WARNING: Trader Joe's Pine Nuts

I woke up this morning with a terrible taste in my mouth. I assumed that I just needed to brush my teeth, so I did, but the taste didn't go away. I had an intense bitter taste in my mouth (and I'm someone who enjoys Angostura Sours, so I am not unaccustomed to bitter things). All day my food tasted terrible but I had no idea why.

After a bit of googling tonight about bitter taste in one's mouth I stumbled upon the fact that it is often caused by pine nuts (in fact it was the highest link I came across). Many of the people complaining of these problems bought their pine nuts from Trader Joe's which (according to my bag) may have been sourced from China, Vietnam, Korea or Russia. According to the websites I've read, this bitter taste will probably get worse and remain for up to 2 weeks.

http://www.epicurious.com/articlesguide ... mouth.html
http://pinchmysalt.com/2009/05/02/pine- ... -my-mouth/

Sorry, I'm not usually one for alarmist sounding titles or posts like this, but since it's happened to me, I figured I would share.

Unfortunately, almost all pine nuts available these days around here are from China and they are in my opinion sad substitutes for the Mediterranean ones. Not only are they not especially great specimens to start with, but they are often mishandled and rancid. Rancid pine nuts leave a nasty after-taste.

It sounds as if there is something even more depressing at issue at hand with reports of weeks of bad after-taste but, that aside, even the usual Chinese pine nuts are second rate at best, in my opinion, and I've been eating pine nuts my entire life.

Antonius

Oh no!

Hi BJackson. Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I know that I've experienced this same thing a couple of times. The pine nuts that effected my taste weren't bought at Trader Joe's. I'm not a big fan of TJ's to begin with, but I don't believe you can put the phenomenon on them. All the pine nuts that I find today are harvested in China...and all of the pine nuts effect my taste the same way.

Unfortunately each time that I had this problem come forward it lasted a little over two weeks before I could eat without tasting that horrible aftertaste. It really isn't anything subtle...I love food and it was so pronounced that I simply ate the calories that I needed for that day. No pleasure at all. There is alot more on the web now than there was the first time I experienced that bitter taste. At first I didn't know what the cause was.

What I now do is stay away from pine nuts all together. yuk!

dan

Wow, this is indeed disturbing. However, to be fair to Trader Joe's, it sounds like this issue isn't limited to them...I read a few accounts of "pine mouth" occurring after eating Costco pine nuts, and a couple folks attributing the bad taste in their mouths to pine nuts from Asian grocers.

A good tip I picked from from clicking around is that the odds of being stricken with this gross-tasting affliction seem to be minimized by promptly storing a new bag of pine nuts in an air-tight, resealable bag in the freezer, as this prevents rancidity (which seems to be the most popular culprit for "pine mouth"). Fortunately, our pine nuts live in a ziploc bag somewhere in the bowels of the freezer, so hopefully we won't experience this nasty phenomenon anytime soon.

One silver lining to "pine mouth" is the potential for some weight loss as a result of all food tasting bitter & unpalatable for a couple of weeks. Huh...perhaps I should pull those Trader Joe's pine nuts out of the freezer and put them next to the stove with the bag wide open

I love pine nuts, and I'm sure the most recent bag was f Asian origin, but I've never experienced the bitter aftertaste others seem to be having. Could it be a genetic thing?

Here is another article on the phenomenon:

http://www.pinenut.com/pinenut_mouth_bi ... taste.html

What is funny about the site is while they SAY that they do not carry Chinese pine nuts, you can find them elsewhere on the website.


Here are some other articles (cited at Wikipedia.org):

Mostin M. (March 2001). "Taste disturbances after pine nut ingestion". Eur J Emerg Med. (Belgian Poison Centre) 8 (1): 76. doi:10.1097/00063110-200103000-00036. http://www.euro-emergencymed.com/pt/re/ ... -00036.htm. Retrieved 2008-02-09.

Christopher Middleton (May 2009). "Pine mouth puzzle: Why do these nuts leave you with a bitter taste?". Daily Mail. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... taste.html. Retrieved 2009-09-01.



There are plenty of sources for New Mexico pine nuts on the internet.

I didn't mean to imply it was confined to Trader Joe's, just that there were many reports of Trader Joe's causing an issue, and it seemed to me that the % of reports was higher than TJ % of overall business in the market.

I had just purchased the offending nuts the day that I used them in my Salmon Florentine I made.

I'm also a bit bitter (haha, get it? ) because tonight is my celebration dinner for a promotion I just got. I think I am going to cancel.

jlawrence01 wrote: There are plenty of sources for New Mexico pine nuts on the internet.

Thanks, J - this was something I was going to ask/google about...

[quote="Mhays"][quote="jlawrence01"] There are plenty of sources for New Mexico pine nuts on the internet.[/quote]
Thanks, J - this was something I was going to ask/google about...[/quote]

Being in Las Cruces now I was about to say the same thing. Every weekend there is a pickup truck that sells
them in front of the local Lottaburger.

Thanks for starting this thread, bjackson. I had no idea. I've often experienced the bitterness but never lasting more than a few hours. I just always assumed that it was because I--almost without fail--burn pine nuts when I'm toasting them; I assumed the bitterness was just burnt nut flavor.

happy_stomach wrote:Thanks for starting this thread, bjackson. I had no idea. I've often experienced the bitterness but never lasting more than a few hours. I just always assumed that it was because I--almost without fail--burn pine nuts when I'm toasting them; I assumed the bitterness was just burnt nut flavor.

The underlying question in my mind is whether the offending pine nuts have been adulterated. At this point, there is NO evidence of that. HOWEVER, it is possible that the problem occurs during processing.

It could be another food like cilantro that affects people in very different ways.

Personally, I would prefer to support the New Mexican farmers.

This is strange. I have been using pine nuts every summer for many years when I prepare a pesto sauce, but never experienced that bitter taste. Of course many times I have purchased cheap pine nuts of unknown origin and often had to throw them away because they were already rancid. I took the habit, since I discovered the Trader Joe's PN a couple of years ago of keeping them in a Tuperwave-type container in my fridge. But they turned bad anyway after a few months.
This thread had convinced me. From now on I will from use walnuts instead of pine nuts when I make a pistou (pesto in Provençal French)

alain40 wrote:This is strange. I have been using pine nuts every summer for many years when I prepare a pesto sauce, but never experienced that bitter taste. Of course many times I have purchased cheap pine nuts of unknown origin and often had to throw them away because they were already rancid. I took the habit, since I discovered the Trader Joe's PN a couple of years ago of keeping them in a Tuperwave-type container in my fridge. But they turned bad anyway after a few months.
This thread had convinced me. From now on I will from use walnuts instead of pine nuts when I make a pistou (pesto in Provençal French)

I agree with those posting earlier--the freezer is definitely the way to go (they can still go bad in the fridge) and a quick test before freezing is evidently necessary too, even with new bags...

I've bought TJ's pine nuts for many years and tend to use them seasonally, at holidays and in the late sumer to make batches of pesto. I always keep the nuts frozen and have never had a problem.

Another option besides New Mexico are Mediterranean grown nuts, which are available on line but are significantly more expensive than the Asian ones.

Hi all,

I know for me that the bitter taste wasn't immediate when eating the pine nuts. This was something that developed and stayed for weeks. I first had this happen to me about two years ago. I was doing some gardening and thought I didn't wash my hands enough after using an organic fertilizer. I would eat pine nuts quite often before this and never had a problem. Also storage methods and age of the pine nuts doesn't seem to effect if I get the bitter taste or not. This, oddly, isn't something that's associated directly with the taste of the nuts.

It really is quite odd. Like I said, I don't get the bitterness when eating the pine nuts themselves (like some people find cilantro objectionable) The bitter taste develops later and simply will not go away with any cleansing attempts. If I eat anything...absolutly anything the bitter taste is quite prominent when eating any food.

Like I said..each time this lasted over two weeks before I couldn't eat anything without having a horrible taste in my mouth. Yuk! This conversation is leaving a bad taste in my mouth

I'll keep my eyes open for pine nuts from other locations...and I do wonder if this is a genetic thing. But I really miss pesto!

dan

Hi,

I'm not a heavy user of pine nuts. I bought a bag at Costco a few years ago, which I keep in the freezer. I'm halfway through it without any hint of rancidity.

I did have sesame seeds I kept in the freezer, too. Took them out and forgot to return them. When I came upon them sometime later on a shelf, they had turned rancid.

Regards,

I'm really interested to see if the problematic pine nuts affect everyone the same way, or only some people. I think I'd actually be willing to temporarily sacrifice my taste buds by eating an handful of a known offending batch, just to find out.

jlawrence01 wrote:The underlying question in my mind is whether the offending pine nuts have been adulterated.

How could one adulterate a pine nut? Are you suggesting that another type of similar-looking nut could be substituted for it?

=R=

Khaopaat wrote:I'm really interested to see if the problematic pine nuts affect everyone the same way, or only some people. I think I'd actually be willing to temporarily sacrifice my taste buds by eating an handful of a known offending batch, just to find out.

In my case...I know that not everyone was/is effected like I am. I would make different dishes using pine nuts at work and at home. Of the 25 other people that ate the same pine nuts only two people were effected like this, myself and one other gentlemen.



dan

Khaopaat wrote:I'm really interested to see if the problematic pine nuts affect everyone the same way, or only some people. I think I'd actually be willing to temporarily sacrifice my taste buds by eating an handful of a known offending batch, just to find out.

According to the daily mail article quoted above

'Just as caffeine increases some people's heart rate more than others, some people may be susceptible to these oils, and some not.'

It seems that research on this topic is very limited. I have to wonder how it is that a food can impact a person's taste buds for a couple weeks. Is this the only example or are there others? And I'm also curious as to why so many people have never heard about this.

How could one adulterate a pine nut? Are you suggesting that another type of similar-looking nut could be substituted for it?

I think the adulteration would more likely be some sort of insecticidal spray or bath.

This is why I buy pine nuts only from Whole Foods or other places that sell them in bulk. That way I can taste a couple before purchasing. They're expensive, and become rancid more quickly than other nuts. I simply don't buy them if I can't taste them first.

rickster wrote:

How could one adulterate a pine nut? Are you suggesting that another type of similar-looking nut could be substituted for it?

I think the adulteration would more likely be some sort of insecticidal spray or bath.

Sorry to go all 'shop-talk' on you but I work in the food industry and technically speaking, that's not adulteration. That would be a pesticide residue issue. Adulteration generally has to do with intentionally misrepresenting or mislabeling ingredients. That's why in the case of a nut, it would be very hard to do.

=R=

Kennyz wrote:This is why I buy pine nuts only from Whole Foods or other places that sell them in bulk. That way I can taste a couple before purchasing. They're expensive, and become rancid more quickly than other nuts. I simply don't buy them if I can't taste them first.

But if you look at my experiences and the experience of many of the others, in some of the other links above, the pine nuts are not rancid. The pine nuts also have no off taste when your eating them. The bitter aftertaste develops some time after eating the pine nuts and shows up in other foods for day.

Part of what made it so difficult to link my bitter aftertaste with a cause is because the nuts weren't rancid...and had no bad taste. It was many hours later in the day before I started to have symptoms show up. If you were a person that has a propensity to get "pine mouth" tasting your pine nuts before purchasing would do nothing to tip you off if those nuts would give you the bitter aftertaste several hours later.

I wonder if this could be something with a different variety of pine nut than we've had in the past. Could it be a different hybrid variety? i don't know...but there's some reason.


dan

Interesting post. I've never tried pine nuts from T. Joe's, but I did buy some Sunday. Now, I think I will return them. I haven't tried them, but they are good about returns (even if you've tried the product). I haven't tried these, but I after this post, I'll look for a less problematic nut.

rickster wrote:

How could one adulterate a pine nut? Are you suggesting that another type of similar-looking nut could be substituted for it?

I think the adulteration would more likely be some sort of insecticidal spray or bath.

In the article I referenced above, the European authorities started testing teh offending pine nuts for insecticides or other chemicals that could potentially contaminate the nuts. As stated, nothing was found.

jlawrence01 wrote:

rickster wrote:

How could one adulterate a pine nut? Are you suggesting that another type of similar-looking nut could be substituted for it?

I think the adulteration would more likely be some sort of insecticidal spray or bath.

In the article I referenced above, the European authorities started testing teh offending pine nuts for insecticides or other chemicals that could potentially contaminate the nuts. As stated, nothing was found.

That wouldn't really constitute adulteration, per se (which is why I was confused), so thank you, for the clarification.

=R=

The Trader Joe's in Oak Park pulled all pine nuts last summer when this was first mentioned, and then started restocking them towards the end of the year, telling me that they were safe now. I've been through several bags with no ill effect (I usually buy the pre-toasted, though that may sound like sacrilege to some).

Antonius wrote:Unfortunately, almost all pine nuts available these days around here are from China and they are in my opinion sad substitutes for the Mediterranean ones. Not only are they not especially great specimens to start with, but they are often mishandled and rancid. Rancid pine nuts leave a nasty after-taste.

It sounds as if there is something even more depressing at issue at hand with reports of weeks of bad after-taste but, that aside, even the usual Chinese pine nuts are second rate at best, in my opinion, and I've been eating pine nuts my entire life.

Antonius

I've mentioned this before, but the best pine nuts I ever had in my life were in Buryatia on the Mongolian border. We collected the cones from the trees and toasted them in a cast iron pan on a campfire; after the charred petals were removed the warm, oily kernels came out easily. It was an experience very analogous to making campfire popcorn in Wisconsin. I can think of few foods more resonant or delicious than those pine nuts!

I think that if we are going to get picky on terms, I will start going to bed earlier ...

jlawrence01 wrote:I think that if we are going to get picky on terms, I will start going to bed earlier ...

LOL. I didn't mean to be pedantic. I was genuinely confused.

=R=