As an NU undergrad I loved both the Stuffed and the Pan (Naked and the Dead; The Wound and the Bow, The Nice and the Good, The Fox and the Hedgehog, all the great dualities of the humanities).
At that time, (late 70s) Carmen's had the rep. (accurate or not, I have no idea) of making the pies in house, while Giordano's was reputed to distribute them from some central location.'
We also loved the Howard St. Edwardo's, though even then there came a point where I found the crust to white-bready and not vigorous enough to hold its own with the rest of the pie.
We also liked Gulliver's a lot.
Though Malnotti's was around, I never got to know it.
Once Carmen's began to expand, we found we didn't like it so much.
I don't think I've had a stuffed pizza in decades. Not an idealogical choice, just a gradual evolution.
Our local (Hyde Park) Edwardo's produces pretty mediocre thin crust (which our son is addicted to), and I haven't bothered to try their pan/stuffed.
As far as the dizzying ambiguities of taxonomy go, I had always understood "stuffed" to mean a double crust with sauce on the very top, while "deep dish" and "pan" signified the same or similar pies with a thick bottom crust (with or without cornmeal) made in an actual pan and then, ideally, de-panned (trepanned? No.) tableside.
Alone among my circle, my favorite pan was always the orig. Gino's East with the cornmeal as well as coarsely chopped tomatoes on top rather than a smoothly pureed sauce.

I have to add that the southside tradition (Connie's, Freddies....) of having a stuffed pizza with no sauce on top. Love it.

Stuffed pizza consists of a bottom crust, cheese, sausage (or other toppings), an additional thin layer of crust on top of the ingredients that most people don't even realize is there, and then the sauce on top. It is exactly in this order. Henceforth, the pizza is "stuffed" because the ingredients are in between the bottom crust and the thin layer of crust on top of the ingredients, but under the sauce. Classic Chicago Stuffed pizzas are Giordano's and Nancy's.

By contrast, a deep dish pizza consists of a bottom crust, cheese, sausage, and then the sauce on top, exactly in this order. The true difference between stuffed pizza and deep dish pizza is the additional thin layer of crust just underneath the sauce on a stuffed pizza ( and yes, most people don't even realize it's there ), which is not used on a deep dish pizza. Classic Chicago style deep dish places are Lou Malnati's, Pizano's ( Rudy Malnati Jr.'s place ) Pizzeria Uno/Due, Louisa's ( started by a former Due employee ), Gino's East, Pequods, and Burt's Place.

Cast my vote for Louisa's.

Not sauce, but hand crushed whole canned tomato on the deep dish.

I love the tomatoes at Lou Malnati's.

deepdish wrote:The Malnati's describe it as "Vine-ripened tomato sauce," which they travel to California each year to hand select them at their peak. I'm just lazy, so I refer to it as "sauce." Whatever it is, their tomatoes are the best around, particularly on a deep dish pizza.

Nice way to write off a California vacation. By the way, the original Malnati's in Lincolnwood is far superior to the other locations, and the take-out shops are not even close.

Mikey: I happen to live by the original Lincolnwood location and you're right- I've never had a bad pizza there. I've also been to the Naperville restaurant, the Buffalo Grove restaurant, and the carry-outs in Park Ridge, Western Springs, Gurnee, and Wheaton. Just out of curiosity, which carry-outs did you have bad experiences with ? I have a friend who did not like the Elmhurst location, but he's liked every other location.

deepdish wrote:I know everybody on this site swears by Burt's Place, but cast my vote for Lou Malnati's.

I happen to like them both very much.

=R=

deepdish wrote:Mikey: I happen to live by the original Lincolnwood location and you're right- I've never had a bad pizza there. I've also been to the Naperville restaurant, the Buffalo Grove restaurant, and the carry-outs in Park Ridge, Western Springs, Gurnee, and Wheaton. Just out of curiosity, which carry-outs did you have bad experiences with ? I have a friend who did not like the Elmhurst location, but he's liked every other location.

I go so far back with Lou. I started going to the Lincolnwood spot when it first opened. Also lived very close to the original carry out location in Wilmette. It was pizza and pasta if memory serves. I then moved to the city and ordered out from the Wells st location. When I moved to Hinsdale I ordered from Willow Springs.
I always thought there was not enough toppings and the crust would turn out flat, especially the butter crust. It might just be that I don't like carry out pizza, I prefer to eat it at the restaurant. Maybe they cut corners, I don't know for sure.
The older locations are better, my second choice would be the Elk Grove eat in Lou's. Maybe it's the older, well seasoned pans and old oven, or the old cooks.

Mikey:

I know this may seem like a waste of time, but you really should contact Lou Malnati's Corportate office via e-mail. Tell them everything you think they need to improve on. Believe it or not, they ( i.e. Mark and Rick Malnati ) take any complaints they receive very seriously, and they will work to improve whatever suggestions you make. Trust me on this.

Lou Malnati's still makes some of the best deep dish pizza in Chicago, almost as good as Louisa's in Crestwood ( started by the late Louisa De Genero, a former Due waitress and cook for over two decades ). Ike Sewell and Ric Riccardo were the owners of the original place then known as "The Pizzeria" back in 1943, before becoming Pizzeria Riccardo, and then finally Pizzeria Uno when Pizzeria Due was established down the block; but, the brains behind that recipe was their bartender/manager Rudy Malnati, Sr. at Pizzeria Uno, and his son, Lou Malnati, over at Pizzeria Due. The Malnati's ran Uno's/Due for over 20 years and both Mark and Rick Malnati are still very proud of their pizza heritage. Make your complaints known to their corporate office. They will listen. They have 31 family owned and operated locations. Unlike Pizzeria Uno and Gino's East, the Malnati's have not franchised any of their locations and they never will.

If there are any quality issues, then they definitely need to be addressed. The pizza should be the same at every location.

I agree with you that Lou Malnati's is the best, especially after having a particularly clumsy rendition at Burt's recently.
I was just saying that like all mini chains, the original location is best. I like that it is better than a takeout storefront. The universe is in harmony.

Mikey,

This is off-topic but I noticed your location as Hinsdale. Have you ever made the short trek over to Villa Nova Pizza on Pershing just east of Harlem in Stickney ? Yes, Vito and Nick's makes a great Chicago style thin crust cut into squares, but everyone I ever knew from the Midway airport area, Cicero, Berwyn, Lyons, Brookfield, Riverside, etc. has always swore by Villa Nova. And they are right. This is the true powerhouse on the South Side/South Suburbs. Their homemade Italian sausage is the best sausage I've ever had on a thin crust pizza. The only place that even comes close to this kind of thin crust perfection is the legendary Pat's on Lincoln Ave. on the North Side.

Relatedly, every person I've ever taken to Villa Nova over the years has always walked out saying "that was the best Chicago style thin crust pizza they ever had." They have been in the same location for over 50 years and, depending on your view of Americana, their former owner is a legend in his own right- right or wrong. Check out Daniel Zemans recent review of Villa Nova on the foodie site "slice serious eats." Great pictures, too. Also, while you're on the slice serious eats site, check out the United States of Pizza Chicago edition. Villa Nova, along with the legendary Pat's, and Vito and Nick's, are listed as the 3 examples of classic Chicago Style thin crust, cut into squares, with homemade Italian sausage.


The sausage at Villa Nova is truly the best.

I did see your mention of Villa Nova on the other thread and I will have to get over there and try a sausage pizza. It sounds great, thanks for the heads up.

For the record, why isn't the original Lou Malnati's in Lincolnwood a Great Neighborhood Restaurant ? They have been in the same location since 1971, and there are entire generations of neighborhood people from Lincolnwood, Chicago, and beyond that have been eating there from the very beginning. Even the people who drink at the bar are locals, and more than a few of the staff have worked there for quite some time.

Similarly, Mark and Rick Malnati have successfully carried on their family legacy from their father, Lou Malnati ( who managed Pizzeria Due ) and their grandfather, Rudy Malnati, Sr. ( who managed Pizzeria Uno ). Many people believe that Rudy Malnati Sr. definitely had a hand in the original recipe created at Uno's, along with owners Ike Sewell and Ric Riccardo. We're talking Chicago pizza royalty here. And unlike Pizzeria Uno and Gino's East, the Malnati's will never franchise out any of their restaurants. All of their locations are still family owned and operated.

Yes, I'm pretty new to this site, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but why shouldn't they be considered for a Great Neighborhood Restaurant Award ? I know there are a lot of people on this site who swear by Burt's Place and other deep dish establishments, but the vast majority of people I've known all my life swear by Lou Malnati's. In the grand sceme of things, I'm not a food expert by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just an everyday guy who's lucky to be alive and have a city job. I just feel that it's high time for them to be recognized for their unmatched contributions to the Chicago pizza scene.

It's not a GNR because the forum doesn't really seem to care much about it. GNRs are based on the opinion and chatter of the forum, plus other random stuff, not historical value of the restaurant or overall chicago food community love.

If suddenly over the next few months a couple dozen people started talking about how mindblowing the original Lou's was, it'd probably get nominated+accepted in the next round.

Gleam,

My gut feeling already tells me that the original Lou Malnati's will never be a GNR. It my opinion, it should be. Like you said, a GNR nomination has nothing to do with "overall Chicago food community love." That said, if it did, Lou Malnati's would have been nominated a long time ago. They are a legend here, and for good reason- their deep dish pizza is world class. It is a Chicago classic, and it will always stand the test of time, even long after other newer and trendier places have come and gone.

Good Eating To All,

deepdish

deepdish wrote:Gleam,

My gut feeling already tells me that the original Lou Malnati's will never be a GNR. It my opinion, it should be. Like you said, a GNR nomination has nothing to do with "overall Chicago food community love." That said, if it did, Lou Malnati's would have been nominated a long time ago.

There is nothing stopping you from nominating it next time around, if you feel it deserves GNR status.

Thank you, stevez. I'll probably leave a GNR nomination for Lou Malnati's to the people who have been on this board for a long time, rather than some newbie like myself. I just wanted to point out that Lou Malnati's will always be the gold standard for deep dish here in Chicago, even after many other newer and trendier pizza places have come and gone. And I'm not taking anything away from all the people who enjoy other pizza places. I'm just saying that there are a lot of people who have grown up on this deep dish classic since 1971, and who still love Lou Malnati's. Maybe we just aren't as vocal on LTHFORUM.com.

deepdish wrote:Thank you, stevez. I'll probably leave a GNR nomination for Lou Malnati's to the people who have been on this board for a long time, rather than some newbie like myself.

Why? Everyone is entitled to nominate someplace. If you feel Lou Malnati's fits the criteria to be a GNR, nominate it. Don't let "newbie" status get in the way. There's no reason to.

And to those of you who are wondering, the answer is NO- I'm not a Lou Malnati's employee, nor have I ever been. That said, their corporate office has always been very accommodating and prompt ( very prompt ) the few times in my life where I've had to make a complaint or a suggestion. That's it.

Other than that, I still think their deepdish pizza is the best around, and part of their success may have something to do with the fact that they still listen to their customers.

stevez wrote:

deepdish wrote:Thank you, stevez. I'll probably leave a GNR nomination for Lou Malnati's to the people who have been on this board for a long time, rather than some newbie like myself.

Why? Everyone is entitled to nominate someplace. If you feel Lou Malnati's fits the criteria to be a GNR, nominate it. Don't let "newbie" status get in the way. There's no reason to.

I agree. If you love it, you should nominate it.

=R=