Sharpening a Global knife

Hey folks,

Any advice on sharpening a Japanese, non-beveled blade? Rumor has it I shouldn't use my plain old steel steel. Global sells a ceramic steel for $95, but I suspect they're faking.

What's the real deal here?

Thanks,

Alex

Global also sells a ceramic water sharpener. In any case, I have all of my Global knives professionally sharpened on a regular basis.

Northwest Cutlery
312.421.7016
810 W. Lake Street

E.M.

I got my blades sharpened at Northwestern last night for $3.50 / each. They did a great job and were able to put a new tip on the paring knife which I had stupidly used to try and pierce the top of one of those premade biscuit canisters. There's a big parking lot next door for convenience.

I also picked up a big Lodge dutch oven for only $50. Who needs that fancy ceramic Le Crueset stuff ?

I've used the Global shinkansen (ceramic wheel) sharpener for a couple of years. It does a fine job. I lent it to a chef friend. Dubious at first, she raved about the edge it put on her beat-up Globals.

personally, i no longer take my knives to NW cutlery because they always come back a few ounces lighter. i sharpen my globals just like any other french ground knife, on a norton india stone with a little oil. a quick few laps on a steel strops the blade well. global's claim that they need special treatment doesnt make a whole lot of sense, since their steel is not a whole lot harder than any other quality knife. A knife with a hardness over RK65 or so might need a more sophisticated sharpening process, but not many of us have knives that hard. my first reaction with a knife that hard would be the norton stone anyway. hey, its worth a shot

if you have a global sashimi knife, the process is a little bit different. a half-hollow blade like a traditional japanese knife is laid down on the hone from spine to edge, rather than just the final bevel. basicly just lay the knife down on the hone, then drag it across from heel to tip. remember that less is more when it comes to honing: a french knife shouldnt be so sharp that it's edge breaks easily, while a japanese ground knife should just remove hairs from your forearm. usually about 8 or 10 laps on a hone restores a good edge on a workable knife.

SushiGaijin wrote:personally, i no longer take my knives to NW cutlery because they always come back a few ounces lighter.

Sushi,

That has not been my experience with Northwestern Cutlery. They do everything by hand, including rebevel if necessary, and while, of course, there is some loss of metal, the measurement scale is in percentage of a gram, not multiple ounces.

On the rare occasion I've had my knives done by a company that machine sharpens, Cozzini for example, there has been considerably more loss of metal than Northwestern Cutlery.

Enjoy,
Gary

I followed Gary's advice and had my knives done at NW. While there, I also picked up a MAC chef's knife. The new edges on the old Henckels make them as much a pleasure to use as the new MAC.

Are any of you familiar with the Chef's Choice Edge Select sharpener? I'd be very interested to hear your opinions.

Thanks!

i get about three sharpens from NW before the knives are ready for the circular file. i've thrown away three globals (two 13" and an 8") which have gone to NW thrice...they simply are not wide enough to behave as a french knife should after going three times. i keep one long one around as a roast slicer, but its a skewer compared to when i first bought it. i figure i go through a knife every year and a half when getting them professionally honed, but they last at least twice that long when i hone them myself. one caveat: i am knife-in-hand for 10-12 hours a day, six days a week (sixteen hours on saturdays)

i havent used the edge select, i'd imagine it works well for most people. my favorite knife sharpener:

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store ... ml?s=NOIB8


Erik

Erik,

Thanks for the feedback and the link. How do you go about using a stone such as this?

Kwe730 wrote:Erik,

Thanks for the feedback and the link. How do you go about using a stone such as this?

ok, here goes...sorry for the out of focus and rushed photos, seemed to be good enough to me...

the most important thing is to take your time and keep the angle of impact correct. the last picture shows a 25 degree angle, fine for french knives. rest your thumb on the stone, the edge of the knife on the stone, and most knives will be sharp enough if the spine is elevated to the middle of your thumb. keep the knife at a lateral 90 degree angle, to keep all of the micro-serrations that the stone makes even and equal. that results in a knife with no extra sharp or extra dull parts, just a nice even sharpness from heep to tip. do not use much pressure, just enough to keep the knife on the stone without skipping.

use enough oil (or water on a waterstone) to keep a slurry of material on the surface; most of the sharpening of a french knife is done by the slurry and not the stone itself. put down a paper towel to keep your counter clean.

your stroke on the stone should make an X shape, evenly cutting both sides of the blade. an knife with a decent bevel will need about 8-10 laps on the course side and 10-15 laps on the fine side, followed by a few laps on the steel.







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Hi,

Thanks for the images, they give that extra bit of information often needed.

Regards,

Another option is the EdgePro. I've talked with several people who own them, including professionals, and they seem to be quite impressed. I always like to point to them since they're a local company. I plan to get one of the consumer models some day.

You can also do a Google search on "Scary Sharp" That's the method I used to use for my chisels (spendy Japanese ones...some thief has no idea what he took )

Basically it entails getting a couple pieces of plate glass and spray mounting very very fine sandpaper to them. I was able to get my chisels to be mirror finish with a perfect secondary bevel that could glide through curly maple like warm butter. You use mostly the same movements as shown above in the illustrations but for the bevels I used a block like the EdgePro to guide my hand.

I also like Northwestern but do think that they take a good bit of steel off, I am defintely in the less is more camp in that regard, once I have my bevels set where I want them, it doesn't take much to keep them hair popping sharp.

SushiGaijin wrote:ok, here goes...sorry for the out of focus and rushed photos, seemed to be good enough to me...

Erik,

Thanks for the photos, though I don't think it's going to help me. I, over the last 20+ years have attempted to learn the art, and yes I think it's an art, of using a stone. To this effect I've not only purchased a number of stones, but have had conversations, and/or sharpened with, one-legged Gator Butchers from Lake Okeechobee to the head of production at a meat possessing plant in Vernon, California to Frank Centefonte, past president of the Knife Makers Guild.

When I realized sharpening with a stone was simply out of my reach, same as slam-dunking a basketball, I started buying mechanical aids. including a $150 Lansky system. No dice, I have some sort of mental block. Lucky there's Northwestern.

Enjoy,
Gary

Postscript:
In the future would you please post pictures 600 x, larger necessitates scrolling.

Sushi Gaigin, THANK YOU for the great photos and explanation. This seems very clear to me after all these years of lookng at that block of stone and scratching my head wondering what to do. The bevel on your knives comes out so clearly on the photos. --Joy

Thanks for the photos, SushiGaijin.

I have been tempted to buy a stone for a long while, although the variety available and not being sure exactly how to use them has prevented me from doing so.

Is there any particular reason for your using an oil-stone over water stones?

Also you mention a 20º - 25º angle between the blade and stone. How do you maintain that (other than practice), and how important is keeping a consistent angle to the sharpness longevity? Is a honing device like the one in this link (thanks nr706) worthwhile (at least it's fairly cheap)?

hi again,

i use an oilstone for a couple of reasons, none of them good. the india stone in the picture cost me 11$ at NW, and it serves my needs very well. a comparable double sided waterstone well set you back around 30-50$, and it does not do a better or worse job when it comes to kitchen use. waterstones also need to be soaked before they are used, i keep a norton 4000/8000 submerged all the time. this is much easier than soaking for two or three hours before i hone, but once in a while i have to change the water and wash everything out which is a pain in the butt. also, i have HEARD but not experienced that waterstone combos sometimes warp and split at the seam. not good. for a super polished, extra sharp edge, a waterstone IS better...however, my india stone is probably no finer than a 400 grit hone, so it is not exactly the right tool to acheive a mirror edge anyway. the 4000/8000 norton sharpens my straight razors very well, but it is much too fine for kitchen cutlery. i have seen waterstones go as high as 12000 grit, which would essentially leave a gleaming chrome finish.

the price point of oilstones becomes more attractive once you have used one for a while; as you use them, they become bowed because the hone is actually losing material where the knife abrades. a bowed hone results in dull knives. the only way to reliably straighten a bowed hone is to rub it against a like hone in an X shape, or to work it on wet/dry sandpaper that is stuck to flat glass. this technique is called lapping.

in regards to holding the angle, a guide like the one in sazerac's link should work just fine. i had a lansky pocket knife sharpening kit that was very similar, which worked great. I now do all the bevel control by hand, but having a little something to help might be good. i have seen things that clip onto the spine of the knife that you rest on the stone as you hone, that were VERY cheap ($5?). i usually just use the middle line of my thumb to guide the primary bevel.

on a side note, every really well sharpened knife has two bevels, the primary bevel and the secondary bevel. while my primary bevel is probably 18-20 degrees, i always hone the very tip of the edge to about 25 degrees. this prevents the edge from breaking or bending as the knife is used, and results in a more durable and longer lasting honing. i usually achieve the secondary bevel with two laps at the higher angle on the fine side of the hone only.

as far as sharpness, the absolute sharpest edges will be concaved, or "hollow ground." this is what bagat bros does to their knives, and possibly others around town. the edge is formed by being ground between two wheels moving in opposite directions, and forms an extremely thin, extremely sharp tip. hollow grinding is great for tools that do a very specific, very precision job, like straight razors. for a kitchen knife, it results in an edge that lasts about 10 minutes. the edge is simply too thin and sharp to last very long, and it can only be restored by being hollow ground again. i would not recommend using a sharpening tool that hollow grinds.

the second sharpest is an edge that is absolutely flat. a rounded edge or bevel will not be as sharp as a flat edge. in fact, a knife is usually considered dull once its flat bevel has been rounded by repeated steeling and use.

Gary: sorry to hear that you are honing impaired. if i can be of assistance just drop me a line. it would be a shame to see that nice new carbon job of yours go to the evil knife grinding man :-p

edit: sorry for the large pics, my resolution is so high that they look like thumbnails to me...all just a matter of scale i guess!!


Erik