The Kinderhook Tap

My wife and her sister had lunch here and said it was not bad at all. It's been a long time coming, so consider me at least curious. Beer selection is apparently good, and the food not so shoddy, either (soft pretzels, tall grass fed beef burgers). The chef, Ben Walanka, apparently competed on Hell's Kitchen. Anybody else been yet?

The Kinderhook Tap
800 S. Oak Park
Oak Park, IL, 60304

I went tonight.

I really wanted to like this place.

Way too many windows, way too many tables, way too little bar.

The facebook page has been advertising Ben Walanka from Hell's Kitchen as the chef for months. Ben was nowhere to be seen, and when I asked the hostess and kitchen staff pretended they had never heard of him.

A bar should have MGD/Bud/Old Style bottles – not here.

Oak Park needs a bar, Oak Park deserves a bar, not another restaurant that happens to have a few chairs and a dipshit blonde with tattoos who couldn't make a Manhattan if her pimp slapped her.

Sorry, I'm in a bad mood, but this place was everything I hoped it wouldn't be.

Well, here's the thing. From what I understand, Oak Park law requires any place that serves beer and liquor to derive a pretty big hunk of income from food sales, which is why there are no bars, per se, in the OP, and why what few drinking establishments do exist (Avenue, Poor Phil's) are restaurants first and foremost. So, still having never been to this place myself, I'm not sure how fair it is to criticize it for lack of bar vibe when such a vibe may have been proscribed. But correct me of I'm wrong.

For what it's worth, my wife claims she did see the Chef.

Vitesse98 wrote:Well, here's the thing. From what I understand, Oak Park law requires any place that serves beer and liquor to derive a pretty big hunk of income from food sales, which is why there are no bars, per se, in the OP, and why what few drinking establishments do exist (Avenue, Poor Phil's) are restaurants first and foremost. So, still having never been to this place myself, I'm not sure how fair it is to criticize it for lack of bar vibe when such a vibe may have been proscribed. But correct me of I'm wrong.

For what it's worth, my wife claims she did see the Chef.

Your point is valid and as I said, I was in a really bad mood when I posted.
I don't mean to dismiss you wife, just posting about my own experience.
However I still wish we had a bar, I thought that was what we were getting.
[bummed]

I'm sorry my staff didn't know about the chef. They should have known that Ben Walanka from Hell's Kitchen was our consulting chef who made most of our menu. Our head chef who works and manages our kitchen is Laura White. She's added a few of her own dishes as well-- like the crab cake and the chicken caesar sandwich. Ben has taken a position at Eden Roc down in Miami so he wasn't able to be here for the opening.

We are a very small bar and had to choose carefully for storage purposes and we wanted to provide a wide array of beers for everyone. We do have 4 macro beers (guinness, amstel light, stella and blue moon) and 4 microbrews on tap (fly wheel, matilda, burning river and green line)--and we carry domestics in bottle like bud, bud light, coors light and miller lite and miller high life in bottles (sorry no mgd) but if you request it to the gm the next time you are in, we can most certainly try get some in. We do have pbr and old style in tall boys -- but not bottles.

I can't say anything about the windows-- I love them! We are required by Oak Park law to have a certain amount of seating and we have to serve food to carry a b-4 liquor license that allows us to be a full service bar.

I really like the bartenders we hired and have heard nothing but great things from our guests. I certainly hope my bartenders can make a manhattan....and if they can't then I definitely want to hear about it!

I hope you come back in and give us another shot-- we're trying hard to be a great neighborhood bar and want everyone to feel welcome!

Thank you for the straight-up post, and welcome to LTH. Reading the thread above, we do not usually impugn the honor of bartenders, hypothetical or real, so it's good of you to be game after that. I hope you are (or will become) more generally familiar with the board.



I was waiting for a second visit before making a substantive post, but the cooking I've tasted, seen and heard about so far is a notch up from Nola's Cup, the previous incarnation of the address (though feel free to bring back the beignet!). A buffalo chicken sandwich was particularly good, on a pretzel bun with a really crispy, flat-pounded, crumb-crusted fillet, tangy sauce, apple slices, and nice cheese selection, a personal riff on a very standard item. Fries were fine, and it's nice that the sandwiches come with a choice of those, tots, or side salad. The side salad was also more than perfunctory, with fresh grape tomatoes and cukes, mixed greens, and a nice light dressing.

However, pictured above is the breaded pork tenderloin sandwich (BPT around here), which was bland, fatty, and totally lost in its none-too-fresh, bready, disproportionate brioche bun. The herb mayo was also surprisingly flavorless. Since you're soliciting feedback, this needs real work (I also mentioned it to our server).

Soft pretzels and cheese curds were very tasty, as were our drinks; I like the tongue-in-cheek homages to Oak Park celebrities in the menu names. I'll be back soon.

Nice writeup in the Wednesday Journal (as tantalizing as it may be, Marty Stempinak is not an anagrammed pseudonym for me, though most of the same items are mentioned).

zoid wrote:A bar should have MGD/Bud/Old Style bottles – not here.

Not sure I agree with this sentiment. At least for "beer bars." I agree that bars should have one low-cost, macro lager choice on the menu for those who don't want to spend a lot of money on craft beer (or who just feel like an Old Style), but I tend to like when beer bars try to steer their customers away from the standard Miller/Bud/Coors products. The only way to really do that is to not offer them. I can't tell you how many times I've been at Small Bar on Division and heard someone try to order a Blue Moon only to be told by the bartender that they don't sell Blue Moon. But then they are given a sample of Allagash White as an alternative. I would say 9 time out of 10, they order the Allagash and are happy for having tried something different.

OK, since folks are soliciting/reading, here's a complaint I've gotten from two friends recently. Oak Park is awash with kids, but all the (literally) high chairs and tables in the place are not kid friendly. Of course, this is not a kids place, per se, but there will nonetheless no doubt be a regular clientele of parents with kids, if not drinking then eating, and especially in the less alcohol-centric earlier hours, it might be a good strategy to keep the lil' ones in mind. Maybe add some simple mac and cheese or grilled cheese or something to the lunch menu, or have a set simple kids menu? Maybe you have these things already, though the seating issue still, er, stands.

Are *all* of the seats at Kinderhook high chairs? If so that's not just an inconvenience for those with kids but a deterrent for handicapped folks as well.

The Kinderhook Tap is working on a kids menu. We hadn't realized we would have so many families in-- and we are thrilled and trying to accomodate them. We ordered kid glasses right away, got more high chairs and two boosters.
We are working on a kids menu that we should roll out shortly htat has a smaller version of our mac & cheese, free range chicken tenders, a kids version of grilled cheese, a mini cheeseburger and the like. We've only been open a week and are trying hard to adjust to our clientele and make everyone feel at home!

As far as seating-- we have 3 tables out of 11 that are low that are kid-friendly and are handicap accessible-- and we have banquet seating that has 3 short tables that kids can sit at or a parent can pull up a high chair. And all of our 7 tables outside for outdoor seating are low.

After eating a few pounds of chicken for lunch, I figured I should balance things out by eating a bunch of beef for dinner. I had the cheese-stuffed burger at The Kinderhook Tap.



This was a burger of Tallgrass beef, and gotta say, it was pretty dry. Not mealy or sawdusty, just not as luscious as the one at Urban Burger Bar – that probably is not too surprising as grassfed beef tends toward less moisture. The cheese stuffing seemed like a cool idea, but the engineering problem is that once pierced, the patty spills its cheesy guts all over (which doesn’t happen, of course, when the cheese is on top). Loved the toasted pretzel roll, and the tots were tasty. I had some of MikeG’s egg-on-top burger, and the texture was, of course, pretty much the same – and in this instance, the ever-popular fried egg seemed to add some needed lubrication.

There’s a good beer selection – most drafts around $6 and mixed drinks $9, which is very fair -- and we found the staff quite friendly.

Kinderhooktap, your on-board interactions are excellent, as Santander said, “straight-up,” no defensive dancing around, good responses to criticism, seemingly genuine interest in what customers have to say; thanks for that, and I’m glad you opened in Oak Park.

I had a Tallgrass steak once (at Harry Caray's by O'Hare) and I thought it was pretty tough. By comparison to that, the burger had interesting tangy-beefy flavor and was entirely chewable. So I agree with the dryness comment but it bothered me less in this case; on the whole, I'd put this among the better bar burgers I've had, a notch behind The Bad Apple, but only one. The big hunk o' cheese in the middle of a burger is an engineering mistake that leaves both the cheese (which puddles into a lump) and the burger (which looks like it has a now-empty secret compartment) worse off; too bad because it was good cheese and the overall flavor, once I put it back together a bit, was pretty good. I think what would work better is mixing little bits of cheese in with the burger, so it really would help moisten the meat.

This was my second visit to Kinderhook Tap, and I give the place high marks for filling a niche (it’s probably the closest thing the People’s Republic of Oak Park has to a gastro-pub), for making a real effort to provide some interesting beer on draft (it’s no Map Room, but it’s a serious effort for the PROP), for interior design (I like the Martin Van Buren theming, which is honestly not something I would ever have thought I’d say), and I think it’s totally cool that a representative of the tap is posting on this forum in such a reasoned and genuinely concerned manner.

For all those reasons, I think the Kinderhook Tap is a fine addition to our village and a fitting locale for the first monthly meeting place for the LTH Oak Park Boy’s Night Out.

Zoid’s nachos looked like a good representative of their type, though I did notice that no one at the table, at any point, after taking the first few bites of their food, said “wow, this is tasty” or anything close to that. I’d be interested in what other Oak Park Boys had to say about their selections.



Santander had recently mentioned the “bland, fatty” pork tenderloin sandwich, and I’ve been critical of the engineering problems with the cheese-filled and somewhat dry burger. Last night’s Buffalo Chicken Sandwich didn’t help.



This is no doubt a matter of taste, as I believe Santander liked this sandwich enough to bring one home for his wife, but I found it almost impossibly sour: the buffalo sauce tang coupled with the green apples and the feta made it very difficult to taste the namesake fried fowl and the overall flavor composition was off-kilter, imbalanced. I appreciate the innovative attitude of putting the apples on top, and the pretzel roll is probably my favorite type of bun, but this was not, in my opinion, a successful sandwich. My taste buds were in convulsions, as though I were eating a savory version of apple-flavored Extreme Sour Warheads.

If I were in the mood to torque myself into a rant ( ), I’d lash out at the fries, which even in this picture you can see are oily and already sagging beneath the weight of gravity, so soft and limp are they. Serving fries like this is wrong.

So although I give Kinderhook Tap kudos in several critical areas, my experiences so far have lead me to conclude that it’s stumbling at what is, for me, the most critical area: the chow.

Thanks to David for putting up the pictures. I only had the fried cheese curds for dinner as my wife had made me a nice dinner of shrimp tacos. I did not want to raise her ire by not eating them!

The curds were good bar food, I would order them again. They were accompanied by a kind of mild ranch-style sauce (made in house). Nothing amazing here, but decent.

Service was very friendly and attentive, a huge plus in this kind of establishment.

On a tuesday at 7:30 there were no seats to be had inside, so we sat outside which was very pleasant but a bit chilly. How nice it was to sit outside without heavy traffic buzzing by or else in some odd silo-type space in a jerry-rigged alley type of situation -- if you know what I mean.

Come winter, on a Friday or Saturday night, you can forget about waltzing in and sitting down at a table. The place is going to be a madhouse of humanity. I'm not even sure how they are going to ration out the tables.

Great company for a cool September night, and I do like the modest outdoor seating area, which I enjoyed with the family in August.

The sandwich and fries combo last night was weaker than my previous visits - fries were underdone and soggy, and the ratio in the buffalo chix was off as David suggests. Wife was still thrilled I brought one home for her and I assume is enjoying it as we speak. I do like my buffalo sauce tangy, and they employ a very flavorful preparation, but the chicken was pounded so flat as to be quite scant, the apples were thick-cut rather than mandolined as on a prior encounter, and the cheese applied too liberally for my tastes. It was still a better-than-average showing vs. the Avenue, Bar Louie, and Poor Phil's, the other places I order stuff buffaloed.

Beer list seems to have been upgraded, and zoid's cocktails looked competent. They do not have any kind of coffee or tea service at present but may start up soon.

Cocktails were well done, but honestly it's pretty hard to screw up a vodka and cranberry juice. They do not carry Smirnoff which I thought was odd but the well vodka is Rock which is just fine.

The nachos were good but not great. High lights were the fresh sliced, not pickled, jalepenos and the fresh cilantro sprigs.
I also liked the addition of black beans and fresh pico de guillo. This is just a personal preference but on the rare occasion I eat nachos I'm really ordering them for the jalepenos. I'd actually like the chip to pepper ratio to be pretty close to 1:1 but I realize I'm probably in the minority here. What held these back is the cheese which is pretty much the standard yellow liquid stuff. I know this is what many people like and expect but I think these could have gone to the next level with a topping of some nice shredded cheese and a run under a broiler instead of the typical sauce. All in all I would order them again, it's really enough food to call an entre, I'd just ask for extra peppers next time.

I have to say sitting outside even on a chilly evening is the way to go.

Pleasantly surprised by my first visit to Kinderhook this evening. I had the crab cake. A single generous cake on a plate of lightly lime-seasoned slaw. It tasted like crab and had been gently assembled and carefully fried to prevent it from turning into a chicken nugget. Remarkably good for a non seafood spot. Others at the table had the meatloaf sandwich, which didn't look very impressive but met with approval, and the black bean burger, which got high praise. We had a basket of the Parmesan tater tots for the table. They really were perfect. Obviously an industrial product (as tater tots should be for authenticity!) but perfectly cooked and then dusted with Parmesan. Very light--almost like eating popcorn. They'd be an excellent choice if you were there for a drink and just wanted something to much on.

About 80% full and a steady stream of customers on a Tuesday evening. I'd say they're off to a good start.

My Bride, a couple of friends and I stopped in not too long after they opened.

Not too bad for a fancy pub. My bride enjoyed her breaded pork tenderloin as the balance of breading and meat was good and the meat was surprisingly juicy and tasty. I think it is a waste to have a 'famous' chef on staff to whip together sandwiches.

Having the tater tots on the menu was nice. They were crispy enough but could of been a little more browned. Burger could of been juicer and more tender. Everything was nicely seasoned.

The mixed drinks were nicely mixed and strong enough and my friends girlfriend was impressed that they had her favorite Sofie in stock.


(Only picture that turned out. Grrr... )

The staff and owners are trying really hard to make a place in your heart but for me the space is just a little too small and crowded. I might like it if it was half full but I do not think that is going to happen.

I prefer the larger menu and booths at the Avenue down the street better (love the rooftop patio too).

Reportedly new chef, new menu, new breakfast: anyone been lately? I hope it's better, because for a spot literally two blocks from where I live, I've never liked the food or service here, and the $13 burger has been a travesty both times I've given it a shot.

(Incidentally, new menu at Avenue Ale House is much improved.)

I tried brunch today with a book group. Although they usually open at 9 on Sunday, they'd opened at 7:30 so the lads could watch the Manchester Union vs Liverpool match on the big screen and there they were, with early beers in front of them, cheering away.

Appropriately enough, the brunch special was bangers and mash, which none of us tried. We do have some suggestions for them, however:

1. Invest in some carafes. A breakfast crowd will want lots of refills on very good coffee and it seems like a waste of effort to have to bring each cup into the kitchen for each refill. And am I right that you only have milk to serve with it? Oddly enough, that's what my friend wanted, but she was still a little surprised when she asked for milk only to be told that was what was in the little creamer.

2. Get some more teas. Even though breakfast is usually a caffeine-rich meal, there will be the odd duck out, like me, who wants a caffeine-free tea--herbal or otherwise--for breakfast. And no, a black or green tea flavored with mint or lemon is not an herbal tea. Besides, you'd think that some of your dinner crowd might appreciate it.

3. Ditch the strata. It was really overcooked, almost burned, on the bottom. The nice waiter explained that they have had trouble with it, because by the time it heats up the middle the bottom is overdone. Either make it flatter, so it heats faster, or just ditch it. Oh, and when you're having this discussion with a customer, you should probably offer then and there to scramble an egg for her instead. She might well decline, but she'd appreciate the offer. And no, taking $3 off this $10 item doesn't do it.

4. The house-made breakfast sausage is really good. You're wise to feature it. But at $8 for a plate with two small pieces of that good sausage, two eggs, and three thin slices each of apple and orange, you might want to throw in a piece of toast. I hear the potatoes that I could have had instead of the fruit were very good, though. But even so, how much would a couple of pieces of toast cost you?

5. Push push push those eggs benedict made with your justly-famous crab cakes. They were terrific. Excellent hollandaise. Perfectly poached eggs. Thank you!

6. Keep those biscuits coming out of the oven. Freshly made, they were as good as any biscuit in town.

And good luck. Oak Park needs more brunch spots.

i have been pretty underwhelmed in the past eating here.it has been well over a year since i have visited, but decided to try it again tonight because the taste for tots was too strong to ignore. my grilled cheese sandwich with bacon and tomato seemed extra delicious, but i couldn't really pinpoint why. that's when it all became clear, Robert Nava is in the kitchen there now. he came out and said hello, and i was good to see him. if any of you knew him from the Depot Diner, make sure you tell him hello if you stop in. their menu is pretty much the same at this point,hoping he will add something new.

dollbabytina wrote:i have been pretty underwhelmed in the past eating here.it has been well over a year since i have visited, but decided to try it again tonight because the taste for tots was too strong to ignore. my grilled cheese sandwich with bacon and tomato seemed extra delicious, but i couldn't really pinpoint why. that's when it all became clear, Robert Nava is in the kitchen there now. he came out and said hello, and i was good to see him. if any of you knew him from the Depot Diner, make sure you tell him hello if you stop in. their menu is pretty much the same at this point,hoping he will add something new.

I was wondering where he went to. Thanks!

I will stop by as with his deft touch, the food will have to improve.

Panther in the Den wrote:I will stop by as with his deft touch, the food will have to improve.

The food there (at least for the past year) would be improved by any touch whatsoever. It's like it has been cooked by a robot set to "SCORCH," including the salads. Portions are good, and nice beers.

I would like to know how long he has been there.
We went about two months ago for the first time in a long time
and the food still sucked.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 6693406926

First ever staff T-Shirt response to an LTH post, right? Wow. Generally bad reviews notwithstanding, that witty response is enough for me to give Kinderhook a try the next time I'm in Oak Park.

Wow, this may be the most compelling Oak Park-area restaurant LTH reference since the JiLS Biscuits and Gravy at The Depot 1.0.

That said, I'm afraid, and will have to start locking up the kids' tricycles at night.