I need some Follia-level mozzarella!

Okay, the fantastic mozzarella at Follia has spoiled me for the usual Whole Foods stuff. I know Follia makes their own (buffalo in the back, I guess), but what about the Caputo'ses of the world and such places, surely they have something that blows the run of the mill away. What should I go buy?

Have you ever tried making your own? It's fun and the results are great, especially if you can get 100% whole milk with no additives. There are lots of approaches; I like this one the best:

http://www.cheesemaking.com/includes/mo ... Index.html

On the topic, Green City Market has a vendor from Indiana selling whole milk and yogurt from grass fed cows this year. It's quite good.

Mike G wrote:Okay, the fantastic mozzarella at Follia has spoiled me for the usual Whole Foods stuff. I know Follia makes their own (buffalo in the back, I guess)...

MikeG:

What do you mean when you say "buffalo in the back"? I've heard there is someone in New England who allegedly has a herd of water buffalo and sells the milk; perhaps there is a herd nearer by. Is it you're understanding that they get water buffalo milk and make the mozzarella on premises?

...but what about the Caputo'ses of the world and such places, surely they have something that blows the run of the mill away. What should I go buy?

Mozzarella and fresh ricotta, two essentials of life for me, are, I must regretfully say, not well represented here in Chicago or more broadly in the midwest. The good people of Wisconsin, for all their many and considerable virtues, are by and large completely benighted when it comes to making Italian cheeses of any sort.

I have yet to find any place here that produces really top-notch fior di latte (that is, the mozzarella-style cheese that is made with 100% cow's milk). Real fresh mozzarella di bufala is in this country as rare as the herds of water buffalo are, which is to say exceedingly, all but vanishingly so. Indeed, even in Italy there are relatively few of the noble beasts left these days, though given the explosion of interest in the stuff and the DOC designation Campanian mozzarella now has, one hopes the herds will be expanding. Here in the States, of course, one can shell out lots of money for the DOC product, shipped over from Campania Felix, and that's very good but well past the peak of freshness which in Italy is particularly highly prized.

On the east coast, there are many places that make perfect fior di latte and I'm sure there are elsewhere in the US. And I hope in the responses to your post one such place in this area comes to light.

A

Being of that state, I prefer to think of my people as benignant

I guess I am a true cheesehead, because I do enjoy reading about cheese making. I believe I recently read an article which discussed a Wisconsin farmer that was attempting to produce waterbuffalo milk, although I'll be darned if I can find it now. It may have even been in the East, the same to which Antonius referred.

I was going to post a link, but I'll let those with a bit more time on their hands work the google.

FYI, did you read the excellent artisnal cheesemaking article in last week's NYT (June 23)? In addition to some good information, I found some new classes to dream about. I have often looked at the New England Cheesemaking classes, but never seem to have the time. I know there is one comming up in the Midwest by another institute. You may also check out Grape and Grain, which sells cheesemaking supplies.

Perhaps we should organize a wine and cheesemaking discussion some evening.

Hi,

The trick to making cheese yourself is obtaining unpasteurized milk. It has long been my understanding if you approach a dairy farm directly, they are allowed to sell you raw milk. They cannot take raw milk from their farm and deliver it to you.

Last winter, I find myself with an unexpected gift of 3-4 gallons of raw milk. I did not have supplies immediately available to attempt any cheesemaking experiments beyond making farmer's cheese. Some went to yogurt and creme fraiche production. It took a few days to use it in one form or another.

I have watched mozerella being made on the 'magic' of television. It didn't appear too difficult. ARticles on the internet and a few cheese making books I have make it seem like the best initial foray after farmer's cheese.

Water Buffalo milk seems like quite a big job to obtain. However, goat milk cannot be too difficult. Maybe it is something to discuss with the animal handlers when hitting the county and state fairs this summer.

Ideas, always full of ideas, just need the time to execute everything which interests me.

Regards,

Cathy,

I think I would add that raw milk is only essential (or even desirable) for certain kinds of cheese. Currently, I believe that the USDA allows raw milk cheese that has aged at least 60 days to be sold in the US. I suggest doing research on the why's and how come's before attempting to make a fresh or mild or unaged cheese (such as Mozzerella) with raw milk.

While I can sympathize that the USDA raw milk rules are over burdensome, I know second hand (from my brother who spent 4 days in the hospital) that picking up a bug from raw milk is no picinic.

Can someone help us out with a reliable link to the current rules and perhaps some quality debate on the topic?

pd

Try this link:

http://www.realmilk.com/happening.html

I just don't know the quality of this source.

Summary: Sales of raw milk are legal in 28 out of 50 US states, which is better than half. If you include the states which permit the sale of raw milk for animal consumption (implying that human consumption is feasible) then the total is 33 out of 50 states, which is two-thirds. In some of the remaining states (such as Colorado, Virginia and Wisconsin) raw milk is available through cow share programs. Our goal: Raw milk available to consumers in all 50 states and throughout the world!


Also from that site...


The practice of heating milk to kill germs was instituted in the 20s to combat TB, infant diarrhea, undulant fever and other diseases caused by poor animal nutrition and dirty production methods. But times have changed and modern stainless steel tanks, milking machines, refrigerated trucks and inspection methods make pasteurization absolutely unnecessary for public protection. (And pasteurization does not always kill the bacteria for Johne's disease, with which most modern cows are infected. The Johne's bacteria is suspected of causing Crohn's disease in humans.) Clean raw milk from certified healthy cows is available commercially in several states and may be bought directly from the farm in many more. (Sources are listed on Where.) By executive order, it is forbidden to transport raw milk across state lines.

Capi di Cacio a Chenoscia?

pdaane wrote:Being of that state, I prefer to think of my people as benignant ...I guess I am a true cheesehead, because I do enjoy reading about cheese making...

PD:

I apologise about making a sweeping generalisation like that, but note that it is doubly qualified and intended only to apply to the making of Italian cheeses... I haven't yet had any such products I've really liked yet but if there are good producers, I'd like to find out about them...

BUT, I have been thinking about mozzarella on and off all day (thanks to MikeG), by spells entering into a sort of reverie of cheeses past, and it occurred to me: What about Kenosha? Does Tenuta's make their own? Or what about the little place (the name I can't remember) that supplies things (sausage, ravioli) to the Italian-American club?

Any Chenosciani/Chenoscitani out there?

A

P.S. I love Wisconsin and in all honesty, some of my best friends are from your state.

About a year ago, the head guy at Follia (Bruno, I think is his name) told me that they fly the mozzarella in from somewhere in Italy every Thursday. Maybe they might sell you some if you chat it up with him.

Re: Imported Mozzarella di Bufala

Bacchus wrote:About a year ago, the head guy at Follia (Bruno, I think is his name) told me that they fly the mozzarella in from somewhere in Italy every Thursday. Maybe they might sell you some if you chat it up with him.

That's pretty much what I expected, unless they had someone nearby who could provide them with fior di latte of top quality and absolute freshness.

To get a sense of what mozzarella di bufala is like, the stuff flown in from Italy is very good, but it simply cannot be at the desired peak of freshness --mozzarella, at least in areas where they produce it -- is supposed to be eaten the day it's made. After that, it's used in cooking. So for us in the States, we have to accept one or another shortcoming: less than optimal freshness or non-buffalo mozzarella. What has frustrated me here in Chicago is -- so far as I know -- the absence (or obscurity) of anybody who makes top-quality fior di latte, i.e. mozzarella di mucca.

The mozzarella di bufala imported from Campania is available at pretty much all of the Italian specialty shops in the area (Conte, Riviera, Bari), as well as other gourmet shops (e.g., Fox and Obel), packed in plastic bags filled with the 'juice', as it were. But given the price and the issue of freshness, it's a bit of a gamble. Of course, in a restaurant, one expects a good measure of quality control... But how old is that mozzarella if you order it on a Wednesday night here in Chicago? 8 days? 9 days?

A

Antonious,

Firstly, I did realize it was only toward Italian cheesemaking to which you slighted the otherwise virtuous folks that live North of the Cheddar Curtain. I guess being in the dark about Italian cheese beats being a FIB, but I get called that also.

Anyway, there is a rich history of Italian cheesemakers in Wisconsin. Unfortunately, I am not the one to ask about it. I have no idea if most of them sold out to big time manufacturing or just fell by the wayside.

You should also know that a recently passed good friend of the family ran the cheese shop at the border known as Mars Cheese Castle....Mars was named for Mario Ventura, as if you could possibly be more Eye-talian (phonetic Wisconsin spelling).

You may also wish to research Tolibia Cheese, now based in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin...but I don't think these are the small producers you desire.

I do know one piece of the history and that was that there was organized crime activity in the milk and cheese industry. Of course, that usally goes hand in hand with any regulated industry. However, I disclaim any implied connection, ethnically or otherwise, between organized crim and the fine folks who currently operate Mars and Tolibia.

I would appreciate any other sources for this information. Frankly, I just pick most of it up by word of mouth....and never really asked any more detailed questions.

pd

pdaane wrote:Firstly, I did realize it was only toward Italian cheesemaking to which you slighted the otherwise virtuous folks that live North of the Cheddar Curtain. I guess being in the dark about Italian cheese beats being a FIB, but I get called that also.

I had to ask Donna Amata about 'FIB' (I lead a sheltered life)... I'm shocked!:shock:... Anyway, I thank god regularly I'm from Jersey... (great tomatoes, first class mozzarella di mucca)...

A

Gwiv:

Thanks for the info about Caputo's and Minelli's. Is the same quality of mozzarella available at the Harlem Ave Caputo's as at the one in Melrose Park?

G Wiv wrote:The best fresh mozzarella I've purchased in the Chicago area has been at Minelli Brother's grocery in Niles. Minelli's gets delivery of whole milk (cow) mozzarella almost daily from a company in New Jersey and the mozzarella is fresh, creamy and delicious. Menilli's mozzarella actually weeps milk when you cut into it, a sure sign of freshness.

That's how it should be... And preferably still warm from the making process...

A

Bacchus wrote:About a year ago, the head guy at Follia (Bruno, I think is his name) told me that they fly the mozzarella in from somewhere in Italy every Thursday. Maybe they might sell you some if you chat it up with him.

Bacchus,

I remembered your Follia post, that Follia flies in oil packed buffalo mozzarella which arrives on Thursdays. I've had the caprese at Follia, though it was not Thursday and, while the mozzarella was good, I was not blown away.

The best fresh mozzarella I've purchased in the Chicago area has been at Minelli Brother's grocery in Niles. Minelli's gets delivery of whole milk (cow) mozzarella almost daily from a company in New Jersey and the mozzarella is fresh, creamy and delicious. Menilli's mozzarella actually weeps milk when you cut into it, a sure sign of freshness.

Caputo's Cheese Market is another good place in the area for house-made full-cream fresh mozzarella. I've only been a couple of times, it's way out of my normal Chowhound area, but as caprese salad season is upon us I find my thoughts drifting to both Minelli's and Caputo's Bocconcini.

Enjoy,
Gary

Caputo Cheese Market
1931 N 15th Ave
Melrose Park, IL 60160
708-450-0074

Minelli Brothers
7780 N Milwaukee Ave
Niles, IL 60714
847-965-1315

Antonius wrote:Gwiv:

Thanks for the info about Caputo's and Minelli's. Is the same quality of mozzarella available at the Harlem Ave Caputo's as at the one in Melrose Park?

Antonius,

Caputo's on Harlem makes their own fresh mozzarella in-house, which I should have mentioned with Minelli and Caputo's Cheese as being quite good. Caputo's Harlem Ave and Caputo's Cheese are owned by brothers, though I don't think there's any corporate affiliation.

Enjoy,
Gary

Caputo's Food Market
2558 N Harlem Ave
Elmwood Park, IL 60707
708-453-0155

Caputo Cheese Market
1931 N 15th Ave
Melrose Park, IL 60160
708-450-0074

Minelli Brothers
7780 N Milwaukee Ave
Niles, IL 60714
847-965-1315

I was joking about the buffalo in the back (it makes such a funny image with such a trendy-looking restaurant, but:

1) Although I remember Bacchus' post also about the flown-in mozzarella di bufala,

2) Shatkin in the Reader says " The mozzarella on the caprese salad is made in-house, fresh and creamy and drizzled with an aromatic herbed olive oil."

It is not, of course, necessary that one be wrong-- Bacchus could have been right then and Shatkin could be reflecting more recent info. Offhand my feeling is that what I had sure seemed really fresh and thus homemade, but it's a long time since I was in Italy and I would not be surprised that what I now interpret as ultra-freshness is merely the results of top quality stuff having been preserved well.

More Mozzarella

Gary:

Thanks again.


Mike G:

I feel silly! I missed the joke... Anyway, if it's in-house, I really seriously doubt it's di bufala, but the best cow's milk mozzarella also has a nicely complex flavour, even with a wee touch of sourness (not as pronounced as with buffalo's milk and the overall flavour is, of course, different)...


Cathy:

Cathy2 wrote:I have watched mozerella being made on the 'magic' of television. It didn't appear too difficult. ARticles on the internet and a few cheese making books I have make it seem like the best initial foray after farmer's cheese.

I think the looks are somewhat deceiving, at least insofar as making mozzarella really well goes. Here's some anecdotal evidence:

A friend of my family in New Jersey, an immigrant from Apulia, opened a really nice salumeria -- remarkably well-stocked, spotlessly clean and organised in the fashion typical of small shops all over Western Europe, i.e., everything perfectly in its place. He got excellent bread and fresh mozzarella from local makers and all his products were always fresh and high-quality.

At some point, as the business grew, he and his family decided that they could make mozzarella too and it would be fresher for the customers and more profitable for them. Well, we would try every now and again but it only very gradually improved. Finally, after about five years, we thought it was pretty good and would buy it for convenience's sake, for there were others who still made it better. Now, maybe the family in question was somehow not gifted in cheese-making but even so, I think in Italy mozzarella making is another of those traditional activities, the expert practitioners of which are highly admired.

Like so many things in Italian cuisine, it looks all so simple and in many ways it is. But there is a lot that involves little details that are learned best through long experience -- at least that's my take on it.* With mozzarella, I think the hard part is to get the texture precisely right (and this is very much also why absolutely fresh mozzarella is so highly prized).

Water Buffalo milk seems like quite a big job to obtain. However, goat milk cannot be too difficult. Maybe it is something to discuss with the animal handlers when hitting the county and state fairs this summer.

I know water buffalo milk is particularly rich and, in addition, has its own peculiar flavour. Now, I'm no lactologist but I wonder why goat's and sheep's milk aren't used to produce pasta filata cheeses like mozzarella. It must be something about the composition, no?

A

* Recently on CH General Topics, somebody wrote in to say that he couldn't understand why people think much of Italian cuisine. To him it was all simple and easy; vastly more impressive are in his opinion Chinese and French cooking. Well, I agree, those are great cuisines and beyond that, de gustibus... But I bet the writer of that post would be quite incapable of producing a perfect plate of spaghetti all'aglio e olio, even with an extended period of practice.

Now, I'm no lactologist but I wonder why goat's and sheep's milk aren't used to produce pasta filata cheeses like mozzarella. It must be something about the composition, no?

Mozzarella has a very nice, creamy taste especially when fresh. It can be used in many ways because the flavor is not very assertive.

Whereas Goat and sheep milk have very particular flavors, so rather than quietly fit into a dish, they wave their arms and cry out "It's all about me!" (As if cheese has such a distinct personality!!!)

I just found a website with a history and an explanation how Mozzarella is produced. What interested me was the milk compositions it can be made of:

It is most often made from cow's milk; however it can be made from a combination of other milks such as cow's milk and goat's milk mixed. A small amount of buffalo-milk mozzarella is produced in the USA although very litte water buffalo milk is commercially available. Most buffalo milk mozzarella sold here is imported from Italy and South America.

It would suggest goat milk by itself would not make Mozzarella but combining it with cow's milk allows a goat-milk component. It would also modulate the strong goat taste. Someday we'll experiment and see.

Mozzarella di capra?

Cathy2 wrote:Mozzarella has a very nice, creamy taste especially when fresh. It can be used in many ways because the flavor is not very assertive.

Well, to me good quality, fresh fior di latte is perhaps not assertive, in the sense one uses the word in connexion with many goat's and sheep's milk cheeses, but it is hardly bland in the way lesser versions of it are: it should have a complex flavour, including 'milkiness', sweetness, a good salty edge and a nice little tang. Mozzarella di bufala is more intense in flavour and the sour element is a little more pronounced and the overall balance of things is therefore a little different; it's also noticeably richer than the pure cow's milk.

In this connexion, I have to say that to my mind, the restrained use of mozzarella on Neapolitan pizze (and there are some where none at all is used), has in good measure to do with the fact that the cheese does indeed have a pronounced flavour and too much of it on a pizza would take away from the primary element's flavour (the bread) as well as from the other elements of the dressing, whichever ones are being used. On the other hand, American pizza, which is so often made with both inferior cheese and inferior bread (or--God save us--pastry dough), is a dish gone haywire, with the focus switched from the bread to ever-increasing and now commonly massive quantities of inferior cheese.

Mozzarella Company site wrote:It is most often made from cow's milk; however it can be made from a combination of other milks such as cow's milk and goat's milk mixed.

Pace the claim from the Moz. Co. site I have never, ever heard of "mozzarella" being made with goat's milk; it might be an interesting product but it's perhaps noteworthy that the hills above the coastal plains in Campania, where the buffaloes are raised, abound in goats and sheep (whose milk is used extensively for cheese making), and there has apparently been no inclination there to make such a version of mozzarella.*

There are two possible sources for the milk in Italy: di bufala or di mucca. In the area where my relatives live, one of the DOC mozzarella zones in Campania, they used to produce three types: pure buffalo's milk, pure cow's milk and a mixture of the two, which was for many the preferred sort. I'm sure that now that the pure mozzarella di bufala fetches so much money with its DOC label, the mixed variety is made less and less if at all. I've had the lot of them, including the buffalo milk version fresh and still very warm inside at a small-scale maker of high repute, just minutes out of the hands of the guys who formed the balls -- it was the best cheese I've ever eaten in my life. The cow's milk version there is commonly smoked or aged (scamorza, caciocavallo).

It would suggest goat milk by itself would not make Mozzarella but combining it with cow's milk allows a goat-milk component. It would also modulate the strong goat taste. Someday we'll experiment and see.

Experimentation along these lines might well be interesting, but unless there is something about sheep's milk that lends itself less well to the pasta filata process, I think a sheep's/cow's milk mixture might be more appealing by flavour, or at least a little less jarringly different from the traditional sorts, than goat's milk. But...

* I poked around the Mozzarella Company site and found that they sell a partly goat's milk "mozzarella". Perhaps I've become a curmudgeon but I once saw the owner and founder of the Mozzarella Company on Food TV (I bleieve it was on the show of the executive chef of Gourmet magazine) and she made some very wrong claims and thus she seemed to me not all that knowledgeable. But I'll admit that I should rein in some of my curmudgeonly inclinations and maybe try her cheese. I would like to try the goat's milk stuff, but the old problem of how to get it fresh arises and I'm unlikely to find myself in Dallas in the near future.

A

Thanks for remembering, after over a year at this I beginning to feel like part of the crowd! Thanks for the other tips as well...a trip to Caputo's is clearly in my future. I did try some mozzarella from the cheese guy at the farmers' markets downtown that he says is fresh, but it seem to be a little on the dry side. I'd be curious of the opinion of others who might have tried it.

Bacchus wrote:I did try some mozzarella from the cheese guy at the farmers' markets downtown that he says is fresh, but it seem to be a little on the dry side. I'd be curious of the opinion of others who might have tried it.

Bacchus, to which farmers' market are you referring? I frequent the Saturday market at Lincoln Park HS (Armitage and Orchard), and the mozz. from the cheese guy there has always seemed moist and fresh. Also, this year he is selling some other Italian-style cheeses for the first time. Apparently, some N. Wisconsin dairy farmers bought up a closed Kraft facility, where they are making a parmesan and a few others (my ST memory is failing me right now). The parmesan is quite acceptable, if not as sharp as the real thing.

I frequent the markets at Dearborn & Adams (Tuesdays) and at the Daley Center (Thursdays). The cheese guy (I can't remember the name of his outfit) I'm referring to is tall with dark hair and has a number of cheeses that he sells out of ice chests. He's been out there for years.

I'll have to check out Dearborn-Adams - after all I work at Adams and Franklin. the description fits, but then maybe all cheese guys look the same

Boy do I hate re-enforcing the cheesehead stereotype....


1. Mozerrella is a pulled cheese (for lack of a better bifurcating description). I.e., the curds are gathered as strings and then pulled to get the stretchy elastic consistency.

2. Certain people who are lactose intolerant, can still eat sheep or goat milk, I believe it has to do with the length of the protein chains or lactose (sugar) chains. [Disclaimer: I did poorly in organic chemisty or you would be calling me Dr. and paying me to drop your pants in my office!]

3. I would conclude, that an elastic Moz could not be made from pure sheep or goat milk.

4. I still like the discussion of Moz in the Pope of Greenwich Village: "You know about making cheese? I picked up a piece of Moz from your place the other day, and let me tell you it was no Bahrgain, it was tough, tough as shoe leather."

pd

pdaane wrote:3. I would conclude, that an elastic Moz could not be made from pure sheep or goat milk.

pd:

Thanks for the info... I guess I suspected there was something about sheep's and goat's milk that wouldn't work so well for pasta filata type cheese. It's striking that in Italy and Mexico and Armenia too (so far as I know), all places where sheep and goats are not abhored in any strange ways, their milk is used for other things and never included in the "stretch" cheeses. I suppose in mixtures the texture of the 'mozzarella' might suffer a bit too --does that seem logical?

A

Again, I hate to admit it, but I have several books on cheese and cheesemaking. Unfortunately, all of this babble here today is speculation on bits and pieces of prior knowledge. Click and Clak of Car Talk fame would say I am "unencumbered by the thought process." That is a new favorite of mine.


Anywhooooo.....I shall head home and begin some research. But, yes, that seems logical.

pd

If any of you are inclined to make mutz, you may find that it is very easy to take the process one step further if you have a cold smoker. I have used both pecan and apple smoke and the result is something like provolone, but so much better. Makes awesome pizza and queso fundido.

If any of you are inclined to make mutz

Was ist das?

Is the substrate you suggesting to cold smoke mozzerella or provolone? How long are you smoking it? Just to be certain, what temperature range are we discussing? Anything else?

Thanks in advance.

After making fresh mutz (aka mozzarella), I apply a light smoke for about 10 hours in a chamber that does not exceed 95F. Then I allow it to rest in the fridge for a day or two to let the flavor ripen and even out.