premium designations for beef occurred long ago, whereas the premium designations for pork and chicken are developing much more recently?

Interesting. You might be onto something there - beef still has kind of a luxury-purchase feel to it, where chickens have been in every pot for a while.

I was just thinking, though: while the quality of meat and certain fresh produce items has certainly declined (tomatoes, fruit, etc.) there are things that seem to be immune: shell beans, for instance, don't seem any different...possibly because they are no longer a staple in most households?

Just a couple of weeks ago I read an article over at the Independent, titled "Beef encounter: Meet the master taster who can tell a cow's age, gender and breed from one mouthful of meat". Crazy stuff.

-Dan

Aaron Deacon wrote:[
My follow-up question, to several of the good points made above, is why have the differentiators in beef been so well-preserved?

.... Or maybe "average" beef quality declined along time before "average" pork and chicken quality, so the premium designations for beef occurred long ago, whereas the premium designations for pork and chicken are developing much more recently?

Aaron,

I really don't think there have been dramatic changes in beef over the last 20 years.

Breed selection has improved beef quality. Chicken breed changes have reduced quality at the expense of faster growth. Breed changes in pigs have been aimed toward profitability, not flavor.

I suspect that feed changes have not affected the flavor of the beef. If cattle walk less than they did 20 years ago, they beef will have more fat and that improves flavor.

I don't know anything about changes in the age of beef at processing. The age of chickens and hogs has dropped by a significant amount; the quality has gone down as a result.

Processing method have not reduced the quality of the product. The processing methods used with chickens is a total disaster for quality. Profit is all that counts.

As far as beef grades, the USDA expanded the quality range of Choice many years ago. As I said, there is a wide range of quality in USDA Choice beef.

Tim

Aaron Deacon wrote:
My follow-up question, to several of the good points made above, is why have the differentiators in beef been so well-preserved?

Partially because:

US hog and poultry production is dominated by a handful of companies. For example, probably 50% of all chickens are grown by 2 companies and 90% by 20.

There are still tens of thousands of independent beef producers.

teatpuller wrote:

Aaron Deacon wrote:

Tim wrote:
My follow-up question, to several of the good points made above, is why have the differentiators in beef been so well-preserved?

Partially because:

US hog and poultry production is dominated by a handful of companies. For example, probably 50% of all chickens are grown by 2 companies and 90% by 20.

There are still tens of thousands of independent beef producers.

Teatpuller,

I did not ask that follow-up question. Could you edit?

Tim