Shio Ramen Stock - 6 hrs or 2?

I've been totally addicted to the memory of the shio ramen that I had at Mitsuwa a few weeks ago. Since I'm car-less, I am forced to call upon my own cooking abilities to try to replicate the experience. I've been googling shio ramen recipes and they rarely agree. I like the two following ideas. On Yahoo answers there was this:

6 cups water.
400 gram pig bones (Tonkotsu) or one chicken carcass (Shio/Shoyu). You can substitute pigs trotter for pork based stock or small gutted chicken for Shio or Shoyu.
2 tbsp sake
30 grams fresh ginger.
The green (inedible) part of two long onions or one leek.
50 grams shiitake mushrooms per serve.
Slice ginger. Cut green part of long onion into halves. Wrapped the bones in cloth and splinter. Bring the water, bones or carcass, sake, ginger and green onion to boil in large pot. Keep on a rolling boil for about 6 hours, check that the bones have mostly dissolved, then strain through a muslin cloth. Discard everything but the broth.
NOTE: the thickness of the broth will directly influence flavor. Obviously boiling the base with the lid off can reduce the mixture to a much thinker broth with deeper flavor while a thinner broth has a lighter flavor. It is not recommended to reduce the broth and then dilute the stock later. Sadly, the world of Japanese cooking doesn’t work like that. For pork based stocks such as Tonkotsu a strong dark stock is desired. For Shio stock add extra salt but no soy sauce while for Shoyu double the soy sauce but don’t add additional salt. Allow excess broth to cool and before storing in the fridge.

Then on Cheftalk.com, I found this:

Get some meaty pork bones, preferably legs, necks, backbones, and so on. Cover very generously with lots and lots of cold water. Bring slowly up to a boil, skimming for the first 15-20 minutes, but not afterward. Add scallion, a hunk of ginger, and some peppercorns. Ready?

Turn the heat to full blast. Cover the pot. Boil as rapidly as you can for as long as you can, adding cold water if necessary. When it's cooked for a couple of hours like this, shut off the heat and let it cool a bit, then strain coarsely, then medium-fine to remove grit, then let cool on the countertop.

Does anyone have experience with making shio ramen? My gut tells me that 6 hours is probably the right amount of time to simmer for full flavor, but my cheatin' side wants to cut it down to two. What do you think?

The result should be almost milky with emulsified fat and gelatin. Salt lightly, to taste.

So I ended up trying the 6 hour method and I did indeed get a milky gelatinous stock. But there was something lacking in the flavors. I added pork back bones, 8 large dried shiitake mushrooms, green onions, garlic, and a big chunk of ginger. But this still doesn't taste like what I had at Mitsuwa. I also stirred in a tiny bit of soy sauce and fish sauce to get some complexity, but no dice, savoury, but not deep and intense. Does anyone have suggestions for making the flavors better?

Hi,

If you have seasoned it already, it may be for the next batch. Sometimes weak flavor is because it is too diluted. A simmer (or boil) to reduce the liquid and concentrate the flavor can be helpful.

Regards,

I've been experimenting with shio & shoyu ramen lately (since I learned that Kitakata was closing, efforts have been redoubled - eep!), and have found that there are some keys to gaining complexity and depth in flavor: 1) browning/roasting the bones first, and 2) using dashi .

Regarding 2 hours vs. 6 hours, I would lean toward 6, as there is more time for the gelatin to ooze its way out of the bones.

Fresh Farms has both pork neck bones and el-cheapo fryers for around $0.79/lb - cheap enough for lots of experimentation!

Stock/base:
1 pkg pork neck bones (~ 4 lbs.)
1 whole fryer chicken (~ 3.5 lbs.)
5-6 garlic cloves, peeled
1 knob ginger (~3.5 oz.), sliced into 0.5" pieces
6 green onion stalks, cleaned and trimmed

Dashi:
6 2"x2" pcs. kombu
1 fistful of bonito flake - stick your hand in the bag, grab, and pull out. That's enough.
salt
1 qt. water


12 qt. Stock pot
3 qt. saucepan
2 sheet pans

To make the stock:
Adjust oven racks to 1/3rd and 2/3rd and preheat to 350. Break down the fryers into their component fryer parts, rub oil on both the pork and chicken, then sprinkle salt the pork bones. Roast at 350°F/180°C for ~ 50 minutes.

Fill the stock pot with ~6 qts. of cold water. Add garlic, ginger and scallion. Bring to boil. By the time you have a rolling boil, it'll be time to pull the bones out of the oven (about 10min or so).

Remove bones from oven and RESERVE THE FAT (adding just a little bit to the finished broth makes a difference). Add pork & chicken bones to boiling water and enough water to cover the bones. This will bring down the water temp. Keep heat on high until it returns to simmer, then drop heat to maintain simmer. You want the water as hot as possible WITHOUT boiling. Skim every 5 min. for the first 15 min., then cover (and drop heat just a bit) and let it sit. My test for "done-ness" is to grab the pork bones with a pair of tongs. If I can crumble the bones, it's done. After 6-7 hours, remove from heat, strain thoroughly (I sandwich a piece of cheesecloth between 2 colanders) to catch any stray pieces of yuck, and you should have 3~4 qts. of stock. Don't worry about defatting the stock - roasting should've rendered most of it, and whatever's left will be minimal.



To make the dashi:
Bring 1 qt. water and kombu to boil in small saucepan. Once boiling, skim off any scum from surface and drop to simmer for 10 minutes. Add bonito, then simmer for another 10 minutes. Strain and reserve. The kombu has glutamic acid, and the bonito, well, it's dried fermented fish, so we're covering the same bases as your shitake and fish sauce.


To prep for ramen:
2 qts. of stock
1 c. of dashi
1/4 tsp. white pepper
3-4 pcs. ginger, sliced to 0.5"
2-3 cloves garlic
salt, to taste

Bring to simmer for 10 min. in a small saucepan, adding seasonings to taste. This is where I adjust to add shoyu to make it shoyu-ramen.

Yahoo Answers has a pretty good egg noodle recipe that uses AP flour. I've used it with success.

hope that helps.
-s.

Sherman wrote:1) browning/roasting the bones first, and 2) using dashi .

Sherman, do you have any idea how to get dashi ingrediants in the city? So far, I know that Joon Boo sells Miso Dashi but that's not quite the same thing. I think in my next broth attempt, I will try the roasting method too (I originally shy away from it only because I was reading a pho recipe that didn't recommend browning).

Thank you for your insight!

Eaterlover wrote:Sherman, do you have any idea how to get dashi ingredients in the city?

I'm not Sherman, but both Mitsuwa and Tensuke carry bonito flakes and kombu. I'd be surprised if Joong Boo didn't sell kombo and bonito flakes as well.

Eaterlover wrote:I think in my next broth attempt, I will try the roasting method too (I originally shy away from it only because I was reading a pho recipe that didn't recommend browning).

Different cultures, different soups, not sure why a pho recipe would impact your ramen decisions.

Sherman thank you for the tutorial, I see ramen on my immediate horizon.

Enjoy,
Gary

Mitsuwa Marketplace
100 E Algonquin Rd
Arlingto Heights IL
847-956-6699

Tensuke
3 Arlington Heights Rd
Elk Grove Village, IL 60007
847-806-1200

Joong Boo
3333 N Kimball Ave
Chicago, IL
773-478-5566

Not to hijack this thread with a non-stock question, but does anyone know where to buy fresh ramen noodles? I've checked Mitsuwa and not sure if my eyes failed me, but no dice. One day I will tackle home made noodles, but I would like to start with the stock. Any advice? Seems a shame to toss the old dry noodle brick into a six hour simmered stock.

IIRC Mitsuwa had ramen in both the refrigerated and frozen sections the last time I was there (a few weeks ago). Made in California.

Eaterlover wrote:Sherman, do you have any idea how to get dashi ingrediants in the city? So far, I know that Joon Boo sells Miso Dashi but that's not quite the same thing.

If you're referring to "within city limits", then that rules out Tensuke, Mitsuwa, and H Mart. You should be able to find kombu at Joon Boo, Chicago Food Corp on N. Pulaski, Tai Nam or Golden Pacific in Uptown. Bonito, on the other hand, may be more difficult.

Chicago Food Corp.
5800 N. Pulaski

Tai Nam Grocery
4925 N. Broadway

Golden Pacific Market
5353 N Broadway Street

best,
-s.

Eaterlover wrote:So I ended up trying the 6 hour method and I did indeed get a milky gelatinous stock. But there was something lacking in the flavors. I added pork back bones, 8 large dried shiitake mushrooms, green onions, garlic, and a big chunk of ginger. But this still doesn't taste like what I had at Mitsuwa. I also stirred in a tiny bit of soy sauce and fish sauce to get some complexity, but no dice, savoury, but not deep and intense. Does anyone have suggestions for making the flavors better?

The ramen at Mitsuwa is asahikawa style. It involves 2 separate stocks of tonkotsu (pork) and seafood (sardines, shellfish, or some other?). It may also need a third vegetable-only broth, but pork + seafood should be good for starters.

I would try making a niboshi (dried sardine) stock for starters and looks for the right ratio with your tonkotsu.

It's very difficult to replicate, but if you do pull it off please post your recipe! It's my favorite style of ramen. My second choice, Daikokuya in LA, doesn't quite come close.

kanin wrote:The ramen at Mitsuwa is asahikawa style. It involves 2 separate stocks of tonkotsu (pork) and seafood (sardines, shellfish, or some other?). It may also need a third vegetable-only broth, but pork + seafood should be good for starters.
I would try making a niboshi (dried sardine) stock for starters and looks for the right ratio with your tonkotsu.

Kanin, what a good observations, I tasted something else in the Ramen, but really couldn't identify what the flavors were. I think the seafood flavors definitely will get me closer to my destination. Since Joong Boo has dried tiny fish (sardines? anchovies?) by the pound, I might try to produce a fish stock next time and combine it with the tonkotsu stock. If it's amazing, I'll be sure to produce the recipe here!

Gwiv, thanks for the tip on the bonito and kombu stash (I'll probably be limited to the stores accessible by public transport). The only reason I shyed away from roasting pork bones (other than the pho influence) was that I thought the roasting brought out more grease in stock. But I'm willing to sacrifice fattier stock for deeper flavors.

Eaterlover wrote:The only reason I shyed away from roasting pork bones (other than the pho influence) was that I thought the roasting brought out more grease in stock. But I'm willing to sacrifice fattier stock for deeper flavors.

I've found the opposite to be true - roasting provides more complex flavors, thanks in part to Maillard reactions; one of the other benefits of roasting is that much of the fat is rendered before ever seeing the inside of a stock pot. I don't think that you'll be making any sacrifices - if anything, you will have less defatting after the stock is done. You can even elevate the bones by putting them on a cooling rack, then putting the rack on a baking sheet, but I've found this last step to be mostly unnecessary.

Additionally, you can add about 1/2 oz. niboshi to the dashi recipe above - just make sure to add it at the same time as the kombu.

-s.