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Smokey Bears BBQ HOUSE

Smokey Bears BBQ HOUSE
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  • Smokey Bears BBQ HOUSE

    Post #1 - June 21st, 2010, 9:05 am
    Post #1 - June 21st, 2010, 9:05 am Post #1 - June 21st, 2010, 9:05 am
    It looks like this new BBQ joint just opened not to far from North Park University on Foster. Has anyone had the pleasure to try the ribs/ rib tips and report back?

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    (***screen shot from thrillist video)

    Smokey Bears BBQ HOUSE
    3312-14 W. Foster
    Chicago, IL, 60625
    773-583-2327
    Google Map of Restaurant

    Facebook Page:
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Chicago-I ... 4901339035

    Yelp Reviews:
    http://www.yelp.com/biz/smokey-bears-ba ... 1_PuuTgpkQ

    Thrillist article:
    http://www.thrillist.com/chicago/smokey ... que-house/
  • Post #2 - June 21st, 2010, 1:51 pm
    Post #2 - June 21st, 2010, 1:51 pm Post #2 - June 21st, 2010, 1:51 pm
    First day of summer, sun is out for now, new BBQ joint open in Chicago, turkey legs on the menu, dancing bears roasting a pig on the wall and $14.50 for a full slab....nice!
    I have not been there yet but like the looks of the menu and like to here that it's a family affair!
  • Post #3 - June 21st, 2010, 2:30 pm
    Post #3 - June 21st, 2010, 2:30 pm Post #3 - June 21st, 2010, 2:30 pm
    We went for the soft opening, so it's really hard to give an accurate review of their food. But, everything seemed like it was made on site. And I was impressed with the enthusiasm of the owners. They smoke everything too...nothing is boiled and grilled. I'll definitely be back...
  • Post #4 - June 21st, 2010, 7:09 pm
    Post #4 - June 21st, 2010, 7:09 pm Post #4 - June 21st, 2010, 7:09 pm
    I just had dinner at Smokey Bears, they were out of ribs, but let me take a step back.

    When I first entered the clean, nice, casual BBQ house I noticed a distinct lack of something in the room. I smelled no smoke at all. I thought it a bit odd but rationalized that perhaps they just have a monster venting system. I was greeted warmly by the owner and he informed me that they were out of ribs. I was kind of bummed but know that this can happen at a BBQ house. So instead I ordered a tips and links combo. For my sides I got fresh cut fries and baked beans. While waiting I read a small flier that said they smoker with 100% hickory, yet, as I said, I didn't smell a lick of smoke.

    I'm sorry to report that this isn't a great bbq experience. The tips were cooked to an almost meat jello consistency and there wasn't any smokey taste at all. I peeled a few tips apart looking for a smoke ring and saw none. The sauce, served in a cup on the side, was really tasty though, a nice sweet/heat mix. The hot links had a good amount of pork in them I think. I much prefer an all beef link. The flavor was OK, but that's it, just OK. The fries were nicely done and twice fried. Finally the baked beans, like the rest of the meal were just OK.

    I don't have much else to say about the place other than nice people, nice atmosphere, and just so so food. I'm sorry to report that as I live just 3/4 of mile away. I'll give them another shot in a month or so to see if things improve. Until then I'll stick to the other, better, BBQ joints in town.
    Check out my Blog. http://lessercuts.blogspot.com/
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  • Post #5 - June 21st, 2010, 10:04 pm
    Post #5 - June 21st, 2010, 10:04 pm Post #5 - June 21st, 2010, 10:04 pm
    I was also there this evening. I've got to pretty much agree with JLenart down to the part about giving them a month or so to get their sea legs, so to speak. They use a Southern Pride, so there is some wood involved in their cooking process, but I think they have a way to go before they learn how to cook using the equipment they have in house as well as to get a little better at planning for the volume of business they seem to have.
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #6 - June 22nd, 2010, 9:16 am
    Post #6 - June 22nd, 2010, 9:16 am Post #6 - June 22nd, 2010, 9:16 am
    How busy was it, if you don't mind me asking?
  • Post #7 - June 22nd, 2010, 9:19 am
    Post #7 - June 22nd, 2010, 9:19 am Post #7 - June 22nd, 2010, 9:19 am
    soltro79 wrote:How busy was it, if you don't mind me asking?


    Other than our table, there were two other patrons, so not busy at all. The owner claimed that they had a big rib order on Saturday that tapped them out. Note: This was Monday night, so that excuse didn't hold water in my book.
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #8 - June 23rd, 2010, 2:03 pm
    Post #8 - June 23rd, 2010, 2:03 pm Post #8 - June 23rd, 2010, 2:03 pm
    Sounds like this joint has a few strikes on it already, bummer.
    Anyone snap pics?
    Last edited by Cbot on June 23rd, 2010, 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  • Post #9 - June 23rd, 2010, 4:06 pm
    Post #9 - June 23rd, 2010, 4:06 pm Post #9 - June 23rd, 2010, 4:06 pm
    The thing I find really weird about the place is their apprehension to make it BYOB. To me, beer and bbq is such an obvious combo.
  • Post #10 - June 23rd, 2010, 5:25 pm
    Post #10 - June 23rd, 2010, 5:25 pm Post #10 - June 23rd, 2010, 5:25 pm
    Cbot wrote:Sounds like this joint has a few strikes on it already, bummer.
    Anyone snap pics?



    great idea, ill be looking forward to your post and the pics of your visit. :)
  • Post #11 - June 23rd, 2010, 5:26 pm
    Post #11 - June 23rd, 2010, 5:26 pm Post #11 - June 23rd, 2010, 5:26 pm
    jimswside wrote:
    Cbot wrote:Sounds like this joint has a few strikes on it already, bummer.
    Anyone snap pics?



    great idea, ill be looking forward to your post and pics of your visit. :)



    I'll be going back in a month or so. I promise pictures, if the food is worth it.
    Steve Z.

    “Only the pure in heart can make a good soup.”
    ― Ludwig van Beethoven
  • Post #12 - June 23rd, 2010, 7:48 pm
    Post #12 - June 23rd, 2010, 7:48 pm Post #12 - June 23rd, 2010, 7:48 pm
    Stopped in today on my way back to my office from a meeting at Swedish Covenant. Ordered the sliced brisket platter with slaw and 2 sides (my standard order at Smoque). Went with the beans and yukon smashed as the sides, realized when I got to my office that there was no slaw. It came with some sauce and a small roll.

    The brisket was a little tough with very little smoke flavor and only a slight reddish hue from the smoker on one side (the other side was a pretty thick fat layer on most slices). Definately needs a better rub and a lot more time in the smoker. Sauce was too sweet for my taste but it did liven up the lifeless flavor of the beans. The beans had 3 or 4 different types and some sad looking chopped bacon with a very bland sauce. The smashed potatoes were the highlight of the meal.

    I'll likely give them another try since I pass close by there a couple of times a week.
  • Post #13 - June 23rd, 2010, 8:43 pm
    Post #13 - June 23rd, 2010, 8:43 pm Post #13 - June 23rd, 2010, 8:43 pm
    here's my takeout from there this evening.

    I know we're all "a bunch of foodies" but jeeze, the place hasn't been open a few weeks yet and many of you are flogging them to welt stage. That's one of things I dislike about LTH....... I think they'll get better as they move forward.

    Lots of food for the low prices.

    I'll reserve critiquing everything until I've been there 3 or 4 times being they are a brand spanking new place with owners that never owned a BBQ joint before.

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  • Post #14 - June 23rd, 2010, 8:46 pm
    Post #14 - June 23rd, 2010, 8:46 pm Post #14 - June 23rd, 2010, 8:46 pm
    menu easier to read:

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  • Post #15 - June 23rd, 2010, 11:56 pm
    Post #15 - June 23rd, 2010, 11:56 pm Post #15 - June 23rd, 2010, 11:56 pm
    Other than our table, there were two other patrons, so not busy at all. The owner claimed that they had a big rib order on Saturday that tapped them out. Note: This was Monday night, so that excuse didn't hold water in my book.


    Actually I think it holds water. The owners are probably ordering Friday for Saturday which means they're projecting sales for Saturday/Sunday definitely and most likely Monday. Although you get a delivery on Monday, it is not always guaranteed to be there in time (especially when you're a small, just opened, restaurant pretty far away from the market). Plus when they come in you have to prep them and get the ribs on the smoker. I can see even a decent sized order throwing a wrench in the rest of the weekend and even Monday when you're barely opened and have no idea what you might need for any given day.

    We need to remember that not everyone can open like Smoque ( and even they ran out of meat) and put out perfect BBQ from the very beginning.
  • Post #16 - June 24th, 2010, 5:03 pm
    Post #16 - June 24th, 2010, 5:03 pm Post #16 - June 24th, 2010, 5:03 pm
    Late lunch today. Huge space. Seems even bigger when there is only 2 other people. I would say there is potential there but everything definitely needs a little tweaking. Ordered the tip/hot link combo with two sides, add a drink, $11. Would say that's reasonable. Hot link was the best part, reminded me of a big smoked polish kielbasa. A little bit of spice to it. Tips had some smokiness to them but here was the main problem and I think the main problem of this whole place is that everything is done with it seems one person in the kitchen. The best part of ordering tips at Honey 1 is that you know your order is being put together when you here that "whap, whap, whap" of the tips coming off. Not here. I'm pretty sure these are being held in a steam table, they almost seem braised in a way. Flavor was good though and the rub has some good heat to it which I'm fond of.

    Sides were pretty ho-hum. Mac and cheese was actually shells in alfredo sauce. Again, pasta overdone, felt like it came out of a steam table. Smashed potatoes were good (besides a lack of salt) but mashed potatoes aren't that difficult. Cook, add a ton of butter and cream, and you're done. Coleslaw was the brightest, nicest looking coleslaw, and completely void of flavor. I tend to hate all coleslaw but always tend to eat it, this I took one bit of and never went back to.

    Overall it's hard to knock a place that is trying to do good, solid food. Just seems the execution on everything is a little off. Also, when they serve your food on the exact metal trays used at Smoque and you order off a chalkboard (like Smoque) you immediately start to compare. And there really is no comparison. There is definitely potential in this place, it's just going to take some time and a ton of work on the owners part. I got the general feeling they weren't ready to open yet but did (they don't have salt and pepper shakers or packets) or maybe it's just a front for a food truck down the line (that's my conspiracy theorist side kicking in anytime anyone opens a new, small, out of the way place), who knows but I'd give it a month before another try.

    Oh and as for them smoking on site, I'm sure they do. I'm also positive that it is done long before the doors ever open so that the owner can tend to the customers. If I were them I'd have one rack on the smoker at all times just to get the smell in there.
  • Post #17 - June 25th, 2010, 4:55 pm
    Post #17 - June 25th, 2010, 4:55 pm Post #17 - June 25th, 2010, 4:55 pm
    I was told that they put pork butts and brisket in the smoker at 8PM and then at 8AM they put in the ribs. When the ribs are done the smoker is set for 140 degrees for holding. So your best bet is an early lunch. They smoke the tips in batches that are designed to last more than a day so I guess its more of crap shoot knowing when to get them.
  • Post #18 - July 3rd, 2010, 3:14 pm
    Post #18 - July 3rd, 2010, 3:14 pm Post #18 - July 3rd, 2010, 3:14 pm
    I had tried Smokey Bears on Friday and was not impressed to say the least. I had the rib tip / link combo with 2 sides. The rib tips tasted as if they were sitting in steamer/warming plate and no visual sign of a smoke ring or taste. The sides that I had were the beans and mac and cheese. Both were off putting and not up to par. The mac and cheese was bland and the beans were watery soupy consistency. The link was the best part of the meal but it also did not have a taste I enjoyed when comparing honey 1 links (which might be moo and oink) to these.

    I was not impressed with tips which I think suffered from being put a in a warming tray of some sort as they were somewhat wet and no presence of bark or smoke ring. I could taste the rub which was good but not a fan of this place yet.
  • Post #19 - July 3rd, 2010, 10:00 pm
    Post #19 - July 3rd, 2010, 10:00 pm Post #19 - July 3rd, 2010, 10:00 pm
    Got take out today for 6 plus 3 kids, so I got to try most of the menu. As this is by far the closest bbq place to my house, I really want to like it, and it does have potential. Biggest disappointment were the tips, as has been mentioned before. I hope they can fix this cause tips are my favorite. Dry, old, too little fat. Curse of north side tips, in my experience. Best item - the half chicken, really tender, well spiced, moist - 8 on a scale to 10. I'm not a huge pulled pork, shredded brisket fan, but the meat was tasty. Links were pretty good. Sides could be better. Mac and cheese was alfredo and shells, cole slaw was too healthy, ie pretty tasteless. best side was some kind of bacon and bean thing, tasty but too soupy IMO. I talked to the owner and asked him if he knew about LFH forum and if they had a thread on them yet (I hadn't checked before going). He hadn't heard about us, I was kind of surprised esp. as bbq obsessed as LTH is, I figured a new joint would have LTH on it's radar. Nice young guy, said his brother was usually there instead of him. Enjoyed talking to him. Prices are good. Hope they make it. North Park and Northeastern student population should help. I'll be back. FIX THE TIPS!
  • Post #20 - July 20th, 2010, 6:07 pm
    Post #20 - July 20th, 2010, 6:07 pm Post #20 - July 20th, 2010, 6:07 pm
    LTH,

    Nice crowd Friday evening, efficient staff, reasonable prices, comfortable room, BBQ a work in progress. Nicely flavored BBQ rub had turned to an unpalatable gummy paste, really a turn-off, and the ribs could have used another 45-minutes in the cooker. Finely ground hot links had a bit of heat, but I found the mealy texture off-putting, exterior color was deep black though no smoke flavor and, thankfully, no bitter creosote notes. Counter man did say they were thinking of making their own hot links, good idea as no doubt it will be an improvement over the current offering.

    Side wise, Mac and Cheese was on the cusp of curdle and slaw nondescript.

    Dinner was pleasant as I ran into GardenofEatin and her husband and we chatted for over an hour. The staff at Smokey Bears was very accommodating in that regard as they let us stay and talk until they were ready to leave.

    I see potential and lots of enthusiasm, I'll give it a month and go again.

    Enjoy,
    Gary
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #21 - July 20th, 2010, 8:06 pm
    Post #21 - July 20th, 2010, 8:06 pm Post #21 - July 20th, 2010, 8:06 pm
    Tried it tonight. Overall, OK for a BBQ joint in North Park. I had the turkey leg, which was a little bit on the dry side, but the meat was flavorful from the rub. I enjoyed it - the flavor reminded me of the mutton available at a favorite KC joint of mine (Gates). My wife had the brisket, which was extremely juicy, perhaps too much so - looked a lot more like hash or stew.

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    Side-wise, we tried the mac & cheese, beans, and sweet potato fries. Contrary to others' experiences, we actually liked the mac & cheese. They use smoked cheddar, cheddar, parmesan, and mozzarella; it had a creamy texture and didn't seem overcooked, so maybe we got a fresh batch. The sweet potato fries have a dusting of salt, brown sugar, black and red pepper. The pepper gave a little kick that you tend not to expect from sweet potato fries. Not saying it was bad, just different. The fries were not overdone and not soggy. The beans were sweet and smoky, and a bit too soupy for my taste. The slaw had a little bit of taste from the added cilantro, but otherwise functioned as a palate cleanser.

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    Nobody has really talked about the sauces, which were all over the map. The sauce they seem to serve standard with all the meats had a sweet, tangy tomato flavor. The spicy was the same tomatoey sauce with some added smoky heat. The vinegar-based sauce was mostly vinegar and not much else, while the mustard sauce had an ecru shade to it and was a bit runny and lacking in mustard taste.

    The decor was pretty sparse and featured a lot of pastoral and meat-themed pictures, although I'm not sure I agree with placing this one in a BBQ joint (apologies for the unsteady hand):

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    For full disclosure, our son was offered a free pop-ice:
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    Would we go again? Maybe. It's convenient to us and a good value for the price, but it certainly didn't blow my skirt up.
  • Post #22 - July 24th, 2010, 3:10 pm
    Post #22 - July 24th, 2010, 3:10 pm Post #22 - July 24th, 2010, 3:10 pm
    Indeed, Husband and I had our first GWiv encounter at Smokey Bears last Friday. The interesting conversation made an otherwise alrightish meal quite enjoyable.

    As to the food, well, I hate to be too harsh because they are fairly new, but I also want to be honest. Nothing that I had really blew me away. We ordered a rack of ribs, an order of hot links, smashed potatoes, and mac & cheese. Cole slaw came with the ribs & two sides combo. We tried to order the sweet potato fries (I have never eaten a sweet potato fry that I didn't love), but they were all out.

    The ribs were a bit difficult to cut into. I like a bit of fight to my ribs, rather than the highly-praised "fall of the bone" style, but I also like to be able to cut into them to separate each bone. It was tough going with the plastic utensils provided. As Gary noted, they were coated in a gritty paste of dry rub. It stuck to my teeth every time I bit into a rib, and coated my tongue. The texture took away from the experience, though the flavor was fine. Really, the same could be said for the ribs.

    The links were not really very good. Very mealy, finely ground texture that just put me off. I didn't even eat a whole one.

    The sides were a mixed bag. Mac & cheese was certainly not the best I've ever had. I prefer a creamy style mac, and this was a bit too dried out and gritty for my liking. It might be better when served at its peak, as others seem to have found. Smashed potatoes were decent--creamy Yukon Gold mashed potatoes, and they tasted like they had some garlic in them. The cole slaw was underwhelming. It tasted a bit like the shredded cabbage had been doused in Italian dressing.

    With all that said, I will definitely be back. First of all, as others have pointed out, they're very new to the barbecue business and they seem intent on improving things (the hot links in particular). Second, I'm interested in trying other things on the menu, including those sweet potato fries, which are just calling out to me... I hope more people will support them, as I'd love to have a successful barbecue joint in the neighborhood.
  • Post #23 - July 24th, 2010, 4:06 pm
    Post #23 - July 24th, 2010, 4:06 pm Post #23 - July 24th, 2010, 4:06 pm
    My daughter in Andersonville has been jonesing to give this place a try. We have recently taken her to Smoque and I am afraid this might be a disappointment.

    They have been open a (critical first) month and you would of expected things would of been getting better but it does not sound like it. It sounds like things have been consistently bad without any improvement.

    While not BBQ, we might be checking out The Piggery (just around the corner) before heading over here.
    "Very good... but not my favorite." ~ Johnny Depp as Roux the Gypsy in Chocolat
  • Post #24 - August 4th, 2010, 8:17 am
    Post #24 - August 4th, 2010, 8:17 am Post #24 - August 4th, 2010, 8:17 am
    Panther in the Den wrote:My daughter in Andersonville has been jonesing to give this place a try.

    PitD,

    Did you go? I've been twice and find Smokey Bears a work in progress. Last visit, about a week ago, links were better, moist as opposed to Sahara dry, but one of the least appealing links, both flavor and texture, I've encountered. Still a problem with gummy/pasty rub, tips were tough to boot.

    Smokey Bears Tips

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    Best of the bunch was a straight from the smoker turkey leg. Light smoke flavor, moist with crisp skin.

    Turkey Leg

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    Enjoy,
    Gary
    One minute to Wapner.
    Raymond Babbitt

    Low & Slow
  • Post #25 - August 4th, 2010, 9:08 am
    Post #25 - August 4th, 2010, 9:08 am Post #25 - August 4th, 2010, 9:08 am
    This is my review that I wrote on Yelp. Nothing much that hasn't already been mentioned:

    (3 stars)

    I feel like 2.5 stars is probably a little more accurate.

    I'm very excited that a BBQ place is open in the Albany Park/North Park area. And I can tell by the enthusiasm of these guys, that they really want to put out a good product. But, I found our food very mediocre. I also find that these guys try very hard to mirror what Smoque is doing, however, there are a few different approaches they've taken -- that I wouldn't call improvements.

    Turkey Leg - You can't get this at Smoque, and I've read and seen pictures that have really piqued my interest. But my turkey leg was pretty dry. I wanted to try it with the mustard bbq sauce that they have -- but they were out of it.

    Chopped Brisket (special) - This was on special. I found it very wet. But It was also pulled and not chopped. It was ok, better than the turkey leg, but not mind blowing.

    Sweet Potato Fries - These were really good. The brown sugar and cayenne really do add a nice bit of texture to the fries. I would definitely have these again.

    Coleslaw - Wife liked it, I did not. I thought it was absolutely flavorless. They need to add more vinegar and more sugar, more celery seeds and possibly more cracked peppercorn. As of now it's literally fresh wet cabbage in a bowl. Coleslaw comes free with your order, but with a better recipe they could probably charge for it.

    Some things that I find really odd about the place and fall into the "we're doing things a little differently than Smoque" category:

    No Cornbread - what?

    No BYOB or Beer - look, i can appreciate that the restaurant is trying to cater to the North Park University crowd -- but BBQ and Beer just go together. And the truth is, you can't just cater to one audience or you'll alienate many others.

    I would go back for convenience and the sweet potato fries... but I don't think this is the best 'que in town.
  • Post #26 - August 4th, 2010, 9:10 am
    Post #26 - August 4th, 2010, 9:10 am Post #26 - August 4th, 2010, 9:10 am
    I hope this place is a work in progress because my first visit was a real letdown. Pulled pork had obviously been kept sitting in some greasy liquid/residue (which did not improve the flavor) and yet still offered many dried out chunks and very little smoke flavor (but a lot of grease).

    Beans were on the sweet side, and perhaps a bit one dimensional in that respect, and a bit soupy although toothsome. Strangely, I enjoyed them . . . different from most for sure.

    It's so close to my home, but I think I'll sit on the sidelines and wait to hear more encouraging words before I return.
  • Post #27 - August 4th, 2010, 5:45 pm
    Post #27 - August 4th, 2010, 5:45 pm Post #27 - August 4th, 2010, 5:45 pm
    G Wiv wrote:
    Panther in the Den wrote:My daughter in Andersonville has been jonesing to give this place a try.

    PiD, Did you go? Gary

    Nope. Not yet.

    We haven't been up in the area yet and I do have my reservations.

    It sounds like the tips are still dry and the pork and brisket still suffering from being held on the steam table.

    I will leave it up to my daughter when we visit.
    "Very good... but not my favorite." ~ Johnny Depp as Roux the Gypsy in Chocolat
  • Post #28 - August 9th, 2010, 2:39 pm
    Post #28 - August 9th, 2010, 2:39 pm Post #28 - August 9th, 2010, 2:39 pm
    Went for lunch again today at 2pm. It's my third time since they opened. Had tips, pulled pork, baked beans and slaw.

    The tips and pulled pork are much better now than a few weeks ago. Pork was perfect with just the right amount of moisture and absolutely no oil/grease. Tips have really come up and that pastiness is gone. They changed technique.

    I brought a buddy with me. A BBQ eater from way back, and he's now making Smokey Bears his go to place for family BBQ takeout meals.

    In the past few weeks I've sent 5 people and all 5 are liking the product. The main thing I hear beside yumminess is that you get nice size portions for the money spent.
  • Post #29 - August 23rd, 2010, 4:41 pm
    Post #29 - August 23rd, 2010, 4:41 pm Post #29 - August 23rd, 2010, 4:41 pm
    Made the trip a few days ago and won't likely be back any time soon when there are so many other better choices. The Hot Links were nothing but hot, truly disappointing. Rib Tips, close second in disappointment. I don't know who their butcher is but he sucks; way too much boney hunks, not enough meat, fat, or cartilage; no comparison to the best tips in town at Uncle Johns. Brisket and pulled pork fair, nothing special. Sides were so so, as good as to be expected from most bbq joints that aren't a bit more into having sides that matter. Sauces, also nothing special, mostly just hot for no good reason. I don't see a long life for this place.
    I just want to eat what I want and be left alone.
  • Post #30 - August 23rd, 2010, 7:38 pm
    Post #30 - August 23rd, 2010, 7:38 pm Post #30 - August 23rd, 2010, 7:38 pm
    bbqbyrds wrote:no comparison to the best tips in town at Uncle Johns..........I don't see a long life for this place.


    At some point isn't this kinda review based on apples and oranges and not really giving anyone who reads this a year from now any thing relevant at that point?

    Compare a brand spanking new North Park neighborhood BBQ joint to Mack's cooking then predict it's demise? Why do that? Who benefits? What about context in a neighborhood?

    I agree this place isn't Uncle Johns or Honey 1 but there's a niche biz where it's located.

    Your profile says you are from out by O'Hare, which I thinks means you live that way. What's out there BBQ -wise that you might buy from for take out or eat in on say a Tuesday night at 7pm 15 minutes after you get home from work. Not necessarily a place you'd make a date two weeks into the future as a destination?

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