Cathy2 wrote:A canning jar is good for six runs. Since most of my jars are inherited or purchased at rummage sale, I have no clue on their useable age. I stopped worrying about it long ago when I realized I could never keep track.

This is the first I've heard about the six-runs rule. When you say that you stopped worrying about it, does this mean you ignore the six-run rule, or that you only use jars that you know have been used less than six times?

nancy wrote:Next year, I want to hit it better with my cherry preserves. Any suggestions for getting a thicker product? I do not use any commercial pectins (only apples) and worked with Christine Ferber's style this year and decided she makes me crazy.

Christine Ferber's book drives me crazy also, but it is still my go-to book for jam. A fair number of my jams also come out too thin.

I've tried making the pectin stock, but I ended with apple syrup that didn't have much thickening power (but it was still useful as a syrup!). I think the key to making the pectin stock is to use under-ripe apples, which means that you probably should head to the pick-your-own-fruit orchard early in the season. I haven't done this yet, so I mainly stick to the recipes that don't call for pectin/pectin stock.

I think the keys to getting thicker jam in the no-pectin recipes are, first, to make sure you have some fruit that is a little under-ripe. Sometimes this is hard to do. At the least, try to avoid using all really soft fruit. Or, stick to recipes that contain at least some medium to high pectin fruit. Second, make sure you thicken the jam until it his 221 degrees. The temperature of the jam varies a lot within the pot, with the jam in the center much hotter than the jam on the outsides. So when I say that it is important to let the jam get to 221 degrees, you need to take the temperature in multiple places (and stir often).

Finally, I tell myself to accept some jam that is thinner than I'd like because (a) I'm making it myself and I'm not that experienced, and (b) I like the idea of not using commercial pectin and this is the necessary trade off.

Darren72 wrote:

Cathy2 wrote:A canning jar is good for six runs. Since most of my jars are inherited or purchased at rummage sale, I have no clue on their useable age. I stopped worrying about it long ago when I realized I could never keep track.

This is the first I've heard about the six-runs rule. When you say that you stopped worrying about it, does this mean you ignore the six-run rule, or that you only use jars that you know have been used less than six times?

I have hundreds of jars. Plus most were bought in the after market. I use them until they break, which doesn't happen to often.

Some old jars where the rings won't fit or they have air bubbles in the glass, I just use other ways. I have a number of zinc lids from an earlier era.

Regards,

Anybody have a source for single jars (other than thrift stores) particularly 8oz jelly jars? I want to can some carrot pickles (I was eating through my last few cans from last year, and discovered I really like them if they've had time to mellow) and I have 3 jars left: I only need 1 or 2 more. If I come home with another dozen jars, I don't know what my family will do (I've wound up being the canning version of the person who tries to find the lowest common denominator when buying hotdogs and hotdog buns - the sight of empty jars or loose fruits and vegetables sets me off...)

I did find the pint jars singly at Michael's craft store, where they're selling them as something you can put flower arrangements in (but they're Kerr canning jars.) I don't think I want pints of carrot coin pickles, though.

Hi,

I find thrift stores price individual jelly jars too high. Rummage sales are often begin high, I wait until they are ready to negotiate.

I could lend you a few jars to tie you over.

Regards,

Thank you, Cathy - I wound up breaking down and buying the 4-pack of wide mouth jars I'd been avoiding so as not to have incompatible lids. But I did make some nice carrot pickles, in lovely colors (the purple ones stain the brine, but it looks pretty anyway) Wound up with one too many jars, but I think I can live with that.

Made a small batch (about 7 pints) of cranberry pomegranate sauce this morning. Now that I've had a lesson from my awesome mom about how to can, it doesn't scare me anymore. I used this recipe, modified somewhat (added fresh chopped ginger and cinnamon sticks and left out the pecans. http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Cranberry-Pomegranate-Sauce/Detail.aspx

The mis en place:


The lovely, ruby red sauce. There is no nicer sound to me now than hearing that little "pop" that lets me know that the jars all sealed!

Hi,

How long did you process it? What headspace?

If you are using non-tested recipes for canning, you will want to parallel known tested recipes. This link is to National Center for Home Food Preservation's cranberry sauce. Fortunately both apples and pomegranates are acidic. The real thinking begins when you mix non-acidic with acidic foods. Often you have to process as a low-acid product.

Ball sells a very handy dual-purpose tool to help remove air pockets and judge headspace depth. The handle has notches in 1/4-inch increments. It appears to be sold only in a kit with a jar lifter, funnel and the other really usefull too: magnet tipped lid lifter. Grabbing hot lids from a simmering saucepan is easy with this device.

Regards,

One month later, I finally get around to answering:

nancy wrote:Cathy--- Where on earth do you store all of your loot?

I live in a house built in 1905. At the bottom of the basement stairs was an oddly arranged closet with closely spaced deep shelves. It wasn't until I began canning 18 years ago did the real function of this closet reveal itself: canned goods. The height of the shelves accomodates one quart jars easily.

I also have a wine cellar, which we long called the dungeon, for storing boxed jars, supplies and some filled jars.

What is your thought about creating an anarobic (sp?) environment when submerging veggies (like the garlic thing mhays was referring to) in oil?

When you were referring to MHays, were you really meaning LAZ?

I agree their approach is best when it comes to low-acid foods where there's a risk of botulism, and that some old-fashioned methods are shockingly unsafe. (Or even new-fangled methods -- I continue to be surprised by the number of dangerous recipes I come across for garlic-flavored olive oil and pesto.)

If not, then please quote MHays directly.

When I was taking canning classes, there was a food poisoning issue related to a restaurant stocking chopped garlic in oil next to the stove. It was a little hot bed for C. botulinum, which was not readily apparent.

Canning recommendations for the home user suppose you are using water or vinegar. Oil's ability to transfer heat is different than water with no reliable information available to access for the home user. Commercial entities do it after doing quite a bit of time-heat studies for a reliable processing time plus additions of acid to suppress bacteria growth.

For some items like gardinera, I propose the vegetables are processed as pickles in a vinegar solution. When they want to use it, mix in the oil, store in the refrigerator and use in a short time period.

From an Illinois Extension newsletter are comments on infused oils:

If you like to make your own herb/garlic flavored oil mixtures, be aware of possible dangers if you do not use the latest safety recommendations. Commercially prepared concoctions contain additives like phosphoric acid or citric acid that prevent bacteria from growing. If you make flavored oil at home, keep it refrigerated and discard if not used within 10 days (updated 10/04).

Herbs and oils are both low-acid (pH<4.6) and can support the growth of the pathogenic C. botulinum bacteria. These bacteria, under the right conditions, produce a toxin that causes the extremely serious illness, botulism, in people who eat the tiniest amount of the toxin. Botulism is fatal in about 30 to 35 percent of cases.

Avoid making flavored oil that is potentially dangerous. Ideal conditions for the unwanted growth of C. botulinum include low acid environment (usually pH>4.6), anaerobic (oil provides an anaerobic environment), with enough available water and room temperatures.

These bacteria are found very commonly in soil, water and air. Surrounding these low-acid foods with oil creates an oxygen-free environment (anaerobic) that is perfect for the growth of the bacteria and formation of its toxin (poison). The safe and recommended method for making flavored oil follows:

Herb Flavored Oil - Cold Infusion Method

Choose very fresh herbs and a high quality oil with a neutral or mild taste. A typical recipe calls for one cup fresh herbs. Use your favorite herb or herb combination. Use a mild herb with a strong flavor for best results (rosemary and thyme) or use a single herb.

1-2 cups green herbs
1 cup oil (olive oil, walnut oil, etc.)

In a large 5 quart Dutch oven or blanching pot, bring 2 quarts water to a rolling boil.
Add herbs and push under boiling water with a long handled spoon.
Return water to a boil and blanch herbs, covered, for 5 minutes.
Meanwhile, prepare an ice water bath. After 5 minutes, remove herbs from boiling water using a strainer or slotted spoon. Drain slightly.
Immediately plunge herbs into ice water for 5 minutes. Drain well and squeeze out all excess water.
Place herbs in a blender and add oil. Puree until smooth.
Strain immediately through a fine-mesh strainer. Strain again through several layers of cheesecloth.
Cover tightly and refrigerate; use within 10 days. Updated October 2004.

I normally do not quote entire sections, but there were a few too many dead end links to this article.

Regards,

Hi,

If you are contemplating mango jams and chutneys, May through July is peak (and cheap) mangos.

I admit I have yet to ever make any, though I may just fit in some time this weekend.

Regards,

Hi,

I just saw this idea for canning a strawberry lemonade concentrate.

Strawberry Lemonade Concentrate!

This recipe is adapted from Ball's Complete Book of Home Preserving and makes approximately 3 quarts of canned concentrate with enough left over for a fresh glass for yourself. Just add ice.

6 cups strawberries, cleaned and hulled
4 cups freshly squeezed lemon juice
6 cups sugar

I make Concord grape juice, though I could see my family enjoying this beverage.

Regards,

Hi,

University of Oregon is the fish and seafood canning mecca for research based advice:

Canning Seafood, updated 2008
Home Canning Smoked Fish
Home Preservation of Fish - University of Ohio

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

I just saw this idea for canning a strawberry lemonade concentrate.

Strawberry Lemonade Concentrate!

This recipe is adapted from Ball's Complete Book of Home Preserving and makes approximately 3 quarts of canned concentrate with enough left over for a fresh glass for yourself. Just add ice.

6 cups strawberries, cleaned and hulled
4 cups freshly squeezed lemon juice
6 cups sugar

I make Concord grape juice, though I could see my family enjoying this beverage.

Regards,

I made this last week, when strawberries were on ultimate low clearance at Brookhaven Market. Conveniently enough, lemons were on sale too. I reduced the sugar a bit, but it's really refreshing - I imagine it would be good with blueberries or raspberries as well.

I just made some bread and butter pickles the other day and, after they were processed in a water bath, I noticed something that seems to happen a lot. The top of the pickles in the jar weren't covered by the liquid. The pickles were floating a little bit. The gap between the top of the liquid and the bottom of the lid was fine.

Like I said, this happens fairly often when I can pickles and I've never had any problems with the food once it has been opened. But I'm curious if this is common, if it is problematic, or if there is something different I should be doing.

Darren72 wrote:I just made some bread and butter pickles the other day and, after they were processed in a water bath, I noticed something that seems to happen a lot. The top of the pickles in the jar weren't covered by the liquid. The pickles were floating a little bit. The gap between the top of the liquid and the bottom of the lid was fine.

Like I said, this happens fairly often when I can pickles and I've never had any problems with the food once it has been opened. But I'm curious if this is common, if it is problematic, or if there is something different I should be doing.

Causes and Possible Solutions for Problems with Canned Foods

Not otherwise knowing your method or recipe, I will estimate it was not working out the air enough before sealing.

As for your floater, have you tried to rearrange the contents by gently shaking it?

Where I run into trouble with headspace is canning tomatoes. I fresh pack them, which means I push as much into the jar of skinned (maybe deseeded) tomatoes into a jar. As much as I squeeze every tomato I can into the jar, there is usually a larger than desirable headspace after processing. I tend to use those jars first. (I may need to consider the issue of pressure fluctuation, too)

Regards,

aschie30 wrote:My latest canning endeavor:

Brandied Cherries


I used this recipe, but the NY Times also published a similar recipe a couple of years ago. (FWIW, ~ 1 1/2 lb. cherries yielded 4 1/2-pint jars.)

I see Manhattans in my future . . .

Redux 2010.

This time I canned two jars of tart maraschino cherries and 2 jars of tart brandied cherries. I have not been happy with the cherries this year, but found some acceptable ones at the very end of the season (last week, in fact, at the Federal Plaza Market). I used this recipe for the maraschino cherries, and the recipe from the Ball Blue Book of Canning for the brandied cherries.

Where did you get those labels?

Darren72 wrote:Where did you get those labels?

If you can believe it, they were included in the box of canning jars.

Ah, thanks. I've been using masking tape to label jars that are being reused and had been meaning to buy some actual labels.

Hi,

My quibble with labels is trying to remove them later from the jar's sides. I write with a fine point marker on the lids.

When I first began canning, I wrote full date, product, where recipe came from and how I processed it.

Regards,

Ok, here's a question that, deep down, I know the answer to. But I am hoping to hear something different.

I like making jams from Christine Ferber's book, but she subscribes to the method of simply turning the filled jars upside down, rather than processing them in a water bath. I want to process my jams in a water bath, so I usually just find a similar recipe or two (i.e. same size, same fruit) in one of my Ball books and use that processing time.

This weekend I made a zucchini and pepper jam from Ferber's book. The closest thing I could find was a zucchini and citrus marmalade recipe, which called for processing for 10 minutes (for an 8oz jar). So I did that.

But this got me wondering, only rarely have I ever seen a recipe that calls for processing an 8oz jar for more than 10 minutes. I think I've seen some that call for 15, but I can't recall them off the top of my head. Suppose I couldn't find a similar recipe in the Ball book and just decided to wing it. Presumably, I'll be fine if I process for 10 minutes for a pretty standard jam. Or, if I really want to be safe, process for 15 (or even 20 minutes). I know you are supposed to stick to tested/approved recipes, but I like to tinker and try new things; plus, none of the exact recipes in Ferber's book appear in the Ball books. So is processing for 10 or 15 minutes for an 8oz jar a totally stupid thing to do?

I know there are alternatives to processing (i.e. fridge, freezer). I'm not asking about that. I'm asking what the smart thing is when you have a recipe with no canning instructions.

Darren -

Cathy will answer more, but I know she'll refer you to National Center for Home Preservation website for instructions.

Just because something is called a jam or a marmalade, doesn't mean it's processed the same. It depends on what's in the jam. One of the reasons why a fruit jam is processed for only 10 minutes in a boiling-water bath is because there is sufficient acidity in the fruit. If you have vegetables with lower acidity, then usually pressure-canner is called for. Tomatoes walk the line, but I process them in accordance with the USDA recommendations in a boiling-water bath for 40 minutes, as well as include additional acid, in the way of citric acid or bottled lemon juice. Fruit jams and liquored cherries go in a boiling water bath for 10 minutes.

I know that the processing time depends on what is in the jam. That's why I try to find similar recipes. (For example, processing time for cherry jam in the Ball book is going to be a sufficient guide for cherry jam with pepper and mint leaves.)

Ferber's recipes all call for the addition of acid (usually in the form of lemon juice). Her recipes are meant to be stored at room temperature (which is part of the reason for the acid), she just doesn't process them.

Let me ask my question in a different way: what's the harm in over-processing? The jam may get a bit of a cooked taste to it. Like I said, I've never seen a jam recipe for an 8oz jar that called for more than 15 minutes of processing.

This guide actually says to process jams for 5 minutes if jars are sterilized; 10 minutes otherwise.
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/u ... ng_j_j.pdf

Nearly all of the recipes on the jam page call for a 5 minute processing time. See http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can7_jam_jelly.html

Hi,

Could you describe her recipe, especially for ingredients. Jams and Jellies are intended to be made from fruits, which are naturally acidic. Your jam is entirely made from vegetables, which are naturally NOT acidic. I would like to know more before I comment.

Some years ago, I read a recipe for a tomato soup base. It had flour and all sorts of vegetables in it. The processing recommended was water bath, I knew it should have been pressure canned. I phoned the book's author. She said, "Few people pressure can, I offered to water bath canned so more people would do it." Irresponsible.

Regards,

There's also something that is unclear with vegetable "jams-" are they supposed to use pectin, acid and sugar to gel?

This creates a two-sided problem, because doesn't pectin break down if you process it for a long time or at a high heat? Conversely, the vegetables need both acid and a higher heat to process safely, yes? Or is this stuff "jam" and not actually jam.

Darren - one tip - the USDA/UGA site has all kinds of information that's hard to find through index. If you can find the right keywords, sometimes search will find you a pdf of an old, tested recipe you can use.

Mhays wrote:There's also something that is unclear with vegetable "jams-" are they supposed to use pectin, acid and sugar to gel?

This creates a two-sided problem, because doesn't pectin break down if you process it for a long time or at a high heat? Conversely, the vegetables need both acid and a higher heat to process safely, yes? Or is this stuff "jam" and not actually jam.

Darren - one tip - the USDA/UGA site has all kinds of information that's hard to find through index. If you can find the right keywords, sometimes search will find you a pdf of an old, tested recipe you can use.

Here is there master index of jams, jellie and conserves.. Mint and corncob are perhaps the only two non-fruit items on this list.

Taking processing information for a jam recipe intended for fruit and believing it is a suitable recommendation for a entirely vegetable based product is asking for trouble.

Just because you can hermitically seal a jar, does not mean the contents are suitable for the treatment or safe to eat.

A restaurant might make a quantity of vegetable jam they keep in their refrigerator to serve their customers. They go through a volume quickly and once it is finished, they make a new batch or move onto something else.

There is science in canning. Cooking is art. You can likely make a jam out of anything your heart desires, but it may not be suitable for canning. Your arty jam recipe may not hold up to the realities of the science of home canning.

All these suggestions to search for the man in the woods who says, "Yes, I have your processing information." Does not hold up for me.

Regards,

Here is the recipe:

600g peeled and diced zucchini
400g roasted, skinned, and diced peppers
800g sugar
100g honey
Juice of a lemon
150g (1 cup) pine nuts
1/2 teaspoon ground cardamom

The rest follows her basic method: macerate (without the nuts); bring to a boil; let sit overnight; bring to a boil; check the set; add nuts; pack jars.

But just to be clear, I wasn't asking about this recipe specifically. Like I said, I found a pretty similar recipe in my Ball book. I'm asking more generally about whether it makes sense to "over process" if there is uncertainty.

Michelle, you are right that pectin can break down if cooked too much. This is a potential downside of "over processing," as I've described it.

This stuff is "jam" in the sense that it is a fruit/vegetable preserved in sugar. I don't know how much sugar is in zucchinis and peppers, but in the introduction to the book she says that her recipes aim for 65% sugar.

I never use commercial pectin and so the consistency of my jams really varies, depending on the ripeness of the fruit, etc. I didn't have much success with my initial attempt to make apple pectin.

Cathy2 wrote:Taking processing information for a jam recipe intended for fruit and believing it is a suitable recommendation for a entirely vegetable based product is asking for trouble.

I don't know why I seem to be having trouble communicating here. I am not asking about processing time for the zucchini jam. I never said I was taking a recipe for fruit and using it for a vegetable. I said the opposite: that I found a recipe for zucchini jam in my Ball book.

I only brought up the zucchini jam to tell the story about how I began wondering about a more general question; one that has nothing to do with processing vegetable jams. Forget that I brought up the zucchini!

There is science in canning. Cooking is art. You can likely make a jam out of anything your heart desires, but it may not be suitable for canning. Your arty jam recipe may not hold up to the realities of the science of home canning.

I'm not sure what you mean by "arty" here. It doesn't sound nice or necessary. I thought I was being perfectly clear that I could easily just through the jars in the fridge instead of processing them. But I was curious about alternatives, so I asked a simple question about processing times. I even stated that I knew what the answer probably would be -- that you should always use tested recipes.

Hi,

Canning 911, several anecdotes from one person:

Crisis 1:

Saturday evening at 8:45 pm, I get an unhappy phone call from a friend. "All my jars are exploding. I'm losing a day's work. I am not coming the picnic tomorrow." As she was lifting jars of tomatoes from the water, they were breaking. When she called, there were three busted jars and several more sitting in the pot.

I had just provided this person 36 canning jars bought for $9 at a rummage sale. Some were brand spanking new with new lids and rings. A casual inspection suggested they were fine. My friend was sure it was the jars.

I learned from being a Master Gardner volunteer, you need to ask a lot of questions to find out what really happened. It took a while to figure out what was happening here. Instead of water bath canner and rack, she used a stock pot. This is fine, if you make some adjustments. Apparently nothing came between the jars and bottom of the pot, which is a great opportunity for thermal shock. A towel or improvised rack at the bottom would have helped here.

I then asked, "Were the jars touching each other?" "Yes, I do this all the time." I said those jars banging against each other was a likely source for cracks. "I do it all the time!" "You were lucky those other times. Today you're luck ran out."

If she had spaced the jars and used a towel, while not ideal, it is workable. When I was a Master Food Preserver volunteer, this was a suggested method for someone who could not afford a waterbath canner. It is also adequate for someone who is testing this out.

Crisis 2:

Yesterday morning, I received a phone call advising, "My stove just blew up." When she switched on a burner to make breakfast, two rings of fire began at the stove and floated to the ceiling. I will admit that is not how I would want to start my day, too.

She had finished two gallons of sauce the evening before, which now needed canning.

After waiting for a service call and learning the stove won't be back in action until October, my friend and her sauce were at my house.

While waiting, she had used her gas grill's side burner to reheat the sauce and get them jarred. By the time they reached my house, they were nearly back to room temperature.

Much to her chagrin, I emptied all the jars, reheated the contents, jarred and processed them. If I could have found anything to suggest you could properly process from room temperature, I would have though I didn't.

I ran into an issue with my pressure canner, which I quietly took care of without much comment. I figured if I said something, it just would be another source of frustration. My pressure canner simply didn't come to pressure. It made funny noises, I observed water leaking through a seal on the rim and decided nothing was going to happen here.

I turned off the burner to depressurize and inspect the gasket. It depressurized quickly, because it was never under pressure. I looked the seal over, took a towel and wiped. At 9:15 PM, the chance I could quickly buy a new gasket was zero. What the heck, I closed the pot and began reheating. After it evacuated steam, I put the weights back on and it sealed fairly quickly.

I think I have been given my warning this gasket may be wearing out. I'll get a new one by next year. I already have most stuff I would pressure canned out of the way.

Just before 1 am, we were finished processing. I did get to watch two movies: Young Victoria and a 9/11 film by Oliver Stone.

Regards,