The economics of the growler

Perhaps someone more intensely familiar with the inner workings of the beer industry can help me with this conundrum.

For a number of reasons, I like the idea of buying growlers of beer from local breweries. A number of brewpubs and micro-breweries around town offer growler fills (a 1/2 gallon jug that you bring in) for anywhere from $10-$15, provided that you bring in your own jug. Most places will sell you the jug for a few bucks.

Here's a general breakdown of the retail costs:

--The average six-pack of bottles from a good local brewery is probably about $9, give or take. That's 72oz of beer at about 12.5cents per ounce, or $1.50 per beer.

--The average 22oz specialty bottle runs around $7.50 or so, I'd say. These vary in price (some 3Floyd's varieties can go up to $15). At $7.50 for 22oz, that's 3x the price of the six pack bottles, or $4.08 per 12-oz beer.

--Growler availability is usually the same beer that comes in the 22oz bottles. At 64oz for $12, you're at $2.25 per 12-oz beer, almost half price, not bad, but still 50% higher than a six pack of reasonably comparable beer (sometimes available from the same brewery).

So, here's my question. Why don't we see growlers of the beer that's available in a six pack at a discount off the bottled price. Where are the $6 growlers of six pack beer?

Best,
Michael

Edited to repair minor mistake in pricing.

eatchicago wrote:
--Growler availability is usually the same beer that comes in the 22oz bottles. At 64oz for $12, you're at $2.25 per 12-oz beer, almost half price, not bad, but still 50% higher than a six pack of reasonably comparable beer (sometimes available from the same brewery).

So, here's my question. Why don't we see growlers of the beer that's available in a six pack at a discount off the bottled price. Where are the $6 growlers of six pack beer?

Best,
Michael

Edited to repair minor mistake in pricing.

I guess my first question is in relation to the bolded part above: is it? I haven't really paid attention.

Personally for me it is about getting things to take home that I cannot find in the other formats. The best example in my opinion is Piece. I like alot of what they do, but you only have two options to drink their stuff:goto the brewpub, or get a growler to go; this also goes for "tap only" beers at places like Goose Island. If I can get something in single serving bottles, that is my perfected format for drinking beer at home. Next would be bombers, generally this is an either/or usually you don't find things sold in both single servings and bombers, and then growlers. I would never buy a growler if the beer was also available in a smaller container.

I'm sure I have more to say on the topic, but I've got actual work to do, and no time to actually look at the numbers.

SSDD

Ever since the Half Acre store opened up, I've been attempting to make sense of growler pricing, but I've not had any more luck than you. You'd expect growler fills to be the most economical way to buy a brewery's products, but that isn't really the case.

Pricing at Half Acre is pretty much exactly what you illustrate- $12/growler, $9/six-pack (or I guess now that they're doing 16 oz cans, $9/4-pack), and $8/bomber. The obvious conclusion is that growler fills are only a good deal if you were getting one of the more unique beers- something that's only available in the 22 oz bottles, or something that we be bottled/canned at all. If you're filling a growler with a beer that's available in a 72 oz multipack of some sort, it's kind a rip-off.

The solution would be variable pricing on growlers, depending on which beer it's filled with. It wouldn't even be complicated...one price ($6 sounds about right, $7 would still be ok) for the 'common' beers, and another price (the current $12 seems reasonable) for the 'rarer' beers. Seems simple enough...

headcase wrote:I guess my first question is in relation to the bolded part above: is it? I haven't really paid attention.

I suppose we should separate brewpubs (selling beer that's not available retail) from breweries. At Half-Acre or Flossmoore brewery, the growler beer generally seems to be the same beer that's for sale in 22oz. I've never seen Half Acre's Over Ale available in a growler, and I wouldn't buy one when I can get more beer in the six-pack significant at a significantly cheaper price.

In the brewpub situation, this is a non-issue. If your only option is to buy it at the bar for $5/pint or in a growler for $12, then it's a no-brainer.

clogoodie wrote:The solution would be variable pricing on growlers, depending on which beer it's filled with. It wouldn't even be complicated...one price ($6 sounds about right, $7 would still be ok) for the 'common' beers, and another price (the current $12 seems reasonable) for the 'rarer' beers. Seems simple enough...

Yes, that would be ideal. I would love it if Half Acre offered one of their more basic beers for a $7 growler. I guess that's the heart of my question. Why doesn't this exist? I suppose I should ask the Half Acre people.

In my experience growlers aren't a great deal.

3 Floyds sells growlers for $13, but that's only the price of their four basic beers:
Alpha King
Gumballhead
Robert the Bruce
Pride and Joy

They often will sell growlers of Dreadnaught (which otherwise is $10 /22oz bottle) for $30. They also sometimes sell their non-bottled specialty beers for this same price.

I once bought a growler of Green Line from Goose Island because it's not bottled. I was very surprised when I was charged $22 for it.

bierz wrote:In my experience growlers aren't a great deal.

3 Floyds sells growlers for $13, but that's only the price of their four basic beers:
Alpha King
Gumballhead
Robert the Bruce
Pride and Joy

They often will sell growlers of Dreadnaught (which otherwise is $10 /22oz bottle) for $30. They also sometimes sell their non-bottled specialty beers for this same price.

I once bought a growler of Green Line from Goose Island because it's not bottled. I was very surprised when I was charged $22 for it.

I don't get how 3F can charge that when you can get all those 3F beers bottles much, much cheaper than that. Why pay up for the growler? What's the justification for paying almost double?

As for Goose Island, their growler prices are the highest around, by a wide margin. (and Green Line isn't even very good).

I've always compared growlers to pints on draft rather than bottles.

A pint of something like Ginger Twin will probably run you around 6 dollars at a bar. 4 pints of Ginger Twin will thus run you about $24 at a bar. So for the same product (draft beer), you're getting it cheaper at the source without the bar's markup.

I wouldn't call it a good value, but it's not the same as bottles.

turkob wrote:I've always compared growlers to pints on draft rather than bottles.

I'm only willing to stick to that comparison when the bar is the only available option. When a beer is available bottled (often literally for sale at the same location), I can't help but compare the price and wonder.

I believe Goose has a sliding price scale for their growlers, generally based on ABV content for their beer (I think a growler of BCS - the idea of which caused me to shudder a which, as much as I like the beer - can top out at $40 while a 4-pack of 12 oz. retails for $20 and bombers... I can't recall offhand). That being said, some of their beers are not available in growlers. I was interested in getting a growler of the Pepe Nero but it was in such limited quantities in the first place that they weren't filling growlers.

Another issue for me with growlers is that they do not keep. Sure the jugs are sealed with a plastic ring heated up to create a seal but I cannot imagine it's as fine a seal as what you get with a bottle. And once you open the growler? I hope you can get it finished off that same day/night.

As others have said, the only time I would buy a growler is if there's a beer out there that just cannot be bought otherwise and I must absolutely have more of that beer. I'm guessing it winds up being cheaper than drinking the beer at the bar. Using the Green Line as an example, 16oz. pints run $5 at Goose (I think) and you would get 4.5 pints in a growler. So you can buy a growler for $22 or drink 4.5 pints at the bar for $22.50 (pre tax/tip). Huh... not quite a deal after all now that I've math'd it out...

One other point about pricing is that you often get a credit for bringing a growler to fill. I think these top out at $2-3 and wouldn't really affect the numbers too appreciably. I'm also wary of bringing back growlers to get re-filled because I know I can't clean them very well at home and it doesn't seem to me that breweries clean a used growler before re-filling it. I might rather blow the growler credit and get a clean growler.

danimalarkey wrote:I believe Goose has a sliding price scale for their growlers, generally based on ABV content for their beer

I don't think that's how they price it. Green Line is a low (5%) ABV beer.

danimalarkey wrote:Another issue for me with growlers is that they do not keep. Sure the jugs are sealed with a plastic ring heated up to create a seal but I cannot imagine it's as fine a seal as what you get with a bottle. And once you open the growler? I hope you can get it finished off that same day/night.

The plastic ring is there for legal purposes. They can't just screw a top on something and let you walk outside with it. It has to be "sealed". As far as the shelf life, that's not an issue here for me as far as pricing. I know that I've basically got 24 hours from the time I open it, but I like to pick one up if I'm BYOing with a group or having company over.

I'm also wary of bringing back growlers to get re-filled because I know I can't clean them very well at home and it doesn't seem to me that breweries clean a used growler before re-filling it.

Rinse to remove residue.

Pour a little Chlorox and several times as much water into it. Swoosh it around.

Rinse again, multiple times if necessary, until chlorine smell is absent.

There, your bottle is sterile enough to homebrew in. Which is probably overkill for pouring an already alcoholic beverage into.

Mike G wrote:

I'm also wary of bringing back growlers to get re-filled because I know I can't clean them very well at home and it doesn't seem to me that breweries clean a used growler before re-filling it.

Rinse to remove residue.

Pour a little Chlorox and several times as much water into it. Swoosh it around.

Rinse again, multiple times if necessary, until chlorine smell is absent.

There, your bottle is sterile enough to homebrew in. Which is probably overkill for pouring an already alcoholic beverage into.

Well when you put it like that, it seems easy as anything.

One other reason for growlers, and I say this only slightly tongue-in-cheek, is that it is more environmentally friendly. If someone really doesn't want to add more bottle waste to the world, that growler could be the last beer bottle they ever buy.

Slightly off-topic, but many people consider growlers to be collectible. I once brought a growler from Minocqua (WI) Brewing into Mishawaka (IN) Brewing. A guy down the bar saw it, and offered to trade the empty Minoqua growler (for which I paid about $5) for a full Mishawaka growler. That's one way to get value out of buying a growler.

nr706 wrote:Slightly off-topic, but many people consider growlers to be collectible. I once brought a growler from Minocqua (WI) Brewing into Mishawaka (IN) Brewing. A guy down the bar saw it, and offered to trade the empty Minoqua growler (for which I paid about $5) for a full Mishawaka growler. That's one way to get value out of buying a growler.

Well, I'm strictly talking about the refill prices.

I'll shed a little light on how we at Half Acre approach things:

Calculating price per ounce and comparing apples to apples doesn't capture all the things that go into pricing our beer.

The way we package beer is a big consideration - every method of filling & package type has its own set of pros / cons, equipment struggles or benefits, market standards, etc. Some take more guys to run & kick the crap out of us, some flow a bit better and use equipment built in the last decade. Some beers are big batches, some are small batches. Sometimes we choose to eat more margin because we made a beer that's costs us way more money that it should because we really just wanted to try making it, then sometimes we up our margin a little on the next because we made that other beer, so we can continue to pay bills and brew another batch.

The pricing result might not land in a way that makes total sense, but across all packages there is a balance that keeps this odyssey on-going.

We appreciate all those folks buying our beer and allowing us to make beer for a living.

Cheers,

Gabriel
Half Acre Beer Co

eatchicago wrote:
The plastic ring is there for legal purposes.

In addition, in Illinois, a brewery/brewpub is not supposed to fill a growler unless their name is on it. Or, Goose Island is not supposed to fill a growler that says Rock Bottom (or other establishment) on it.

Ron

I'm not much into beer, I'll say up front, but I do see most of us posters here live within walking distance of a place that sells beer. A brother of mine used to live in Vermont (I'd say rural Vermont, but it's practically all rural), in a place where it was at least a 20-minute drive just to buy milk or toilet paper or put gas in the car or anything like that, much less grab a six-pack to take home. There it seemed to make more sense (economically) to keep a couple of growlers around and refill them at the brewpub that you might visit once or twice a month.

Upon further reflection, I realize the OP is asking about the economics of the growler *when the same product is available in six-pack bottles*. As I recall that was not the case where my brother lived. As far as I know, the brewpub he liked there did not sell beer for home consumption except in growlers.

Goose definitely has a sliding scale, but ABV (i.e. the amount of grain) is on par with hops (IPA) in terms of cost of production, so the fact that Green Line isn't in their lowest price range isn't utterly surprising. Even bottles of Sofie are overpriced when purchased at the actual establishment, however, so at GI, I limit myself to one-off beers. Typically I only do growlers when it'll get drunk quickly (having company over), if I really want the beer (as with a bock I had recently at Flossmoor Station), or it's a one-off, as stated. Fortunately, these three criteria often coincide for me, so I find growlers pretty economical.

HalfAcre wrote:The way we package beer is a big consideration - every method of filling & package type has its own set of pros / cons, equipment struggles or benefits, market standards, etc. Some take more guys to run & kick the crap out of us, some flow a bit better and use equipment built in the last decade. Some beers are big batches, some are small batches. Sometimes we choose to eat more margin because we made a beer that's costs us way more money that it should because we really just wanted to try making it, then sometimes we up our margin a little on the next because we made that other beer, so we can continue to pay bills and brew another batch.

The pricing result might not land in a way that makes total sense, but across all packages there is a balance that keeps this odyssey on-going.

We appreciate all those folks buying our beer and allowing us to make beer for a living.

Cheers,

Gabriel
Half Acre Beer Co

Gabriel,

Thanks for posting here. Overall, your pricing structure does make sense to me. For example, a growler of Daisy Cutter is a significant savings off of buying the same amount in 22-oz bottles. From a consumer perspective, this seems logical: I'm bringing a container directly to the producer and they're filling it up, no shipping, no special packaging, no middleman.

My key question for you is: Do you ever make growlers available of your less expensive beers like Over Ale? Since it was $9/six-pack retail (I guess you're switching to 4-pack tall-boys now) I'd love to be able to buy growlers of it at a cheaper price.

I'm really happy with what you guys do (I buy most of my growlers from you guys) and I love that we have real breweries again in the city. Keep up the good work.

Best,
Michael

Also (Gabriel, if you do respond), is it true that if I bring in an empty growler I have from Mt. Carmel brewery, I can't legally get that filled with Half Acre beer at your storefront?

If so, I'll happily buy a new growler, but I wanted to check to see if I could save any money and glass.

I recall reading on New Glarus' website that one of the reasons they did not discount the beer sold at the brewery was to avoid taking potential business away from area stores that distribute their beer. From their FAQ section:

Q: Why are the prices in your Gift Shop more than what they are in the stores?
A: We price the beer in the gift shop at our regularly suggested retail pricing... With that in mind, it is vitally important that we do not undercut the Wisconsin retailers who support our brewery with shelf space and great pricing everyday.

To that end, if you could get that $6 growler, why go to the store and pay the retailer $10? And no, I'm not suggesting that were Half Acre, for example, to start selling growlers of Over Easy for $6, six-packs across town would go untouched. Still, I doubt you'd want to give retailers any reason to stop carrying your product (I will also admit complete ignorance over how the brewery/distributor/retailer arrive at prices and I could be completely mis-guided and wrong here).

I stopped by Half Acre on Saturday to pick up some bombers of Double Daisy Cutter (a lovely, wonderful beer, btw) and saw they have a Tuesday night special -- 2 growler refills for $20. Piece offers a large pizza and a growler for $25 on Sundays (carry-out only, no toppings included in price).

Typically, for a brewer that sells via retail they don't want to/can't undercut their retailers so selling $6 growlers of their most widely distributed beers would not be advisable.

KSeecs wrote:Typically, for a brewer that sells via retail they don't want to/can't undercut their retailers so selling $6 growlers of their most widely distributed beers would not be advisable.

The $12 growlers of Gossamer and Daisy Cutter undercut the price of the retail bombers by 50%.

KSeecs wrote:Typically, for a brewer that sells via retail they don't want to/can't undercut their retailers so selling $6 growlers of their most widely distributed beers would not be advisable.

OK, it makes total sense that breweries don't want to undercut retailers, which $6/growler would do significantly, $7 would do slightly, but $8 would exactly match retail price (assuming $9 for a 72oz multipack). The current $12 price remains a fairly large premium over that number.

Now what Gabriel said...that with a static price point, their profit margins vary widely from beer to beer and kind of average out...also makes sense. But I think it only works with the limited run, one-off, special beers. The widely available via retail offerings seem like they belong in a different class.

My thinking is this- If Over Ale & Lager were $8/growler and the limited run beers were $12/$13/$14, there would definitely be days when I'd get fills of Over Ale...maybe I just want a simpler beer, or I'm low on cash, or the limited run beers don't excite me. But right now, with every beer being the same price, I'm picking one of the limited run beers every time I visit. The Over Ale & Lager aren't even options, they're completely excluded from my decision-making.

And if we assume that the retail available beers provide the biggest margin for the brewery, and things like Invasion and Big Hugs are much smaller...then my purchasing choices aren't helping average things out, because I'm only choosing from the beers that are lower profit margin. Now I'm sure there are people buying Over Ale & Lager in growlers at the current price point...but I've never considered doing so, and this thread suggests that I'm not the only one.

Anyway, I'd also like to state my appreciation for Half Acre and Gabriel's work. They're my neighborhood brewery, I love having them nearby, and I'm going to continue filling my 'Faithful Growler' card. This discussion isn't meant to single out Half Acre (their growler pricing seems to be in line with other places), but like Michael, most of my growler purchases have been from them, so those experiences are the ones that inform my opinions.

eatchicago wrote:

KSeecs wrote:Typically, for a brewer that sells via retail they don't want to/can't undercut their retailers so selling $6 growlers of their most widely distributed beers would not be advisable.

The $12 growlers of Gossamer and Daisy Cutter undercut the price of the retail bombers by 50%.

That's pretty much only because the cost of Daisy Cutter bombers was so inflated due to the beast of a bottler they have. It can only bottle 4 beers at a time and caused them a bunch of pain. Now that it's going to be canned the pricing will fall in-line with all of the other stuff.

Per Gabriel on BA a couple of months ago. http://beeradvocate.com/forum/read/2619340

Hello All-

This is Gabriel, the Conductor on the beer train that is Half Acre. So, here's the scoop:

Our 22oz bottles that we currently sell are priced as such because we bottle on a quasi-evil, 4-head filler that was designed and manufactured sometime in the middle ages, and although we've tamed this beast, it lives to torture the souls of its users. Hence the $7.99 cost, which is high, but the hops involved aren't an inexpensive endeavor either.

Our canning line ships *new* from our friends in Canada on the 12th of this month. After navigating customs it should hit us the week of the 22nd. We will install, throw down for CBC, then work out the bugs, then begin shipping cans mid to late April.

The cost for a 16oz 4-pack will be roughly $8.99 at retail. So, the savings on Daisy will be big as a result of the canning line being far less tortuous.

As far as the Double Daisy goes, anything can happen, and given enough time, it usually does.

Cheers Gentlemen-

~Your Friends on the 1/2 Acre

I've bought growlers at 3 Floyds before mainly because of guaranteed freshness of the beer. With the lack of bottle dating on their beer, there is absolutely no way that I'm going to drop $11 on a bomber of Dreadnaught because the hops fade out on that one so fast. The turnover on the bottles out here in the suburbs is just not fast enough. I would rather spend $30 on 64 oz of fresh Dreadnaught than spend $33 for 3 bombers that I have no idea if they are fresh or not.

Other than brewery only stuff though, I'm not a huge fan of growlers for the reasons already stated.