Fox & Obel--Rant and Heads Up

I shop at Fox & Obel too often probably. I am addicted to their baguettes, steaks, cheese, etc. I live near Grand and Ogden and, honestly, on nights after Bari is closed, F&O is easier (and more appealing) to deal with than any other grocery option. Quick shot up Grand to Illinois, park for free right across the street, in and out with a steak, a baguette, and an overpriced plastic box of arugula in no time. I can accomplish in a half hour what a trip to the Whole Foods from Hell would take me an hour and a quarter at a minimum. (Should I branch out and explore smaller, cheaper, more exciting ethnic shopping options? Yes, and I do, but just sometimes on a Wednesday at 7:45, I am not feeling so adventurous.)

So last night, 6:30, list in hand, I pulled up to Illinois and McClurg to see the whole, massive parking lot surrounded by fencing and signage announcing a new condo development coming soon. One of the signs directed me to the AMC parking lot (otherwise known as the pits of hell) for my 90 free minutes of F&O parking. I went back to grand and headed for Binny's for a sausage, a Red Hen baguette, and some cheese instead of the salmon I was after. I cannot imagine parking in that underground labyrinth and dealing with the movie crowds just to buy a steak. I won't, probably. I suppose this is a blessing in disguise.

Anyway, heads up.

kl5,

I don't blame you for not wanting to park in the AMC lot, who would. On the rare occasion that I am driving to Fox & Obel, I almost always just park on McClurg (right in front of the building). They have a 15 (I think) minute loading zone that you can use while you shop as long as you put your hazards on. Sounds like you know what you want when you walk in, so this seems like the perfect solution.

trixie-pea

I will admit that parking at the AMC lot would be a little inconvenient compared to the short walk from the outdoor lot and I'm not happy to hear this news, but I guess things could be worse. Getting out of the AMC lot is really only difficult on a weekend evening, and even then it's really not that bad. At least it's still 90 minutes and free. If I'm correct, Eatzi's only provides 30 minutes free parking and I think it's virtually impossible to park, go into Eatzi's, find what you want, pay for it, and leave the lot in 30 minutes.

If I was not that enamored w/ F&O, I might not put up with the slightly less convenient parking situation, but I do love the place . . . and particularly their excellent service.

An update on the F&O parking situation:

While you can still park in the AMC lot and validate, just yesterday they started up an alternate option. If you pull up right next to their exit, they now offer complimentary valet parking for up to 90 minutes. I'm not sure if there's some minimum purchase, but I've never found hitting a minimum purchase at F&O to be a terribly difficult proposition

I haven't tried it out yet, but it's nice to know they're trying to provide convenient alternatives. In talking to some of the staff, it sounds as though the loss of their old lot was somewhat sudden and unexpected, and they're sort of scrambling to compensate. My understanding is that the valet offer is being done on a trial basis, so be sure to let them know if you approve.

Dmnkly wrote:If you pull up right next to their exit, they now offer complimentary valet parking for up to 90 minutes. I'm not sure if there's some minimum purchase

Dmnkly,

According to the sign there is a minimum purchase, but, like you, I've never had much trouble spending money at F and O.

Since I was only running in to see if they carried Truffle Salt I parked in the 15-minute ~flasher~ zone. I, of course, got sidetracked and bought a couple of duck breasts and bread, along with Truffle Salt, so was probably gone maybe 25-minutes with no problem.

Enjoy,
Gary

We went to Fox and Obel yesterday and had no problem with the valet parking ( this included getting 2 small children out of the car while they were waiting). The staff was very friendly and helpful. I did not see any signs for "minimum" purchase.

My only slight complaint was that there was a small line waiting to get their cars dropped back off. Luckily, our car was parked right at the exit and the staff got us our keys right away (after seeing my husband looking for them)...I am not sure how long the others had to wait. Now remember, this is an opinion coming from a mother of 2 after grocery shopping so time is of great essence!

Overall, I think they are trying to do all they can do to remedy the parking situation and I applaud them for acting so quickly.

This seems like the most appropriate thread for my overdue account of The Great War Against Fox & Obel, the second most evil food purveyor in all the land. Similarly to what our nation's founders did before declaring a war of their own, I have listed what I believe are self-evident truths about food shopping, and then recounted the barbaric ways in which this malevolent grocer has violated each of them.

Self-Evident Truths:
1) In the course of buying goods, buyers are endowed with the unalienable right to honest information about those goods.
2) To secure this right, grocery stores were created by the people, and derive their power from the fact that people continue to trust them.
3) Whenever any form of grocery store becomes destructive to these ends, the people have a right to lambast said grocery store all across the internet.

The history of Fox & Obel is a history of repeated injuries. To prove this, let facts be presented to the candid internet.
- It lists a "Packed On" date for its cheeses that is often several days into the future. On April 3, one could find cheese on the shelf that said "Packed on April 8".
- When confronted with this misinformation, it's management repeatedly cited a "technical error" and promised to get it fixed. Months and several additional complaints later, the dishonestly labeled cheeses persisted.
- It labels a type of charcuterie "San Daniele Prosciutto," indicative of a high quality imported Italian meat. When asked by a patron about the authenticity of this cheap-looking deli meat, its deli man swore that he gets the imported prosciutto in every week. When pressed further, its deli man produced a label which read "San Daniele Brand" with fine print showing it was made by Canada's large "Santa Maria" deli meat manufacturer.
- When milk purchased in its dairy case spoiled long before the printed expiration date, a patron returned to check the dairy case thermometer, which read 50 degrees.


I, therefore, in the name of all annoying, obsessive-compulsive shoppers like me, do solemnly declare that Fox & Obel is full of shit, and that I will continue to shop there in protest only because the bread is great and its close to my office.

Kenny,

Since you are a long term shopper there. Was it a better shopping experience before they were sold?

What was their reaction to the refrigerator temperature? More importantly, is it fixed?

Imported from Canada is an import, though not from where a casual customer would expect. I dislike these disinformation tactics.

Regards,

Good question. I didn't pay much attention when the sale happened, so I don't have any real insight about that. My overall impression, however, has always been that Fox & Obel was a pretender from inception: with high-end products and a scattering of knowledgeable people, but either no training or worthless training for the rest of the staff, and a careless attitude about proper food storage (I will note that today the dairy case thermometer read 35 degrees). They sell "fresh foie gras" lobes, but I can never get a straight answer about when they arrived at the store, let alone when they were processed. I've noted elsewhere what a miserable job they do slicing lox, and almost every time I go into the store I hand a worker something expired that I found on the shelf. Those examples don't even scratch the surface of all that's wrong with the store.

As somebody who was once an avid F&O shopper, I'm of the opinion that the place was once great, but recent visits have soured me.

How much is attributable to the sale, how much to the economy (places like this get hit especially hard, I would think), and how much to the small sample since I no longer live in Chicago, I can't say.

I never shopped at F&O much because it isn't convenient. But the few times I've been there I've been shocked by how terrible the produce is. I was initially impressed that you could try olive oils there and make an informed decision. But on more than one occasion there was no bread or cups with which to taste the oil. Plus, they didn't have any of the good stuff open for tasting. Finally, the prices on some of the packaged food makes Whole Foods seem like Cermack Produce.

One time I was at Fox & Obel shortly after they opened in the morning. I was waiting for some cheese to be cut and noticed a very large pool of water under the refrigerated case where their raw meat is stored. The pool was so big I thought I was hallucinating, so I walked over to take a closer look. It was indeed as large as I thought.

I walked back and reported to the cheese guy that there was "a flood" in the meat section. I acknowledge that my language may have sounded hyperbolic; the guy somewhat dismissed my comment, saying he'd send someone to take a look, in no real rush to do so, it seemed. After handing me all of the cheese I had ordered, he walked around, saw the water and realized I wasn't exaggerating. He promptly went off to find someone to remedy the situation. I didn't stick around to see what happened next.

Besides cheese cut to order, I don't typically buy dairy from Fox & Obel, but I did bring to their attention once expired yogurt I had eyed.

I wish I could give up Fox & Obel--I'm an occasional/semi-regular shopper--but I don't think I can yet. I like that they open early and close late; are a simple bus ride from home and close to work when I'm at my downtown office; have excellent bread and very good pastry, a respectable selection of cheese, a cafe with decent food (and value) in a neighborhood where options can be very limited; and sell Paris Caramels, for which I have a costly weakness.

happy_stomach wrote:...
I walked back and reported to the cheese guy that there was "a flood" in the meat section. I acknowledge that my language may have sounded hyperbolic; the guy somewhat dismissed my comment, saying he'd send someone to take a look, in no real rush to do so,...

"In no rush" to fix problems is a common theme. The first time I pointed out that at least half of the cheeses were labeled "Packed On" a future date, the manager gave me the "technical error" answer. A day or two later, no change, and I asked the same dude about it again. He reiterated the bit about the system not working right and how he had called someone from the labeling company or something. Then he gave me a shrug and a "what can I do but wait?" look. As politely as I could, I explained that I thought the pretty obvious answer was to remove the prepackaged, mislabeled stuff from the shelf, and only sell cheese cut to order until they could figure out how to produce truthful labels. Knowingly trying to sell a product with a dishonest label was not a reasonable option, I explained. It wasn't until months later when I pulled out my newfangled phone with internet capability, showed him that I had looked up the number for various government regulatory bodies, and started dialing, that he started to take this seriously.

Kennyz wrote:

happy_stomach wrote:...
I walked back and reported to the cheese guy that there was "a flood" in the meat section. I acknowledge that my language may have sounded hyperbolic; the guy somewhat dismissed my comment, saying he'd send someone to take a look, in no real rush to do so,...

"In no rush" to fix problems is a common theme. The first time I pointed out that at least half of the cheeses were labeled "Packed On" a future date, the manager gave me the "technical error" answer. A day or two later, no change, and I asked the same dude about it again. He reiterated the bit about the system not working right and how he had called someone from the labeling company or something. Then he gave me a shrug and a "what can I do but wait?" look. As politely as I could, I explained that I thought the pretty obvious answer was to remove the prepackaged, mislabeled stuff from the shelf, and only sell cheese cut to order until they could figure out how to produce truthful labels. Knowingly trying to sell a product with a dishonest label was not a reasonable option, I explained. It wasn't until months later when I pulled out my newfangled phone with internet capability, showed him that I had looked up the number for various government regulatory bodies, and started dialing, that he started to take this seriously.

You should have a TV show.

happy_stomach wrote:

Kennyz wrote:

happy_stomach wrote:...
I walked back and reported to the cheese guy that there was "a flood" in the meat section. I acknowledge that my language may have sounded hyperbolic; the guy somewhat dismissed my comment, saying he'd send someone to take a look, in no real rush to do so,...

"In no rush" to fix problems is a common theme. The first time I pointed out that at least half of the cheeses were labeled "Packed On" a future date, the manager gave me the "technical error" answer. A day or two later, no change, and I asked the same dude about it again. He reiterated the bit about the system not working right and how he had called someone from the labeling company or something. Then he gave me a shrug and a "what can I do but wait?" look. As politely as I could, I explained that I thought the pretty obvious answer was to remove the prepackaged, mislabeled stuff from the shelf, and only sell cheese cut to order until they could figure out how to produce truthful labels. Knowingly trying to sell a product with a dishonest label was not a reasonable option, I explained. It wasn't until months later when I pulled out my newfangled phone with internet capability, showed him that I had looked up the number for various government regulatory bodies, and started dialing, that he started to take this seriously.

You should have a TV show.

I would call that show "Cheaters."

BR wrote:

happy_stomach wrote:

Kennyz wrote:It wasn't until months later when I pulled out my newfangled phone with internet capability, showed him that I had looked up the number for various government regulatory bodies, and started dialing, that he started to take this seriously.

You should have a TV show.

I would call that show "Cheaters."

I would call that show "KennyZ's F Word"

I have fond memories of Fox n Obel, in fact I've held them up as a paragon of high end perishables retail. I could rethink that. I enjoyed my handful of times shopping there years ago. Good cheeses(assy fromager), strong selection of olives(I loved the Pernod marinated ones), great baguettes, laughable prices on ethnic goods(3 bucks, I think, for some Chaokah coconut milk back in the day!). I assume my appreciation stems from before the sale.

Not defending Fox n Obel, a word about labeling and specialty cheese:

A typical perishables department might contain subsidiary departments within it's framework. i.e. a deli offers a pasta salad from a service case and the same pasta salad as a pre-packed item from an outer case. These items are differentiated by coded labels. One label might read "packed on" (the service case) the other, "sell-by" (the self-service case). Some employees easily mix the two labels up.

Cheese is always labeled with a "sell-by" date. It does no service for the customer to read a "packed-on" when it comes to specialty cheese. Of course, and this is the main point, specialty cheese is a judgement call. Since cheese is the controlled putrefaction of milk, one (the affineur, the fromager, the consumer) must use one's critical faculties to assess the relative integrity of the product. And any good cheesemongerer will offer you a sample or three. I've had a few instances where certain irascible customers will demand a wedge cut from a "pristine" wheel when I already have several perfectly fine specimens on offer. Just because the "sell-by" date is nigh. The joke is...when it comes to cheese and it's variability(it is alive afterall) when that "sell-by" date comes around I make a judgement call and often re-wrap the cheese in question giving it a few more days. Or, I sample it out.

As far as the dairy cooler temperature issue mentioned above. That's a board of health issue and should first be addressed to the manager. An ethical manager would immediately pull all product stored in that cooler.

As far as the "flood" beneath the meat case. Addressing the issue to the cheesemongerer is great, but...that's entering into a ("what? me worry?") scenario. Depending on intrastore departmental politics, that cheesemongerer could care less what's viewed as a meat department issue. He's got his own row to hoe. My .02

anyway, sad to hear Fox n Obel's been going downhill these last few years
I enjoyed shopping there once upon a time

Interesting thread. Within a couple weeks of F&O's opening, I was appalled to purchase a perishable product that had a sell-by date which was prior to the store's opening...I guess the problems have existed since its inception.

Kennyz wrote:I, therefore, in the name of all annoying, obsessive-compulsive shoppers like me, do solemnly declare that Fox & Obel is full of shit, and that I will continue to shop there in protest only because the bread is great and its close to my office.

I stop in F&O a few times a week for my morning coffee & croissant on my way to work. I'm VERY relieved to read that you still approve of their bakery even after all of these transgressions. I can't afford to buy anything else there anyway, so I guess it's no skin off my back.

The bakery is wonderful, although I felt that the frosting on their cupcakes is a little to heavy for my liking. I do like that they sell coffee at the bakery now rather than making you walk all the way back to the cafe.

Fox & Obel disappoints me more and more every time I'm in. It was once high end gourmet, now I would consider it to be a convenience grocery store more than something I'd go out of my way to buy high end products at. Why? They don't seem to have an updated selection of what is "gourmet" in 2010.

About a year ago I went in to buy ketchup. I consume no high fructose corn syrup products when possible, but shockingly they ONLY stock regular Heinz. They don't stock organic Heinz ketchup, or any conventional ketchup that's made with real sugar and not HFCS. Meanwhile, Whole Foods ONLY stocks the non-high fructose corn syrup varieties, and not only do they stock it, they have about 5-6 choices at even the smallest of stores. Fox & Obel by comparison has *zero* conventional non-high fructose corn syrup ketchup choices. By "conventional" I'll add that they do have a higher end "country ketchup" that's in a glass jar, but that's $8. And they have not one, but two varieties of HFCS Heinz. The prices on their non-organic HFCS ketchup are actually higher than the real-sugar counterparts that Whole Foods sells. Even Dominick's has a better selection, and likely better pricing (which is a problem for them, considering there is now a Dominick's a block away). I was so annoyed I literally abandoned my cart and left. I even sent management a note that I found this appalling.



That's just one particular item. You could extend the same "this isn't as high end as other grocery stores in the area" argument to many other items they stock. (for instance, their selection of only regular Hellmann's Mayo which is also in that picture--which I have no problem with--but again other stores offer better gourmet options at the same price point)

We bought 4 of the Fox & Obel Groupon a month or two ago, so I've been in a few times more than usual lately. Fast forward a year and nothing has changed. I'm not out to change the world, but it seems like a fairly simple request. I know without question based off of experience that Whole Foods would respond and attempt to stock something if it were reasonable and available. They never even bothered to respond.

Along the same token, nearly all products they carry that Whole Foods carries, Whole Foods is at least 20-30% cheaper on everything I noticed.

Their meat case to me doesn't look that appealing on most days. Their produce selection on some days is not looking so hot. Last visit there was a section that was so wet everything was dripping and water logged.

With a Dominick's a block away from there, I think F&O is probably having some mid-life crisis of what market to appeal to. They have very limited shelf space and it seems they're missing their mark in a lot of categories.

Interesting comments. Thanks for the heads-up on the perishables.

This is my local grocery store. My impressions:

1. The meat and fish are still very good. The other options in the neighborhood are Dominick's (not bad for what it is) and Treasure Island (no way I would eat fish or meat from there. They had problems in the past and I just don't trust that they really understand the urgency of the matters).

2. Fruits/vegetables are hit and miss. Often the selection is good, but quality is average at best. No reason to pay a premium for their stuff.

3. Bakery. Still wonderful.

4. Wine. They stopped selling really high end wine [no more Krug], but luckily the wine store across the street actually has some good stuff and the prices are reasonable. It means I have one more stop, but that's OK.

5. Deli. Overpriced but if I'm in a hurry, I deal with it. Quality is good but not great.

6. Staff: It does seem like the quality of the staff has declined. Very hit and miss. The wine guys are very good, when staff is found in fruits/vegetables they can be very helpful. Need coffee ground? It may take a while, and you may get attitude.

7. Cafe: WAY overpriced. The burger used to be good, now is basically a pile of salt with a bit of meat sprinkled on top. Breakfast is good, but takes forever. Yolk opened one block away. Hopefully competition is good.

Good news: all the cheese has been properly labeled for several weeks now.

More good news: the morons in charge of labeling and other such things have programmed it so that the high quality, hand-picked saffron that's supposed to be $12.99 and is labeled as such on the shelf rings up as $4.49 instead. After discovereing this my first time through the register, I went right back to the shelf and bought all 5 packages that remained. Perhaps they'll order more and some of you can take advantage of the ineptitude too. Or you can buy a package from me for $11.99.

Kennyz wrote:Good news: all the cheese has been properly labeled for several weeks now.

More good news: the morons in charge of labeling and other such things have programmed it so that the high quality, hand-picked saffron that's supposed to be $12.99 and is labeled as such on the shelf rings up as $4.49 instead. After discovereing this my first time through the register, I went right back to the shelf and bought all 5 packages that remained. Perhaps they'll order more and some of you can take advantage of the ineptitude too. Or you can buy a package from me for $11.99.

Sorry, that does not pass my customer ethics standard....
While I'm no saint, I think going back and cleaning them out is just wrong

mhill95149 wrote:

Kennyz wrote:Good news: all the cheese has been properly labeled for several weeks now.

More good news: the morons in charge of labeling and other such things have programmed it so that the high quality, hand-picked saffron that's supposed to be $12.99 and is labeled as such on the shelf rings up as $4.49 instead. After discovereing this my first time through the register, I went right back to the shelf and bought all 5 packages that remained. Perhaps they'll order more and some of you can take advantage of the ineptitude too. Or you can buy a package from me for $11.99.

Sorry, that does not pass my customer ethics standard....
While I'm no saint, I think going back and cleaning them out is just wrong

Agreed. Now I have to go elsewhere & pay full price. You should have stashed a couple behind some cereal boxes, then sent me a PM letting me know where to find them, as I'm currently running low.

Cool. Less competition when they get the next shipment in.

Kennyz wrote:Cool. Less competition when they get the next shipment in.

And how do you know that they didn't have another box in the back?? You're slowing down in your old age sir. You might have been able to set up yourself up on the Merc or something...

mhill95149 wrote:

Kennyz wrote:Good news: all the cheese has been properly labeled for several weeks now.

More good news: the morons in charge of labeling and other such things have programmed it so that the high quality, hand-picked saffron that's supposed to be $12.99 and is labeled as such on the shelf rings up as $4.49 instead. After discovereing this my first time through the register, I went right back to the shelf and bought all 5 packages that remained. Perhaps they'll order more and some of you can take advantage of the ineptitude too. Or you can buy a package from me for $11.99.

Sorry, that does not pass my customer ethics standard....
While I'm no saint, I think going back and cleaning them out is just wrong

That was my initial thought too, until I read back his prior posts. When he pointed out the problems with labeling, they pretty much told him to "pound sand." Not exactly ethical conduct by them. I don't blame him.

You'll also note upthread that I declared war months ago. Normal ethics don't apply during wartime.

Kennyz wrote:You'll also note upthread that I declared war months ago. Normal ethics don't apply during wartime.

Justify it any way you wish but please try and hold yourself to a higher standard next time.

and maybe some day we will see a WWKzD? tee-shirt

If F&O manipulates labels to their benefit, sort of tough to tell the cutomer not to do the same.
They screwed customers by putting a bad date on the product.
Customer screwed F&O by taking their labe (price) for face value.
Both times, it was F&O improper labeling. They made money in the first, lost in the second.
Seems fair.