Monica Eng Shows Her Kids Where Food Comes From

If you all thought the 4H flap was ridiculous, well, buckle up

My 7-year-old loves bacon.

She loves it almost as much she loves pigs who are still alive.

And so our recent farm visit to witness a slaughter was not easy.

Some really lovely thoughts in the comments section of the article.

Hi,

I have not read the article, yet.

Gordon Ramsay on one of his many series was raising animals at home. He wanted his kids to have an appreciation for their food, too. The kids did everything from caretaking (naming, feeding, dealing with excrement et al) to dining, where they talked about how good it tasted. The only act they never witnessed directly was the slaughter, though the television audience saw it.

A visit to a farm is a visit. The active care of an animal that Ramsay's and Mike G's kids experience is a far more engaging act.

Regards,

You know, considering the nutjobs we've seen posting on various newspaper articles linked here, I'm so glad this community represents such reasonable people. I don't mind disagreement, but for crying out loud, people!

"I think it's sad," 12-year-old Sebastian said as we sat on hay bales watching the adults corral one of the Berkshire pigs from the field. "But we can't have meat if we don't do this. And at least he gets to live outside instead of a factory."

Can we extend a junior LTH membership to Sebastian?

Khaopaat wrote:

"I think it's sad," 12-year-old Sebastian said as we sat on hay bales watching the adults corral one of the Berkshire pigs from the field. "But we can't have meat if we don't do this. And at least he gets to live outside instead of a factory."

Can we extend a junior LTH membership to Sebastian?

It isn't clear from the article if he means "it is sad to see the pig die, but I can't eat pork unless I watch the slaughter" or "it is sad that pigs have to die, but no one can eat pork unless these animals are slaughtered." Obviously these two statements have very different meanings.

This conversation makes me think about Novella Carpenter's Farm City (amazon link via LTH below). It is a very readable, informative but quirky and entertaining book about her experience raising her own food, including chickens, rabbits and pigs as well as vegetables. She develops a vacant lot in an Oakland, CA, ghetto into an urban farm, on a very small scale, and among other topics, she discusses her relationship with chickens, rabbits and pigs that she cares for and eventually slaughters and eats. She pays someone else to slaughter the pig, but butchers it and prepares it with a chef who knows his charcuterie. For me, it was an honest and thoughtful but not the least bit preachy discussion that was a great read, whatever your beliefs about food sources.

http://www.amazon.com/Farm-City-Educati ... 370&sr=8-1

Darren, while they didn't specifically mention Sebastian - Monica Eng did allow both her kids to opt out/in to viewing, which is why she only had one kid with her. I suppose there are people who force that on their kids.

Sparky and I did watch Mike G's video about the pig - he asked not to see the slaughter parts, and I respected that. That being said, he's seen me kill and clean fish that he had a much more personal relationship with than he's ever had with a pig (if you've ever been fishing - part of the fun is matching wits with your catch.)

Mhays wrote:Darren, while they didn't specifically mention Sebastian - Monica Eng did allow both her kids to opt out/in to viewing, which is why she only had one kid with her. I suppose there are people who force that on their kids.

What does this have to do with my statement above? I was just saying that the article doesn't make clear what the child is sad about.

Sorry - from the way you wrote the first option, it sounds like you were implying the child would not be allowed to eat pork unless he watched the slaughter.

Mhays wrote:Sorry - from the way you wrote the first option, it sounds like you were implying the child would not be allowed to eat pork unless he watched the slaughter.

I wasn't implying that. I was saying that his quote needs more context to know what he is actually saying.

Darren72 wrote:

Mhays wrote:Sorry - from the way you wrote the first option, it sounds like you were implying the child would not be allowed to eat pork unless he watched the slaughter.

I wasn't implying that. I was saying that his quote needs more context to know what he is actually saying.

Could be a case of editing where the meaning was lost, or it could be a case of he's 12 and wasn't sure what he was saying or how to say it clearly.

The GP wrote:

Darren72 wrote:

Mhays wrote:Sorry - from the way you wrote the first option, it sounds like you were implying the child would not be allowed to eat pork unless he watched the slaughter.

I wasn't implying that. I was saying that his quote needs more context to know what he is actually saying.

Could be a case of editing where the meaning was lost, or it could be a case of he's 12 and wasn't sure what he was saying or how to say it clearly.

I presume the author of the article knew what he meant, based on the context of her conversation with him. But she probably didn't realize that the short quote could meant something entirely different. Or, as you said, the editor screwed up.

Chicago Now weighs in, in a somewhat annoying way.

Mhays wrote:Chicago Now weighs in, in a somewhat annoying way.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Dennis Byrne is an idiot.

Maybe I should upgrade "somewhat" to "actively" now that I read it again.

Wow, he really should have just gone all the way and incorporated a Hitler reference.

Trying to view this from the perspective of a non-foodie, I could see how this could be shocking. We're so entrenched in issues relating to food, that it may not seem extreme to us to allow your kid to see an animal slaughter, but I could see how this may seem like a cherry-picked event to teach your kid a lesson about some of the darker aspects of reality.

Obviously, it's an individual issue, and I wouldn't go so far as judge a parent who allows this (and, to be fair, neither does Byrne), but I'm not sure I would put either myself or my children (if I had them) through this. I think we can teach our children about where our meat comes from without having to witness a slaughter. I mean, we can emphathize with and understand the atrocity and violence in the Holocaust without having witnessed it, right? (Almost a Hitler reference for you.)

aschie30 wrote:I wouldn't go so far as judge a parent who allows this (and, to be fair, neither does Byrne)

If I say I'm not trying to hurt you while punching you in the face, am I trying to hurt you?

The reaction-- what was normal family practice on the farm within living memory is now redefined as child abuse-- reminds me of the excellent documentary Brother's Keeper, in which an overzealous prosecutor in upstate New York tried to gin up a murder case against some eccentric farmer brothers whose only crime was, it turned out, was Failure To Be Sufficiently Modern For Modern Tastes.

If Dennis Byrne disagrees with it, I'm signing up my kids ASAP.

Articles like the above is why I only subscribe to newspapers published in rural Illinois and Ohio.

This reminds me of the offense my animal-eating friends took to my posting this picture of my husband with his birds after a hunt on Facebook a couple of years ago.








Every single one who balked at that picture still eats animals.

Good Grief.

My Dad was an avid bird hunter, and there's a big difference between bringing home a dead bird that he previously shot, but later skinned and served to you, and seeing the slaughter of a pig. In fact, I just read something about Irish traditions surrounding lamb stew, and how if someone would "go through the trouble" of slaughtering a lamb, they would share the meat amongst their neighbors (via stew) -- no doubt a way to minimize that process, and spare people from having to do it regularly. Slaughtering IS a big deal, and it should be, which is why we should respect it, and should eat meat sparingly and from animals that have been treated well prior to death.

aschie30 wrote:I mean, we can emphathize with and understand the atrocity and violence in the Holocaust without having witnessed it, right? (Almost a Hitler reference for you.)

Have you been to any of the museum exhibits covering the Holocaust in the area? They are pretty significantly graphic, and children are expected not only to go to them, but to react appropriately to what they see. I think it's up to the parent what their kid can and cannot handle - Sparky watched most of Mike G's video about the Mulefoots, (and the cooking of the head into testa) I explained about the slaughtering part and he asked not to see it, which I respected.

Speaking as a parent who's struggled with this issue, I can understand that this must have been difficult for Monica to do, and I appreciate her sharing it with us - and I'm sorry that it's turning into a circus. I've had (meat-eating) parents react negatively to me simply because I took Sparky to the Lake County fair and then the pig roast in Mundelein - but they aren't raising my kid, and I'm not raising theirs.

I also have a HUGE problem with "we should do" shouted from the rooftops as it were. Sorry but I just don't see how anyone becomes vested with the authority to tell someone they don't know (or even someone they do know unless asked for their opinion)what to do unless they're able to pass it as a law.

boudreaulicious wrote:I also have a HUGE problem with "we should do" shouted from the rooftops as it were. Sorry but I just don't see how anyone becomes vested with the authority to tell someone they don't know (or even someone they do know unless asked for their opinion)what to do unless they're able to pass it as a law.

But laws are hard to pass.

Mhays wrote:

aschie30 wrote:I mean, we can emphathize with and understand the atrocity and violence in the Holocaust without having witnessed it, right? (Almost a Hitler reference for you.)

Have you been to any of the museum exhibits covering the Holocaust in the area?

I've been to Auschwitz.

Mhays wrote:I think it's up to the parent what their kid can and cannot handle - Sparky watched most of Mike G's video about the Mulefoots, (and the cooking of the head into testa) I explained about the slaughtering part and he asked not to see it, which I respected.

I agree, and have said as much above.

Mhays wrote:Speaking as a parent who's struggled with this issue, I can understand that this must have been difficult for Monica to do, and I appreciate her sharing it with us - and I'm sorry that it's turning into a circus. I've had (meat-eating) parents react negatively to me simply because I took Sparky to the Lake County fair and then the pig roast in Mundelein - but they aren't raising my kid, and I'm not raising theirs.

True and true, but nobody's talking about a pig roast or about a fair where the otherwise healthy animals will eventually end up slaughtered (off-site). Whether you allow your kid to witness a slaughter depends upon a lot of things, and it's not something that I think all parents should do as an initiation ritual to eating meat. At the same time, I understand how a non-foodie, who has not been privy to the multitude of "where does our food come from" conversations that we have, would interpret her article that way, just based upon how it read (i.e., "you love bacon, now you need to know where it came from"). (Of course, I didn't read Eng's article that way, but I'm "on the inside" of these discussions, so to speak, so I'm trying to understand the perspective of someone who's not so food-engrossed & how they would take this article.) I don't hold it against parents who want to educate their kids, but at the same time, I don't begrudge parents who think it's too graphic for their kids to witness either.

A somewhat-tangential anecdote: My friend, who is really NOT a foodie, does not think about food, its provenance, happily shops at Jewel Meat, etc., took his young boys on a fishing charter in Lake Michigan. When the fish captain asked if he could take their catch and gut it, his oldest (about 8 years old), started freaking out. He had to have an impromptu talk with his kid about where his food came from, but that it never occurred to him prior to this trip that he would have to explain this to his kid, shows how far off the mental radar the process of catch-kill-gut is for most people.

I think there are more ways to understand where your food comes from than simply observing slaughter, indeed, I think seeing that act somewhat ripped from the context of your daily life (as it would be on a farm if you lived on one) is probably a less meaningful, more sensationalistic way to understand food than, just to pick an example, doing 4H and only knowing about, not actually witnessing, slaughter.

That said, what I really respect, even more than where my food comes from, is the right of the thoughtful parent to make a choice about how they educate their kids about things, free of the interference of agenda-pushing busybodies or anybody else.

Does this matter, but also in Monica's defense (who is a friend of mine), actually not so much defense but perspective if needed; her kids have not exactly had the most typical of upbringings. We all love Monica for eating at 3 AM with us and making her share of "discoveries". I think a lot of us like how her attentions in recent years have turned to various agricultural and related issues like raw milk, food safety/food regulations and animal husbandry--have you all seen the piece she did a year or so ago in the Trib Mag on following your meat. In a lot of her adventures, she has not been shy about including her family. They have been part and parcel to a lot of her experiences. I'm not saying her kids are special or elitist or different in any way, but I do (strongly) believe that going into this event her kids had a different perspective than a lot of other kids would.

Now, granted, I could say the same thing about something like MikeG's kids, who bring a different perspective or various farm kids. I just think you cannot always throw your judgement around of other's parenting without knowing a little more about them.

Ms. Eng's article was interesting for sure. Not going to judge the wisdom of taking a 7 year old to wtiness this, all kids are different, and parenting styles vary.

I dont believe all meat eaters have to personally witness an animal being put down to appreciate where their food comes from. A respect for the animal, and knowledge of the process is all. Ive been invited to kill a pig for my own use, wasnt going to be by slitting its throat, but by a .22 to the head. Id be more willing to have my daughter witness that method vs slicing the throat of an animal.

At almost 4 years old my daughter has a pretty firm grasp of where the daily bounty of meat I cook at home comes from. She has made countless visits to farms with me, pet the pigs that would become bbq next week or later that year, etc. Enjoyed visits to Peoria meatpacking to look at the pig heads, etc.

When I got the pig for my pig roast and was driving it back from the butcher in Morris, I called up and told her I had a pig in the car. She was delighted and asked if she coupld play with it. I told her the pig was dead, there was a short silence and then she asked "who killed the pig". I told her the butcher or the farmer killed the pig and it was for our party. She then asked why the pig was killed, and I told her that it was someones job to kill the pigs and thats where the ribs, bacon, ham, and other pork she loves comes from. Seemed to make sense to her and she was fascinated by the whole pig layed out on the kitchen counter as I prepped it. Counting its teeth, etc.

Its a matter of exposing children to these things, and making it the norm.