TomInSkokie wrote:

Cathy2 wrote:The woman has ambitions of doing television. This kind of stuff is not going to help her reach her goal. I don't think her twittering is doing her any favors.

Perhaps she could do something with Gordon Ramsay.

Natalina insults her customers. I haven't seen Gordon cross that line ... though I haven't seen everything he does.

Regards,

I continue to be amazed that apparently successful businesses go out of their way to irritate/annoy potential customers, whether it is by not returning phone calls, keeping odd hours, making disparaging comments about certain ethnic groups, or not providing ketchup for hot dogs.

The great thing about running your own business is you can do whatever the hell you want, common courtesy be damned!

Personally, I don't need her BS or her cannoli.

teatpuller wrote:I continue to be amazed that apparently successful businesses go out of their way to irritate/annoy potential customers, whether it is by not returning phone calls, keeping odd hours, making disparaging comments about certain ethnic groups, or not providing ketchup for hot dogs.

Which of these did she do?

In general, I'm of the same mind as Ronnie: I have a hard time patronizing an establishment that treats customers or the public poorly. I am not one of those who says the food is all that matters; service be damned. I just don't think PN falls in that category. I've only been there a few times and they don't know me at all, but I've always been treated like a valued customer. Her stuff is expensive, but I've never found comparable products in Chicago. $7 may be expensive for a cannoli, but I'd pay more at a restaurant for a lower-quality product. She fries her shells right there and fills them to order. Some of the cookies and biscotti are frankly not worth it to me, but there are plenty of other things that are.

While a $7 PN cannolo is cheaper than a flight to Boston, I think it's worth noting that Modern Pastry - makers of the best cannoli this side of the Atlantic - charges $3.

Modern Pastry
257 Hanover Street
(617)523-3783

Darren72 wrote:Which of these did she do?

March 18th tweet. yes i know that's not an ethnicity exactly, but that other thing is not allowed to be mentioned here.

Fair enough.

While I am certainly having fun with her tweets myself, I do think dissecting the non-food-related contents of a private Twitter account - even when Natalie herself is blurring the line - goes a bit beyond bringing other content in for comment (like we do all the time, Chicago Mag lists, Reader articles, TV shows). I'm no longtime patron of PN or friend of NZ, but at least her tweets are not taking our forum or individual posters to task by name (yet), while we (myself included) are examining her idiosyncrasies in personal detail.

This kind of attention is certainly one goal of the Twitterverse; I just have the individual opinion that for any individual Twitter analysis of food personalities we bring onto the site, we should be give a thought to our own Tweets and Facebook status updates dragged across the screen as well. If we're going down this road, it all seems fair game. There is already a lot of spillover between Twitter and LTH, and the fun side of the interplay is much more entertaining and valuable than the spew side.

Santander wrote:...I do think dissecting the non-food-related contents of a private Twitter account - even when Natalie herself is blurring the line - goes a bit beyond...

But her tweets are - in the vast majority of cases - food related. The comments about sodomy, ethnicity, and sex - for example - are all within the context of food-focused tweets.

Kennyz wrote:While a $7 PN cannolo is cheaper than a flight to Boston, I think it's worth noting that Modern Pastry - makers of the best cannoli this side of the Atlantic - charges $3.

Modern Pastry
257 Hanover Street
(617)523-3783

Good point. I'm pretty sure everything you see here, coffee included was about six bucks at Modern Pastry:



It was all excellent.

Best,
Michael

As something of an outside observer (with no skin in the game, so to speak), I find her "tweets"...um...interesting. I am not into Twitter, but her posts seem extremely candid and over the top (perhaps, in some circles, Twitter simply provides a forum in which to say over the top things for whoever will listen). As a somewhat rotund, heterosexual foodie, I honestly can say that I would feel somewhat awkward patronizing PN after reading what's "on her mind", as it were. I'm not a public relations consultant, but I'm thinking that these tweets aren't going to do a lot for her image in the community. But, I doubt that she cares or she wouldn't be posting this stuff.

Ron A. noted:

I'm not a public relations consultant, but I'm thinking that these tweets aren't going to do a lot for her image in the community. But, I doubt that she cares or she wouldn't be posting this stuff.

Yup. Her posts seem to be the Twitter equivalent of drunk dialing.

Santander wrote:we should be give a thought to our own Tweets and Facebook status updates dragged across the screen as well. If we're going down this road, it all seems fair game.

Fair enough. Analyze away: @khaopaat

Ron A. wrote:As a somewhat rotund, heterosexual foodie, I honestly can say that I would feel somewhat awkward patronizing PN after reading what's "on her mind", as it were.

This.

Many folks have mentioned that she's always been friendly, welcoming, etc. when they've patronized her shop. But after reading her tweets, I wouldn't be able to shake the feeling that, as she's handing me a pastry with a smile, she's really thinking, "here ya go, fatso. Why don't you get something for your unsatisfied wife while you're at it" while imagining herself spitting at me.

Khaopaat wrote:Many folks have mentioned that she's always been friendly, welcoming, etc. when they've patronized her shop. But after reading her tweets, I wouldn't be able to shake the feeling that, as she's handing me a pastry with a smile, she's really thinking, "here ya go, fatso. Why don't you get something for your unsatisfied wife while you're at it" while imagining herself spitting at me.

Exactly.

Khaopaat wrote:Many folks have mentioned that she's always been friendly, welcoming, etc. when they've patronized her shop. But after reading her tweets, I wouldn't be able to shake the feeling that, as she's handing me a pastry with a smile, she's really thinking, "here ya go, fatso. Why don't you get something for your unsatisfied wife while you're at it" while imagining herself spitting at me.

And your presumed other partners. Just don't be surprised when you read about this on Google Wave.

Someone should put together a progressive dinner
of Great Lake for pizza and Pasticceria Natalina
for dessert; call it a Masochist's Crawl!

How did tis thread go from a love-fest to a call to tar and feather the women? Because she tweets her strong opinions? I think a lot of her points are valid though indelicately presented.

I've tasted her goods and they are excellent...so since she can "walk the walk" she's earned the right to "talk the talk". If you don't like her attitude don't buy her pastries.

As for pricing, her comments about people's obession with cheap food are dead on. In the great cities of Europe (Paris, Vienna, Florence, etc.) one expects to pay the equivalent of $7 to $10 for a great pastry and happily does so.

I say bravo Natalina!

Beauner wrote:How did tis thread go from a love-fest to a call to tar and feather the women? Because she tweets her strong opinions? I think a lot of her points are valid though indelicately presented.

I've tasted her goods and they are excellent...so since she can "walk the walk" she's earned the right to "talk the talk". If you don't like her attitude don't buy her pastries.

I cannot comment on the quality of her pastries...I'm sure that they are excellent. I only was making an observation that she's not going to win any friends among overweight foodies with those kinds of bizarre rants. Considering that overweight foodies presumably buy a lot of pastries, this doesn't seem like good business.

Beauner wrote:As for pricing, her comments about people's obession with cheap food are dead on. In the great cities of Europe (Paris, Vienna, Florence, etc.) one expects to pay the equivalent of $7 to $10 for a great pastry and happily does so.

Not for a cannolo. No one in Paris, Vienna, Florence or any other irrelevant city you can come up with would be happy to pay $7 for a cannolo. Cannoli are street food. They're meant for the masses. Rich and poor alike are supposed to happily be able to enjoy as many cannoli as they want. Natalie's ideas about cannoli pricing are unAmerican and unItalian. Go ahead and charge $10 for the pretty little colorful "artisan" thingies, but not a cannolo for god's sake.

Beauner wrote:How did tis thread go from a love-fest to a call to tar and feather the women? Because she tweets her strong opinions? I think a lot of her points are valid though indelicately presented.

I know, right?

After all, if eating's your hobby, u can no longer see your own toes, & can't even fuck well, ur not a foodie - just an insatiable glutton.

Or a can of Campbell's? I wonder how many of you even know when you're being served factory-finished food disguised as "house made."

Personally, I'd prefer my pastry with a bit less judging.

Her latest tweet reeks of arrogance as usual. Personally, I couldn't care less about her attitude:

Today, Pasticceria Natalina is happy to launch bread. REAL. ARTISAN. BREAD. (with the emphasis on the TRUE meaning of artisan.) check it out

What I do care for is whether or not the new breads are any good. Has anyone tried it? What types of bread do they have?

kanin wrote:What I do care for is whether or not the new breads are any good. Has anyone tried it? What types of bread do they have?

It's good. I went with whole wheat sourdough. They also had some sort of ciabatta on offer as well as an olive oil/sea salt variant.

Whole wheat sourdough

Plump and round, but not so big as to block the view of your canollo.

Certainly not the best bread I've ever had, and at least 2X the price of a great loaf in some of the worlds better bakeries (this was $5 for a 6" round loaf). Good chew, nice sour flavor, crispy crust. In a town devoid of good bread options, I'll likely be back.

I was told it'll be a regular thing Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

-Dan

I'd be lying if I said I'd never go to her store again; her pastries are excellent. Her tweets leave a bad taste in my mouth, however, and I definitely tend to judge a place holistically --food then service being most important to me... and while I don't actively seek out an understanding of the personalities of the proprietors of the places I like to eat -- if I do learn of some negative feedback about the way the owner conducts himself or herself-- or in this case some obnoxious tweets themselves-- I have to say that that information would enter into my (revised) view of the place and the proprietor -- and so is the case for me with this shop.

I'm not sure anyone is suggesting she is not entitled to her opinion. That it's ill advised of her to shout it to everyone and the LIbrary of Congress? That's been said. That people might not patronize her shop? That's been said.

But I'm not reading that anyone wants to tar and feather the girl. I'm reading sadness.

Aren't we sad when someone we respected comes out with a racist, or anti-semitic or homophobic opinion? Well, lots of us are also sad when someone whose work we respect comes out with a comment disparaging overweight people.

Kennyz wrote:

Beauner wrote:As for pricing, her comments about people's obession with cheap food are dead on. In the great cities of Europe (Paris, Vienna, Florence, etc.) one expects to pay the equivalent of $7 to $10 for a great pastry and happily does so.

Not for a cannolo.

Or much else. Those prices, by Italian standards, are extremely high.

About 3 years ago, I visited many of the better bakeries and pasticcerias in Florence, Bologna, Vienna, and Rome. I'd say her prices are about double what someone on the streets of those cities can expect to pay (and double what she used to charge).

To wit:



This picture was taken at one of the more popular pasticceria in Bologna, Paolo Atti & Figli. If you could zoom in, you'd see most prices are by weight and top out at about €24/kg, which works out to about $15/lb in today's exchange rate. That was the most expensive shop we were in. Most individual pastries were in the €3-€5 range ($4-$7) and the high end was rare and only in the really tawny areas.

Although I'm not really a fan of Pasticceria Natalina, I would like to point out that on my few visits there Nick and Natalie have been unfailingly pleasant. I mean, it's not like she's sitting in the store ranting at customers. I think folks should keep in mind that sometimes perfectly nice people turn into obnoxious loudmouths when sitting behind a keyboard and a cloak of (relative) anonymity. Now of course I myself cannot relate to that in any way, but apparently it has been known to happen. It would seem to me that if you enjoy her pastry and can stomach the asking price (which seems to me to be the real crux of the matter), whatever loony and juvenile stuff Natalie posts to blow off steam should not detract from your enjoyment. Although I realize that everyone's threshold is different.

eatchicago wrote:

Kennyz wrote:

Beauner wrote:As for pricing, her comments about people's obession with cheap food are dead on. In the great cities of Europe (Paris, Vienna, Florence, etc.) one expects to pay the equivalent of $7 to $10 for a great pastry and happily does so.

Not for a cannolo.

Or much else. Those prices, by Italian standards, are extremely high.

About 3 years ago, I visited many of the better bakeries and pasticcerias in Florence, Bologna, Vienna, and Rome. I'd say her prices are about double what someone on the streets of those cities can expect to pay (and double what she used to charge).

To wit:



This picture was taken at one of the more popular pasticceria in Bologna, Paolo Atti & Figli. If you could zoom in, you'd see most prices are by weight and top out at about €24/kg, which works out to about $15/lb in today's exchange rate. That was the most expensive shop we were in. Most individual pastries were in the €3-€5 range ($4-$7) and the high end was rare and only in the really tawny areas.

One of the best pastries I've ever had, at a highly respected bakery in a very expensive Italian city:

I have no doubt that I'll be shouted down but this thread (there have been others, such as the lengthy me-too posts on the Great Lake thread at one point or much of the Sandra Lee thread) has become a perfect example of what LTH is not all about. As the logo states, LTH are a culinary chat site. I've got no problem with Kennyz's post that started us off. He was noting, and complaining, about the price of an item. And it quickly devolved into a me-too fest about how [fill in the adjective] Natalie's tweets are. I thought this thread was devoted to PN's food. Is it really so hard to separate her tweets from her business? Just because she blurs the line doesn't mean we need to follow. If you're offended by her tweets and her prices--and I'm not taking a position here because I'm uncertain about my own reaction--then don't go. Why do so many people feel it incumbent on them to slam her for her tweets? And yes, I am aware that she has her defenders and that others have posted pro, con, and sideways, on the issue of her tweets. My point--fully acknowledging anyone's right to feel however he or she wishes--why is it necessary to post about her tweets on this thread? Or on this board? This is a "CULINARY chat site." Having been swatted down by the mods--as was their right--when I posted something once that was non-food related, I'm baffled. And the argument that that portion of the discussion is food-related is bogus. Only with the recent turn in the thread comparing PN's prices to those elsewhere have we begun to get back on track. Much of the past page and a half or two depresses me. There are far too many things to list about LTH that I love and value, but one of the things that depresses me most is the me-too, what-are-we-bashing-today attitude that surfaces from time to time.

(And yes, I thought about posting this on the Site Chat forum but it wouldn't be seen by most of the people in this thread. I've got no problem if the moderators think it belongs there and move it. Though if that's done, I think that the posts to which it relates ought to go with it.)

Amen, Gypsy Boy. Amen.

No matter what you think of the woman and and her point of view -- she has a right to express it and flagellating her for it on a food forum seems inappropriate. And kind of icky with a nice slab of mob mentality too. It's not what I signed on for when I found LTHForum.

And I doubt anyone could really say that her product isn't excellent..if not often impeccable (sorry...i've got the Project Runway vocab in my head!). What she chooses to charge for it is a perfectly valid discussion point. What she thinks when she hands you the package -- isn't.

Have a nice day.

earthlydesire wrote:No matter what you think of the woman and and her point of view -- she has a right to express it and flagellating her for it on a food forum seems inappropriate.

Don't others also have the right to express their points of view?

Are her tweets really so off-topic? She uses Twitter as a communication channel for her business (e.g., posts about offering artisan bread) -- as do many other restaurant owners and operators. When we discuss things on this forum, we're not focused solely on the taste or the price of the food, are we? Isn't it fair game to analyze the whole picture -- e.g., service -- or in this case, tweets? Eating out and shopping for food are partly experiential, right? Aren't tweets part of that?