eatchicago wrote:

DML wrote:What suspicion is that?

The suspicion that Chef GEB's response was outrageously disproportionate. There was no insult. No one can quote one. In fact, I can't find a quote that even halfway meets the definition of "self indulgent".

So, we're talking about the tone of the piece, or the writing quality or something. Clearly a subjective measurement since I thought the piece was generally very positive toward him and the food.

Unless there's a hidden insult in there, I'm being told that he didn't like the tone of a blog post about a private party he threw to show off some fancy food for a $200/ticket rock concert. Because of that, the writer deserves a public "F--- YOU" and a smear campaign across every food-related site in the city that'll let Chef GEB post.

It's beyond absurd. It's immoral.

Subjective, yes. I don't know that he ever said Chicago Magazine was objectively terrible, and all of this took place on TWITTER, which is absurd as most celebrities and pseudo-celebs use it to ponder extremely mundane stuff and RT all of the most inane pr-type crap they can get someone to pay them for.

Immoral? In my humble opinion, that is getting dramatic.

I'm sure she has gotten more pageviews on this blogpost than most of the other things she's written lately, and ChiMag has not fired her or punished her. Why is it immoral?

eatchicago wrote:

DML wrote:What suspicion is that?

The suspicion that Chef GEB's response was outrageously disproportionate. There was no insult. No one can quote one. In fact, I can't find a quote that even halfway meets the definition of "self indulgent".

So, we're talking about the tone of the piece, or the writing quality or something. Clearly a subjective measurement since I thought the piece was generally very positive toward him and the food.

Unless there's a hidden insult in there, I'm being told that he didlike the tone of a blog post about a private party he threw to show off some fancy food for a $200/ticket rock concert. Because of that, the writer deserves a public "F--- YOU" and a smear campaign across every food-related site in the city that'll let Chef GEB post.

It's beyond absurd. It's immoral.

Welcome to the world. A lot of things are subjective. That doesn't diminish them. I agree with him on the tone. As noted above, it had "Toby" all over it. Banal, going for witty.

With regard to "immoral":
Starving orphans is immoral.
Making rude comments to a critic? Not immoral.
Let's keep things in context here.

DML wrote:Welcome to the world. A lot of things are subjective. That doesn't diminish them. I agree with him on the tone. As noted above, it had "Toby" all over it. Banal, going for witty.

Yes, a lot of things are subjective. That doesn't make it right to attack people. (Also, "banal" means "common" or "obvious". Not exactly self-indulgent or insulting.)

DML wrote:With regard to "immoral":
Starving orphans is immoral.
Making rude comments to a critic? Not immoral.
Let's keep things in context here.

I could not disagree with you more. Morality questions, questions about standards of behavior based on what's right or wrong, exist irrespective of scale. Stealing a dollar from kid at a lemonade stand is immoral. So was Bernie Madoff. I believe that ChefGEB's behavior in this "incident" has been wrong when judged against basic standards of what's right and wrong. Immoral.

I know what banal means. It ties in with the other concepts pretty well.
They were tedious boring little snips. That's it, and nothing more.
And we are going to have to disagree on the concept of morality.
Perhaps GEB was rude. But I don't equate rude with immoral. Morality has to mean more than just "not rude."
In any case, I've made my point. No reason to continue a discussion that has become redundant.

Let's see. We're at four pages now. What are my odds on this being shut down at, oh, say, eight (to pick a totally random number out of thin air)?

Gypsy Boy wrote:Let's see. We're at four pages now. What are my odds on this being shut down at, oh, say, eight (to pick a totally random number out of thin air)?

Plotnicki. Plotnicki. Plotnicki. </turns around thrice, throws salt over left shoulder, pours truffle oil on ground>

Gypsy Boy wrote:Let's see. We're at four pages now. What are my odds on this being shut down at, oh, say, eight (to pick a totally random number out of thin air)?

I'm not in favor of shutting down threads unless the conversation is becoming nasty or it's in violation of some posting guideline. It seems if people are still interested in adding to it, the thread should stay open.

David Hammond wrote:

Gypsy Boy wrote:Let's see. We're at four pages now. What are my odds on this being shut down at, oh, say, eight (to pick a totally random number out of thin air)?

I'm not in favor of shutting down threads unless the conversation is becoming nasty or it's in violation of some posting guideline. It seems if people are still interested in adding to it, the thread should stay open.

And to clarify my prior note -- I sure was not suggesting that the thread should be shut down. I was just suggesting that I personally was shutting down my comments on it. I don't find anything remotely offensive in any of the comments. No reason to shut down if people have stuff to add, but other than to clarify my "no need to continue the discussion" comment, I don't have anything to add.

David, you mistake my intent. I was not encouraging the closing of the thread. Only making an oblique (possibly too oblique) reference to a similar wager in another thread in which the thread had become a meta-thread and where the same points of view were hashed, re-hashed, and triply hashed to no discernible benefit.

If repetition be the food of critics, write on. And on. And on. And on. And on.

DML wrote:I don't find anything remotely offensive in any of the comments...

I find some of my comments offensive.

Gypsy Boy wrote:David, you mistake my intent. I was not encouraging the closing of the thread. Only making an oblique (possibly too oblique) reference to a similar wager in another thread in which the thread had become a meta-thread and where the same points of view were hashed, re-hashed, and triply hashed to no discernible benefit.

If repetition be the food of critics, write on. And on. And on. And on. And on.

I seem to remember what you're referring to, but whenever there's a discussion like this that seems to go on longer than some think it should, there's talk of shutting it down when the simpler solution, if you're bored, is to simply stop reading.

Aw, i have to take back my comment about cassie's dig on the taste starting things off on the wrong foot.

Apparently ChefGEB made the same comment...

In video 2: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-baze ... 57100.html

Mike G wrote:Seriously, it seems like the smart PR groups— at least the ones that seem smart to me— are looking beyond these old ways of doing stuff, which one notes a bit morosely were probably rooted in the fact that the people you hoped to educate long-term actually had long-term jobs writing about this stuff.

Well, yes. But you never know where journalists are going to wind up -- it's always been a peripatetic profession. And the large number of freelancers nowadays means that one press event seat may get a publicist ink in multiple publications over time, not to mention tweets, Facebook mentions and discussion on food forums. As you noted upthread, it's about creating buzz. Do they get their money's worth? This time, I'd say they did.

The other purpose of such events, of course, is to create relationships between the publicists and their principals and the people who write about them. That's a kind of symbiosis that helps both sides.

I once spent a couple of years covering news in a town whose mayor refused to speak to me, ever. I did the best I could, working around him, and (fortunately for me) my editors were understanding and pleased with the results, but trust me, the public did not get as good a look at government's goings on there as did readers in the adjoining community where I had a decent working relationship with the public officials.

Note that phrase: "working relationship." Having a face-to-face understanding of the people I was writing about did not mean we were BFF, nor did it keep me from writing about inappropriate actions by either town, but in the second case, I was able to find out about them sooner and delve much more deeply and effectively into the causes, whereas in the first town I could only present the opposition's point of view and "Village President S-- T-- could not be reached for comment."

MJN wrote:Or like I said a few minutes ago on Twitter, a chef serving terrible food at a media preview is like a politician having sex with his mistress at the offices of the National Enquirer. It probably won’t happen.

It happens all the time ... and very educational can be, too. For example, the restaurant that held a press event to tout its local, market-driven cuisine, and then served asparagus ... in October.

I went to a food writers' conference once at which dinner was all but uneatable -- and the restaurant knew months ahead that it would be hosting influential writers from across the country.

I'm glad that GEB's hard-working kitchen elves can turn out an impressive preview product for the city's culinary glitterati. What actually gets served to festival-goers is things like Sunda's bao -- filled with tender, juicy pork belly made nearly inedible from a truly ridiculous amount of salt (what seemed like a half a bottle of soy sauce).

There are three bao to an order, for a very reasonable $9. Like I said, the filling is very juicy and by the time you get to the third bun it has basically disintegrated. So I guess it's Cassie Walker 1, GEB 0.

Way to go, cilantro. You've turned what's supposed to be a fun concert with chef-driven food that showcases what a terrific city Chicago is into an opportunity to criticize bao. How small-minded of you.

[Dons the garb of a fourth-rate Joan Rivers covering the Daytime Emmys]

Kuma's is ... well, Kuma's. You know what you're getting when you're at the restaurant, and what's served at the fest is almost exactly the same only slightly worse because all burgers are cooked medium well. Big problem: When I say "almost exactly the same", I mean it. You get a huge, full-size Kuma's burger, just like at the restaurant. What happened to the sliders preview audiences were treated to*? TOC complained that they were hard to eat standing up, so instead we're given hubcap-size burgers that require at least two hands to hold? At a hot, crowded outdoor festival?

I still got one, because 1) this is as close to Kuma's as I've been able to get in at least a year; 2) I am very, very stupid. But after eating a Kuma's burger, you want to take a nice nap, not stand for hours in the blazing sun. God, I'm stupid.

GEB's much discussed lobster corn dog: I'm glad I tried it, I guess, but once was enough. For some reason I assumed it would be a battered, deep-fried piece of lobster. In fact, it's a lobster croquette, with much more croquette than lobster. And it's slathered in mayo (+1 Cassie). Plus, when the batter came off, it turned out that mine was apparently encased in a condom. Anyway, who decided that deep-fried + lots of mayo + punishing heat is a winning formula? Why don't more stands sell things like GEB's watermelon gazpacho? It was tasty and refreshing, the ideal thing to eat at an event like this.

After sampling two of Hoosier Mama's "pie shakes", I'm still not sure how I feel about them.




*As will surprise only the extremely naive, the food served at the preview party was considerably different and more refined than its ultimate incarnation. The above-mentioned sliders are now full-size and have lost the fried egg. Big Star's sopes have morphed into tostadas. The lobster corn dog pictured at TOC has about ten times as much lobster as mine did. Etc.

cilantro wrote:Anyway, who decided that deep-fried + lots of mayo + punishing heat is a winning formula?

Three words: F%@k Cilantro Magazine.

No need for a whole magazine for that... Craigslist still works fine.

Some quick data points:

Kuma's lines were extreme compared to the other vendors, every time I looked. Other posters' contrary experience must have been during odd hours. Also, the "Kuma" didn't have egg from what I saw, so it wasn't really. That said, the burgers they were turning out looked mighty fine.

GE lobster corn dog I tried wasn't skimpy on the crustacean at all. Nor was it overly slathered in mayo. Worked really well IMO.

A scant 10 yards away from the epic Kumas line was Frank's N Dawgs, with depressingly no line, ever. This place worked spectacularly for a fest. The brats and andouille were, if anything, better than eating in the brick and mortar HQ. I guess Kuma's has had so much rock n roll cred for such a long time, the kids were going to line up for it no matter what. That and America at large doesn't understand gourmet sausage yet.

The beer/wine vendor situation at Lolla. is terrible. Lots of tents, so no lines. But do I really need a 16 oz can of Bud Light Lime ASAP? The ersatz biergarten is too little, too far from the music, and no great shakes at all. Stella and Hoegaarden was a relief. I suppose Big Beer will never allow it, but I'd like to see the Daley company impose its iron will on the fest to do to the beverage tents what they did with the food. It's a golden age for Chicagoland/Midwestern brewing right now and it would make sense to share it with the fest-goers. Can't imagine better marketing for small companies with limited budgets for such things. They could keep the Bud tents, which would still do 90% of the biz and add a tent with the locals.

Last, while the lineups are not my favorite for these things, and the charm of standing in mud in searing heat is starting to wear off in my old age, the City and the Lolla folks do an infinitely better job with logistics than the other big music fests. (pencil in a few hours for standing in line at the port a let if you ever go to Bonnaroo). Chicago really knows how to move huge numbers of people into and out of parks in relative comfort.

I had the same experience as JeffB yesterday--no line for what was definitely my favorite Lolla food item--the Franks and Dawg's Cheddarhead (I think it was called)--brat with white cheddar, portobello mushrooms and i think grilled onions on the Nicole's bun. I was sharing it with a friend and we were watching each other carefully to make sure neither of us took more than our share

And the only lines I saw for food were for Kuma's and Robinson's Ribs (egad people!!).

Had a great time at Lollapalooza this year. I really appreciated the effort put into providing much better food options compared to previous years.

Kuma's offered the Kuma Burger sans egg, Judas Priest and Iron Maiden. Depending on the time of day, the wait was anywhere from none to 40 minutes. Burgers were done medium to medium well unfortunately, but I'm okay with that. It's a music festival and I was there for the music. That I was able to get Kuma burgers each day of the fest and share with locals and out-of-towners who've never been makes me giddy.

Comment from Japanese friend after first Judas Priest bite: "Kuma is Japanese for bear. Never tasted a burger this good before. Very nice."

The lobster corn dog is a sausage in a thin shell of batter. It was a pleasure to bite into. The casing had a nice snap and was filled with unevenly chopped lobster chunks. At about 3 inches long, I initially thought that it was steep at $9 ($1 more and I can get a Kuma) but one bite quickly changed my mind.

The crispy coating somehow managed to stay on the sausage instead of shattering and falling off. My serving had the right balance of aioli and heat and I could still pick up a faint corn flavor. It wasn't slathered as you'll see in my photo links below.

Big Star's pork belly tostadas were meatier than I expected. It was served on a tostada slathered with black bean and topped with onions and queso fresco. Lots of red grease around the plate, which may be off-putting to some but definitely not with me.

Photos:
Judas Priest
Lobster Corn Dog
Pork Belly Tostadas

My corn dog was also topped with an artful drizzle of mayo, but unfortunately it had been plopped into a pool of the stuff as well. Lots of scraping ensued. And I guess I was the only one who received a free prophylactic with his?

One place (I think it was Blue 13) had little pork belly and kimchi sandwiches that were pretty tasty and I appreciated Big Star's fruit salad. But the best thing I ate at the festival involved walking a couple of blocks to Cafecito.

cilantro wrote:But the best thing I ate at the festival involved walking a couple of blocks to Cafecito.

Cafecito is a great place that only gets better. My revelation was Miller's Pub, a place I hadn't been in years [edit, thinking back, I have been but not for a sit-down meal, just a drink]. Maybe I had very low expectations, but I thought it was several notches higher than the typical Loop Greek diner -- from the beer selection to the bread basket and salad on chilled pewter, to the Friday lake perch special ($10 for a plate of perch and latkes that would be legit in Wisconsin or Michigan) and clam chowder. The house-made tartar sauce is probably the best I've tasted (ok, so it's tartar sauce, but it was good). Add in the cave-like darkness, icy A/C, and oil portraits of old drunks, and you've got me.

cilantro wrote:My corn dog was also topped with an artful drizzle of mayo, but unfortunately it had been plopped into a pool of the stuff as well. Lots of scraping ensued. And I guess I was the only one who received a free prophylactic with his?

I had a lobster corn dog Saturday night that had been sitting around for far too long. The casing was kind of reminiscent of a condom. It was really disappointing and not nearly as good as last year's version, I thought, but that might have been due to getting one around 8 pm or a bit later after their dinner rush.

cilantro wrote:And I guess I was the only one who received a free prophylactic with his?

It's casing. For sausages. Had no idea that its resemblance to condoms is such a big news flash.

The casing is likely the natural kind. Like other similar tubular encasements, it pops when you bite into it. Some people like that snap.

Carly did what she had to to earn back her media dinner invitations.

Kennyz wrote:Carly did what she had to to earn back her media dinner invitations.

Did Carly Fisher transgress as well as Cassie Walker? Or are they both nomes de guerre for Maura Brannigan?

Santander wrote:

Kennyz wrote:Carly did what she had to to earn back her media dinner invitations.

Did Carly Fisher transgress as well as Cassie Walker? Or are they both nomes de guerre for Maura Brannigan?

I've met Maura Brannigan and CarlyFisherCassieWalker is no Maura Brannigan

Maura, if you're still checking in here, our apologies.

Santander wrote:

Kennyz wrote:Carly did what she had to to earn back her media dinner invitations.

Did Carly Fisher transgress as well as Cassie Walker? Or are they both nomes de guerre for Maura Brannigan?

Carly Fisher, Cassie Walker, Lebron James, Britney Spears. The whole internet is just big cut and paste job, so how am I supposed to keep track of who wrote what?

I'm just glad that an important topic like locavorism is able to sustain such a lengthy discussion.

LAZ wrote:

Mike G wrote:Seriously, it seems like the smart PR groups— at least the ones that seem smart to me— are looking beyond these old ways of doing stuff, which one notes a bit morosely were probably rooted in the fact that the people you hoped to educate long-term actually had long-term jobs writing about this stuff.

Well, yes. But you never know where journalists are going to wind up -- it's always been a peripatetic profession. SNIP

And I now know what peripatetic means. So some good was accomplished here.