Basic Point:
Within Mexican cuisine,
birria is regarded as a form of
barbacoa, a status which reflects the fact that
birria shares the same basic cooking method used to prepare
barbacoa: these dishes are, to use Bayless’ term, moist roasted:
Birria is not braised and the primary association of
barbacoa in Mexican cuisine is not with dry roasting.
*****
Antonius wrote:For those who haven't had this dish or don't know anything of it, it is goat (chivo) or mutton (borrego) cooked by roughly the same method as is used in making barbacoa, that is, at least traditionally, baked in an underground pit or otherwise in a very tightly sealed vessel. Bayless refers to this method as "moist roasting." [emphasis added]
extramsg wrote:My understanding is that barbacoa is traditionally roasted (although wrapped in leaves) whereas birria is traditionlly braised. (And, of course, there's also the barbacoa which is a head that's steamed.)
My understanding of the relationship between
barbacoa and
birria is that traditionally they do indeed involve roughly the selfsame cooking method and, moreover, that
to a degree the two terms can be seen as different regional names for analogous (though not identical) dishes. This last point needs to be qualified in the above manner because there are variations along several parameters which do not wholly conform to a simple and neat division between
barbacoa on the one hand and
birria on the other. Let me elaborate on this point:
Regarding Mexican cuisine(s) as a whole, one can with justification say that
birria is a term used in (roughly speaking) West-Central Mexico that refers to a style of meat preparation more generally known across the country as
barbacoa; in other words,
birria is the regional name for a form of
barbacoa that is popular in West-Central Mexico. This term “West-Central Mexico” I happily borrow from Rick Bayless (1987: 22), who uses it as the appellation for one of six basic culinary regions into which he divides Mexico; his divisions are quite well considered (see the footnote, p. 22-3, and the map, p.24) and to my mind highly useful.
In specific connexion to the relationship between
barbacoa and
birria, Bayless (1987) states the following:
R. Bayless wrote: (p. 240-1) “...[K]id plays a role as well in barbacoa, pit cooked meat that has been wrapped in aromatic leaves and set on a rack over simmering broth. In Central Mexico, large open-air restaurants still cook maguey-wrapped lamb in brick pits and serve it with a salsa borracha of pasilla peppers and pulque... But in most areas , the method has evolved away from the pit: In the West-Central states, lamb or kid is chile-marinated and slow-roasted on a rack in a sealed container (birria they call it)...”
(p. 256) “Birria is the West-central cousin of the Central barbacoa –– the special-occasion, pit-cooked lamb in maguey ‘leaves’. And for the most flavourful version of birria, lamb or goat is spread with chile paste and baked tightly covered to roast amd steam in its juices...
While my understanding of the relationship between
barbacoa and
birria has been in part informed by Bayless’ comments on the subject, I also based my comments in the original post on information gathered from the reading of a wide number of sources in Spanish. From reading of recipes for various dishes called either
barbacoa or
birria, it has become clear to me that both names can involve pit-roasting or roasting in a sealed vessel
on a rack and out of direct contact with any liquid present. To my mind, the requirement that the meat be out of contact with any liquid renders the term “braising” inappropriate as a description of the basic cooking method involved in preparing
barbacoa and
birria. Note too that the use of maguey leaves is found in recipes bearing both names but also is left out of others. For example, a recipe we have for
birria de chivo y de res from the State of Nayarit uses only a chile paste rub and no maguey leaves (so too Bayless’ recipe for
birria de chivo o de carnero (1987: 256-7)), whereas recipes for the classic
birria estilo Jalisco generally include the use of maguey.
To further support my claim that
birria “is goat (chivo) or mutton (borrego) cooked by roughly the same method as is used in making barbacoa” I call attention to the following citations:
_______________________________________
http://www.mexgrocer.com/glossary.htmlBarbacoa: Meat cooked in an underground pit, usually wrapped in banana or agave leaves.
Birria Jalisco's barbacoa specialty. Usually made from lamb or goat, or a combination of both._______________________________________
http://www.gestialba.com/public/recetas ... astb01.htmBirria. Especialmente en Jalisco, birria es una especie de barbacoa de chivo, borrego o puerco. Se cocina a vapor, y para ello hay dos métodos. uno, poner hojas de maguey y en la parte inferior de la olla para que el líquido no toque la carne; y el otro, utilizar una rejilla en la olla con el mismo objeto._______________________________________
http://www.pulsoslp.com.mx/Impulso/VerA ... &NP=8&rsu=La barbacoa es eso, un sistema de cocción en el que la carne no tiene contacto directo con el fuego, sólo con el calor de la tierra, sin mezclar líquido alguno que pueda hacerle perder parte de su sustancia y sabor...
...La birria, uno de los platillos más populares en Jalisco, también está hecha con barbacoa de borrego o chivo servida en un caldo de chile y jitomate._______________________________________
So then, does this mean I think
barbacoa and
birria are different names for the same thing or that I think they are prepared in exactly the same way? No.
Birria, especially in the very famous style of Jalisco, is cooked in the presence of liquid (but not braised!) and the liquid is ultimately turned into a savoury broth (Spanish
consomé) which is then typically (though not necessarily) served with the meat. The greater quantity of liquid present in the roasting pit (or vessel) and the serving of the mean
in brodo is not characteristic of many or most recipes or regional varieties of
barbacoa BUT there are, I believe, regional “
barbacoas” which do involve such broth and, though at the moment, I can’t remember where I’ve seen such a recipe (perhaps it was one from Aguascalientes), I did just come across the following passage from Diana Kennedy’s
Recipes from the regional Cooks of Mexico (1978: 118-9):
Diana Kennedy wrote:Meat cooked en barbacoa is Sunday food in Mexico, and varies tremendously from region to region. The word barbacoa refers to pit barbecuing; meat cooked on stakes over a wood fire is called carne asada al pastor... There are specialists who dedicate themselves to this pit barbequing, as it takes a great deal of preparation and long cooking. Perhaps the most popularly known barbacoa is that of central Mexico –– the states of Hidalgo, Tlaxcala, and Mexico –– where the unseasoned meat, usually mutton, is cooked in a pit lined with maguey leaves... [b]A metal pan is placed under the meat to collect the juices, which are served separately in small cups as consomé de barbacoa; thick, rich, and tasty, this is almost the best part.
Quite obviously, this dish of central Mexico, despite various differences of details, is in all basic ways prepared like the famous
birria of Jalisco in West-Central Mexico.
To sum up:
barbacoa and
birria both involve roasting in a tightly closed space, either in a pit or a sealed vessel. Both may involve the wrapping of the meat in maguey leaves.
Birria is, however, generally roasted in the presence of a certain quantity of liquid which serves as the basis of a broth with which the meat is served.
Barbacoa, it seems to me, typically involves the presence of some liquid (often just water, for the moist element of the moist roasting) and may be (regionally) but is not necessarily accompanied by a broth. I would then suggest that these terms can be regarded in the following semantic continuum:
1
*“barbacoa” = dry roasting (aberrant or marginal usage)2
“barbacoa” = moist roasting, sometimes with broth (normal usage)3
“birria” = moist roasting, typically with broth (normal usage)4
*“birria” = braising? (aberrant or marginal usage)In terms of what is common around Chicagoland, I think one can usually expect
barbacoa here to be beef, especially beef head, and to be served with a sauce, whereas
birria here is typically mutton or goat and generally –– though not necessarily –– served in broth.
***
extramsg wrote:Do you know how they specifically made it there. The birria I had in Chicago was quite soupy like the birria of Guadalajara. Here in Oregon, birria is often soupy, but sometimes seems slow roasted. I think this is often the case at Michoacano restaurants. (We seem highest in Michoacanos.) This is birria de chivo on a huarache at a place here in greater Portland:
Vital Information wrote:I agree that barbacoa and birria a related but slightly different products. Barbacoa is usually served *almost* dry, that is the meat is moist from the cooking but not otherwise served in liquid. Birria seems to be served in a little to a lot of liquid.
Except:
Years ago (so it seems) GWiv and I spotted this place near Western and 47th. It seems one of the great un-discovered spots in Chicago, because after snapping pics, it seems that no one has ever returned. Gary and I did not eat there at the time, we were on a scouting mission.
I don’t know exactly how Reyes de Ocotlán cooks its meat but I would guess it is not in an underground pit. Then again, I’ve never seen the backyard behind the building...
With regard to the above comments, it seems to me that there is confusion between the cooking process itself and the method of serving.
Birria makers around here offer bowls of broth with meat in them but one can also buy just the “moist roasted” meat separately from the broth, or buy tacos made of the meat as a snack, without indulging in the brothy element.
*****
Finally, for clarity’s sake, I call attention to a not uncommon problem with small Mexican restaurants in Chicagoland...
extramsg wrote:btw, I went to this Birrieria while in Chicago and thought it just decent. I like the stuff at Maxwell better:
Note that the place to which extramsg refers, Birrieria (Riveras) Ocotlán (on Cermak, west of Western, no?), is (to my knowledge) in no way affiliated with the restaurant I visited, Birrieria Reyes de Ocotlán. Ocotlán is a large town and it would not be especially surprising that there might be two unrelated
birrierias owned by immigrants from there here in Chicago. I just thought that should be said explicitly, since both restaurants’ names feature most prominently the toponym “Ocotlán.” Note too that I don't mean to imply extramsg confused the two places, just that the casual reader of this thread may do so, focussing just on the word "Ocotlán."
I have not had the
birria at the Maxwell Street market and, judging from respected opinions voiced on this board, surmise that it is very good and perhaps better than that of Reyes de Ocotlán. But I would be surprised if future comparisons all agreed that it was vastly superior, for the quality of product of the little 18th Street restaurant is quite high. In addition, Reyes de Ocotlán’s product is available seven days a week in an in-door setting, rendering
birria pleasure more readily and, depending on ambient weather conditions or diners’ infirmities, more comfortably available.
Antonius
Alle Nerven exzitiert von dem gewürzten Wein -- Anwandlung von Todesahndungen -- Doppeltgänger --
- aus dem Tagebuch E.T.A. Hoffmanns, 6. Januar 1804.
________
Na sir is na seachain an cath.