question about butter/shortening in pie crust

Does pie crust turn out better if you use shortening instead of butter? What is the difference?

Other than taste, a butter crust will be flakier, a shortening crust more tender (but blander tasting).

Whether it's better depends on what you're looking for.

Both.

Butter for flavor, shortening for texture.
We use a 50-50 mix.

Cook's Illustrated recommends replacing 1/2 of the water in your crust with vodka (you could use a flavored one to add to the flavor of the crust too). Why? You have about 1/4 less water in the crust (1/2 of the liquid, and about 1/2 of that is alcohol -- yes my math isn't exact) meaning less gluten development, but enough liquid to work with the crust. We've gotten terrific results from that.

Many pie baker use a 50/50 combination to get the benefits of each, and yet a third option is to use non-commercially-processed leaf lard - IIRC, Hoosier Mama uses all butter.

Chemically, butter contains about 14% water where shortening and lard contain none, which accounts for the different behavior of these fats in pastry.

Mhays wrote:Many pie baker use a 50/50 combination to get the benefits of each, and yet a third option is to use non-commercially-processed leaf lard - IIRC, Hoosier Mama uses all butter.

Chemically, butter contains about 14% water where shortening and lard contain none, which accounts for the different behavior of these fats in pastry.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will use a 50/50 combo.

Hoosier Mama indeed uses all butter. Her recipe, published in Food & Wine magazine (with a typo, however, in which the salt/sugar amounts were apparently reversed), is very similar (almost identical) to Rose Levy Beranbaum's recipe. Personally, I prefer Gale Gand's recipe, which is also an all-butter recipe and results in a flaky, but slightly less flaky, crust than Hoosier Mama's. All of the above recipes incorporate various measurements of vinegar, which ensures flakiness and impedes gluten development.

I'm just not big on incorporating shortening into a pie crust. It makes decorating/crimping easier and the pie may appear more professional from the outside, but the flavor cannot come close to competing with that of an all-butter crust . . . not even close. To me, that not-as-pleasant and lingering shortening taste on the tongue should be avoided.

As for making the all butter crust, always work with cold ingredients so that bits of butter remain in the rolled-out crust - you should be able to identify the small bits of butter by just looking at the crust. That way, you'll know that you'll get a flaky crust. And while I prefer a Cuisinart processor or Kitchen Aid stand mixer for this task, a pastry blender is really the best way to ensure a perfect butter crust. Just work quickly and don't allow the butter to melt at all.

And don't work the flour too much or you'll lose the tenderness of the crust. When my dough begins to come together, I either put it in a plastic bag to squeeze it together, or put it in parchment or wax paper to do the same. This helps me bring the dough together without overworking it. Good luck.

I'll make one pie crust with a 50/50 mixture and another pie crust which is all butter. I guess that the only way to figure out which way I prefer is to do it both ways.

I tried to make a pie dough one time with the food processor, but really did not feel comfortable with it. I guess it is easier if you get the hang of it, but I was afraid of overworking the dough. I think that I will stick to using a pastry blender.

Mhays wrote:Many pie baker use a 50/50 combination to get the benefits of each, and yet a third option is to use non-commercially-processed leaf lard - IIRC, Hoosier Mama uses all butter.

Chemically, butter contains about 14% water where shortening and lard contain none, which accounts for the different behavior of these fats in pastry.

Thanks for mentioning lard. Anyone know a good source for leaf lard in the Chicago area? I know about on-line sites and regular rendered lard from fatback.

Shorty, I have always been happy with our pies - I freeze the fats (I do a 50/50 blend) use vodka, and a pie form (so basically I follow BR's ziploc method) but I grate the fat into the pies with a cheese grater or the grating disk on my food processor if I'm doing a lot of them. See this thread. There's also another pie thread around here with BR and others' wisdom.

I tried to make a pie dough one time with the food processor, but really did not feel comfortable with it. I guess it is easier if you get the hang of it, but I was afraid of overworking the dough.

The secret to not overworking it in a food processor is turning the processor off as soon as the water is absorbed, and then proceeding by hand. I find the trickier part is keeping the butter in decent sized chunks, since they go from pea sized to sand sized very quickly.

Darren72 wrote:

Mhays wrote:Many pie baker use a 50/50 combination to get the benefits of each, and yet a third option is to use non-commercially-processed leaf lard - IIRC, Hoosier Mama uses all butter.

Chemically, butter contains about 14% water where shortening and lard contain none, which accounts for the different behavior of these fats in pastry.

Thanks for mentioning lard. Anyone know a good source for leaf lard in the Chicago area? I know about on-line sites and regular rendered lard from fatback.

green grocer often has leaf lard. you might call first. 1402 w. grand, 312-624-9508

I've used a high-quality rendered lard for pie dough and had good success. IMO lard would be a great option for savory pies. I prefer butter for fruit pies.

Hi,

If I want to have a pie in the oven asap, I make a pie with shortening. Upon finishing the dough, I can immediately begin rolling it out.

If I plan ahead, I will use leaflard and/or butter. Both need chilling before they are rolled out.

I use a pastry cutter to cut in the fat. I almost never use a food processor, because I found it tended to heat the dough.

If recipe calls for 3-5 tablespoons of water, I go straight to the maximum. A moisture dough is easier to handle than a dry one.

I add water and stir with as few strokes as possible. Once I can form it into a ball, I stop fiddling with it.

If I am chilling the dough, I divide the dough (60:40) to form them into disks for bottom and top respectively.

When I roll pies out, I do it between very, very lightly floured wax or parchment paper.

The winter I decided to learn how to make pie, I was making pies several times a week. Like other techniques, it comes down to practice, practice, practice.

Regards,

Excellent points Cathy. I also like the parchment rolling method because it helps me avoid the urge to add to much flour when rolling . . . not practical for a pie bakery, but hardly cost prohibitive for the home baker.

Also, when I'm making several pies, I have a tendency to cut the butter/flour in a Cuisinart processor, and then to add the ice water in the Kitchen Aid mixer. But the difference when using a pastry cutter is just so obvious - the crust is so much lighter and more tender. Flour needs to be treated so delicately and the machines are just too rough.

I think that the pie ended up slightly overcooked. Maybe I should have put tin foil around the edges. I left the pie in the oven longer because I thought that the lattice part looked undercooked. More practice is needed.

Doesn't look overbaked to my taste, but yes, some foil on the edges would help even out the browning.

Looks good to me! I always have trouble with my edges; one tip is to make the pie higher in the middle than on the sides, so the top is closer to the oven.

I'm with rickster and Mhays. Better to have color and flavor than underbaked crust (IMO) and I don't think it looks too dark.

But when you're baking, keep an eye on the crust edges and if you think it's browning too much, foil the edges for the remainder of the baking time. To foil the edges, use a piece of foil big enough to drape over the entire pie such that it would sit steady, cut out the middle using another pie pan as a guide, so that you can just drape the cut foil over the pie. The foil will then sit atop the pie, but covering only the edges . . . it's easy.