Avenues, Tru, and now...BBQ. Lillie's.

Avenues, Tru, and now...BBQ. Lillie's.

I love Q as much as the next guy who has G Wiv as his BBQ life coach, though I meet most new openings of BBQ joints with indifference: we've got lots of good places to eat BBQ in Chicago, and one more is not going to make much of a difference to me.

Lillie's Q (opening next month, or that's the plan) is headed by Chas. McKenna, formerly of Avenues and Tru; this place, which has multiple locations, is owned by his parents, Quito and Teresa: http://www.lilliesq.com/LPA_HOME.html

Kind of interesting.

Lillie’s Q
1856 W North Ave
773.772.5500

Avenues and Tru, eh? Obviously this place will be expensive and terrible.

There, 3 pages of pre-opening posts saved.

former champion at MIM in pork shoulder? obviously this place will be the second coming!

No, Darren. I've never even met Chas., let alone invent the fantistical farce-seeming idea of this restaurant. Has The Onion taken over BBQ in this town?

OMG: BBQ IS the new sushi. Oh well, at least the new sushi isn't sushi, and as GWiv noted, "At least it's not the new cupcake".

At yesterday's Culinary Historians get-together, Barry Sorkin read some of the LTH posts that came out before Smoque was open, before anyone had a bite of his food. He said reading some of from-the-get-go snidery, before he or anyone had any idea his place would be so successful, was disheartening.

David Hammond wrote:He said reading some of from-the-get-go snidery, before he or anyone had any idea his place would be so successful, was disheartening.

Sorkin went on to say detailed critique on LTHForum helped him refine his process and posts on LTHForum, which often acts as lead for traditional media, contributed to Smoque's initial crowds. Sorkin's comments re LTHForum were, in the main, quite positive.

Barry Sorkin is a terrific speaker, very engaging.

Enjoy,
Gary

Hi,

In two weeks or so, a podcast of this program will be available for anyone to listen to.

Barry also commented they have never spent any money on PR or sent any press release related to their business. The first day they served customers at a volume they expected at year three.

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:The first day they served customers at a volume they expected at year three.

Attributable, perhaps in part, to posts on LTHForum.

Lillie's Q will open to the public at 5pm Thursday, July 29. I can't figure out how to attach the opening menu on here, but Grub Street has posted the opening menu here

(Again, I am the publicist for Lillie's Q)

daveandrews3 wrote:Lillie's Q will open to the public at 5pm Thursday, July 29. I can't figure out how to attach the opening menu on here, but Grub Street has posted the opening menu here

(Again, I am the publicist for Lillie's Q)

Thanks for posting that link, there's a few items on the menu that I really like that aren't commonly available here so I'd be coming by frequently if any of the following hit the mark - Brunswick Stew, Tri-tip and Low Country Boil (Frogmore Stew to me).

Question - does "Southern Style coleslaw" imply that this will be more of a vinegar-based as opposed to mayo-based. If so, that would be a good thing.

Kman wrote:

daveandrews3 wrote:Lillie's Q will open to the public at 5pm Thursday, July 29. I can't figure out how to attach the opening menu on here, but Grub Street has posted the opening menu here

(Again, I am the publicist for Lillie's Q)

Thanks for posting that link, there's a few items on the menu that I really like that aren't commonly available here so I'd be coming by frequently if any of the following hit the mark - Brunswick Stew, Tri-tip and Low Country Boil (Frogmore Stew to me).

Question - does "Southern Style coleslaw" imply that this will be more of a vinegar-based as opposed to mayo-based. If so, that would be a good thing.

Hey Kman,

The Southern Style coleslaw at Lillie's Q is a mayo & vinegar combo slaw, but I haven't tasted it yet. While I really enjoyed everything at last night's friends & family gathering, I felt the standout of the limited menu served (boiled peanuts, pimento cheese, quarter chicken, tri-tip, baby back ribs, pulled pork sammiches) was hands down the tri-tip.

David Hammond wrote:Lillie's Q (opening next month, or that's the plan) is headed by Chas. McKenna, formerly of Avenues and Tru; this place, which has locations, is owned by his parents, Quito and Teresa

Quito McKenna? I like the name. Reminds me of Bernardo O'Higgins, the leader of Chilean independence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardo_O%27Higgins

This "Daily Candy" item was emailed to me this morning:

Baby's Got Sauce
Lillie's Q Opens



Things you may know about Lillie’s Q, Wicker Park’s newest BBQ joint opening tomorrow:
1. Chef Charlie McKenna is at the helm. He’s sous-cheffed at Tru and Avenues, so you know he means bidness.
2. Two custom smokers from Georgia help McKenna fulfill his duties as pit master.
3. McKenna competes (and consistently wins) at Memphis in May, the country’s biggest and best BBQ competition.
Things you don’t know (but should):
1. McKenna tested recipes for seven years before settling on the best.
2. If you slather the Ivory sauce (one of five to pick from) on the pulled chicken, it tastes like smoked chicken salad.
3. The cornbread is McKenna’s grandfather’s traditional Southern recipe, which uses less sugar than the Northern variety. A slug of bacon fat doesn’t hurt matters.
4. McKenna’s mom flew in to teach Lillie’s kitchen staff to make the meringue-topped banana pudding, a generations-old family recipe.
5. Metropolitan Brewing tweaked its copper lager recipe to make it fit for Lillie’s — the house blend even has its own label.
6. A four-foot moonshine still from Kentucky sits behind the bar, equipped to turn out extra-strong white corn whiskey.
7. Come fall, McKenna’s sweetly outfitted BBQ trailer (flat-screen TV, stage, three smokers) will roll to backyard parties, rehearsal dinners, and more.
Lillie’s Q, 1856 West North Avenue, at Wolcott Avenue (773-772-5500 or lilliesq.com).

FWIW the original is located near Fort Walton Beach and FWIW it gets good ratings on Urbanspoon.

Lillie's Q
(850) 654-3911
Miramar Beach
9848 Emerald Coast Pky
Sandestin, FL 32550
www.lilliesq.com

this place sounds really good. I worked with Charlie McKenna for a bit at Roy's on State, way back when, and he definitely knew his stuff and approached his work very seriously.

Doesn't sound like much has changed. Their menu is well thought-out and offers enough of a difference from other BBQ places to make it worth checking out, and it sounds like he's really taken his time putting this concept together.

The location sucks for me, but I'll certainly be looking for an opportunity to make it down there and check them out.

Really looking forward to try this place.

The Fine Dining Experience, Opening Week Critics, Non-BBQ Items

The Fine Dining Experience

His pedigree at fine dining establishments in Chicago and elsewhere was the original focus of this thread, and Charlie McKenna's background can hardly not be mentioned in any discussion of the chef and his new restaurant (I believe Trib and Time Out Chicago reviews are coming within the next week or so, and I doubt they'll be able to avoid that topic).

I had dinner at Lillie's Q last night as McKenna's guest and my first question to him was: “Who is it easier to cook for, the people who come to eat at your old places, Tru and Avenues, or the people who come to eat at Lillie’s?”

Without hesitation, McKenna said the people at Lillie’s are a tougher crowd. Here’s some of the reasons why he believes that:

1. Everyone has an opinion about BBQ and everyone thinks they know what good BBQ should be. At Lillie’s, people have complained that the meat is too soft (meat jello) and that the meat isn’t soft enough (“jerky”). More people eat BBQ than dine at the rarefied heights of True or Avenues, their moms probably made the stuff, the very name “BBQ” means different things in different parts of the country, so the likelihood of pleasing all the people all the time is more of a challenge at Lillie’s than at the finer dining places. At Tru or Avenues, McKenna said, if a customer got a piece of fish that was underdone, they’d assume that this was the way it’s supposed to be; they’d assume they were in the presence of an artist chef who never made mistakes.

2. When you’re cooking such a basic menu, mistakes are more obvious. This reminds me a lot of what Mark Mendez said during my Soundbite segment at Carnivale last week: “to me. it takes more courage to put two or three things on a plate than it does to put twenty things on a plate, because if you screw one of those things up, it’s really obvious that you made a mistake, or you don’t know or aren’t very good at what you do.” I believe it takes an incredible amount of skill to turn out good BBQ in part because the chef’s craft is so exposed: there are fewer ways to cover mistakes (though over-saucing is one) and the essential elements are so…elemental: meat and fire. Mess up one end of that simple equation and you have a mess no one wants to eat.

3. People are more passionate about BBQ than they are about the exquisite creations at Avenues or Tru. We all have our BBQ gold standard that never tarnishes (point 1, above), or maybe because BBQ is more knowable (point 2, above), or maybe because the whole BBQ enterprise is wrapped up in the egos of an extraordinarily egocentric subcategory of chefs that invite flame wars of one sort or another, people get worked up about BBQ. That's one of the reasons it’s so much fun having all these BBQ places sprouting up all over Chicago.

Opening Week Critics

I had read several reviews of Lillie’s before we ate there, and McKenna admitted that some of them had rankled him because he thought it wasn’t fair to go hard on a place during the first few weeks. I played devil’s advocate by observing, "But if you’re opening your doors, and you're charging full prices, isn’t it fair for customers to expect that you’re up to speed?

If you’re holding a media event for LTHers and others, then you really have got to be sure you’re ready to turn out your best possible product with the best possible service.

This is a conundrum: restaurants simultaneously want publicity from Day One, but on Day One, there are always lots of details to be worked out that are going to lead, in some cases, to a less than stellar performance and sometimes harsh reviews. I remember on LTH someone (sorry: forgot who) had mentioned that it might be good for restaurants to open for the first two weeks with reduced prices and be upfront that this is a training period, things won’t be perfect, we want your feedback, and in return we’ll drop our prices a little to show our appreciation. McKenna felt that this would go some way toward “defusing” the problem. Still, no restaurant I know of has tried this strategy yet, but it seems worth trying.

Critics usually want to be first to market with their impressions about restaurants, and few publications except Chicago Reader exercise the discipline to hold off reviews unless the place has been open at least month. I understand why some news outlets, like New City and Time Out Chicago, review places within weeks or even days of opening: people want news.

Restaurants, in turn, probably appreciate early reviews to create buzz, drive biz, etc.

There’s no easy solution here.

Non-BBQ Items

Lillie’s has “BBQ” in big red letters running down the side of the building, so it’s no surprise that most folks who walk in the doors are thinking one thing: smoked meat.

We had the tri-tip, pulled pork, ribs and chicken, and they were all good on the night we were there, but I was most interested in the non-BBQ items. I was intrigued by the Brunswick Stew, which does not get much attention in restaurants in these parts.


Brunswick stew (no squirrels were harmed in the preparation of this dish

“Comfort food,” like BBQ, is going to vary by region and even household, but Brunswick stew, whether it comes from Brunswick, Georgia or Brunswick County, Virginia, seems like it has to be most comforting for a lot of folks south of the Mason-Dixon line. It’s simple; it’s warming; it’s got the protein and the starch in a non-aggressive tomato-based sauce; it’s not challenging, and come winter, it will be even better. I was wondering how this stew was going to be served, and the iron pot is perfect (many menu items come in these kind of cooking/serving containers, as though pulled by mom -- or grandma -- right off the stove).


Shrimp n' grits in background; Low Country Boil in foreground.

“Not too many Northerners can cook grits like that,” said The Wife after one forkful of the Shrimp n’ Grits. “They’re miraculous.” The grits were very, very good, smooth and rich yet grainy and substantial, a foil to the slight heat of the sauce, and the shrimps were done just perfectly, not a bit overcooked, still moist and full of flavor. These might be the best SnG I’ve had in a restaurant.

The Low Country Boil (or Frogmore, if you prefer) was kind of a bouillabaisse, the sort of thing you can imagine home chefs slamming together with whatever sausage or seafood they could add to the potato and corn cobs. This bowl seemed an excellent blend of sweet (blue crabs, corn), heat (from, I believe, the ubiquitous Carolina Dirt rub), fatty protein (sausage), and the carbs. It was satisfying on a lot of levels and it looked really…entertaining.

Throughout our meal at Lillie's Q, we were very happy.

few publications except Chicago Reader exercise the discipline to hold off reviews unless the place has been open at least month.

Not true. My place was reviewed in the first two weeks by the Reader. It just about killed us from the ensuing onslaught, though I think Kiki thought she was doing us a favor. Hell, I thought it was a huge favor until my Mom, my partner and I could no longer stand on our feet and we hired a dishwasher.

As to Lillie's, I can understand the inconsistencies. I can't excuse the stanky shrimp I was served on a Friday, but if I had to do it(edit: open a restaurant) all over again (and I won't) it would look a lot like Lillie's. But Kentucky Bourbon, dammit, not Virginia whiskey.

You either hold off on hiring PR, spend two weeks training your staff through private dinners or take your lumps. With the internet and you lth'ers prowling the streets looking for the newest BBQ sign, it's impossible to do a soft opening.
He'll get his sea legs in the mean time, learning to be a Chief instead of an Indian. (perhaps skipper instead of a deckhand would be more apt)

.....and it's so true about people being baffled by the bullshit in fine dining. I'll take yesteryear's pyrotechnical displays of table side flambee over knowing which farm my Organic Ruusian Blue Fingerling Baby Potatos were grown on and appreciating how much food was wasted creating a tomato water essence that explodes upon piercing it's liquid nitrogen-ated olive gel enclosure. It's gotten to the point that it's as overtop as Sabatino's chateuabriand having sparklers. (which I absolutely adore and every restaurant should emulate, at least you're getting something to eat for your money)

dk wrote:

few publications except Chicago Reader exercise the discipline to hold off reviews unless the place has been open at least month.

Not true. My place was reviewed in the first two weeks by the Reader. It just about killed us from the ensuing onslaught, though I think Kiki thought she was doing us a favor. Hell, I thought it was a huge favor until my Mom, my partner and I could no longer stand on our feet and we hired a dishwasher.

The 30-day waiting rule is a general Reader policy which in your case, for some reason, was not observed. I can't explain why that would be, but I doubt it was to do you a favor (wanting to help a restaurant would be evidence of a kind of bias that serious journalists would avoid).

David Hammond wrote:The 30-day waiting rule is a general Reader policy

When I've done reviews of new restaurants for the Reader I've always been asked to wait approximately 30-days. I am currently doing a reader review of a new BBQ joint that typically I would have visited within a week of opening and held off to keep within Reader policy.

David Hammond wrote:I remember on LTH someone (sorry: forgot who) had mentioned that it might be good for restaurants to open for the first two weeks with reduced prices and be upfront that this is a training period, things won’t be perfect, we want your feedback, and in return we’ll drop our prices a little to show our appreciation. McKenna felt that this would go some way toward “defusing” the problem. Still, no restaurant I know of has tried this strategy yet, but it seems worth trying.

Bonsoiree did something similar, though for me they were too late in describing it as an early-going promotion while they worked things out. I got comfortable with the low prices they charged at the beginning, then had a hard time with it when the prices starting going up dramatically. I haven't been back since those early days, even though I did like the place.

Kennyz wrote:

David Hammond wrote:I remember on LTH someone (sorry: forgot who) had mentioned that it might be good for restaurants to open for the first two weeks with reduced prices and be upfront that this is a training period, things won’t be perfect, we want your feedback, and in return we’ll drop our prices a little to show our appreciation. McKenna felt that this would go some way toward “defusing” the problem. Still, no restaurant I know of has tried this strategy yet, but it seems worth trying.

Bonsoiree did something similar, though for me they were too late in describing it as an early-going promotion while they worked things out. I got comfortable with the low prices they charged at the beginning, then had a hard time with it when the prices starting going up dramatically. I haven't been back since those early days, even though I did like the place.

I think you've touched on the problem with the "low introductory pricing" strategy during the training period. After the training period, prices go up and people start feeling they're paying too much.

Primehouse gave everyone a 20% discount for the first few weeks they were open, as referenced in stevez's first post in the main primehouse thread. They managed expectations by giving people full-price menus and then tacking on the discount on the final bill, without disclosing it ahead of time.

but I doubt it was to do you a favor

It wasn't. It was a happy coincidence that Kiki was practicing w/ her band around the corner the day after we opened and she happened to come in, not knowing it was my place. I've known her for years, long before she worked at the Reader. Actually, I think she was nurturing a writer at the time by suggesting to him an easy assignment.(I can be colorful, if cantankerous) It was just one of those weird lucky things that happen and the story just happened to run when it did. I did not mean to suggest there was anything untoward about it, because there wasn't. and I've never comped a meal to a critic, only repairmen and the homeless.

my larger point about the difficulties of doing a soft opening today still stand.

I'm not sure what the issue is here. It seems that those who went to the media dinner had a more positive experience than those who went after the restaurant actually opened? Does that really come as a surprise to most people.

Every new place has kinks to work out when they open. If you really want to experience a place at it's best, just resist going when they first open. I mean, it's not like there's a shortage of good restaurants in this town.

jesteinf wrote:I'm not sure what the issue is here. It seems that those who went to the media dinner had a more positive experience than those who went after the restaurant actually opened? Does that really come as a surprise to most people.

That’s sure not my issue. I didn’t go to the media dinner but from what I’ve heard, there were some glitches that I did not detect last Saturday night.

jesteinf wrote:Every new place has kinks to work out when they open. If you really want to experience a place at it's best, just resist going when they first open. I mean, it's not like there's a shortage of good restaurants in this town.

Undoubtedly true, but the reason it’s hard for some to “resist going” is that they have the very understandable motivation to be the “first” to write it up in either a discussion board format like this or a paper publication. Or they get invited to dinner there during the first week of operation.

David Hammond wrote:Undoubtedly true, but the reason it’s hard for some to “resist going” is that they have the very understandable motivation to be the “first” to write it up in either a discussion board format like this or a paper publication. Or they get invited to dinner there during the first week of operation.

Oh, absolutely. Personally I discount a lot of what I read about a place so close to it's opening. It's interesting to see what they're serving, but I'm always of the mind that food and service are going to evolve significantly from the initial accounts (and if they don't, well, clearly that's a problem).

It's almost the same problem as having to fill a 24-hour news cycle. There's so much competition to be "first" or to have a "scoop", the value and quality of the information really suffers.

I can't wait to try Lillie's...in another month or two.

G Wiv wrote:

David Hammond wrote:The 30-day waiting rule is a general Reader policy

When I've done reviews of new restaurants for the Reader I've always been asked to wait approximately 30-days. I am currently doing a reader review of a new BBQ joint that typically I would have visited within a week of opening and held off to keep within Reader policy.

Critics for the Reader do indeed wait approximately one month before visiting new restaurants.

dk is presumably referring to this restaurant profile on Feed. While there are a few qualitative judgments on the food, that is not really what we consider a review.

It is unlikely that then-managing editor Kiki Yablon made the assignment for that story, and in any case, it should go without saying that the Reader doesn't publish stories as favors to subjects.

m'th'su wrote:

G Wiv wrote:

David Hammond wrote:The 30-day waiting rule is a general Reader policy

When I've done reviews of new restaurants for the Reader I've always been asked to wait approximately 30-days. I am currently doing a reader review of a new BBQ joint that typically I would have visited within a week of opening and held off to keep within Reader policy.

Critics for the Reader do indeed wait approximately one month before visiting new restaurants.

dk is presumably referring to this restaurant profile on Feed. While there are a few qualitative judgments on the food, that is not really what we consider a review.

It is unlikely that then-managing editor Kiki Yablon made the assignment for that story, and in any case, it should go without saying that the Reader doesn't publish stories as favors to subjects.

It baffles me that publications still think that these internal distinctions among things like "reviews," "blog posts," and "restaurant profiles" matter, or are even noticed, in the real world.